Ultramarines Timeline

[Brother Pariah]

763/M39 Due in no small part to the favorable stance taken by the Ultramarines, the Land Raider Crusader design was sanctioned by the Adeptus Mechanicus. (Codex Space Marines, 2008, p. 82.)

[Brother Pariah]

Top post updated. I think that's everything from the new Codex.

[antique_nova]

Im sorry about that i recently read a post concerning the ultramarines taking all the credit for everything and ontop of that i am having a really bad day, and i should never take anything out on anyone jsut because of a bad day, it wasnt a fluff post i read it was straight from the new sm codex, the original post has been deleted, sorry for disturbing this topic, and keep up the work of grounding any tyranid invasions the bt cba with that atm lol.

thanks

antique_nova

Edited October 17, 2008 by antique_nova

[Captain Idaho]

No worries, I suppose it can be annoying when your own favoured army gets left behind by new releases (BT and DA in particular).

 

Anyway, what I was going to ask regarding this topic was can we (when finished) separate the time line into 2; one which is the current one we have, and another which is just information that doesn't contradict itself, using the most recent (revised) fluff when there is conflict?

 

I understand that could mean more work, but it would give us 2 great resources.

Edited October 17, 2008 by Captain Idaho

[Seahawk]

Anyway, what I was going to ask regarding this topic was can we (when finished) separate the time line into 2; one which is the current one we have, and another which is just information that doesn't contradict itself, using the most recent (revised) fluff when there is conflict?

 

Every marine player already has that timeline: the codex they use to play the game! I don't think they need another.

[Brother Pariah]

You're welcome to start a new thread to work on such a project. This is a Research Project, intended to gather data. Of course, what's the point of gathering data unless you're going to use it for something? You're welcome to use the data for whatever you want; just be aware that there will probably be some heated debates once you start interpreting data rather than simply recording it, as we have done here. Go for it, and (heh heh) good luck reconciling all these contradictory data-points!

[The Emperor's Champion]

Ohh.....sounds like fun.

[Captain Idaho]

<Sighs> I guess I have another project to work on! I might have to put this on the back burner so I can get the article I am working on finished!

[Brother Pariah]

Can you really put a project on the back burner when you haven't even started it yet? :lol:

 

I added cross-references for alternate dates to the top post. I'll do one more editing pass to clean things up and then send it to the librarium.

 

EDIT: A cleaned things up a bit. Got most of the tenses to agree, and tried to standardize some of the minor layout and punctuation and such. I doubt it's perfect, but it's a lot better. Submitted the new version to the Librarium.

Edited October 18, 2008 by Brother Pariah

[Seahawk]

You might've wanted to remove the link to Index Ultramar; none of the links work. Also, you could probably link the 1st company replacement dates for 861, 945, and 995. They are all indicators of the same info. I know you did 945 and 995, but 861 is part of that mess too.

[Brother Pariah]

861 isn't quite the same info, but it's probably sufficiently-related that it warrants a cross-reference. I'll try to see if I can find something on archive.org (or the GW site, really) that covers that Index Ultramar material.

 

EDIT: Done and done and sent to the Librarium again.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Brother Pariah

[Sigismund Himself]

If changes need to be made, please edit them into the existing article.

[Brother Pariah]

:blush: Oops! I didn't know I could do that. :blush:

[Brother Pariah]

998/M41 Tactical Squad Marcellus is marked out for particular commendation for valorus conduct in action against Hive Fleet Leviathan after they fight their way clear of a Genestealer-infested underhive. (Codex: Space Marines, 2008, p. 30-31)

[Brother Pariah]

5732341/M41 The Third Company, commanded by Captain Ardias, is seconded to the Naval vessel Enduring Blade. Actions against Tau and Chaos forces at Dolumar IV. (Fire Warrior, p. 60)

[Brother Pariah]

141/M41 Damocles Crusade. The Crusade collapses, leaving several human worlds under the patronage of the Tau. (Fire Warrior, p. 101)

 

241/M41 Ardias is elevated beyond the rank of sergeant. (Fire Warrior, p. 173)

[The Emperor's Champion]

Weird how each one of those years ends with "41/M41".

So Ardias was Captain for at least 100 years before he died. That's good to know. I liked that guy.

[Brother Pariah]

Weird how each one of those years ends with "41/M41".

So Ardias was Captain for at least 100 years before he died. That's good to know. I liked that guy.

Looks like at least 500 years, by my count! Woo!

 

Top post: updated.

[Shas'El Mont'va]

I'd triple-check (and possibly change) those dates that Brother Pariah posted from Fire Warrior.

 

Firstly, the baseline "date" was a timestamp from a communique between Governor Meyloch Severus and Admiral Constantine, but not only is the check number a blistering 5 (meaning there's a good chance the date itself is a bit off), but included just before the timestamp reads "Time reference 1632.17 (terracode)", which may or may not be some kind of 'key' for deciphering the date among ships.

 

Secondly, there are numerous cross-referenced sources dating the Damocles Gulf Crusade at 745.M41, ranging from the Tau codex itself to the Rogue Star series of novels.

 

Besides these points, there are quite a few technical aspects of the novel Fire Warrior that set it somewhere in the (much) later portion of the 41st Millennium (especially given what we already know to be the truth about the date of the Damocles Gulf Crusade).

 

1) The ship utilized by the Tau in Fire Warrior was an Emissary-class Cruiser, which didn't actually see service until the late 900s.M41 with the rest of the Kor'or'vesh and was never sighted by the Imperium until the Dolumar IV incident itself. [cref. Forge World Kor'or'vesh fleet list, Tau Armada fleet list]

 

2) The Rail Rifle in its current, safer state is a product of extensive field testing and, as the codex states, has only "recently been authorized for issue to front-line units". Given that the latest codex is set somewhere during the Third Sphere Expansion (998.M41 - ???.M42), I'd say that La'Kais' upgraded (read: safe) Rail Rifle from Fire Warrior was not a product of Second-Sphere engineering, nor was it undergoing field testing at any point during or before the Damocles Gulf Crusade. [cref. Tau Empire Codex]

 

---

 

Basically, what I'm chalking this up to, is a combination of someone fudging the dates (hell, the game said it was set in "2002.M41" in the opening cutscene...), and/or Simon Spurrier not getting the memo that Captain Ardias had died (or was it only grievously injured?) in 745.M41.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Tau inaccuracies aside, it makes sense to me.

 

Kais had the first experimental "safe" Rail Rifle, even in his Special Character rules. He WAS the field testing.

 

As for ships out of whack...THE WIZARD DID IT!

 

Either way Tau fluff accuracy, while probably easier to maintain at this point, is probably not as important to GW as finally wrangling a hold of Space Marine fluff accuracy.

 

(not that they seem to be TOO worried about accuracy in any form...)

Edited December 3, 2008 by The Emperor's Champion

[Brother Pariah]

I agree that dating this novel is extremely problematic. There is simply no way to make it fit into the timeline comfortably. I considered forward-dating everything so that the date of the "Damocles Crusade" from the novel matched the date of the "Damocles Gulf Crusade" from various other sources, but that gave us Captain Ardias alive well after his death-date. I finally decided to do what I've done with so many of these data points: just type in what the book says (it has a hard date, "5" check-digit or no) and damn the consequences. This timeline is not and never will be internally consistent. I realize that my decision is particularly problematic from the Tau point of view but, well, this is an Ultramarines timeline.

[Shas'El Mont'va]

Point, Brother Pariah.

 

All in all, however, I'd say a very easy (at least temporary) fix would be to just replace the word "Ardias" wherever it is found in Fire Warrior with the word "Fabian" and call it a day. ;)

 

And I'll have to agree that there really isn't any way to mesh it in with the current timeline effectively. Fire Warrior simultaneously states that the Damocles Gulf Crusade occurred roughly "two-hundred years ago", while Captain Ardias was only promoted "one-hundred years" ago. These two statements alone are obviously conflicting

 

Dates Verified by Two or More Sources

742.M41 - Damocles Gulf Crusade occurred. (Tau Codex, Rogue Star)

~950-980.M41 - Emissary-class Cruiser enters Tau fleet service. (Imperial Armour III, Kor'or'vesh Fleet List)

~980.M41-Present - Rail Rifle enters Shas service. (Chapter Approved 2004, Tau Empire Codex)

 

Meanwhile, Fire Warrior is stuck in some temporal warp or alternate universe where it's supposed to be set sometime leading up to the Third Sphere Expansion, but Ardias is born much, much later on the timeline, was never involved in the actions against Hive Fleet Behemoth, and was promoted to Captain sometime between 850 and 880.M41...

 

Stupid Black Library and their stupid un-cross referenced stories... ;)

 

---

 

Speaking of Ardias, though, are there any sources other than WD255 claiming/stating that he's actually dead?

 

I know it's irrelevant because even if he could have been alive during Fire Warrior, he was a Captain in 745.M41 and so the "two hundred years ago" (Damocles Gulf Crusade)/"one hundred years ago" (Elevation from Sergeant) won't match, but yeah...

 

Your guys' "Complete List of All Named Ultramarines" sticky says Ardias is still the current Captain of 3rd Company... ^_^

Edited December 4, 2008 by Shas'El Mont'va

[The Emperor's Champion]

Ardias is dead in Index Astartes. Ardias IS dead.

 

Ardias died in the withdraw of all Ultramarines forces as they headed to Macragge to defend against the incoming Tyranids at the Battle Of Macragge (.M745)

So yes, the Damocles Crusade WAS .M742ish

 

Rail Rifle date is mostly irrelevant. Like I said, Kais from Fire Warrior WAS field testing prototype Rail Rifles.

[Brother Pariah]

Point, Brother Pariah.

 

All in all, however, I'd say a very easy (at least temporary) fix would be to just replace the word "Ardias" wherever it is found in Fire Warrior with the word "Fabian" and call it a day. ^_^

A tempting idea. My personal solution is to assume that the "Damocles Crusade" (in Fire Warrior) is different from the "Damocles Gulf Crusade" (in other sources). It's a stretch, I admit, but it keeps my head from exploding too much. ;)

 

Meanwhile, Fire Warrior is stuck in some temporal warp or alternate universe where it's supposed to be set sometime leading up to the Third Sphere Expansion, but Ardias is born much, much later on the timeline, was never involved in the actions against Hive Fleet Behemoth, and was promoted to Captain sometime between 850 and 880.M41...

Look at our timeline a little more closely. You'll see all sorts of data points from orphaned pieces of fluff, floating in their own alternate universes. Discovering such things is just part of the fun of this project.

 

Speaking of Ardias, though, are there any sources other than WD255 claiming/stating that he's actually dead?

As far as I know, no. However, there's nothing indicating that he's alive, either.

 

Your guys' "Complete List of All Named Ultramarines" sticky says Ardias is still the current Captain of 3rd Company... ;)

That thread is way too filled with minutiae, even for ME! It's a fool's errand, I tell you! Turn back while you still can!

[Capt tyranus]

I believe part of the intent of the Timeline Project WAS to highlight the date inconsistencies in the fluff. Ardias is far from the most egregious example.