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Hi all, this is my first post and I am looking for some advice/critiques of some lists. I'm creating two VIII Legion lists for the Horus Heresy Narrative Event at the Las Vegas Open in 2024. Before I jump into the lists I will explain some of the specific rules for the event to better help with some of the oddities from normal list building. 1. Praetor Consul: When purchasing a Praetor for a Legion you may, in lieu of a paragon blade, pay the Consul upgrade cost from the Consul Options available to Legion Centurions. The cost is the same as the Consul upgrade and will provide your Praetor with all of the benefits/limitations that Consul upgrade is associated with - excluding any Consul rules that prevent the Consul from being the Warlord. 2. List Size and Construction: Day 1 = 2,500 pts., Day 2 = 2,000 pts.. Day 2's list must use unit entries from Day 1. You do not have to take every unit entry and they can be modified (size, wargear etc.), but you cannot take more or different unit entries than was included in your Day 1 list. 3. Forbidden: Primarchs, Unique Characters, Titans, and/or Drop Pods. The Idea I wanted to create a force based on a proto-Raptor Cult that used the Age of Darkness box (primarily the 40 infantry), and maximised on the VIII Legion's traits (fear mechanics, pinning and out-numbering). The Lore in General Inductii are brought into the unit and those that survive/thrive in close combat are elevated to Assualt Legionaries, those less predisposed are relegated to Reconnaisance. The Assault Legionaries that excel are selected to become Chosen which is the begining of a Raptor Cult. Note: I've used Inductii over regular Despoilers because I think their rules are really thematic and the breaching 6+ is nice. I also wanted to include Night Raptors instead of Assault Squads, but they cost too many points and didn't really make for a well-rounded force. The Lists Day 1 List (2,500 pts): Night Lords - Allegience: Traitors Rite of War: Terror Assault HQ Praetor (190 pts.) - Warlord: Flaymaster - Pair of Lightning Claws - Warhawk Jump Pack - Chaplain Consul Upgrade Praetor's Retinue: Command Squad with Warhawk Jump Packs (294 pts.) - 7x Chosen (2x Power Fist, 1 with Combat Shield + 3x Paired Lightning Claws, 1 with Legion Standard + 1x Charnabal Sabre + 1x Chainsword) Centurion: Librarian (125 pts.) - Force Axe - Warhawk Jump Pack - Psychic Discipline: Telepathy Centurion: Master of Signals (95 pts.) - No upgrades ELITES 2x Contemptor Dreadnought (180 pts. ea.) - Gravis Melta Cannon and Gravis Power Fist with Combi-Bolter on ea. TROOPS 2x Assault Squad (165 pts. ea.) - 10x Legionaries (Sergeant with Artificer Armour and Chainsword, 2x Power Lance) in both squads 2x Despoiler Squad - Inductii (200 pts. ea.) - 19x Despoilers (Legion Vexilla) in both squads 1x Reconnaissance Squad - A (140 pts.) - 5x Legionaries (4x Nemesis Bolters + Preysight) 1x Reconnaissance Squad - B (135 pts.) - 5x Legionaries (5x Nemesis Bolters) FAST ATTACK 2x Proteus Land Speeder (70 pts. ea.) - 1x Graviton Gun on ea. HEAVY SUPPORT 2x Vindicators in a Squadron (290 pts. total) - Magna Laser Destroyer and Dozer Blade on ea. + Preysight Day 2 List (2,000 pts.): Night Lords - Allegience: Traitors Rite of War: Terror Assault HQ Praetor (190 pts.) - Warlord: Flaymaster - Pair of Lightning Claws - Warhawk Jump Pack - Chaplain Consul Upgrade Praetor's Retinue: Command Squad with Warhawk Jump Packs (294 pts.) - 5x Chosen (1x Power Fist with Combat Shield + 3x Paired Lightning Claws, 1 with Legion Standard + 1x Chainsword with Combat Shield) Centurion: Librarian (125 pts.) - Force Axe - Warhawk Jump Pack - Psychic Discipline: Telepathy Centurion: Master of Signals (95 pts.) - No upgrades ELITES 1x Contemptor Dreadnought (180 pts.) - Gravis Melta Cannon and Gravis Power Fist with Combi-Bolter TROOPS 1x Assault Squad - A (165 pts.) - 10x Legionaries (Sergeant with Artificer Armour and Chainsword, 2x Power Lance) 1x Assualt Squad - B (160 pts.) - 10x Legionaries (Sergeant with Artificer Armour and Chainsword, 1x Power Lance) 2x Despoiler Squad - Inductii (150 pts. ea.) - 14x Despoilers (Legion Vexilla) in both squads 1x Reconnaissance Squad - A (140 pts.) - 5x Legionaries (4x Nemesis Bolters + Preysight) 1x Reconnaissance Squad - B (135 pts.) - 5x Legionaries (5x Nemesis Bolters) HEAVY SUPPORT 2x Vindicators in a Squadron (290 pts. total) - Magna Laser Destroyer and Dozer Blade on ea. + Preysight The Plan - Flexible deployment options with potential to deepstrike and pin, supported by the Master of Signals. Deepstrike all or nothinig (Praetor+Retinue, Assault Squads+Librarian, and Proteus Land Speeders). - Recon Squads hold deployment zone objectives and target enemy leaders to cause pinning. Master of Signals is attached to Recon Squad - B to give the shooting boost. Master of Signals is also able to assist a morale roll each turn (will probably be the LD 7 Despoilers). - Despoiler Squads and Contemptors move up the board together. Despoilers go for objectives with secondary task to tarpit 2+ units. Contemptors target vehicles > WS4 2+ > dreads. - Vindicators remain outside of 24" and target vehicles > dreads > WS5 2+. - Assault Squads target critical WS4 3+ units (Heavy Support Squads), assisted by Librarian to shut down overwatch and Land Speeders to reduce WS. After this they will grab objectives or finish off damaged units. - Land Speeders reduce WS (concussive) > vehicles > absorb overwatch. - Praetor and retinue initially target weaker units to build Fear 2/3 bubble then use movement to pile into other combat (WS5 3+ > WS4 3+ > 2+). Primary focus of 3+ due to the Lightning Claws, but also included Power Fists for Artificer Sergeants or clean up smaller 2+ units. Conclusion I havn't had much of a chance to play HH 2.0, so does anything leap out at those with more experience? My questions are: 1. Is there enough pinning? If not, what would you substitute? 2. Between picking my fights with Jump Packs and mass amounts of breaching/rending will this be enough to deal with Legion Specific Terminators (WS5 2+)? 3. Should my Praetor have a Thunder Hammer? This seems to be the optimal build, but is really expensive and the Lightning Claws seem in-line with the Raptor aesthetic. 4. Are the Land Speeders with Grav. Guns a dumb idea? 5. Does the Chaplain upgrade on the Praetor seem worth it (Noting his retinue and him are only 8/6 models), or should the 35 points be used elsewhere? 6. Is there too many moving pieces, should I instead invest more heavily in a smaller number of units? Thanks in advance for any feedback.