mr_lee_ Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Hurray, I finally completed my first unit of Black Legion for my Chaos Force. 12 Marines all painted in the gold, silver and red of the legion. I'll be honest with you all, I am not the best painter, I'm a gaming standard painter. For a long time painting has been the only thing putting me off seriously gaming and now I have a unit complete I feel much better, and despite the fact they may be painted on an average level, they are my effort n thats what matters. My question to you - What do you consider to be 'Gaming Standard' and are you ashamed of any of the paint jobs in your army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rymeer Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 My whole DIY chapter army is only painted to 'tabletop' standard. I play it as often as I can, and people seem to like it. Rymeer Crusading Lions pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Caliban Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 post your models and you will get replies. There are plentty of elaborate discussions on gaming and display standard minis. I would post them but I am simply too lazy. Do a searchy. Well done on the complete unit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakkra Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I consider gaming standard as having a painted army that looks like the person took some effort to do. Not everything has to be done meticulously, as I understand some players (myself included) aren't good at painting, or maybe they don't enjoy that particular aspect of the hobby. I won't refuse to play someone just because their paint job isn't crisp enough, or even if their army isn't fully painted (the gaming group at my local store is pretty laid back about painting despite the fact there are some great painters). Most people won't get on you so long as your army is painted and it looks like you actually put some effort into it. They may offer tips and suggestions for future models, but rarely, if ever, something negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badaab Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Gaming standard for me is as follows: -An army that I would be proud to play with. -A fully painted army. As you can imagine, I don't play much, as it takes me awhile (4-6 hours average) to paint a Tactical Squad member, and pleasing myself is the hardest task. -Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_lee_ Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Just taken a load of pictures and I'm going to upload them once my Lemon Meringue Pie has been eaten. I've got to blackline these miniatures with a fineliner pen (I always thought it was a logic thing to do on black) and their Rhino is going to be painted tomorrow. I feel quite pleased and am looking forward to converting some terminators in the next fortnight. Edit: It takes approx 45 mins for me to paint a marine to the standard I'm happy at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Chaplain Astador Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 For me Gaming Quality, as already said, is for the most part painted completely and based. I know I am not able to speak because as of right now, my army is not to that quality, it is about 75% that quality, the motorpool and the bases are not done and some of the models I feel I need to do much touching up on. I am a decent gamer, but for me painting and converting is the best part of the hobby. Just pour your heart into your models and even if they aren't well painted you can have pride in the fact that you put your heart into it. When someone gives you critizism take it with an open mind, even if the person is a worse painter than you are. Practice makes perfect, and it really shows in many of the painters around here who have been here along time. I remember back before I joined the B&C, I still have models from back then, I had been playing almost 6 years before, and in the 3 years I have been here I have improved so much more than in the 6 years before that. This will be year 11 in the hobby for me, I just turned 16 a week ago and have so much more to learn. I am sure any golden demon or slayer sword winners will back me when I say that no matter how good you are or how long you've been doing this, that there is always something new to learn, some new technique to try, some new ideas to play with, the hobby continuesly evolves because of people who aren't afraid to be critizised by their peers. I know I might sound older than I am, but I am just throwing my opinion out there. I'm not the best painter, and sometimes I drop my quality down to get the model done, a few of my models the bases are better than the model itself. But I always pour my heart into the model. Even the few commissions I am doing, many of the clients come back for more stuff. I am currently painting 4 commission armies of 1000 pts. each along with my own personal armies. When I get bored with one army, I do some work on the other, I balance it all out and it comes out even at the end of the day. Just keep putting yourself out there, and learn from everyone else and your own mistakes. None of us our perfect, and we don't try to be. Don't be afraid to post your models and don't be afraid to give critism on anyone elses models, even if they are better than yours or mine or anyones, just always voice your opinion, and develope your style. Warhammer is an art. Hope I inspired some people here and gave yall a good idea of how I view the hobby and everything. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure I made some points that everyone can agree with though. Cheers, MCA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Q- Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Most important to enjoying the hobby is to not start threads like this. =) Be happy with your own personal answer and never be ashamed of your work. It's very easy to fall into the fear that your painting can't compare to what you see here. We're blessed by the Emperor to have Golden Demon and Slayer Sword winners show off their stuff and offer advice on a regular basis. Even many of those that haven't gotten that GW stamp can paint to an amazing standard. If you enjoy painting, then seek and take the advice. Grow your painting. If you don't, then be happy with what you're making and maximize the rest of the hobby. Come here to look at the pretty pictures and encourage our Brothers. As much as we here in PC&A love painting, it's not worth letting it become the dread of the hobby for anyone. I'm always more impressed to see an unprofessional paint job on a full army than I am to see people playing with bare metal and plastic. You might feel that way too now, however if you start feeling ashamed of not meeting up to others' standards then you might not even bother keeping up with a fully painted army or worse you might allow that to bring the hobby to a halt for you. Right now the worst thing that could happen to you is for people to tell you your work is good. :D ...because that's always followed with "now just do this, this, and this" Those extra steps could be enough to set you back on the path of fear and be just as dangerous as thinking your stuff is bad. So even if you work on improving your painting, keep cranking out the squads at a speed level you're comfortable with while leaving new techniques and 'practice' for character models or cool GW releases for armies you're not playing. Congratulations on completing a full squad and overcoming your worry about standards. Keep it going it's an awesome accomplishment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_lee_ Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Here's some pictures of my completed miniatures so far. I actually enjoy converting plastics a lot more than I enjoy http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/Army1.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/Army2.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/Army3.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/Army4.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/Army5.jpg -Q- ; I started this thread because I was wondering if I was the only one who felt like this. Sometimes places like here can be daunting and little gamers can feel like they have something they need to live upto. If you look through the 'Post your Commander' - some people say they're embarrased to post their pictures. I was quite ashamed by the qualiy of my orks but they still kicked butt on any occasion. I wanted to try and raise my personal best a bit with my Black Legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boltman Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Ah, gaming standard. To me, that's whatever time you could/chose to spend on coloring your miniatures for gaming. Some enjoy the game and dread the painting aspect of the hobby. Some like me got enrolled in the hobby by the hobby part, and ended up enjoying the gaming aspect (too much for my own painting good). I'm at a constant struggle between painting the model nice to my own gaming standard, or going all the way because this particular miniature is inspiring. But if I do spend 25 hours on it, I'll never get this army done in time for the next, then the next... Each different motives, but I think that everyone can feel pride in gaming with models they painted themselves, no matter teh result. To me gaming standard is not a measure of painting quality, but a measure of effort versus what you can do, what time you could spend. Models I'll want to look particularily impressive would be around 30 hours, so to me a gaming model would be about 3-6 hours. A friend of mine loves gaming but has little time to paint with wife, 2 kids, etc, so his gaming standard is more liek 30 mins per model, and results aren'T the same of course, but the guy made the legitimate effort to have painted models to play with, and that's what matters to me. Gaming standard is a measure of effort, not your very best piece, you weren't trying to expand your skills tremendously, just applying what you've learned to produce models that will addto the gaming experience of both players, compared to unpainted models. And yes, some painted models could be better off unpainted, but those clearly were not painted with any effort or dedication. Gaming models are suggestive, and someone's gaming can be someone else's best attempt; Remember to have fun, learn a little, and enjoy the pride and additionnal fun you'll have gaming with models that you painted yourself. Makes every game more personnal, more enticing. Boltman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarbonCopy Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 That ... was very, very well said Boltman. It is really nice that a GD winner can humbly illustrate to everyone else that a "great paint job" is absolutely relative to each individual modeler/painter. Now if I can just 1) get some time (have not painted since November). 2) stop beating up on myself for my own percieved level of gaming standard for my own work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotsa_terminators Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I'm by no means a great painter, in fact i dont even bother with highlighting that much. I paint my models one at a time, and to the point that I like how they look. I use gloss black on my Templars, which most Templar players would find horrible, but I like it, it looks natural to me. To me, gaming standard should be an Army that looks semi-realistic, and that has at least ya know, 3 colors :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retlaw83 Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 My opinion on tabletop standard is three or more colors on a model, more or less where I want the color to go. Only a couple of my models are painted particularly well; I'm happy if an army looks good as a group, as that's how they appear in games against people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane30 Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 To answer your first question, I consider gaming standard a model that time has been invested in the painting. As long as you have given the model thought and have worked to the best of your abilities it's worthy of the tabletop. To answer your second question, every model I've ever laid a brush to. -Your Randomly Numbered Psychotic Friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluracan Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 mr lee, nothing wrong with your minis at all. I'd say that they are a very good gaming standard and I agree that if YOU are comfortable playing with them, then they are an acceptable gaming standard and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. For myself, I am comfortable with my gaming standard painting. I use a very limited paint palette and add shadows with ink. for speed. I don't highlight my troops, as for me it's all about speed; base colour, shadow, a few details and some decals. production line style http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/cluracan_photos/TacSquadAlpha.jpg This works for me as it gives an overall impression of a decently painted army, without putting hours of work on each figure. Of course my characters get a more thorough paint job, to make them stand out. I prefer not to play against unpainted/half painted armies if I can, because I find it difficult to pick out the key characters/figures in among a mass of unpainted minis, but having said that I would never refuse to play anyone with an unpainted army, but I would certainly try to encourage them to get their paintbrushes out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belchuil Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 'Gaming' or 'Tabletop' standard for me should be a level of finish where the unit/army looks good as a whole, but which doesn't have to look stellar on close inispection. Personally i would expect a little more work on HQs, sergeants/champions though. But, although it may save you time, nothing beats fielding a smashing looking army you have put some decent work into. Yad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_lee_ Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 For myself, I am comfortable with my gaming standard painting. I use a very limited paint palette and add shadows with ink. for speed. I don't highlight my troops, as for me it's all about speed; base colour, shadow, a few details and some decals. production line style Thats pretty much summed up how I do mine. I'm just finishing painting the Rhino now :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluracan Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Thats pretty much summed up how I do mine. I'm just finishing painting the Rhino now :D Excellent! will we be seeing a picture? Here is one of mine.... http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/cluracan_photos/Rhino2.jpg I know a lot of people like to put weather and battle damage on their vehicles and at some point in the near future I will highlight and weather this one, but my first priority was to paint up an army so that I could play...the fancy painting can come later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokersminis Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 http://jokersminiatures.com/Legio/Ordo/shsquadshot.jpg I would consider this squad gaming standard. They have some freehand touches, like the Spads, but the Black isn't even highlighted and I do not consider them finished. My opponants like them and they look pretty good on a table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Caliban Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 Boltman all I can say is stop posting and start painting :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion in the Stars Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 [surest way to get boltman's comment - use the phrase 'gaming standard'] BTW, congrats on the Daemon for your Slaneeshi Termies, Boltman. FWIW, I think they look better than the Deathwing termies that took the Silver. While Boltman said it best, I'll add that much of my stuff I paint assembly-line style. It lets me get through the 40-60 marines I want to have in an army in a reasonable amount of time. I've also spent 60ish hours painting 7 grey knight termies. One of my armies looks rather good at arm's reach, or across the table from an opponent, but I spent about 2 hours painting all 36 fire warriors in desert camo. That's total, not each mini. They don't look real good up close, but they have 6 colors on them, with inked shadows. My Dark Angels are getting redone, as I can't seem to have a consistent DA green color. (Pet Peeve. An army needs to look coherent. A 'crusade' army, where there are several different chapters present in the force on the table, still needs something to tie it together (like the crusade badge) In the mean time, I've found that it helps to have a reward, or a break from your normal painting scheme, especially when you assembly-line paint minis. I recently got into Flames of War, and it's been ... interesting painting 90+ infantrymen, plus tanks, trucks, etc to a standard I'm happy with. If you were to look at my painting desk, you'd see both Cygnar and Khador pieces, some FoW Italians, Dark Angels, and a (second) Tau Crisis horde. the Cygnar and Tau are in similar colors (both are a strong blue), and the DA and Khador troops are in similar colors (a very dark green). I've decided to make a new marine army, where I'll never have to paint more than 21 marines in the same color scheme. The break in colors is almost as important as a study break in school. The best answer, to me, is to paint them to look how you want them to. My desert Tau get a good number of complements, while I'm not real happy with them (although that has more to do with the mechanics of the camo I did). My warmachine figs have a lot more time spent per mini, and look pretty good on the field. I also can spend more time per piece with warmachine, since my entire army is 35 models. I guess what I'm trying to say is that a gaming standard is how much time you want to spend on the models, and still get them finished for (whatever your deadline is). Do you like how your models look? Saying 'I could have done X better' is OK. My question back is 'Could you have still finished the army in time if you had done X?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulcatcher Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Gaming models are suggestive, and someone's gaming can be someone else's best attempt; Remember to have fun, learn a little, and enjoy the pride and additionnal fun you'll have gaming with models that you painted yourself. Makes every game more personnal, more enticing. You know that is exactly what I thought both times I played against Boltman. As we all know most of his models are simply amazing. I found it funny that he spend more time on Magmatrax then I had spend on my entire army. However I have since stripped my entire army, and am slowly repainting it to what I feel is a tabletop standard for me. Will I evey win a GD? No. Will I have a cohearent force that will look good and play well. Yes, well I hope it will play well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_lee_ Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 Haha, some irony for you. I have been talking about Gaming Standard but I have an interview for work with GW and need some better painted models for the interview. I have chosen a couple of my Orks and my brand spanking new Chaos Dread. Have a pic; http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/whd1.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/whd2.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/whd3.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/whd4.jpg And the Rhino http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/whd5.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/whd6.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/whd7.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/whd8.jpg http://www.leepratt.net/chaos/whd9.jpg Thanks for any C&C etc etc. They're not much at the moment but I'm hoping the dreadnought becomes my centrepiece :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurgleThing Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 http://jokersminiatures.com/Legio/Ordo/shsquadshot.jpg If that is what you consider un-finished. My models would be unpainted. I always find if i play with something im not happy with i NEVER seem to go back and finish it. No matter how hard i try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maleficum Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 edit: <<<Lot's of mistakes removed>>> Here goes... I hope it works, not to computersavvy, not to practical with images. My recently painted Greater Daemon of Slaneesh, gaming standard for me. And the best of my ability. http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p70701061se.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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