Gripharius

I think you can justify anything if you really want to justify it. You can throw out almost any specific Astartes-level threat and we can figure a way to make an exception to the rule. My point is about the way Foundings generally work. Generally, the HLOT (or their trusted military advisors), look across the galazy at both the current threats and the looming threats to the Imperium, and weigh those against against the current and expected forces of the Imperium. If they see or expect increased or increasing levels of Astartes-level threats, and/or decreased or decreasing levels of Astartes forces in play, then they undertake the lengthy and arduous task of Founding a Chapter or several Chapters. It's the difference between resource production and resource allocation. Resource production is more about how much you need versus how much you have, while resource allocation is about where you are going to put which resources. Of course, resource allocation is necessarily a part of resource production -- you have to forecast what kinds of allocations you will have to make when you are doing resource production. I think its more about having enough Astartes to face all of the Astartes-level threats that the Imperium may face rather than xeroxing out a fresh bunch of Space Marines every time some new horde of greenskins goes Waaagh or some star system falls to Chaos. But I guess my larger point is really more the case where an IA assumes Inquisitor so-and-so or Magistrate X can snap his fingers and 20 minutes later a brand new Chapter is created to face whatever band of miscreants have gotten his panties in a wad. I think that detracts from the overall ultra-elite nature of a Space Marine Chapter. EDIT: And with that, I will seek inner peace, pray for serenity, and try to let this go.

Even if the Founding date is the date when the Chapter is ready to go into action, then all of the actual founding and creating of the Chapter has already occurred. If the Founding date is also when the Chapter gets an assignment to go fight X, I don't see how you can say that fighting X is the reason why the Chapter was founded. Besides, I've always assumed Founding dates were more like "the 21st Century" than "January 6, 2014." EDIT: I realize I'm being obstinate and unnecessarily argumentative, but like I said, it's a personal pet peeve.

My personal pet peeve is an IA that treats the founding of a Chapter too lightly, like something that happens every other weekend or at the snap of someone's fingers. Like "Inquisitor X told the Adeptus Mechanicus to make a new Chapter to fight a horde of greenskins infesting Star System Y, and then 6 months later, the Fighting Marines of Doom were born, and they crushed the greenskin invasion." I just think it cheapens a Chapter by suggesting it was created because some backwater planet somewhere got a hangnail. If you are going to touch on the Founding of your Chapter in your IA, I think you should reflect how rare and how special Foundings are, and what a massive amount of Imperial resources are involved. The Imperium is used to dealing with mammoth undertakings that involve thousands of worlds and billions of people. But a Founding is a really big f'n deal even for the Imperium. If you read that passage quoted above and think about it, it really makes sense. The amount of time involved, as well as the allocation of manpower and valuable resources... it's a complex and special event that requires consideration of the "macro" big picture rather than individual planets and specific threats. And considering the scale of military force represented by a Chapter, I think Founding one is probably one of the very few things that the HLOT would never delegate, but that's just my opinion. However, I realized that certain IA writers want their Chapters to have a singular focus from its earliest days, which is why I included the part about the HLOT and their first assignments. I think the difference between giving a Founding its due and treating it like a push-button event is more than just semantics. Now, admittedly, its a personal pet peeve and I'm not trying to stop anyone from doing anything or laying down some kind of law on Foundings. If someone wants to write an IA where some AdMech Priest just sticks some geneseed in a microwave and 20 minutes later a full-grown Chapter jumps out, that's fine, I'm not stopping you. I just think its a bigger deal than that, and should be treated as a huge and momentous occasion from the outset.

Interesting Chapter and the IA looks pretty good. Maybe consider adding a line or two explaining how they became so mobile-centric? Maybe the WS commander was a Veteran Assault Biker and had always dreammed of fielding an entire company of bikes, never seeing the use for footsloggers or slow tanks. Just a thought. Also, I think Stygian Angels works better for the Hells Angels theme you are going for. Maybe Angels Stygian.

Great work, Owl. I like the IA and the Chapter looks great.

Octavulg, I'd like to propose that you consider adding an addendum to your guide regarding the lengthy and complex process involved with the creation of a Chapter. Some DIY IAs include very specific reasons why or missions for which the Chapter was created. Considering the huge, complex process involved with creating a Chapter -- even for the Administratum that deals with huge, complex processes every day -- the idea that any particular Chapter was *created* for a very specific purpose or specific mission is unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely). Obviously, the Chapters created to lid the Eye are a prominent example of Chapters created for a specific purpose. But the scale of creating numerous Chapters to guard something as massive in scope and threat as the Eye should be considered. I suggest that IA authors consider whether the High Lords really go through the very lengthy and resource-consuming process of creating a Chapter just because of a series of pirate raids on a frontier of the Imperium, no matter how devastating those raids were (just for example). Now, once a few fledgling Chapters are nearing the end of the creation process and the High Lords get around to allotting them homeworlds and missions, of course they would likely consider major and recent threats when sending them off on their first assignments. While I know that the wiki is not canon, consider the following entry from the WH40K Wiki on all of the massive elements and moving pieces in the preparation for and creation of a Chapter in a Founding. Considering this may help illustrate that, generally, Chapters are created because the High Lords feel the Imperium as a whole needs more Astartes, not in response to any particular threat or event. See http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Chapter.

The monsters, from my reading of it, are the "failed" gene-seed recipients that mutate into huge snake-serpent-lizard monster things. I think. I like KHK's idea of the Inquisitor's journal, that's a good thought. You'll have to work hard to make sure you express the Inquisitor's bias against the Chapter, so the reader won't be able to accept all of the claims the Inquisitor makes in the Journal.... There has to be enough suspicion by the reader that the Inquisitor is a bit off-key so that the reader knows that at least some of the information is exaggerated or possibly imagined. Like the Inquisitor could remark at examining the discarded corpses of Basilisk neophytes and "clearly" seeing signs that it was mauled by some giant serpent creature, but the "backwards" hive-world doctor he enlisted to examine the corpse was too dense and ill-equipped to find any traces of reptile fang marks, and the AdMech priest he confronted with the corpse refused to even inspect it. That may not be the best example, but that's the kind of thing I think you'd have to do to keep it somewhere between related observable facts about the Chapter but also including some unverifiable lore or rumor that you may not want to fully reveal.

To Octavulg and Ecritter: I think the above explains a lot about the perspective and the purposes of this thread's author and why he is doing what he is doing. If you can read this and see where he is coming from, I think you can understand why your questions and comments are receiving the response that they are. I don't mean this to be a criticism of anything, I just think The Lord Marshal is coming at the Liber from a different perspective and with different purposes than the average Liberite. EDIT: I apologize, I miss the part about not cluttering up this thread. I apologize and I'm out of here. :)

I like the Chapter and the name. I do have a couple of suggestions that you might consider. I think having the Inquisition and the AdMech following the Chapter around and collecting the discarded corpses of its failed neophytes and battlefield dead strains credulity. I don't think the Inquisition or the AdMech would be so passive aggressive. They'd either kick in your door and start rifling through your underwear drawers, or they'd go home and wait for you to make a mistake. I also think your explanation of why the Chapter's gene-seed may be, or at least seems to be, so stable is kind of muddled, like in the first paragraph of the gene-seed section. One solution that might help with both of these things is to have the Chapter engage in a little disinformation. The Chapter could use its serfs to spread rumors of specific but mostly false rumors regarding its Curse. They could publicize and exaggerate how abnormally low the gene-seed implantation is for your Chapter (leaving out the ship full of giant snake monster part). They could exaggerate their visual limitations and keep their thermal vision secret. They could also suggest their Neuroglittis doesn't work at all. This removes the problem of the AdMech being so interested in the supposed "stability" of their gene-seed. It also makes the AdMech a lot less interested in their gene-seed tithes -- why would the AdMech want gene-seed that fails to implant umpteen times more often than normal, and even when it does work, it makes half-blind Space Marines without a functioning Neuroglittis? Also, whatever interest the Inquisition might have had in the Chapter's curse is also gone, leaving them just concerned about their heavy-handed tactics with other Astartes, something the Inquisition might be willing to basically let the other Astartes sort out. If for whatever reason you want the Inquisiton following the Chapter around, consider making it a lone Inquisitor rather than the whole "institution" of the Inquisiton (I put institution in quotes because its pretty clear the Inquisition rarely, if ever, functions as a whole institution). Maybe a young upstart Inquisitor investigates the Ash Eagles incident, but somehow the Chapter finds a way to hide the evidence and make him look like a fool. So this young Inquisitor decides he's going to bring down the Basilisks and make a name for himself. So he's the one following the Chapter around, collecting its discarded neophytes and battlefield dead, etc. I think a lone Inquisitor with a grudge is easier for the Chapter to keep at bay then "the Inquisiton" as a force. Just some thoughts.

I think Raven Angel has the best solution. As long as you have even a minor alliance with the AdMech so they won't report any problems to the Inquisition, you'd probably be fine, even if an Inquisitor came sniffing around. Your guys could just put a couple of Space Marine spleens in stasis tubes with the AdMech's post office address on it and let the Inquisitor watch you put it into the old Imperial mail chute... As long as the AdMech says its cool, looks good to them, how would the Inquisitor really know any different? Lol

Well, creating an Adeptus Astartes Chapter that is not Imperial in origin and has geneseed from more than one source is an ambitious project, to say the least. I, for one, would be interested to see how such a feat could be believably accomplished.

I think that, while you might consider Ecritter's first response as *mildly* snarky, your response to him was just as snarky, too. He then outlined several obvious problems with your draft. Unless by "intelligent critic" you mean "psychic critic", there is no possible way for any critic to comment on what you have not yet written. Its not as if you said "Beliefs - coming soon" and Ecritter said that your Beliefs were all wrong. You posted a draft and he pointed out some potential errors. You can accept his comments and say you are going to explain that more later, or you can choose to ignore his comments. I agree with most of what he pointed out, so I think ignoring it will hurt your Chapter.

Thanks, I appreciate it. The Sons of Antaeus and Minotaurs may do OK out of their macro-Curses, but every Cursed Founding chapter suffers from gene-seed instability, misfortune, and the Imperium thinking they're cursed. That's not a good thing. It may not be explored in detail, but it doesn't mean it's not there.It's possible you might have a Cursed Founding chapter without a notable mutation - C:UM said that only some have big ol' mutations, but that may just be "the rest haven't been found out yet". Then again, the Fire Hawks are CUrsed Founding, and they were fine until they turned into the Legion of the Damned. Good points. I like the idea of a "macro-Curse". That actually fits in with my concept in a way.

Love the figures and I like the Chapter. I'm struggling with the "Cursed" aspect of my Chapter because I'm using the 21st Founding for other reasons, not because I'm giving them some unique Curse. The Sons of Antaeus don't appear to fit the "Cursed" mold or the unlucky, etc., requirements. The Minotaurs don't seem to fit the mold either.

Just an example of how the Chapter joins Ultramarine tactics with Raptors tactics. Something like a standard "Codex" attack pattern easily read by defending Renegade Marines who gun down the advancing Black Eagles. As the Renegades come out of their entrenched position, gloating at the ease of the victory because they recognized the standard tactic, the "dead" Black Eagles stand back up and annihilate the Renegades. Maybe that's a weak example, but something where the two sides of the Chapter are shown. Maybe one Company advances in a Ultramarines "shooty" attack while another goes Raptor "sneaky" on the enemy from behind.