The AM, Mars, the Void Dragon, and Necrons

[Aidoneus]

All four of the remaining C'tan ate other C'tan. In fact, many of the dead C'tan ate other C'tan before being, themselves, eaten. The Deceiver started it by tricking the Nightbringer into eating other C'tan. The Nightbringer ate more than any other single C'tan. The Outsider went crazy from eating C'tan. The Deceiver, because it is relatively weak, ate fewer C'tan than any of the other three remaining C'tan.

 

I think that's all that can be said about C'tan eating each other.

[Octavulg]

Actually, you left out that they taste like chicken.

 

Except the Deceiver. He tastes like chocoalte. Hence his caution.

[Brother Dienekes]

If there were 4 ctan that survived the virus deployed by the old ones, where does the ctan that Ferrus Manus killed fit in?

 

Also, I doubt the emperor would have conflicted that faith of the AM at the time of the great crusade, he needed the Am to help him get the crusade under way.

[Mechanicus]

If there were 4 ctan that survived the virus deployed by the old ones, where does the ctan that Ferrus Manus killed fit in?

We don't even know if it was a C'tan, or if he was fighting it for three days (legends aren't always accurate even in 40k you know). It could have been a Necron construct, perhaps that we haven't seen before.

[Brother Dienekes]

True,

 

But what about the ctan phase weapons used by callidus assassins... Are they connected in any way to the necrons?

[Mechanicus]

But what about the ctan phase weapons used by callidus assassins... Are they connected in any way to the necrons?

Probably the same material. Possibly created for use by an as-yet unknown Necron warrior type or forged like any other blade by the Mechanicus (like in Nightbringer with the blades there).

[Captain Idaho]

If there were 4 ctan that survived the virus deployed by the old ones, where does the ctan that Ferrus Manus killed fit in?

We don't even know if it was a C'tan, or if he was fighting it for three days (legends aren't always accurate even in 40k you know). It could have been a Necron construct, perhaps that we haven't seen before.

 

agreed. in fact if we take a look at our Necron fluff, it clearly states that the Deceiver was the first to awaken, therefore the creature Ferrus Manus killed could not have been a Ct'an. in fact, it may not even be a Necron (though likely was) as it was never stated as such.

 

Probably the same material. Possibly created for use by an as-yet unknown Necron warrior type or forged like any other blade by the Mechanicus (like in Nightbringer with the blades there).

 

Codex Necrons has the answer. in short, the bodies the C'tan use as avatar are made from the same metal/technology as the Necron Ships. the phase blade is also made from this material. in all likely hood, its a blade fashioned from a Necron recovered hunk of metal. evidence of the substance of the blade is a short story where the Deceiver was stabbed by a C'tan phase blade, then absorbed it. plus the C'tan special rules repeat this information (if a Necron is hit by a C'tan Phase blade the attacker is disarmed)

[kyng72]

I figure that The Void Dragon has corrupted the unknowing AM and that all machines built by them will eventually rebel against humanity, as they are built with knowledge given them by The Void Dragon/Machine God and then all the machines will converge on Mars and become the body of The Void Dragon/Machine God, imagine somthing on the size of planetary scale for it's body.

[Tokunator]

C'Tan phase swords were discovered on a world off the gates of Varl, wherever that is. Says so in the very first description of the weapon, way back in second edition. If you read the Necron designer notes in third edition, the designers linked that name with the Necrons and the C'Tan to give them a bit of extra mystique and to show how they influenced the Imperium even back then. The rules about phaseswords interacting with C'Tans were added as a nice fluff rule.

 

They mimic Necron weapons like warscythes or mechanism like the wraiths or the phaseshifters, so there is definitely a link there.

[Night]

Personaly I don't think that the Necrons are a big thread to the galaxy, I even go so far to say they are the weakest thread to the Galaxy, or let's say second weakest, there are also the Dark Eldar. I come to that conclusion because the Necron fluff is absolutly unrealistic. When the Necrons started the war against the old ones they where reduced to one planet only and even if this planet was huge or lets say they had a planet systhem even if all the planets there were huge and lets say 50 billion creatures lived there (todays earth has about 8 billion or so, I'm not quite sure) that would mean that there would be nearly no Necrons in the galaxy (if we compare it to the other races) it is just ridiculous. They can do nothing with a puny force like that, not to mantion that this few billions are divided to 4 C'tan that fight each other. And I'm quit sure that the Necrons had only one Planet full of there kind so they have even less Necron Warriors. Also lets say there where a billion C'tan back there, even that, assuming that the Nightbringer is the second mightiest of them, there stats would be like T6 or 7, for a race like the Old Ones it would be the easiest thing in the universe to just wipe out such a puny force of metal dudes and a bunch of Wraithlord statlike beings. That they lost feels just not right.

 

But let's say the Necrons managed it to somehow managed it to beat the old ones up and be super badass and went into stasis and all that, that would mean the Necrons of today would have 50 billion Warriors and 4 C'tan, thats nothing. If the Empire hadn't something better to do they just would go like "what do you want from us" and whipe them out. Same goes for Tau, which is by the was even stated in there fluff and I think they have more Warriors that the current Necrons and partially better weapons.

 

Don't misunderstand me Necron players out there, I like your race but your fluff is so absolutly bad written...

 

To come to the real cause, I think maybe part of the AM would go for the Void Dragon, but I think if they would, they would only go for him on Mars because from what I know the dragon guys only operate on Mars and it's only a small group. Sure, it would be hell of a chaos but I think it would not last long. Also the AM knows of the C'tan at least they know that they exist, that they are xenos and that they are commanding a bunch of robot xenos skelletons. They know evrything they need to know about them. They are enemys of the empire and they are aliens, so they must be purged and thats the reason why the dragondudes have so little power at the AM and need to hide themselves, cause they would be killed if they say "we worship a giant xenos metal thing but hey, it's metal so we think it's the machine god".

 

I don't want to hurt someboady or to destroy all that cool conversation but I just think the Necrons and the C'tan are much to overrated by many of you. Just think a little logic about it, I know, 40k is not the place of logic, but just this one time.

 

Also I have to say that Ferrus, his story and his living metal hands where invented long before even someone of gw even had the first idea that they would some day invent a race called Necrons that would have living metal. What I want to say is, its just coincidence, or they had the idea of the living metal from the story of Ferrus, but originally his hands had nothing to do with the Necrons, because they had not even thinked of the race back than.

 

Same goes for the C'tan phase sword which is used by the Callidus. What I know is that way back in 2nd edition C'tan was a planet which was known to the emire and the Eldar and it was the only Planet where the materials for the sword could be found. So it's also just coincidence. Maybe they liked the name C'tan and the idea of the phase swords and made a race of the first and a weapon concept of the second while they thought about a new race.

 

*pants* now I'll better stop, not to upset someboady :D

Oh and by the way, please excuse my bad english, it's not my motherstongue

 

Night Lord

[Brother Dienekes]

Okay here's thought to throw-in for you guys to rip apart.

 

I've read theories about the Ctan and Necrons slowing making their way towards Mars to awaken the Void Dragon (if it is him) but lets just consider for a moment:

 

If this were right, why isnt the dragon making more of an effort to regroup with the other ctan? Instead of helping the AM build starships, weapons, tanks and armour.

 

Would it be unfeasable to imagine the dragon somewhat defecting and turning against the other ctan? Using humans to build a force capable of destroying his fellow ctan and their undying minions...? Obviously the emperor comes along and puts off the dragons plan for ten thousand years, but the idea so far has not been discussed.

 

I'm happy to be corrected, so fire away chaps

[Captain Idaho]

When the Necrons started the war against the old ones they where reduced to one planet only and even if this planet was huge or lets say they had a planet systhem even if all the planets there were huge and lets say 50 billion creatures lived there (todays earth has about 8 billion or so, I'm not quite sure) that would mean that there would be nearly no Necrons in the galaxy (if we compare it to the other races) it is just ridiculous.

 

no no no. where does it say they were reduced to a single planet? it says in codex Necrons that they were pushed back to the corners of the galaxy initially, but that was before the C'tan were discovered. their numbers are quoted as "legion" and there are millions of Necrons still in stasis. as Necrons can travel the galaxy almost instantly, that is a serious fighting force.

 

Also lets say there where a billion C'tan back there, even that, assuming that the Nightbringer is the second mightiest of them, there stats would be like T6 or 7, for a race like the Old Ones it would be the easiest thing in the universe to just wipe out such a puny force of metal dudes and a bunch of Wraithlord statlike beings. That they lost feels just not right.

 

it never says which of the C'tan is the mightiest. people assume its the Dragon because of the name, but all fluff indicates the NB is as he was the one which consumed the most of his fellow C'tan. dont take 40K stats too seriously. in the fluff, a marine can take dozens of guardsmen and win.

 

But let's say the Necrons managed it to somehow managed it to beat the old ones up and be super badass and went into stasis and all that, that would mean the Necrons of today would have 50 billion Warriors and 4 C'tan, thats nothing.

 

the necrons were beating the Old ones when the "plague" struck. its all in the Codex. as for numbers, look to Battle Fleet Gothic and Codex Necrons, they show that the Necrons ships can travel the Galaxy in an instant, therefore limited numbers are nullified by the ability to strike where they please.

 

Don't misunderstand me Necron players out there, I like your race but your fluff is so absolutly bad written...

 

now that is another issue. whether it is bad or not doesnt come into it, the "facts" still indicate that they are the daddies of the universe.

 

I don't want to hurt someboady or to destroy all that cool conversation but I just think the Necrons and the C'tan are much to overrated by many of you. Just think a little logic about it, I know, 40k is not the place of logic, but just this one time.

 

your entitled to your opinion, of course. to many players, Necrons feel forced into the fiction. but hey, they are a part of it now and we must accept that. unless something unusual happens the Necrons will win, but we all know that the Emperor will return/primarchs will return to save the day like any good story...

 

If this were right, why isnt the dragon making more of an effort to regroup with the other ctan? Instead of helping the AM build starships, weapons, tanks and armour.

 

Would it be unfeasable to imagine the dragon somewhat defecting and turning against the other ctan? Using humans to build a force capable of destroying his fellow ctan and their undying minions...? Obviously the emperor comes along and puts off the dragons plan for ten thousand years, but the idea so far has not been discussed.

 

I'm happy to be corrected, so fire away chaps

 

thing is, is he helping? hes asleep isnt he? if hes even there? if he is on Mars, he is not in direct contact with the AM as they consider him a heresy (see Codex Necrons)

 

Would it be unfeasable to imagine the dragon somewhat defecting and turning against the other ctan? Using humans to build a force capable of destroying his fellow ctan and their undying minions...?

 

now that is interesting! it makes perfect sense, though at present he is still "asleep" (not neccessary on Mars either) so its doubtful at present. but i can seriously understand the C'tan using any race they feel like to their own ends, so the AM could be very instrumental one day. still speculation at the moment though, but i like your train of thought, as the C'tan are selfish beings and dont work together well.

[Brother Dienekes]

now that is interesting! it makes perfect sense, though at present he is still "asleep" (not neccessary on Mars either) so its doubtful at present. but i can seriously understand the C'tan using any race they feel like to their own ends, so the AM could be very instrumental one day. still speculation at the moment though, but i like your train of thought, as the C'tan are selfish beings and dont work together well.

 

My thoughts exactly,

 

It doesnt seem right at all that the ctan would ~share~ conquest as from what Ive heard they are selfish. Maybe the AM are unwilling puppets now or they are gently being groomed for when the dragon awakens they will side with it (that is, as you say, ~if~ the dragon is on mars).

[Wrath]

Who's to say that the Void Dragon isn't "talking in his sleep," "dreaming," or some other such manner of influencing the AdMech while still asleep (provided he actually is on Mars). I really like the idea that he is preparing the Imperium, or rather the AdMech, to face down his rival Star Gods, seeing them as a bigger threat than the Imperium itself. After they're gone he'll have plenty of time to turn the AdMech against the rest of the Imperium, or better yet corrupt the entire human race using the AdMech as his prophets.

 

I have to wonder too if they're love for bionics isn't leading them down the same road that the Necrons themselves walked all those millenia ago, rejecting their physical bodies in favor of machines.

[Divergent Reality]

Who's to say that the Void Dragon isn't "talking in his sleep," "dreaming," or some other such manner of influencing the AdMech while still asleep (provided he actually is on Mars). I really like the idea that he is preparing the Imperium, or rather the AdMech, to face down his rival Star Gods, seeing them as a bigger threat than the Imperium itself. After they're gone he'll have plenty of time to turn the AdMech against the rest of the Imperium, or better yet corrupt the entire human race using the AdMech as his prophets.

 

I have to wonder too if they're love for bionics isn't leading them down the same road that the Necrons themselves walked all those millenia ago, rejecting their physical bodies in favor of machines.

 

if on mars, the dragon may have learned from the mistakes from the creation of the original necrons, a wholesale conversion from flesh to metal left problems when it came to autonomy of forces.

 

with slow conversion and non-complete conversions it allows the sentience to remain.

 

so their still free minds can act independently of any overlords or c'tan.

[da smas]

But what if the void dragon is not there ( on mars) wiilingly. he could be kept there against his will due to some techno sorceries. After that the mechanicus began worshiping him. as with most fluff in 40k there are many "ifs" and "buts".

[Black Bear]

But what if the void dragon is not there ( on mars) wiilingly. he could be kept there against his will due to some techno sorceries. After that the mechanicus began worshiping him. as with most fluff in 40k there are many "ifs" and "buts".

 

If that is the case I'm sure he could find some cult or sub-set of the techpriest with enough of a heretical divergence that he could trick/persuade them to release him in exchange for his knowledge/power. It might take him a while, but eventually he would find someone who would do it. Humans are stupid like that. History says so. ^_^

 

And if he is unable to communicate, someone will eventually go a little too far trying to find information and either "release" him a little to where he can begin communicating or "brain dive" too far and have their personality/mind taken over by him. After all humans are stupid like that. History says so. :)

[Grandmaster Cassius]

Hmm, I recognise this topic from ancient times, Necorntyr pointed it out to me when he was having his big flap back on page 10 or 11, didn't really think it'd still be active...

 

If that is the case I'm sure he could find some cult or sub-set of the techpriest with enough of a heretical divergence that he could trick/persuade them to release him in exchange for his knowledge/power. It might take him a while, but eventually he would find someone who would do it. Humans are stupid like that. History says so.

 

And if he is unable to communicate, someone will eventually go a little too far trying to find information and either "release" him a little to where he can begin communicating or "brain dive" too far and have their personality/mind taken over by him. After all humans are stupid like that. History says so.

 

C'tan have shown that they can do that, the Deciever in fact, controls several cults on Mars. It is highly likely that the Dragon has attempted to gain influence over some of the AM. I believe the only reason he is on Mars is becasue he hasn't fully healed yet, he needs a lot of time to recover and even then he probably wouldn't want to risk exposing himself to danger.

[CaptainLaevitacus]

My theory on this is that if the dragon is to reappear the world of 40k as we know it will change for better or for worse.

 

It will first start with all of the imperium fearing all of their technology because it was all invented by the mechanicus, the inquisition will hunt down every last single AM won't matter where their loyalties lie you worship a false god knowingly or not you still worshipped it and for that they are heretics.

 

The space marines will kill their techmarines instantly, and until such time as some radical human hops onto a bike, gets in a tank and turns the key or otherwise realizes that we don't have to bless our guns for them to work no one in the imperium will be able to do much. It will be a very dark time for awhile but the after math will make them all realize that none of this stuff needs to be blessed and or prayed to some god for. Everyone in the Imperium will be that much stronger at the end, that is of course if earth survives the rise of the dragon.

 

 

Hah take that conspiracy I am insane...in your face ....me and this outsider should party.

[Ishamael]

Alright, so I totally registered to this forum to get into this discussion. I've been talking about Necron conspiracy theories with my friends for quite some time. I read the first couple pages and I think there have been a lot of ideas put out there. So please humour me as I try to express my theories.

 

First, some things worth stating:

1) The Void Dragon is the most powerful C'tan.

- This is primarily because of the fact that back during the C'tan's war against the Ancients, the Eldar and the Old Ones used the Blackstone Fortresses that they created to destroy the C'tan. As someone on the board has said, the warp is anathema to the C'tan. They hate anything to do with it, and it is their bane. For the Void Dragon to take on the Eldar with this weapon, and survive is nothing short of brute force. On top of that, the Void Dragon also had the most technologically advanced army. Every Necron had a Lightning Field type of thing, and their technology was much higher than any of the other Necrons.

 

2) The Outsider is imprisoned in a Dyson Sphere in a system, on the fringes of the galaxy, that had its sun blow up and scatter the planets. Why the Imperium has not taken interest in the fact that there is a Dyson Sphere still in a system where the sun has blown up, and still works, is beyond me.

(Aside: for those that don't know, a Dyson Sphere is something that we, even now, are thinking of building. It is used to surround a star and collect solar radiation and energy to be put toward our energy stocks.)

The Dyson Sphere surrounding the planet there is slowly losing its charge. Why could that be? Perhaps the Outsider is taking it for its own stores of sustinance?

 

Ok and now the fun stuff. It is undisputed that the Void Dragon is on Mars. Which is good, everything points to that. Is the Imperium being influenced by its "whispers"? Well lets see. I remember reading in some codex or maybe the rule-book, that when a machine came into close proximity of one of the C'tan or Necron Lords, all of a sudden it, for lack of a better phrase, changed loyalties. Despite the fact that the C'tan are masters of the material universe, they can manipulate machines that have an AI and potentially a conscience...perhaps the Machine Mind is actually a link to the Void Dragon, where all C'tan have a link to their machines. If that's the case...may the Imperium pray that the C'tan are busy elsewhere to worry about them, because all of their prized machinery and vehicles possessed by the Machine Spirit will no longer be at their will.

 

The C'tan are Masters of the material universe. I saw the concern of what they are capable of somewhere on the first page. Well, let me put this into perspective. The Deceiver is the equal and opposite of the Chaos God Tzeentch. The oh so wonderful Lord of Change. What is the difference between them, besides the chaos god's "attractive" face? Tzeentch is master of the warp, and Mephet Ran is master of the material realm. What can the C'tan do in the material realm? Everything! They bend the very things around them for them to go through. They can alter themselves into whatever they want to look like. For god's sake, the nightbringer could turn into a white stallion and gallop into battle against the Imperium with his gaze of death ablaze lmao!

 

The necrons landed on Mars, eh? May I point out that there is NO WAY that it was an accident, and let me tell you why. The Nightbringer cares not for any secret mechanations and underhanded schemes that the Deceiver enjoys to have unfold. So there is only ONE C'tan that could have orchestrated such a thing. The Void Dragon and his armies are still locked away in tomb, so it can't be him. Thus it is the Deceiver. And if ANY C'tan knows how much firepower the Imperium has, it is Mephet Ran. You can rest uneasy now knowing that the Deceiver has sent those Necrons for one reason exclusively, and for one other possible secondary objective:

 

1) Yes, perhaps his intentions were to free the Void Dragon. However, this is only possibly the secondary objective, and it is a slim one at that. The Deceiver knows that the Void Dragon would best suit the Necron purpose right were he was for the moment. I highly doubt that Mephet Ran would have gone through all that trouble just to free the Dragon at this point...but;

 

2) The Deceiver's primary object was definitely this. The Deceiver spent much time among the Imperium altering his body to that of many officers and high ranking officials. Of course, he can't tell everyone "hey look what I can do", but with the two ships landing on Mars, he has effectively just hit the Imperium in the chest with a fast moving anvil. What would hit the Imperium harder: A devestating slaughter? or your enemy landing on one of your most heavily guarded planets with two ships? Let me add also, that the ships were not even detected. They weren't detected through their entire trip through the Segmentum Solar, and weren't until they hit the atmosphere of Mars and landed. That means that whatever defenses there were in orbit just turned around to say, "Oh <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION>e! Where did they come from and how did they get by?!"

The Deceiver made a very clear point. Point being, "you may think your strong, but don't start with us. Look what we can do."

 

Further more, the Imperium DOES know that the Void Dragon is there. Do they know that it is a C'tan? I can't tell you that one. But they are worshiping it as something. Whether they are worshiping it as the Machine God or otherwise, he is there and he has great influence. I believe this, because it is rumoured that there is a group of AM who worship him specifically. I think they call themselves the Cult of the Dragon of something. The fact is, this group knows who he is and if that is true, the probability that the Imperium knows he is there is high. The last time the Imperium destroyed a Necron tomb, they blew up the planet, and even then they weren't positive that they were successful in destroying the C'tan. Point, do you really think the Imperium is going to blow up Mars to attempt and destroy the Void Dragon, who survived battle with a Blackstone Fortress?! They destruction of Mars itself would hinder them beyond repair! AND they will still not be sure that they have destroyed the Void Dragon, and knowing him, they probably wouldn't have.

 

Some of you believe that the Void Dragon is still too weak and that is why he has not woken. Well, can I just point out, that the reason that the Old Ones and the Eldar created the Blackstone Fortresses was because they needed weapons that could actually threaten the C'tan. Before them, nothing could touch the C'tan, namely the Void Dragon, and their awesome power. Now that 4 of the 5 BFs are destroyed and the 5th still contested, is there really anything that could touch the Void Dragon? Furthermore, the Nightbringer was severely wounded, on top of losing his prized ship and his potent scythe. He's at a disadvantage, but he is "full health" now. The Void Dragon has not lost power or anything. His formidable army is still with him, and whether he is full health or not, what do you think anyone could actually do to stop him.

 

Even Chaos, which corrupts all, is not a worry to the weakest of the C'tan. In that one talk in the codex with the Deceiver and an Imperial person, the Deceiver stated, the plague (the Enslavers) was not threatening them. They had no fear of it, and why else do you think the Enslavers stuck to the Old Ones and everyone else. The Deceiver stated that the 4 gods went into stasis because it was effecting everything else. So they would wait for the galaxy to be repopulated. It would seem that they are unstoppable, because each C'tan has multiple tombs, and to destroy the Necrons you must destroy all tombs, and that feat in itself is nigh-impossible. On top of the fact, that you destroy a Necron army, and it phases out back to a tomb where the ENTIRE army is resurrected!

 

Of course, GW would never let the series get to the point where races start to destroy each other, because that would mean the end. And they want a perpetual, constant, state of war! That way they make more money -_-.

 

I'm going to start a thread in a bit after this discussion about what you think would happen if the Necrons actually did complete the Great Ward and seal the Warp from the Materium, and I'm talking details, right down to the rumoured 5th Chaos God imprisoned in the Emperor.

 

So what are your thoughts? I'm extremely curious!

[Captain Idaho]

welcome to the discussion.

 

would like to point out just a few things i believe you got a little out of place.

 

1) The Void Dragon is the most powerful C'tan.

- This is primarily because of the fact that back during the C'tan's war against the Ancients, the Eldar and the Old Ones used the Blackstone Fortresses that they created to destroy the C'tan. As someone on the board has said, the warp is anathema to the C'tan. They hate anything to do with it, and it is their bane. For the Void Dragon to take on the Eldar with this weapon, and survive is nothing short of brute force. On top of that, the Void Dragon also had the most technologically advanced army. Every Necron had a Lightning Field type of thing, and their technology was much higher than any of the other Necrons

 

is this conjecture or fact? id say an educated guess, unless you can supply me with a quote or 2 as evidence. for example, i have never read anywhere that the Blackstones were actually used to destroy a C'tan in action, just that it was the purpose they were built. and how do we know that the tech of the void Dragon and his servents is higher? or that he is he was the most powerful? we need proof!

 

2) The Outsider is imprisoned in a Dyson Sphere in a system, on the fringes of the galaxy, that had its sun blow up and scatter the planets. Why the Imperium has not taken interest in the fact that there is a Dyson Sphere still in a system where the sun has blown up, and still works, is beyond me.

(Aside: for those that don't know, a Dyson Sphere is something that we, even now, are thinking of building. It is used to surround a star and collect solar radiation and energy to be put toward our energy stocks.)

The Dyson Sphere surrounding the planet there is slowly losing its charge. Why could that be? Perhaps the Outsider is taking it for its own stores of sustinance?

 

i agree with opinion, having read the story of Corteswain's witness testimony and the Eldar stories. but how do you know the sun blew up?

 

Ok and now the fun stuff. It is undisputed that the Void Dragon is on Mars. Which is good, everything points to that. Is the Imperium being influenced by its "whispers"? Well lets see. I remember reading in some codex or maybe the rule-book, that when a machine came into close proximity of one of the C'tan or Necron Lords, all of a sudden it, for lack of a better phrase, changed loyalties. Despite the fact that the C'tan are masters of the material universe, they can manipulate machines that have an AI and potentially a conscience...perhaps the Machine Mind is actually a link to the Void Dragon, where all C'tan have a link to their machines. If that's the case...may the Imperium pray that the C'tan are busy elsewhere to worry about them, because all of their prized machinery and vehicles possessed by the Machine Spirit will no longer be at their will.

 

it is actually disputed, in this very thread! sure everything points to that, i think it is likely, but it is far from undisputed!

 

however, i remember the old 2nd edition rules had Necrons affecting weapons when in close proximity, but that seems to have been dropped. but you have presented a good theory. it would be a great plot for a novel!

 

The C'tan are Masters of the material universe. I saw the concern of what they are capable of somewhere on the first page. Well, let me put this into perspective. The Deceiver is the equal and opposite of the Chaos God Tzeentch. The oh so wonderful Lord of Change. What is the difference between them, besides the chaos god's "attractive" face? Tzeentch is master of the warp, and Mephet Ran is master of the material realm. What can the C'tan do in the material realm? Everything! They bend the very things around them for them to go through. They can alter themselves into whatever they want to look like. For god's sake, the nightbringer could turn into a white stallion and gallop into battle against the Imperium with his gaze of death ablaze lmao!

 

agreed! unstoppable and the natural 4 rivals to the Chaos Gods!

 

1) Yes, perhaps his intentions were to free the Void Dragon. However, this is only possibly the secondary objective, and it is a slim one at that. The Deceiver knows that the Void Dragon would best suit the Necron purpose right were he was for the moment. I highly doubt that Mephet Ran would have gone through all that trouble just to free the Dragon at this point...but;

 

2) The Deceiver's primary object was definitely this. The Deceiver spent much time among the Imperium altering his body to that of many officers and high ranking officials. Of course, he can't tell everyone "hey look what I can do", but with the two ships landing on Mars, he has effectively just hit the Imperium in the chest with a fast moving anvil. What would hit the Imperium harder: A devestating slaughter? or your enemy landing on one of your most heavily guarded planets with two ships? Let me add also, that the ships were not even detected. They weren't detected through their entire trip through the Segmentum Solar, and weren't until they hit the atmosphere of Mars and landed. That means that whatever defenses there were in orbit just turned around to say, "Oh <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION>e! Where did they come from and how did they get by?!"

The Deceiver made a very clear point. Point being, "you may think your strong, but don't start with us. Look what we can do."

 

good points and interesting. the are other possibilities:

 

maybe the Deceiver knows of a weapon that is stored there instead of the Void Dragon? maybe he wanted to release it?

 

maybe he actually was on board a ship and is now on Mars? who knows what mischief he could cause?!

 

maybe there is Imperial Tech there that is now a target for the Necrons? maybe they are using a machine spirit data base for their own malipulations?

 

you get the point.

 

Further more, the Imperium DOES know that the Void Dragon is there. Do they know that it is a C'tan? I can't tell you that one. But they are worshiping it as something. Whether they are worshiping it as the Machine God or otherwise, he is there and he has great influence. I believe this, because it is rumoured that there is a group of AM who worship him specifically. I think they call themselves the Cult of the Dragon of something. The fact is, this group knows who he is and if that is true, the probability that the Imperium knows he is there is high. The last time the Imperium destroyed a Necron tomb, they blew up the planet, and even then they weren't positive that they were successful in destroying the C'tan. Point, do you really think the Imperium is going to blow up Mars to attempt and destroy the Void Dragon, who survived battle with a Blackstone Fortress?! They destruction of Mars itself would hinder them beyond repair! AND they will still not be sure that they have destroyed the Void Dragon, and knowing him, they probably wouldn't have.

 

again your probably right, but we still dont know for definite. but likely your right.

 

Some of you believe that the Void Dragon is still too weak and that is why he has not woken. Well, can I just point out, that the reason that the Old Ones and the Eldar created the Blackstone Fortresses was because they needed weapons that could actually threaten the C'tan. Before them, nothing could touch the C'tan, namely the Void Dragon, and their awesome power. Now that 4 of the 5 BFs are destroyed and the 5th still contested, is there really anything that could touch the Void Dragon? Furthermore, the Nightbringer was severely wounded, on top of losing his prized ship and his potent scythe. He's at a disadvantage, but he is "full health" now. The Void Dragon has not lost power or anything. His formidable army is still with him, and whether he is full health or not, what do you think anyone could actually do to stop him.

 

educated guess my friend. that is on the basis of the Void Dragon being the hardest, but do we really know he is, aside from the name? after all, Codex Necrons states it was the Nightbringer that did most of the slaughtering in the great war etc...

 

I'm going to start a thread in a bit after this discussion about what you think would happen if the Necrons actually did complete the Great Ward and seal the Warp from the Materium, and I'm talking details, right down to the rumoured 5th Chaos God imprisoned in the Emperor.

 

go for it. make sure it is in the general forum, and make it about power armour, like how could the Imperium cope, what would happen if the Emperor was infact this 5th Chaos God, would the Spacemarines be torn to fight against him? would loyalist become the new traitors? tie in the Iron Hands with what would happen if the Void Dragon enslaved the Ad Mech (since they have close ties) etc... it is a power armour board after all!

[Ishamael]

is this conjecture or fact? id say an educated guess, unless you can supply me with a quote or 2 as evidence. for example, i have never read anywhere that the Blackstones were actually used to destroy a C'tan in action, just that it was the purpose they were built. and how do we know that the tech of the void Dragon and his servents is higher? or that he is he was the most powerful? we need proof!

 

Well if you follow this link: http://uk.games-workshop.com/necrons/eldar-mythology/3/

 

About half way down the page you get the following reading:

 

"One of these, the most powerful of its kind, was exterminating the Eldar. They named it the Void-Dragon, Oblivion itself, a figure of wanton destruction and devastation in Eldar mythology. It had such mastery over the material realm that its warriors were practically invincible. Just one of its servants could slaughter hundreds of Eldar before falling, only to rise once more. They could channel lightning into their foes, and it is said the battlefields of that time were thick with the charred remains of those that dared oppose them.?

 

This is from where I have made the claim that the Void Dragon is the most powerful of them all. As well as harbouring the most powerful of all Necron Armies. Is that enough proof? :P

 

i agree with opinion, having read the story of Corteswain's witness testimony and the Eldar stories. but how do you know the sun blew up?

 

Well if you go to the Wikipedia page on the C'tan, you can find some details on the Outsider. Although it is Wikipedia and potentially not that reliable, it does make sense that the planet was blown away from the system because of the star blowing up. Plus, according to the Imperium, the dead planet is beginning to catch another gravitational pull and falling back into the galaxy. Anyways, wiki says :P.

 

As for the Nightbringer having the largest slaughter, that is only because he is the first C'tan, and as a result the longest time among any other forms of life.

 

Oh and on that site for the uk 40K it also states that Vaul created the Fortresses to destroy the Void Dragon. So back to my other point, if he could survive that, and all of them are now gone, what could stop him now?

 

Check Please :P

[Captain Idaho]

About half way down the page you get the following reading:

 

"One of these, the most powerful of its kind, was exterminating the Eldar. They named it the Void-Dragon, Oblivion itself, a figure of wanton destruction and devastation in Eldar mythology. It had such mastery over the material realm that its warriors were practically invincible. Just one of its servants could slaughter hundreds of Eldar before falling, only to rise once more. They could channel lightning into their foes, and it is said the battlefields of that time were thick with the charred remains of those that dared oppose them.?

 

This is from where I have made the claim that the Void Dragon is the most powerful of them all. As well as harbouring the most powerful of all Necron Armies. Is that enough proof?

 

oh yeah! i completely forgot about that article, its been so long since i last read it! i tip my hat to you.

 

and apologise to anytime i have said otherwise on this matter, i can admit when im wrong!

 

yeah man, i did agree with 90% of your statements. now it is 99%! the only thing i am a little doubtful about is the exact location of the Void Dragon. probably is on Mars, but we just dont know. dun dun dunnnn!

 

but was the Void Dragon ever hit by a Blackstone? one may be enough, but yet we dont quite know...

 

Oh and on that site for the uk 40K it also states that Vaul created the Fortresses to destroy the Void Dragon. So back to my other point, if he could survive that, and all of them are now gone, what could stop him now?

 

who could stop him? well no-one at present, but then anything can happen in 40K!

[Ishamael]

That is my other concern. There is no way to know for sure that he was hit by one of the Fortresses. I guess that it is sort of implied. Just because in that final battle that we hear of in that article that the Void Dragon went to the battle against the Eldar and the Old Ones to battle these new constructs, and Vaul had the Fortresses there waiting for him. There is no info about the battle, or after it, but obviously the VD stopped or the Eldar wouldn't be alive. If the Fortress didn't do its job, then the Eldar would have been annihilated right there and then by the VD.

 

So by an educated guess, the fortress was fired, but there is no way that it killed him. He is either on Mars or somewhere else, but he is alive. Perhaps maybe the Fortresses weren't used, and the VD left on his own. Maybe the time of the Enslavers and the VD's charge were overlapping, and the VD pulled back his units seeing his enemy being crushed by other things.

 

If that is the case, we have the VD asleep with absolutely no handicap to his power! If we follow the Imperium and Mars, then he could be their "god", in which case, it makes sense that he was hit by it, because their machine god had been greatly wounded. The fact that they are 'restoring' him to power could mean that he is able to regain power. meaning that he could just possibly become as powerful as before.

 

AND, if he does have a connection to the Machine Spirit, then perhaps he has gotten back his strength, because, I mean Titans man! Aren't they possessed by the machine spirit? and baneblades! and land raiders! If this theory is right, currently it is at best probable, then there is a lot to fear!

[Levett]

Where half of this comes from is hilarious.

 

This thread is interesting to say the least, a fantastic read. However a massive amount of the text in this thread is nothing but speculation, and the fueled thoughts of 40k fans. The best example of which is the "5th Chaos God", its no hidden secret back in RT they had Malal, but didnt hold the IP for him so he had to go. Since then, there has never been a mention of him, or a 5th god, and definitely not within the Emperor.

 

This thread would be 50 times more useful to people if quotes / extracts could be provided to backup your speculations, as at the moment, to someone who follows the fluff in a huge way, this thread is fantasy, and not much more.