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New 40k Balance Dataslate and it’s implications for us!


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If you use the stratagem Consolidate Squads every turn, you can start to build a big blob of Guardsmen with a 5++, at LD 9. Take an Astropath and cast Psychic Barrier to turn that 5++ into a 4++, and now you’re cooking with gas. Take a Platoon Commander, and you can order that growing blob to move around or FRFSRF.

Didn't they FAQ Psychic Barrier that it doesn't effect Invuls?

No, that was the Take Cover strat. Spell is still fine.

 

With regards to the results over the weekend...

 

I suspect a lot of people, who weren't used to that playstyle anymore, suddenly switched to mass infantry and then were surprised when they lacked the practise to play that kind of army efficiently anymore. Also that free lascannons aren't worth much if your opponent easily removes 30-60 infantry in one turn.

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Indeed, while it is good to see something it is too early to say much and with the array of variables in play for a game we should always take them with some salt accordingly. As a dataslate it was unlikely to make significant changes, so the overall fate of the army won't change much - "better" is a relative term after all :tongue.:

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We will get our codex at the very end of 9th and then another codex at the very end of 10th.

 

This is the way.

honestly if a big range refresh is in the works and not just a few new kits I could see guard being 2nd or 3rd codex of 10th to be released.

But then we’ll just hear all the bitching about being under powered and codex creep all over again 6-9 months into the edition.

Seems like the sweet spot honestly about 1-1.5 years into an edition, get the benefit of some power creep, without having to wait too long, have time to benefit from buffs later in the edition, and then before you know it a new edition with expectations of a new codex on the horizon.

Edited by Inquisitor_Lensoven
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Big facts, Inquisitor_Lensoven. As much as a range refresh kind of makes me nervous (I haven’t liked the Wyvern, Scions, or Taurox models), I am cautiously optimistic based on that awesome Catachan Colonel sculpt and the promise of Kasrkins.

 

I wonder why AM got pushed to the back of the line this edition. Weren’t we one of the first of 8th? I get the impression GW doesn’t really like AM/IG that much, and prefers their humans to be of the super-human variety in this setting. Which is strange, because I think some of the best 40k lore ever produced were Dan Abnett’s gritty human perspectives in Gaunt’s Ghosts and Eisenhorn.

 

That’s a bit off topic, but here’s what I think the issue is:

 

1) GW is hesitant to give lasguns better than S3 AP0. And guardsmen better than 5+. But in this world of increased killy-ness, the old guardsmen aka “human” statline simply does not mean what it used to.

 

2) power creep on weapons generally has hurt our classically good choices. I remember the days when the Earthshaker Cannon was an iconic weapon, and actually dangerous. Now it’s solidly mid-tier. Even good choices like Demolisher/Punisher TC are over-costed for their output.

 

In short: this dataslate wasn’t enough. It’s a patch, and I guess definitionally not meant to be enough. But even so, AoC has put us in a pickle.

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I am not surprised. Hammer of the Emperor is nice, but not a big Deal as many of our Guns are comparable low AP and Damage, AoC is a big Problem for us.

Also with the 60 Points price Tag on Infantry we actually can field even less Squads now, and Infantry Squads are our main way to Win as they make the most VP for us.

 

Yep. I kept warning people not to get too excited. It should be seen as a reliability buff (props up the average damage) and a speed rolling buff (when under the chess clock) not a damage one. 

 

Honestly. I only see 3 ways to buff Guard to get them to at least 40%.

 

1) Allow custom regiments to take 3 doctrines. Allow named regiments to take 1 custom doctrine in addition to their own. Give Commissars in Militarum Tempestus detachments the Militarum Tempestus keyword, and thus also the <Tempestus Regiment> keyword. 

 

These are all thematic, it allows players to really specialise their armies. For example a player could take Agile Warriors, Disciplined Shooters, and Wilderness Survivors. Catachans could take Lord's Approval in addition to their trait making them much more viable in melee. Then Commissars in the lore train with Scions at the Schola Progenium as well as come from the same organisation, the Ordo Tempestus. 

 

2) Allow Scions to get Hammer of the Emperor, without breaking it for regular Guard. This allows Guard players to have 3 choices when it comes to list creation. Pure Guard, Pure Scions, or mixed. While hotshot lasguns really benefit from Hammer more than anything in the regular Guard portion of the codex they're limited by datasheet choices, and have to work around 9 inch rapid fire. 

 

3) Massive point reductions. I've said it a hundred times, but I'll say it again. Something like a standard Leman Russ (not a Tank Commander) should be sitting around:

 

- Vanquisher: 110 points (including hull heavy bolter)

- Eradicator and Exterminator: 115 points (including hull heavy bolter)

- Executioner: 120 points (including hull heavy bolter)

- Battle Tank: 125 points (including hull heavy bolter)

- Demolisher and Punisher: 130 points (including hull heavy bolter)

 

This is heavily compared to the Dunecrawler. Which the Russes defensive and offensive profile is eerily similar to statistically. Then use these point costs as a template to internally balance the rest of the codex vehilces, and fingers crossed the FW ones. 

 

All 3 of these together should make Guard viable, but nowhere near a meta army.

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I wonder why AM got pushed to the back of the line this edition. Weren’t we one of the first of 8th? I get the impression GW doesn’t really like AM/IG that much, and prefers their humans to be of the super-human variety in this setting. Which is strange, because I think some of the best 40k lore ever produced were Dan Abnett’s gritty human perspectives in Gaunt’s Ghosts and Eisenhorn.

 

At the End of the Day Games Workshop is a Business and from a Business POV there are other Factions which are more likely to get sold.

Guard is in a weird spot when it comes to actual Playing the Army, at least it is so in my Tabletop Community, everybody likes the Faction but only few are willing to buy, assembly and paint so many Models. a 2000p Guard Army is way more expansive to collect as say Marines or Custodes.

That's why i guess GW pushed Guard back in favor of more promising Factions like Space Marines 2.0 or Squats. With the newest Statline preview for Squats i am now 100% sure they will come out with Codex and the Modell Range before Guard.

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At the End of the Day Games Workshop is a Business and from a Business POV there are other Factions which are more likely to get sold.

 

Guard is in a weird spot when it comes to actual Playing the Army, at least it is so in my Tabletop Community, everybody likes the Faction but only few are willing to buy, assembly and paint so many Models. a 2000p Guard Army is way more expansive to collect as say Marines or Custodes.

That's why i guess GW pushed Guard back in favor of more promising Factions like Space Marines 2.0 or Squats. With the newest Statline preview for Squats i am now 100% sure they will come out with Codex and the Modell Range before Guard.

 

Yep. I imagine the next few months of codex releases will be:

- Both Knight codexes in May

- CSM in June

- Squats in July

 

Then who knows who'll win the race to opposite first between WE, SM 2.0, Guard, and Daemons. 

Edited by jarms48
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  • 3 weeks later...

Played my first game of 9th against an un-nerfed Tyranids list (the FAQ dropped a day or two after our game) ran as Tallarn: 8 Leman Russ Tanks, 4 Battle Cannon w/LasCannon 2HB one with 2PlasmaCannon, 2 Demolisher w/LasCannon 2HB, 2 Punisher w/Flamers with no sponsons, 60 guard ea w/Missile Launchers, Vox, PlasmaRifle, Plasma Pistol Power Sword Sergeant. Was focused on mass fire trying to get as many 6s to autowound as possible. The match was pretty one sided in favor of the 'Nids of course. One turn 3/4 of my army fired on one Tyrnafex? only causing 11 actual wounds, it shrugged off most of my auto hit 6s with its feel no pain. I forgot to shoot my missile launchers as D6 frag variants instead used Krak missiles to poor effect. 4 out of 6 go my overcharged Plasma riflemen self destructed when rolling 1s. The Punisher tanks were great for charging right at the enemy and still being able to shoot their non-blast turret guns in while stuck in combat, sadly they didn't do much damage against the big bugs. My one take away was that I should have used Grenadiers strat once per round, after my LR Tank Commander and fellow Russ got his Flyrant down to five wounds, a squad of brave guardsmen ran over and threw grenades at it getting 28hits, which knocked off the 5 remaining wounds. His Flyrant destroyed about one of LR tanks per turn, dishing out some stupid number of wounds plus mortal wounds, maxing at 17 one round. Really wish Guard had some Mortal Wound generators... game ended 43 to 93 Nids. Sad state of affairs for our lowly troopers. :( 

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