Cheesus Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Just something to add to all this. I just finished reading the second Cain book and in it there is Adeptus Mech. + necron shenanigans. The lone adep. Mech. survivor of said dealings gets promoted and transfered to the Noctis Labrinyth on Mars. Thought you all might be intrested by that tidbit. Cheesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angronn Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Don't know if anyone has said this yet (haven't got through the entire thread!) but I remember reading a mention of the Void Dragon readying his army of Pariahs, the human-Necron hybrid. Where is he getting his stock of humans...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divergent Reality Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 well... if the pariah gene can be determined and specifically bred, theres a possibility it is just having soulless people make soulless babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus6 Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I would think (maybe a big assumption) that cloning technology would not be unknown to the Necrons or possibly some sort of modification of captured humans,...I hate to use this analogy but something very "borg-like", where the human that is captured, infected with whatever nano-technology, and then is changed, altered and eventually loses its sense of self. I dont know,...just thinking out loud. Severus6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divergent Reality Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 in a sense, that is already what pariahs are. they have the fleshy bits left in them to allow the scary face abilities. but are modified and buffed with the xenos technology. i guess the c'tan could reconstruct people if they wished. i would imagine that any such construct would be devoid of a soul. not in the same way that a pariah is. just a rounded down to a zero kind of soul. not a true zero like a pariah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 in a sense, that is already what pariahs are. they have the fleshy bits left in them to allow the scary face abilities. but are modified and buffed with the xenos technology. speculation here man. no fluff to say they are cyborgs at all, they are just "transformed" humans. nothing more im afraid. agreed, the necrons probably could create life with their technology, though the C'tan enjoy harvesting a little too much. plus they like the chase... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divergent Reality Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 in a sense, that is already what pariahs are. they have the fleshy bits left in them to allow the scary face abilities. but are modified and buffed with the xenos technology. speculation here man. no fluff to say they are cyborgs at all, they are just "transformed" humans. nothing more im afraid. agreed, the necrons probably could create life with their technology, though the C'tan enjoy harvesting a little too much. plus they like the chase... indeed. all speculation. what new fluff that has been added so far to necrons in apocalypse does not touch this topic. its merely organizational structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus6 Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Tis true, my apologies for the open speculation. However I think the next level analysis by Divergent Reality is fair: a rounded down to a zero kind of soul. not a true zero like a pariah. I think thats as good an explanation as I have heard,...close enough to zero as to not register; not a true pariah but capable of doing what is necessary, ie: being a "chassis" for the overall vehicle. Severus6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da smas Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 well there have been many conflicts between the mechanicus and imperial ( Emperor worshiping) forces. and titans are supposed to be idols of the emperor/ omissiah and yet the tians are of non-huminoid form. pehaps the titans are egiffies of the void dragon not the emperor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratoKhan Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Non humanoid? They're bipedal, with two arms and a head. Pretty human looking if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jibreel Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 This may have been mentioned already, but was Mars built around the Void Dragon or did they open up the planet and pop him in? If it was the Old Ones, or someone influenced by them that imprisoned him (we can probably assume this since why would the Void Dragon imprison himself somewhere which he needed help to get out of?) then why would they imprison him in the place where he could cause the most trouble, right on the doorstep of humanity? They knew of his power so they put him inside the closest planet to Earth where humans are, humans of course being renowned for their ability to be lead astray, that doesn't sound very likely. So either the Void Dragon made a mistake and stuck himself in a prison he couldn't get out of, or he's biding his time-but then why did Necrons land on Mars if not to rescue him? Or he'snot in Mars after all and everything is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 It says in the dawn of war: Dark Crusade game that their lead pariah was human. That he is indeed a undead hybrid. Dont know how well they keep to the fluff for the game, but thats pretty solid if they were told to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanicus Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 This may have been mentioned already, but was Mars built around the Void Dragon or did they open up the planet and pop him in? If it was the Old Ones, or someone influenced by them that imprisoned him (we can probably assume this since why would the Void Dragon imprison himself somewhere which he needed help to get out of?) then why would they imprison him in the place where he could cause the most trouble, right on the doorstep of humanity? They knew of his power so they put him inside the closest planet to Earth where humans are, humans of course being renowned for their ability to be lead astray, that doesn't sound very likely. So either the Void Dragon made a mistake and stuck himself in a prison he couldn't get out of, or he's biding his time-but then why did Necrons land on Mars if not to rescue him? Or he'snot in Mars after all and everything is fine. The Void Dragon is presumably in a Necron Tomb which is buried beneath the Noctis Labyrinth, which is a mining area. He's not that deep within the planet, or, at least, I haven't seen anything to claim that. There were probably caves there originally which led down to the Tomb, and the humans just added to them to mine with. What the Nightbringer was waiting for was to be woken up by aliens, humanity in this case, by using their innate curiosity. We don't know exactly how the Dragon will be woken up, or if he just has a time limit after which he will wake up. As to the Necron landing, think of it like this. The Deceiver has been stated to have recently realised he needs the other C'tan's help to take over the galaxy. Before that he tried to stop them being woken at all costs. The Deceiver has infiltrated the Mechanicus under the name of Magos Reston Egal (hah!), who was strident in his claims that the site of the Necron ships' landing should be fusion-bombed and sealed with ferrocrete. His demands were overruled, and the zone was declared perdita, with a Legion of Skitarii stationed there. The Nightbringer was woken in 999.M41. The Mars Gambit was in 998. Let's say that the Deceiver wanted to stop humans getting into the Dragon's tomb. How could he do it without revealing himself? Perhaps by providing a reason for the site to be avoided. Well, xenos are reviled, and if one were to set foot on Holy Martian soil... ;) Obviously, if this is the case, the Deceiver failed. People still can get in there by having authorisation to pass through the quarantine zone, despite claims by the Lords of Mars that the area has been contaminated since the Great Purge (Heresy related, perhaps?), and at least one Magos was transferred there in the last century of M41. After his failure to isolate the Dragon's tomb, he decides he needs the help of the other C'tan. The next year, the Nightbringer wakes. :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divergent Reality Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 why would they imprison him in the place where he could cause the most trouble, right on the doorstep of humanity? you need to realize, the void dragon has been on mars much longer than humans have been doing anything productive on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Bear Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'd have to go read the codex again but didn't the C'Tan go to "sleep" before humanity was even around? This would give the void dragon plenty of time to get to Mars before humanity did. Damn it, I'm going to have to reread the fluff when I get home from work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan the Lurker Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 You should take a look at "Dark Apostle" from Black Library. It gives some really good insight into how the AM fight and how their troops are made (low-jack-zombies basically). However it also deals with the AM going in alongside the Imperial Guard to prevent anyone from finding a buried Necron Tomb, a tomb buried by the AM on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus6 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I concur; its at the end of the book but you see the absolute deadliness of the Necrons along with great details on the AM. Severus6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 After his failure to isolate the Dragon's tomb, he decides he needs the help of the other C'tan. The next year, the Nightbringer wakes. nice theory but it fails to take into consideration that the NB was awoken by eldar and humans seeking immortality and power. things went a little "funny", but the Ultras were on hand to, well do nothing really, except destroy the NB's way of calling back his personal tomb ship from the warp. so i think the Deciever has no part in awakening the other C'tan, as they dont actually trust him... but i like this bit: As to the Necron landing, think of it like this. The Deceiver has been stated to have recently realised he needs the other C'tan's help to take over the galaxy. Before that he tried to stop them being woken at all costs. The Deceiver has infiltrated the Mechanicus under the name of Magos Reston Egal (hah!), who was strident in his claims that the site of the Necron ships' landing should be fusion-bombed and sealed with ferrocrete. His demands were overruled, and the zone was declared perdita, with a Legion of Skitarii stationed there. The Nightbringer was woken in 999.M41. The Mars Gambit was in 998. Let's say that the Deceiver wanted to stop humans getting into the Dragon's tomb. How could he do it without revealing himself? Perhaps by providing a reason for the site to be avoided. Well, xenos are reviled, and if one were to set foot on Holy Martian soil... very thought provoking... how about this, maybe there is nothing on Mars at all! maybe the Deceiver was just doing what he does best, Deceiving! thats why Abbaddon found it so funny that so much trouble was being caused by nothing...! not that i agree with my own statement, but it wouldnt be impossible for the Deceiver to do that! just unlikely GW would want to waste a golden opportunity like that. take a look at this: if we take the predictions of the future from the Farseer's dreams in Codex Necrons as the planned way the C'tan want to implement, we see that they plan on sharing out the cattle in a never ending feeding frenzy. this seems to me that they have made peace with eachother enough to come to an agreement on their course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanicus Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 nice theory but it fails to take into consideration that the NB was awoken by eldar and humans seeking immortality and power. things went a little "funny", but the Ultras were on hand to, well do nothing really, except destroy the NB's way of calling back his personal tomb ship from the warp. so i think the Deciever has no part in awakening the other C'tan, as they dont actually trust him... The Nightbringer was woken by a power-hungry Kasimir de Valtos, who was already interested in the C'tan after finding the scrolls of Corteswain. Then, suddenly, he discovers they're right below his feet, within Pavonis itself. I wonder where that information came from? :P After all, he does at some point realise that he needs the help of the other C'tan, and we're never told when de Valtos find out about the tomb to my knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I'd have to go read the codex again but didn't the C'Tan go to "sleep" before humanity was even around? This would give the void dragon plenty of time to get to Mars before humanity did. Damn it, I'm going to have to reread the fluff when I get home from work. of the four ctan we have today only 2 went to sleep. the void dragon was beaten by the coalition of all races and imprisoned . And the outsider was seen even by the ctan as crazy and to dangerous to be around . Even the reaper man , who was a killer of his own race , knew he couldnt take him on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 where did you get this fluff from? is it an educated guess? makes sense but im not sure i agree on all your points. it has never been stated that the Nightbringer can be taken / is scared of the Outsider or any of the other C'tan. indeed it was him that ate the most of them. not sure why people always assume the Dragon can take him easily either, we have next to no fluff on the other 2 C'tan, especially the Dragon. think people make the association that the name of "dragon" implies massive and hard so they assume he is harder than everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essim Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Idaho, I think the problem is that the Void Dragon is commonly accepted as the strongest, I'm not sure exactly how much base this has (Necrons aren't my style) but it IS believed and is stated on the Lexicanum (though once again, fan-additions are possible.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Idaho, I think the problem is that the Void Dragon is commonly accepted as the strongest, I'm not sure exactly how much base this has (Necrons aren't my style) but it IS believed and is stated on the Lexicanum (though once again, fan-additions are possible.) yeah i think your right. there is an old 40k quote in 2nd edition Codex: Imperialis that is relevent here. "If a lie is repeated often enough it becomes accepted. Once accepted it becomes truth." very poetic and an absolute favourite. basically there is no evidence for the opinion other than the name. indeed, reading the Necron codex it seems to insinuate that the Nightbringer is the "leader" and most powerful in the Nightbringer section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da smas Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Non humanoid? They're bipedal, with two arms and a head. Pretty human looking if you ask me. uuugh so are orks i think that they are eggifies of the void dragon. after all it might not look like a dragon...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebird Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Idaho, I think the problem is that the Void Dragon is commonly accepted as the strongest, I'm not sure exactly how much base this has (Necrons aren't my style) but it IS believed and is stated on the Lexicanum (though once again, fan-additions are possible.) Even with the C'tan's fatal weakness to warp energy, several Blackstone Fortresses in unisson, weapons of such high power that they can destroy planets in single strikes of pure warp energy, were unable to actually damage the Void Dragon. They made him sleepy. It's madness to take the thing on. Furthermore, the Void Dragon can manipulate technology and bend it to his will. He won't wake up, ever. If he did, it would be akin to all tribes of Orks uniting and making for Terra, the Chaos Gods becoming so powerful they would manifest in the warp, Ynnead, the Eldar's God of the dead would finally awake, The Emperor would become the Star Child and the lost Primarchs would return. Endgame, Ragnarok, total Apocalypse. Destruction of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.