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I am slowly getting back into 40K. The release of 8th grabbed my attention and the first few small games were fun and quick. The changes to the game has sped it up and enlivened the feel to the game. Some things are catching me out, such as the way modifiers interact with re-rolls, mortal wounds versus special saves taken to ignore wounds and the plethora of unique rules and costings. So this thread is meant to be something of a blog, soapbox and chat group to talk about my experiences and thoughts about the Unforgiven. Fluff changes: The new book contained some difficult to swallow changes, I am not a fan of primaris marines so was especially wary about how necessary GW had made them. I was pleasantly surprised to realise though that pretty much all of the new and unfamiliar units are simply another option. My lists look, feel and play remarkably similar to my old lists and this is a comforting surprise. They operate on the table quite differently because of how some of the changes affect the units. The changes to movement and deep striking keeps catching me out but I really like the impact it has on how movement and positioning matter. I can't say I'm a huge fan of bubble wrapping to counter enemy reserves and fast flankers but it definitely adds a much greater give & take aspect to piece trading. Being able to disengage from combats by falling back has so far proven one of the most influential changes to my games. Points or Power levels: I like power levels. Point costs and values are still probably the more balanced way to play but there is something nice about writing a list where you can put the list together in just a couple of minutes because you just have to worry about the units and not individual wargear. I go to a couple of clubs and at one of them power levels are the default whereas the other prefers to use points. At this stage I am happy with either as each is proving advantageous for list creation/exploitation. My most recent pair of games used each. A small 50 power game to introduce someone to the new system and a 1500pt game against the newest shiny the Adeptus Custodes. 50 Power list Asmodai Lieutenant with storm bolter & power sword Min tactical squad with plasma pistol & plasmagun Min tactical squad with plasma pistol & plasmagun Full tactical squad with power sword, meltagun and lascannon Venerable Dreadnought with assault cannon Company champion Apothecary 2x Ravenwing attack bikes with multimeltas This list was pitted against Ahriman and a Rubric force of mostly Thousand sons (using the index list) with a forgefiend for some ranged oomph! The game used open war cards which are an interesting if very unpredictable way to play. The game itself was very fast paced with our deployment allowing both forces to deploy close to each other and objective scoring required aggressive manoeuvring. With the core of the Dark angel force deployed in the centre of the board and the Thousand sons wanting to get close so as to make the most of their rapid-fire and flamer weapons (and psychic powers) gambled on being able to wipe out the marines quickly. A big punch-up in the centre wiped out the sorcerer's minions and dragged them forward in front of the remaining fodder leaving them victim to the multimeltas of the ravenwing. Honour to the venerable dreadnought who not only led the charge to engage and slaughter the bulk of the rubric marines as well as ripped the forgefiend. 1500pt list Azrael Asmodai Lt with power sword and storm bolter Apothecary Company champion (eye of the unseen) 5x company veterans each with a storm bolter, 1 with a storm shield, 3 power swords, 1 power maul. Ravenwing apothecary 5 marines with plasma pistol and plasmagun 5 marines with plasma pistol and plasmagun 10 marines with power sword 10 marines with power sword 5 devastators with 3 missile launchers and 1 lascannon rhino with 2x storm bolters Ravenwing darkshroud with heavy bolter This list had to face the might of the Adeptus Custodes and I am in some ways grateful that my opponent was very limited in his options. His list featured the new special character, a second HQ, 3 five strong squads of custodes (1 squad with halberds and 2 with swords and storm shields) plus 2 venerable contemptor dreadnoughts. I can confidently say that trying to kill the new custodes is an arduous task without the right tools. Fortunately, plasma is probably one of the best options and weapons from the dark age helps inordinately. As does Azrael's aura bubbles of re-rolls and invulnerable saves. I was also helped that the scenario was from the rulebook (secure and control) which meant my opponent initially left one of his squads guarding his objective, effectively removing them from the game for most of it. I want to take time to give special mention to the Company veterans who saved Azrael's life because of the honour guard rule, dealt out impressive firepower with those stormbolters and respectable melee clout but man of the match was the storm shield guy who tanked every hit the custodes assigned to his unit. With Azrael and Asmodai nearby at all times they were very impressive and will definitely be fielding them again. Equipped this way they weren't even very expensive. The near horde of marines may not have been the biggest contributors (although the plasma weapons provided a steady stream of multi-damage firepower) and I was glad to have them. The devastators proved helpful for quick deletion of any model that did manage to fail it's save and the darkshroud was helpful in lessening the impact of the enemies guns. (Particularly because the dreadnoughts also had to contend with the mod for moving and firing heavy weapons. The following are some more detailed thoughts about some of the units I've been using. Apothecaries: These have fast become a staple of my lists and with the discovery of how well veterans can protect out characters when they get embroiled in combats I am increasingly enamoured of them. Healing a few wounds on a character is great but bringing a member of a unit back to the fight can be game changing. The basic apothecary is good because he's cheap, innocuous and rarely appears worth the effort to attack. The ravenwing apothecary however can contribute quite substantially thanks to his plasma talon and the mobility afforded by his bike. He keeps impressing me but the risk of not doing anything with his guns if I try to bring a model back does make him more focused on healing wounded heroes. Company champion: I've been giving him the relic "Eye of the unseen" to ensure he goes before enemy characters and the extra mod to enemy leadership has come into play in a couple of other games. Mostly though I regard him as just an amazing bargain for what you get. Azrael and Asmodai make him more survivable and threatening with his blade of caliban too so he has so far proven a very worthwhile addition to the army. Company veterans: In the last book my head was alway seething with ideas for how I'd like to field these guys but I rarely if ever put them on the table. Considering their versatility and low base cost I am going to be experimenting and sticking them in lists a lot more now. I am not sure about precisely how they body guard rule works against weapons with damage over 1 since it says the roll to intercept the hit comes after the character has lost a wound so currently I'm working around the assumption that it applies after damage. (So if I fail a save on Azrael against a damage 3 weapon I would then make 3 rolls to pass the damage on to the veterans. Potentially resulting in 3 mortal wounds on the veteran squad.) This can attrition the squad down very quickly so I doubt I will ever spend too many points on every member of the unit, however as a means of keeping our characters alive that little bit longer I feel this unit is now very valuable indeed. Hopefully in the near future I will be adding some more hobby related content as I get back into painting figures. Currently on the painting table are some Deathwing knights and the company veterans I have talked about in this first post.