T-Rock

As someone who has had great success (local meta) and got absolutely ROFLstomped off the table (NOVA Trios Event) I think some of the complaints/concerns expressed in this thread are lacking context. Before this discussion can be conducted in a meaningful way, we need to ask ourselves the following question... What is your meta? Based on this, you will arrive at one of two conclusions: Your meta is very competitive. You frequently play against things like Guilliman & Celestine, smite spam, scrip spam, brimstone spam, or (insert current meta cheese here) in the majority of your games. If this is the case, no amount of tactical nuance or list building will make BT competitive. You will spend the vast majority of your games praying you don't get tabled or scrounging objectives while pulling your hair out. I ran a list that was cleaning up my local meta and got tabled in both of my games by turn 3 (scrip spam w/Guilliman & Stormraven spam) at NOVA. Let me assure you, having different chapter tactics will make ZERO difference in games like this. Look at the top lists at NOVA. CT don't even enter the equation. The only way to hang is to join the meta and play whatever broken models are the cheese de jeur. You will not have fun running BT in these games. Period. Most people who think the sky is falling and are endlessly complaining about our rules are suffering in this meta. OR Your meta is more casual/thematic/narrative focused. Note: This does not mean you only play casual players or noobies. It means you play opponents who do not typically break the game to gain an advantage, exploit RAW, or Google auto-win lists. In this context, our Chapter Tactics are fairly solid. Until I went to NOVA, I had won my last 7-8 games against Orks, 1K sons, Deathwatch, Dark Angels, etc. and I was matching up with some very solid players running strong lists. These are games where strategy and a bit of luck matter more than your list. In games like this, Black Templar are very viable. You will have fun running BT in these games. Most people offering tactical advise in threads like this are offering it from this perspective. Of course, this could all change based on FAQs and Chapter Approved. The important thing to keep in mind is that the meta changes and evolves faster in 8th than it ever has before. That could be good for us. Secondly, always be sure you and your opponent are clear on what your expectation is with the game. I struggled with this situation for half of 7th edition. Eventually, I succumbed to the fact I had to play super competitive games with my Templars using UM/WS CTs and be satisfied that my skyhammer was at least reminiscent of Black Templar's fighting style. Trust me, I pulled my hair out for months prior to that trying to make BT work against the likes of Eldar and battle company lists. It wasn't worth the anguish.

A new Marshal has joined the Promethia Crusade! Marshal d'Montfort has already distinguished himself in battle, slaying Ahriman in a single round of combat during his first mission. The efforts of his Household ensured victory on the fields of Konor, as they slayed dozens of heretic astartes in close combat. Pictfeed below. [/url]

I have to say, I've started fielding two RL/LC squads to sit in my backfield and take out vehicles/MCs and it's been working very well. The wound output is very solid, but more importantly they've been great backfield objective holders while the rest of my army drives forward and deepstrikes. They're low priority when I have a packed LRC with Helbrecht/EC, plasma bikes, deep striking vanguard vets, and a drop pod loaded with melta. I think Sigismund will forgive a few heavy weapon teams considering the 30+ marines with CC weapons charging up the table with zealous abandon.

I'm looking for some custom Templar shields, Gerhard. Mind sharing a link? The FW ones are too bulky for jump PA marines. I'm running 2 squads and equipping 4 with sword and board and 4 with plasma pistol/chainsword. My sergeants have powerswords/plasma pistols. They are being lead by a captain with a thunder hammer. All told it's about 300 points (captain included). I'm thinking the stormshields can absorb any AP fire and if I fail my charge I still have 6 supercharged plasma shots rerolling ones I can throw at their target. If I get in to close combat I have 30 CC attacks rerolling ones as well as 4 3+ TH attacks. I feel like that'll be a nasty alpha strike. If I'm worried about their survivability or vehicles, I can choose to drop my 2 crusader squad drop pod filled with melta for target saturation and support.

I played my first game with the codex rules yesterday and was very pleased with the results! It was a perfect venue for our stratagem as I faced off against a Thousand Suns list with Ahriman for the Konor campaign. A few highlights... -Abhor the Witch blocked a Maulerfiend from positioning itself with Warptime to charge my LRC TWICE. We're talking potentially game winning implications. -Reroll charges helped me big time as I had two very bad rolls on a 5 inch charge. Second roll ensured both of them got in to combat. -Yet again my LRC was an MVP unit, mowing down rubric marines with sheer weight of dice. -I experienced the downside of having multiple smaller units, as each squad that made it in to CC made it subsequently more difficult for the next squad to make their charge. It ended up causing half my charges to fail, as he positioned his units in such a way that by the time my first two charges went off, my next two increased from 5" to 9". -Ultimately, sheer weight of fire cut down most of his rubric marines and lascannon/missiles gimped his defiler and maulerfiend, then Helbrecht and company piled out of my LRC and dropped the hammer in close combat on 10 rubrics and Ahriman. Considering the Konor mission rules, it was impossible for him to win by turn 4. Victory for the Templar!

Greetings brothers! With our Chapter Tactics the worst kept secret in the Imperium (besides the fact Dark Angels are heretics) I've been putting a lot of thought in to Vanguard Veterans. Currently, I'm feeling a plasma pistol/chainsword combo with a Captain/Castellan supporting with re-rolls. That makes them a threat from both range and close combat, which has now been buoyed by our chapter tactics. So, while I found Vanguard Veterans as a potential solution for my list, I kept peeling back more questions. I figured I'd share and get some conversation going, as I see these fellas as a valuable part of our crusade going forward. Fluff wise, what color would you think their pauldrons would be? Assault marines were always white with red trim, but technically these are just sword brothers with jump packs. I'd love to see some pictures if anyone has any on hand they are proud of. Crunch wise, what are some loadouts you have found effective? For those of you who have used them in a few different games, how did they perform? How many did you bring? Discuss!

The EC has been a beast in all my 8th games. Really hoping he isn't getting a significant nerf. Though it's hard to imagine him losing 30 points and not having a pretty noticable stat change.

:lol: A lot of ork players have been resurfacing in my local meta since 8th dropped. Green tide lists require A LOT of stabbing.

According to Redmapa, it is. If he's right, there are going to be a lot of happy Templars on this forum.

Honor the chapter sounds like a game changer. Imagine a 15-20 man crusader squad within 6" of Grim and Helbrecht fighting TWICE in a combat phase. That is straight up nasty. We're talking 60ish chainsword attacks AND 4 thunderhammer attacks from a Sword Brother (all rerollable and generating more attacks on sixes) in a single combat phase? Sweet freaking Emperor! I'm surprised more people aren't taking about this.

I really hadn't considered black tide until reading that, Henricus. Some interesting ideas to mull over. I feel like it might be worth while to sit a RL/LC dev squad or two in the backfield for objective squatting and anti-vehicle, as mechanized lists are becoming increasingly prevalent. Combine that with the stormraven zipping around and board control from the crusaders, and your pretty set for objective grabbing. My main worry would be against other CC oriented armies or hordes, though. Maybe I've come up against genestealers one too many times since 8th dropped, but even with buffs our CC output is solid, but not sensational. I feel like this list would struggle to chip enough wounds off horde lists and go punch for punch with CC armies. Still though, I'm intrigued by the idea.

Lordy. I leave the topic for a day, and by the time I'm back we're getting librarians and getting rolled in to the Ministorum. :lol: Let's pivot to things that could actually happen–like the return of the Holy Orb of Antioch! Really though, sans Grimaldus' Helsreach memorabilia and Helbrecht/EC's weapons, what other relics do we have or might see?

I don't think we'll get a codex. We are unique in our tactics, aesthetic, and chapter organization, but sans sword brothers and neophytes I just don't think we have enough unit variety to necessitate a separate entry. That said, I don't think that's cause for despair. What will happen, I believe, is each chapter will get far more focus, diversity, and flavor within the upcoming book. The indexes have already made LRC, crusaders, and our HQs more viable than ever, allowing us the tools to play BT the way they're meant to be played. If our chapter tactics are solid, and HQs remain strong, I feel like our hunt for a codex is kind of a red herring, distracting us from the potential boons GW has already provided us with to help BT retain its flavor. I could be totally off on both points, but I remain optimistic for now.

In honor of all the crusades to come in 8th, I gathered all the strength of the Promethia Crusade and hired some servo skulls to take some picts. Here are the results!

A Black Templar's take on the prompt.