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I really enjoy both RG where I started, and DA, and reading the Horus Heresay books (I am about a quarter thru the 54 books on my kindle) is just reinforcing that. I went with DA for 9th edition, with a focus on tourney play, and while I acknowledge SM arent in a great place competitively, there are some options out there, and if nothing else, if I can master DA (and maybe RG) as a faction, in spite of never threatening top tables till the meta shifts, that will make for some fun games, and winnable ones at that often enough. With the loss of TTL as a secondary, and changes to Stubborn Defiance...my list theorycrafting has gone into overdrive while I am deployed here to a lovely spot in Europe. But no games played sadly lol. Im going to squeeze in a few via TTS here, and get my Army tweaked to reflect this list below but wanted some feedback, as Im not sure it is capable enough just yet. Patrol (-2 CP) - NFORG slot - Voidsmen x6 (for RND, backfield OBJ or screens) - Lazarus (for the 5++ vs MW and another RRHR1 bubble) - Infiltrators x8 with a helix (for a surprisingly long last stubborn defiance option with smokescreen as an option, and can be pulled up via the guerilla tactics for more RND access) - RW Apothecary (-1 CP) Chief, Selfless Healer - Multi Melta Attack Bike - Multi Melta Land Speeder - Eliminators with bolt carbine, las fusil - Eradicators x6 with HMR, MM that get combat squadded. DeathWing Vanguard (0 CP after refund) - Azrael, Warlord no trait - Interogator Chaplain in TDA (-1 CP) Chief, Wise orator - Relic Terms x5, LC, combi bolter, reaper cannon - Relic Terms x5, same deal - Relic Terms x10, same deal but seargent has the no cost power sword (will prob do same in other squads), and one guy has a chain fist due to left over points. ---------~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So my expectation here is to take stubborn defiance on almost all maps, minus the one that denies infiltration (and maybe even then, but it is a five point swing for missing that first turn!). RND with the voidsmen (6 so they auto pass), a squad of relics or a pulled up infiltrator in the second enemy quarter, or where that isnt practical map wise, RTB when it is the better option. With the new write up for Stubborn Defiance, it seems like an OBSEC termie unit can march up and replace the infiltrators, freeing up some options. I have the bike, speeder for added MM shots, speed, and as cheap feeder units for oath of moment (if I dont see a better third option). One jets up to claim center and take a pop shot while the other hides. It likely dies, rinse and repeat. All while some termies march up the center. The 10 man gets combat squadded into a deepstrik package with the better melee options, and the other five are double reaper cannon (good for defending an SD objective etc). I place one to two relic squads into deepstrik with the chaplain, who will use commanding oratory upon arrival to autopass canticle of hate for the charge bonus. Az has one wing, the side of the board with infils (to give them 4++ vs ranged), a combat squaded half of eradicators and the eliminators. Laz is on the other side (and these two wings are intended to be close so there is some overlap during any push up the board) giving more of the MW bubble to the relics on that side or pressing center/midboard. Erads are the only potential targets for transhuman. Infils rely on hiding, smokescreen, helix and their plussed up number to last. Elims rely on their fire and fade mechanic, cloaks on terrain, and range to be durable. Thoughts? Critiques? Previously lists included the anti infantry Talonmaster with arbiters gaze, but I swapped it to increase my terminator count. List should start with 4cp, with one very often being spent on voidsmen in strat reserve for RND (or one of the eradicators as an "arrive and pop someone," threat) so I am used to starting with 3cp in actual practice.