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Surely no one actually really thinks the old attack bike was worse than the ATV?! The attack bike was basically a standard space marine bike, a design that was well received, with a heavy weapon sidecar added on. Inspired by a WW2 motorbike/sidecar combo. Hardly anything wrong with it, a design lineage that came from the original RT bikes. Meanwhile the ATV is an absolute mess of a design with no similarity to the Outrider bikes it goes with, or any other marine vehicle. Maybe the intent was something like the warthog in Halo, but the end result was a Mario Kart reject. The outrider bikes look like an update of the previous marine bike, should have done the same with the attack bike. Maybe they will with the rumoured upcoming multi-part outriders.

Centurions just needed to be upright, not squatted like that Custodes shield captain fellow

Love how it's a inspired by the old 2nd edition Grots. Only fitting given the theme of the set.

... do we need gravis at all?

I didn’t realise quite how long ago I started this thread! Anywhere, here’s the latest addition - a Vostroyan Lord Marshall kit-bash / conversion. C&C very welcome. Cheers, Lorr

On the one hand, I will be somewhat sad to see Rhinos etc go. (as in, I'm not going to ever stop running Rhino chassis tanks, box dreads etc. no matter their official status- to me, they are what Space Marines are; I've never bought a Primaris vehicle and I never will. Not because of "hatred" or anything silly like that, it's just a product that I have zero interest in). OTOH, it's been nine years. Things change and many, many products in this world aren't kept around for the amount of time that even the newer firstborn kits have had (whether we're talking miniatures, games or any other type of product). Of course, I feel there should be support for these kits, but I also think it is fundamentally an unrealistic expectation to feel like we're entitled to everything sticking around forever. That's just not how the world we live in works. However, if, like me, you're of the opinion that Space Marines have a fundamental identity (both lore- and looks-wise) that you're not interested in moving on from, remember that you can just not do that. Even if you can never, ever get anything but a pickup game, it's not like proxying and counts-as ïs not an option. I also feel like it should be said that yes, people get annoyed when things change, but before Primaris we had a lot of people complaining that things were getting stagnant in both the lore and the model range. You can argue that it was a "monkey's paw" kinda thing and this is not what people really wanted, but realistically speaking, it's simply not possible to please every customer group at the same time - and in the world we live in, new product will always trump everything else, so they pick the option they think will sell the most new stuff. Does it suck? Yeah, it kinda does, but it is a business to them and a hobby to us and expecting different is merely the second step on the road to disappointment. Finally, if you love firstborn, I sincerely hope you have what you need at this point, because it's not like there hasn't been (and still are) any opportunities to buy this stuff. That's not a dig at anyone who prefers the firstborn aesthetic either; I am firmly in the "we don't talk about Primaris" camp myself and I'm never going to start pretending hover tanks are actually as cool as Rhinos.

Amazing that you're even saying something like this. Imagine if the sort of Primaris shake up happened to the Craftworld Eldar. Imagine if all the current designs started slowly getting phased out in favour of the current crop of Corsair kits or a new Ynnari aesthetic. Would you say the same thing to the people who like the old Aspect Warriors in that scenario? You act as if people being more discerning about the faction they picked years ago is some sort of insult pointed directly at you. You're entitled to your opinion, but often times your posts feel like you personally made it your task to make a "BUT I LIKE IT" type post every time someone expressed even the slightest bit of dislike towards a new release or even just a preference for an older design.

On the contrary; your last hope of not getting people complaining about the loss of real Marines for their oversized Poochie replacements was actual upscaled Mk.7. If this is true and real Marines are actually going the way of the dodo, you will have to endure the (justified) grumbling about the engakkification of Space Marines, forever.

Ok, but Legends do exist. And because they exist, I want them to be handled to the same standard as they are in AoS.

GW has a business plan centered around constantly pushing new products, regardless of lore change or model invalidation. To legends they go, which is a nice way of saying we’ll forget about those models in a few years time. The player base that used to be, pre-pandemic, is not the current player base. That’s just from my own personal experience, playing the game, going to the game store, and going to some huge events like the Las Vegas Open. It’s expanded! We’ve got a whole new generation of players that don’t have the physical and mental baggage of editions past, and lore lost. As long as people keep buying, the machine will keep churning. I’ll pour one out for the homie devastators and tacticals that are no longer here. I’m also trying to get in a Zen state about editions and changes, because hobby is supposed to be fun. Sometimes the bickering, and concern over change overwhelms what the hobby brings me personally, which is an escape from reality and a chance to hang with friends.

I just want to express how happy I am that ATV and Suppressors will be gone., because I hate both. Now, could we do something about heavy stubbers and calf thrusters?

Ah yes, the new and improved Suppressors, Inceptors, Aggressors, 3 man Sanguinary Guard and so on. It truly was reflexive hate when I turned the Gravis captain I got in the Dark Imperium box and noticed that he looks as if he's suffering from excess fluid in his abdomen, the oversized Gravis power pack and the fact he was missing his backside. This isn't really about liking "horrible old models", it's a matter of design really. For example in terms of art and design I will prefer the Tactical Squad and older designs over the Intercessors and Mark X. They are fine models in terms of quality most of the time, but I dislike their completely uniform appearance. Massed Imperial Guard infantry have more personalization options per model than the premier infantry kit for the flagship faction. A lot of Primaris design was questionable, like releasing an Apothecary model without a narthecium. It took until the Blood Angels release to fix that. I forgot to mention the Storm Speeder and how it's an unsightly brick the size of a Rhino that replaced the equivalent of a flying scout car or light weapons platform. Talk about new and improved.

I think I'll go with gold! Thanks. Yellow for the regular squad members (as a role designation) and green for the sergeant, yeah. I sure hope that the yellow will look right. I quite liked how it looked as a tertiary colour on the shield Captain from the previous page - this has given me a confidence boost to try it out on larger surfaces. Here's a small update. I think I managed to get most of the armour and leather done. The idea for the backpacks is to keep the 'base' of the pack purple to match the armour and paint the top part/thrusters black. While it's probably not apparent from the photos (the output is quite similar), I'm looking for ways to make the painting process more enjoyable. I think for regular troops, I'll settle on relying on drybrushing for base of the highlights. However, with only a week left, I'm a bit concerned (and pessimistic!) about getting them done by the month's end for the 12 Months of Hobby vow.

You just keep playing them. They aren't being removed from the game. One weekend a month you can't play then at an RT and then you go back to your normal play and use them if you want to.

I'm not surprised the Firstborn are being dumped, if it wasn't for brand recognition I think the term space marine would have been dropped in favour of Primaris at launch and they would be reconned to always have been Primaris. But this is the reason I think that veteran players should seriously look at playing other editions and not just going with the official current edition treadmill nonsense. They are your miniatures and how you play with them is up to you otherwise you will be eternally caught in the cycle of get excited for new product, buy new product, put new product in the pile of shame and then get excited about the next new product which will get legended in favour of even newer new product. No one should be shocked by this by now.

It sure looks like you have things planned out. Good for you - I think it's a very healthy approach to the hobby. As an aside: As a hobbyist who was active during 5th/6th edition and skipped most of the changes of upheavals post 8th edition, I still struggle to adapt to the 'new norm' where many kits' availability is limited and the pace of turnaround is breakneck, given my progress. Back in the day, I never struggled to get the kits I wanted and the shelf-life of products appeared to be longer (or even indefinite). Now, things are clearly different: characters locked in boxes or available later for quite ridiculous prices, discount boxes being limited runs etc. And there's this inherent pressure to this: get things now with a discount or risk missing them out entirely or having to pay full prices. I find this "new GW landscape" quite frustrating. And it's great that I'm not in the hobby loop since I find myself very prone to these kinds of addictions :D It seems we have a very similar approach to the hobby. These are my thoughts and plans, too. I'm quite happy to get the new speeder, though. *** In terms of staying on-topic within this subforum, here's some actual work in progress. The botched squad markings after my first attempt: And after an attempt to refine them without resorting to painting them from scratch: I now regret not having taken a 'before' photo of the other pads, but here are the finished ones with the chapter symbol: These are also a great example of my limited imagination/foresight. Initially, I planned to paint the blue cross on top of the yellow stripe and... it turned out the that there wasn't enough contrast between the two bright colours. That's why I decided to put more work into these and paint a purple line/border to help set the crosses of from the yellow stripe. I think I got it right in the end but, frankly, I should've thought about it beforehand.

I'm not going to argue with you if you're going to assume how I feel about this hobby. I wouldn't have bought any of the models I bought over the past 10 years (post 8th edition era) and I wouldn't be spending time converting the same miniatures if the hobby made me miserable. It's clear you're on the back foot because you're constantly making concessions to arguments people made in this thread, but you still somehow sneak in a snipe at people you see as detractors.

It just occurred to me that an all Firstborn army could be played using the Leagues of Votann rules. Even the heights line up.

Some of you were not around for the horrors of the first chaos Possessed models and it shows. :P Crazy part is that some of you think the Suppressors look worse than the Humpty Dumpty Centurions(no matter the flavor).

What would make everything a lot better is if Games Workshop could support Legends better than they currently do. Allows us to toggle Legends units on and off in the Warhammer app so we can build lists with them more easily. Make sure the rules are better collated and laid out in the PDF, etc etc They don't have to balance or update them regularly, but they could make them easier to access and enjoy.

Obadiah: The Tower of Echoes was an imposing building, as was so much Imperial architecture: a towering spire, wider at the base but narrowing as it rose, surrounded by a circular pile of mortared stone topped with domes and a few smaller minarets. Snarling and gibbering gargoyles lined the eaves. The outer walls were supported by flying buttresses that arced up 20 meters or more, and every flat surface was covered with graven images of the Emperor and his saints. The facility itself was encircled by an outer wall, no more than three meters high, though it was no serious defense. It featured no turrets, nor were there any guards walking a parapet. Few were the brave souls who wanted to actually enter an Astropathic Relay. The lone gate in the exterior wall sat on the southwest side, where both a road from parts westward and a path coming up from a small jetty in the river met. The approach had been easy enough; the fall of night had done much to conceal Obi and his companions, and the Arbites had fallen far behind them. They had a watercraft and a pair of skimmers executed a standard grid search over the crash site, but the bright lights made them easy to track. Obi walked in a deep crouch, his camo cloak pulled in tight across his plastron, about five meters north of the road. Two armed sentries stood at the simple gate in the exterior wall. They chatted amiably, barely paying attention, and the Mantis Warrior had considered killing them at a distance. . . but he wanted to make sure there was no one else out of sight to raise an alarm. His slow progress got him up to the wall without issue. He clicked his tongue into the vox twice, and got two clicks back from Tarh. He let his autosenses pierce the darkness in the direction he'd come from, but even his enhanced vision couldn't pick out the man's hide. Good. A short vertical leap let him get his fingers onto the top of the wall and he smoothly heaved himself up and over the wall. He dropped down on the other side, still cloaked by darkness and cameleoline. He peered at the gate, and sure enough the two guards at the actual portal were not alone. There was a sort of a guard house -- a small shack, really -- with an open door and as he watched, a silhouetted shape moved back and forth within. He slid Silence from its sheath and closed the distance. The guard from the shack stepped out into the cool night air and marched around to the gate, and he heard Tarh's vox-click in his ear as soon as he heard the new arrival begin to chat up the two other guards. A quick glance into the shack showed it empty of other people, so he slipped around the front. Silence flew from his grasp, and the monomolecular edge took the shack-guard in the temple with a wet thunk. Before the man even hit the dirt, a red flash from the near-distance snapped out and drilled smoking hole in the forehead of one of the guards. Obi sprang forward and grabbed the last man by the throat, choking off his scream before it could manifest, and closed the gauntlet's grip. The man's neck bent at a weird angle with an audible snap. He quickly dragged all three bodies into the guard house, retrieved his knife, and doused the interior light. "Advance," he whispered over the vox. "We're going in." The courtyard between wall and main building was open and poorly lit; only the main entrance -- wide, double doors of bronze carved in bas-relief of the Emperor -- had bright lamps set on either side of it. Silence clutched tightly in one fist, Obi crept to the doors. Flattening himself quietly against the wall, he reached up to the lamp on his side of the door and ripped it down with one quick tug. He was about to cross in front of the doors to get the second when Tarh's long-las flashed again out of the darkness and cracked the lamp-bulb. He paused a moment, waiting patiently, eyes never leaving the doors, until Tarh's smaller form coalesced from the darkness on the other side of the door. "Ready?"

All this proves to me is that it's about the friends we make along the way. So, when's the wedding?

I may be in the minority but I quite like Gravis. The 8th edition ones weren't great but the Eradicators and Heavy Intercessors look good to me. I like the helmets as they look like a cross between MkX and Terminator helmets.

I've decided to start this WIP thread to share some projects I am working on. Mayhap it will help to keep me motivated... In the last 2-3 years I amassed some considerable amount of miniatures, mostly second-hand minis that I got a good deal on. Now, I really should start painting them. Yet, I have been slacking recently - the only model I worked on since the end of Call to Arms last year was this quick Spartan Assault Tank I gave to a friend: The transfer sheet from BaC did a number on me and started desintegrating mid-applying. So some markings ended up a bit crooked. Suits the legion I believe... Anyway, I've decided to take a break from my beloved Night Lords (for a while at least, I have some ideas for them still). Recently I procured some absolutely botched Mk6 tacticals and Tartaros, for low, low price of a few $. So, they got conscripted into my fledgeling allied Raven Guard detachment! So far I only got 15 of them painted earlier last year: I went with weathered look - think Isstvan survivors, smth along these lines. I should refine my techniques a bit, let me know if you have any suggestions. But, so far, considering how quickly I've done them, I was quite happy with the results! So, I got to work with the new guys, stripped the many, MANY paint layers, ripped most of the bolters, and tried to give the squad some character. I've tried to put my bits box to good use. Some paint is still there, but I don't expect it to matter under the weathering, rust etc. I hope I'll manage to start painting these soon, though I am still putting together some other squads.

Field artillery kit-bash.

I think the Mk X helm looks good on Deathwatch, as they're slightly more "sci-fi" and "tactical" in my mind, but for everything else, I just can't bring myself to like it no matter how much I try. As for Marines in general, I think Primaris have good and bad points, design-wise (fluff-wise, I find them horrendous, but I can ignore that, so it's no big deal to me). For most of the things, like the bolt rifles, armour plates and knees, I have no problem with going "it's just Space Marines to me", but there are a few sticking points, like the neck guard (which is easily trimmable) and the "ankle bulb" (which is less eaily dealt with, but eaiser to ignore). Honestly, I think we'll end up seeing most of these design choices fade away as everything slowly morphs into one big "Space Marine" design melting pot. Some of the newer minis are among the best Marines they've ever done, but I still look forward to them blending more old design cues in there. As for the fluff and new units, well, 40K is a long-running franchise that only really exists to move product, so I think it's just common sense to accept that the "true" creative work has been done a long time ago and now the creative and artistic spark is going to have to come from oneself. It's like when my friends complain about Star Wars (or I complain about the Simpsons). I mean, yeah, it can annoy you sometimes, but trying to put one's finger on some big reason beyond "it's been running since forever, of course it's not great art anymore" is a fool's errand. Factor in nostalgia and one can be frustrated from here to eternity, if one does not accept that it's our own job to make it speak to us. But GW does provide some great raw material most of the time.

Victory. Victory is the colour. EDIT: With the splash landing out of the way, gentlemen we will move on. @A.T. go ahead and assume you have moved to Harville and begin your work there/continue with any narrative you think appropriate. @FabiusV4lcoran and @Xin Ceithan I will PM you both to discuss matters in due course. @Lord_Ikka Go ahead and rendezvous with Tyro, Cain and the two warp breaches in waiting. @Trokair and @Iron Father Ferrum go ahead and narratively conduct your extraction from the river. Assume the town is map south, and the side you want is map north. Be advised Mithra is amphibious and will be fine, but Tarh and the Co-Pilot will not. @Lysimachus, @Necronaut, @Machine God, @Mojake, @BadgersinHills begin your narratives for preparing to launch, board and capture the freighter in that order. We will narratively tie everything together in due course.

Yeah there's no one stopping you from just getting close enough. I get there's some internal rationale for people who want to field an exactsies type of force... But they're toys, they're meant to be played with, use some imagination and we can all have a good time.

There are some work-arounds. Now squads are pretty much fixed, you can represent them however you want. You see that 5-man tactical squad with a missile launcher? As far as your opponent is concerned, that is now a 5-man Intercessor squad with auxiliary grenade launcher. Not everything can be proxied but there is certainly no need to shelve your Firstborn stuff, particularly if you like the models and would struggle to paint a new army.

In terms of proportions I agree, but in every other metric they are lacking and a pain to work with if you want some variety. The Space Wolves were a pleasure to build and should be the standard for the reworked intercessor kits and any future Space Marine release. My hopes for the new Speeder multipart are the crewmen being loose parts so I can stick them on the Proteus assault couch pattern of Land Speeder.

I remain convinced the ATV was designed as a joke, to see how just how bad a primaris model GW could get super fans to buy and convince themselves it was "actually not as bad as i feared now i've seen it in person, honestly I totally don't mind it"

Loota is one with big,, over the shoulder gun. And Flashgitz have THE best guns as they are more of mercenaries with need for the flashiest, bestest shootas

April vow finished, last model done - Inquisition kill-team member (Heavy)

While neither of these units are favourites of mine, the loss of choice is always a sad thing.

2nd part of vow done - 3 Pioneers and 4 Kapricus Defenders. Just need to get my little Inquisition kill-teamer done.

I'd say inceptors and desolation marines are way worse than suppressors. Akimbo dumpy plasma cannons looking like they're floating like Baron Harkonnen from David Lynch Dune. And Desolation marines with the underslung, belt fed, revolving rocket launchers.

Well in spite of a busy week I’ve managed to find time to finish my latest rendition of Lord Marshal Dreir! In my head canon he’s actually Marshal Marius Konstantin, leader of the now reformed 3rd Krieg Siege Regiment. I’ve really enjoyed working on such a beautiful sculpt (especially with the head and torso swap) So much so in fact I’ll be painting my Deathriders! Here’s the pics: Krieg Lord Marshal Dreir Krieg Lord Marshal Dreir Krieg Lord Marshal Dreir Krieg Lord Marshal Dreir Krieg Lord Marshal Dreir Can’t wait to get started on the Deathriders! Thanks for looking.

Sapik: Sapik had been monitoring the vox while he waited in camp for the arrival of the friends. Just before news of the bulk hauler's impact hit the network, Atesh felt the most exhilarating, delicious, horrifying thrill build up and wash through him. Shortly later, he came to himself. He couldn't say he lost consciousness, exactly, but he definitely wandered from himself. He wiped black blood from his nares, changed his face rag, and looked for Rakash. Upon finding him, he exclaimed: "Rakash! Did you feel that?! Ooohhhhhhhhh all goes according to plan!"

Hagga: Hagga watched with something approaching amusement as the hauler raced towards the bastion. He looked away for a moment as sudden detonations erupted at the other end of the city. Good. Varne's demolitions team had been successful. He looked back… What the…? The hauler had sailed past its intended target entirely, and was now in the process of burying itself in the heart of the city. How…? How in the name of hell had Ressokov missed so badly? And how had Ukalegon allowed it to happen? Much of the city was now being destroyed in the throes of fire or flood, including the Administratum building and the Cathedrum, but this was still a bloody disaster! The Imperials had a structurally sound fortress that the Corsairs had no weapons capable of penetrating. It would be a rally point for all the defenders still in the city, and an anvil that the Corsairs would be obliterated against once the rest of the Imperials returned - and they would be on their way very, very soon if the Provost Marshal had half a brain… Then more immediate problems broke the Executioner's train of thought. A heavy rattle and clatter against the hull, juddering their flight. Of course. The Hydra that should have been dead seconds ago still lived. “Evasive action!” he roared. “Put us down somewhere in the city, below their firing arcs!” Even in his armour, he felt the drag of the pilots’ sudden manoeuvring, and had to grab at a handhold on the internal bulkhead. “We can drop you in the city, but there's nowhere to put her down, my Lord! It's too tight between the buildings!” Hagga grimaced, switching to his vox even as he turned away to hurry to the troop bay. ++Fine. Find us a flat roof, and hover as low as you can over it for a few seconds! Then get the hell out of the city until we call for you!++ Astartes were foot soldiers. The best foot soldiers in the galaxy. If they could get on the ground, maybe he could figure out a way to turn this around. He didn't know how yet, but he'd be damned if he wasn't going to give it a try! “Mourn! Kraggan!” he yelled as he reached the bay, “get ready to jump! Eska, come here! Veni, throne-damn it!”

More like they settled on a new design for rhino and are using that as the basis for updated predators/vindicators/whirlwinda/razorbacks. They might (stress might as its all rumours at this stage) only give us the new rhino and Land Raider this edition and then release the others next edition (of course they could drip feed over the edition like the assault terminators).

The brutes are done. As is my vow I believe. I'm going to add eithersome myrmidons, urserax and/or a culexus assassin.

Bah, Mk 7! That's newbie stuff! Real marines wear beakie armour! Speaking of which, I have been building some assault intecessors out of blood claws, and giving them mk6 helmets and studded shoulder pads. The beakie helmet works really well with the lower gorget.

The Wasp: With a herculean effort, the Mantid hauls on the stick, the mechanism buking and buckling in his hands, fit to tear free from the console, and the ratchets, clamps and guide-rods it is bolted, bolstered and buttressed to. The airframe, in its death throes, fights his genhanced body with almost wicked recalcitrance. It is the power of gravity, combined centripetal augmentation, which is proving so difficult to defeat. The Co-pilot begins to flag. She does not have the Lyman's Ear, not the gyroscopic stabilisers in her armoured suit. Barzani has no magboots. The Co-pilot goes slack, as the blood drains from her head, and she finally slumps unconscious, covered in her friend's oily-slick, red, guts. Her arms flap about helplessly even as Barzani's feet begin to shift. Sparks fly as the vessel lurches, the Administratum building filling the forward view - horrifyingly exposed now it has been shorn open. Without his faceplate, Obadiah's eyes would be stung by cinders, debris, grit. They patter off his casque and visor, grim-faced on the outside as the flesh contorted into efforts of will and concentration within. His muscles are fighting a whirlwind. His feet are not secure, until he slides into the fixtures of a crash harness, and, legs splayed, he finds the first bit of purchase. His lips move in mantras, not of prayer, but hypnogogic training. He does not see the pitching building which will be his tombstone, he sees only the small cherub perched atop the altimeter, and her matched twin hovering on the horizon bubble. Deeply, his mind flees from the pain, processing fear as only an Astartes can. His whole body tingles with kill-urge, shame at failure, hatred he is to be robbed of his great chance. Barzani ceases existing. His body is afire. His eyes narrow in the deadly battle haze the Mantis Warriors are whispered to suffer, but they do not succumb. Neither does he. Time slows. Every edge sharpens to painful light, to a dull throb of pulse, and there is a twitch in the gauges he's been holding steady with all his might. They begin to move. They begin to respond to his will, and with an internal scream which would drown the astropathic choir he has come to destroy, his body heaves the aircraft slowly into level flight, and even more, with a spine screaming at him to stop - even that which could take an impact to kill several normal men - he disobeys, and manages to line up the nose on the Tower of Echoes. It is not certain. It is not a given thing he will make it, but with a grim satisfaction, he sees the river rear up at him, the Wasp plunges to her deep and final grave, and with a shudder which would ring the halls of a Titan war machine, Obi is hurled from his feet, cast into the roof of the aircraft as it's belly thunders into a curtain wall at a skipper-angle, and ploughs into the river with a drenching thunder of displaced water and silt as the bullet-vessel nosedives into the bottom. Yet the peril is not finished. He is safe, but his comrades may drown. He must call once more upon his genewrought body, for the landing is finished, but the mission is only just begun.

Step three of plasma repaint I don't appear to have the Sotek Green I wanted for the bodies of the flies in my paint selection (I have way too many paints, how has that not happened?) so a trip to a local hobby store will be happening next Monday.

This is true, in particular the Blood Claws. Their style of amour removes some of the plates and knee rims, looks smoother and much better than regular MKX. Should have made it the standard MKX look. Particularly with the MKVII style faceplate.

I finally took the time to work on my 12 MoH vow. Let's welcome two new members of Schaeffer's Last Chancers : Rocket Girl : And Warrior Woman :

Worth it.

This is intresting idea. Which kinda attack bike would be best concept? Sidecar version? Tandem kinda? Turret on back? One marine with servitor turret? Alot possibilities really, but we know GW propably makes something with current outriders kit that connects to it

So had them done for nearly a week but been procrastinating again on posting them up. I declare my first vow from Combat Patrol complete: Not entirely happy but I've hardly painted in months so guess beggards can't be choosers. Individual photos can be found in my WIP Log... when I get around to updating it. Anyway, onto the next bit that, if I was keeping to the standard I set myself, I should have done a week ago; I, Brother Argent, vow to complete 3x Von Ryann's Leapers by Months end.