Index Astartes: Ice Lords (Mk II)

[Octavulg]

This will have to be brief, since I meant to do a longer post about it earlier and the medium one I was writing today just evaporated when I hit the wrong key (grr).

 

I think my life can be abbreviated to that. ^_^

 

Briefly, I really like the nice in-game justification you've come up with for your real-world mixed Terminators.

 

Which one? There's two. :D The political faction one or the viositations of the Primarch one?

 

And I really, REALLY like the part about one company staying on the planet delving around in the Underdark cavern systems. Dungeon crawling in power armor = AWESOME. Getting to play Space Hulk-type missions on your Chapter's own homeworld is even more awesome.

 

You have touched upon the real motivation behind my love of Terminator armor and why there's a complex full of Genestealers under the monastery - I love me some Space Hulk. As in a lot more than 40K proper. ;)

 

And anytime someone does repentant Fallen (assuming I am reading the current concept correctly) and does them well is just icing on the cake. Kudos!

 

Indeedity you are.

 

Thoughts on the more recent revised version, which removes some of the craziness in favor of a more recent founding and more Genestealers?

[flintlocklaser]

Both justifications I guess - the visions are cool, but the political faction stuff is a nice touch. Good to see an IA that covers the concept that a group of 1000 supermen wired for nothing but conflict might actually (gasp!) disagree with each other from time to time! And I am all in favor of your Space Hulk stuff. I never bought it back in the day, and I am still kicking myself for it. One of the first things I want to do when I get my BTs all painted up is to do that Space Hulk mock-up thing GW used to have on their website (probably gone now in their big reorganization, more's the pity).

 

As for the recut, using the more recent founding probably makes it simpler, as in touching on less major in-universe stuff, while I think it still covers all the bases you're tying to cover. And anything at all that adds up to more Genestealers is good. Long before I ever purchased any 40k stuff, back when I was just reading the books on the hobby store racks while shopping for Cyberpunk 2020 rpg material, the Genestealers have been my favorite 40k baddy. Are you thinking about using any of the semi-abandonded (or at least is seems like GW is abandoning it) Genestealer Cult concepts? That was what made them so super-creepy and awesome to me back in the old days, that combination of steel-hard inhuman killing beast and corrupted family loyalty.

[Octavulg]

Both justifications I guess - the visions are cool, but the political faction stuff is a nice touch. Good to see an IA that covers the concept that a group of 1000 supermen wired for nothing but conflict might actually (gasp!) disagree with each other from time to time!

 

I was pondering the inclusion of full-on debate on courses of action, but decided that's a bit too much. The Bronze Prophets will probably be even more contentious with each other, though, so I get to play with the concept eventually. Soon. Soon...

 

Are you thinking about using any of the semi-abandonded (or at least is seems like GW is abandoning it) Genestealer Cult concepts? That was what made them so super-creepy and awesome to me back in the old days, that combination of steel-hard inhuman killing beast and corrupted family loyalty.

 

Genestealer Cults are indeed incredibly wonderfully gloriously stupendously wonderful. I will probably include some worries/hints that a Cult may be growing in the city, but the IA's pretty busy as it is. B)

 

Still, including sneaky Genestealer Cults is always worthwhile. :lol:

[superghostrider]

The sky cities were a great idea and I applaud you for that.

 

Don't. I probably stole it from somewhere. :lol:

What other "bad luck" is due to befall the chapter? Just a few things to comment on:

 

I hope to get around to hinting that there's something nasty under all the ice. Really nasty. A kind of nasty I don't think has actually been done, which makes me happy.

 

 

Maybe an underground Nec tomb? Thought about a chapter or homeworld where this happened

[Octavulg]

Maybe an underground Nec tomb? Thought about a chapter or homeworld where this happened

 

Current plan is Dark Age of Technology AI. Necrons are so passe.

 

* * *

 

There's new, exciting, less crazy stuff! Rip it to shreds, boys (and theoretical girls)!

[Darrell]

I can't find my blasted notebook, so I couldn't record my thoughts as I went along like I usually do. Hopefully I can still address the IA effectively enough. I read through the thread to get an idea of what some of your concepts are, so I'll try not to repeat anything that's already been said. It is late though, so if I slip you'll have to forgive me.

 

If I have it right, this is essentially three Fallen getting control of a Dark Angels successor? It's a neat idea with some potential, but I'm curious to know how it would work. How did the Fallen manage to locate the ship and know what its purpose was? Was it just a coincidence? I assume foundings aren't broadcast on the evening news, so I'd want to know how they managed to pull this move off. Overpowering a Space Marine vessel and the Astartes inside, even if it was just a squad of ten, would still be a pretty tough move for three Fallen. It's not necessary information for the IA, but I'd still be curious to know about how this happened.

 

A relatively small issue, but you make it sound like the Ice Lords had already picked a homeworld before they left. I assume Taramant was responsible for suggesting it? If they knew ahead of time what the world would be, why didn't he just name the Chapter before they left? Was he going for more dramatic effect by naming the Chapter once they got to the planet?

 

Considering the state of technology in the Imperium, I would expect floating cities to be a big interest to the Mechanicus. The article mentions tech-priests being distracted by geological surveys, but I can't help thinking that most priests would much rather figure out how a city is managing to float in the air compared to studying wind speed near the surface. My initial reaction is that the cities are a bit too arcane given the Imperium's current technological knowledge, but if you keep them I'd elaborate more on surveys sent to inspect these wondrous creations. I'm sure Mechanicus survey teams arrive pretty regularly, which could perhaps give your Chapter a certain relationship with the Mechanicus. If the goal of the Fallen is to try to redeem himself, making sure he has allies in the AM couldn't hurt.

 

Why did the Chapter choose the least populated city as a base, if they want to mingle with the mortals to remind themselves what they're fighting for? Was it to make sure they had room for a monastery, or did they want to make sure they made as small an impact as possible? I also assume there aren't too many holy days for the Chapter? Sending out half the Chapter to mingle with the people once a month would probably be a bit much. I'd perhaps make it a specific, annual holy day instead of every holy day? Being Astartes, I'm sure they have a few. Also, have they continued this tradition since the city crashed? It's not clear how much time has passed between then and now, so an update on their relationship with the mortals would offer some nice insight. How is the Chapter handling the people now that their homes are in shambles? Do they blame the Chapter for what has happened (I'm sure at least some do)? Is maintaining a relationship with them still an important tenant?

 

I don't understand why the Chapter called off the hunt for the genestealers. When they discover the Ice Caves, the Master decides there's too much time involved after seven days, but at that point they had already spent months trying to clear them out. I would think that it would be a matter of pride for the Astartes; this is their homeworld we're talking about, and it's infested by filthy xenos! Not to mention these xenos could possibly bring a hive fleet down on their heads if it's not dealt with. I'd perhaps go into more detail about what the Chapter is doing now to combat these genestealers. You should also talk about how they're handling the other cities--what if they're infected, too? If the genestealers were somehow responsible for the city's failure (And the presence of one happening so soon after the other would hint there's a connection), the other cities might be about to plunge into the ground as well. What are the Ice Lords doing about that, if anything?

 

The IA doesn't make it immediately clear that these terminator suits aren't from the Ice Lords themselves. I would try to make it more apparent that these do not belong to the Chapter and are strangely unidentified, as the way it's worded right now had me thinking they found the remains of the Ice Lords' terminators deployed earlier. Elsewhere in the thread you said you were thinking of them finding about 100 suits of terminator armor? Even if they went missing during the period of the Legions, that is a harsh blow. One hundred dead Astartes in an engagement would be epic, but one hundred dead Astartes in terminator armor would at least warrant some searching. Does it need to be that many suits? I would think something more reasonable, like say fifteen, would slip more easily under the radar and is still quite a find. Those TDA suits are relics, extremely difficult to replace, and finding fifteen nicely preserved under your feet is some serious good fortune.

 

I can't imagine the Lords being proud to wear the terminator armor of another Chapter. With the nature of their planet, I would assume the bodies would be relatively well-preserved and possibly identifiable. If there's a constant Adeptus Mechanicus presence around (And with floating cities, I'm sure there would be), they could probably cross-check the records of the equipment against their databases to try and identify the Chapter. If they pre-date the Heresy, there's only so many possibilities. However, the question would be whether or not the Ice Lords would try to return the bodies and armor to their previous Chapters. Again, with a Mechanicus presence on hand, it's possible they might be able to pull strings and get the armor redecorated in their scheme. However, if they care enough to try and keep the original iconography, it would seem to me that they would care enough to see the armor returned. If they were trying to return it, I can't see them using it in battle; what would happen if the suits got destroyed? That would be an embarrassing conversation to have with a Chapter Master! "Yeah, uh, we found those terminator suits you've been missing for ten thousand years. But, uhm, Bob decided he wanted to try it out and it turns out that terminator armor is pretty heavy so when he went walking on this frozen lake..."

 

The separate factions within the Chapter is a nice touch, but you drop the native wolves in out of nowhere. You should definitely describe the homeworld a bit sooner, as I had been under the impression the planet was an inhospitable, freezing, desolate wasteland. Then we hear about genestealers and big packs of wolves that are wandering around. Tell us a bit more about what kind of life manages to survive and a bit about the geography. Is it just a big, perfectly round snowball orbiting its star? It also begs the question of how the people of the city are adapting to being on the surface instead of high in the air, especially if many of their support systems are no longer functioning.

 

You say the Ice Lords are beginning to adapt formations similar to the Deathwing, then proceed to say none of the unorthodox organizations of the Dark Angels are present. How similar are the formations currently being used by the Ice Lords?

 

I think the article is, overall, lacking some good meat to latch onto. The most fascinating part about the Chapter is the city it lives on, and the fact that they're sitting on a terminator mine. Exploring the differences of the Knights and Wolves, and the effect the split has on the Chapter as a whole, might be a good place to start. Contrasting present mortal relations to previous ones might also give some more depth. There's a lot going on in terms of a mystery about the TDA suits, the floating cities and some Fallen trying to redeem themselves but those are akin to whisps of smoke in a room. There needs to be some furniture and whatnot in the room, too! It's an interesting concept you have, but it needs some handlebars for the reader to hold onto while they're riding along.

[Octavulg]

I can't find my blasted notebook, so I couldn't record my thoughts as I went along like I usually do. Hopefully I can still address the IA effectively enough. I read through the thread to get an idea of what some of your concepts are, so I'll try not to repeat anything that's already been said. It is late though, so if I slip you'll have to forgive me.

 

Since I've tried to address stuff that's already been said, you saying it again means that I've failed, n'est-ce pas?

 

Also, use WordPad. Works for me.

 

If I have it right, this is essentially three Fallen getting control of a Dark Angels successor?

 

More or less. They're relatively pro-Imperial Fallen - they just hate Jonson's guts. And who can blame them?

 

How did the Fallen manage to locate the ship and know what its purpose was? Was it just a coincidence? I assume foundings aren't broadcast on the evening news, so I'd want to know how they managed to pull this move off.

 

Intercepted message? Sheer luck and coincidence? The Librarian saw it in a vision?

 

Whichever of those you like best is the answer.

 

Overpowering a Space Marine vessel and the Astartes inside, even if it was just a squad of ten, would still be a pretty tough move for three Fallen. It's not necessary information for the IA, but I'd still be curious to know about how this happened.

 

Yeah, explaining it in the IA proper would rather destroy some of the fun.

 

There are three obvious explanations for how the Fallen might take out the command cadre. A ) They started with more Fallen than they ended up with. B ) They were pirate lords, who used their pirates as cannon fodder (that's the most likely). C ) Some combination of one of the first two and "they're just that good."

 

A relatively small issue, but you make it sound like the Ice Lords had already picked a homeworld before they left. I assume Taramant was responsible for suggesting it?

 

Personally, I've always been under the impression that marine home worlds were assigned to the marines (at least sometimes). Otherwise, the revokation and regranting of the home worlds in the Badab War is a little odd. Prevents the marines popping up next to the best world in the Sector and going "Mine!" As so many DIY chapters are wont to do, come to that...:)

 

I know it's somewhat against established precedent, but I've never found anything to directly contradict it.

 

If they knew ahead of time what the world would be, why didn't he just name the Chapter before they left? Was he going for more dramatic effect by naming the Chapter once they got to the planet?

 

He was meditating on the name with the Emperor's Tarot, incense and all that stuff - the standard deal. Or he has a well-developed sense of the dramatic. Whichever.

 

And remember, it's not named for the world. It's named for the reasons he said. The world is just coincidence. Like Fenris. Or Prospero. :yes:

 

My initial reaction is that the cities are a bit too arcane given the Imperium's current technological knowledge, but if you keep them I'd elaborate more on surveys sent to inspect these wondrous creations. I'm sure Mechanicus survey teams arrive pretty regularly, which could perhaps give your Chapter a certain relationship with the Mechanicus. If the goal of the Fallen is to try to redeem himself, making sure he has allies in the AM couldn't hurt.

 

Good point. The AM are tenacious little devils. I suspect they might not show up as regularly as they once did, but I'm sure some enterprising young fella with everything to prove pops up every so often, convinced he holds the key to understanding them.

 

Why did the Chapter choose the least populated city as a base, if they want to mingle with the mortals to remind themselves what they're fighting for?

 

Good point. Probably for ease of fortification and minimization of collateral damage should they be attacked. Sticking yourself in the largest city on the planet is a little hard on the civilians if your homeworld is attacked.

 

I'll mention something about small Chapterhouses in the other cities. Not, and I want to be sure you note this, Chapter Keeps. ;)

 

I also assume there aren't too many holy days for the Chapter? Sending out half the Chapter to mingle with the people once a month would probably be a bit much.

 

Some days, to paraphrase Terry Pratchett, are more holy than others.

 

I will elaborate on just what is considered holy enough. I cut and pasted that bit from the last IA, so am no longer as familiar with it as I used to be.

 

I'd perhaps make it a specific, annual holy day instead of every holy day? Being Astartes, I'm sure they have a few.

 

Indeed. Limiting the mingling to Ascension Day seems like not a bad idea. On the other hand, they are supposed to get to know the people...perhaps once every three months or so...

 

Do they blame the Chapter for what has happened (I'm sure at least some do)? Is maintaining a relationship with them still an important tenant?

 

Tenet. Tenants are people who rent from landownders. You and Sigismund both do that. :ph34r:

 

And probably, and yes. I must elaborate further in homeworld and current events.

 

I would think that it would be a matter of pride for the Astartes; this is their homeworld we're talking about,

 

True. OTOH, there's outside duties to contend with. The Imperium is more important than their pride.

 

Committing a company to cleansing them, full time, seems like a fairly hefty devotion of strength. Besides, the experiences of the Blood Angels inside...whatever Hulk that was have taught us that Terminators are the best things for tunnel clearing - and they don't have that many Terminators. They have a lot, but devoting them all to clearing the tunnels 100% of the time is a bit of a misuse of resources. They could be off killing traitors!

 

and it's infested by filthy xenos! Not to mention these xenos could possibly bring a hive fleet down on their heads if it's not dealt with.

 

Not sure they'd know that, but damn, I was forgetting that bit. I may move away from D.A.o.T AI and back toward "Ancient Genestealer Primarch so powerful he doesn't get bothered by pesky little Hive Fleets".

 

You should also talk about how they're handling the other cities--what if they're infected, too?

 

Well, they are several miles up. There'll be some cursory checks, of course, but if a couple of miles can't save you from the Genestealers...

 

If the genestealers were somehow responsible for the city's failure (And the presence of one happening so soon after the other would hint there's a connection), the other cities might be about to plunge into the ground as well. What are the Ice Lords doing about that, if anything?

 

Also good point. Didn't really realize the suggestion of the connection there. I just like Genestealers. B)

 

Elsewhere in the thread you said you were thinking of them finding about 100 suits of terminator armor? Even if they went missing during the period of the Legions, that is a harsh blow. One hundred dead Astartes in an engagement would be epic, but one hundred dead Astartes in terminator armor would at least warrant some searching. Does it need to be that many suits?

 

Do you know how many Terminator models I own? I don't. I stopped counting after 100. Best estimate is approximately 120.

 

They don't exactly need that many, but prolonged operations under the ice against Genestealers would seem to require a lot. And even if I split all my Terminators exactly between my DIY chapters (which I can't)...:S

 

So this is a justification for a gaming/modelling practice. Shameful, but there you go.

 

Also, the background for the lost Terminators is that they're (just barely) pre-heresy. Maybe they're Lunar Wolves. Or World Eaters. No one would likely come looking for them in the midst of all that chaos, and everyone who knew about them might well be dead by the end of it. And the Imperium has lousy records.

 

However, if they care enough to try and keep the original iconography, it would seem to me that they would care enough to see the armor returned.

 

Oh, damn, is that bit still in there? That's a relic of when the suits were ex-DA and ex-SW. I shall excise that forthwith.

 

If they were trying to return it, I can't see them using it in battle; what would happen if the suits got destroyed? That would be an embarrassing conversation to have with a Chapter Master! "Yeah, uh, we found those terminator suits you've been missing for ten thousand years. But, uhm, Bob decided he wanted to try it out and it turns out that terminator armor is pretty heavy so when he went walking on this frozen lake..."

 

Indeed. The details behind the fate of the Terminator armor will be reconsidered. Especially the bit with the Ad. Mech. possibly checking. Perhaps they give the A.M. a genetic sample, the A.M. goes off, come back grim-faced and declare that "No, you can keep those. Don't ask for details."

 

The separate factions within the Chapter is a nice touch, but you drop the native wolves in out of nowhere. You should definitely describe the homeworld a bit sooner, as I had been under the impression the planet was an inhospitable, freezing, desolate wasteland. Then we hear about genestealers and big packs of wolves that are wandering around. Tell us a bit more about what kind of life manages to survive and a bit about the geography. Is it just a big, perfectly round snowball orbiting its star? It also begs the question of how the people of the city are adapting to being on the surface instead of high in the air, especially if many of their support systems are no longer functioning.

 

Indeed. I shall explore that further. I may have the Wolves be discovered on the fall to the planet - would seem moderately plausible and add even more "Sign of the Emperor! Heed it or be damned!".

 

You say the Ice Lords are beginning to adapt formations similar to the Deathwing, then proceed to say none of the unorthodox organizations of the Dark Angels are present. How similar are the formations currently being used by the Ice Lords?

 

I think I'll go with tactics, rather than formation, there. They're not organized like the Deathwing, but they do use many of their tactics since they found a walking ton of Terminator armor and nobody else really does large-scale deployment of them any more. Some Ultramarine tactics, too, of course - Invictus' boys deployed like that sometimes...

 

I think the article is, overall, lacking some good meat to latch onto. The most fascinating part about the Chapter is the city it lives on, and the fact that they're sitting on a terminator mine.

 

To be fair, a Terminator mine is pretty fascinating. That's some steep competition. :)

 

There's a lot going on in terms of a mystery about the TDA suits, the floating cities and some Fallen trying to redeem themselves but those are akin to whisps of smoke in a room. There needs to be some furniture and whatnot in the room, too! It's an interesting concept you have, but it needs some handlebars for the reader to hold onto while they're riding along.

 

Way to mix the metaphors like candy in a bingo-roller.

 

Anyway, I shall definitely be elaborating on the points you've mentioned. More ideological conflict! More juicy details about civilians! More fear of the ravening Genestealer hordes!

 

Next time...

[maniclurker]

Their Chapter Master (and the first one) is a Librarian. Interesting....

 

Wrong... Soul Drinkers. 'Nuff said.

 

Also, why do people feel compelled to make 50 million quotes in 1 post?

That's the opposite of winning...

[Octavulg]

Wrong... Soul Drinkers. 'Nuff said.

 

Why are you replying to a post that's...yup, just under three months old?

 

And it theoretically could still be interesting, since I'm not doing it because the Soul Drinkers did it. In fact, I wasn't aware their first Chapter Master was a Librarian at all.

 

Anyway, Taramant no longer IS a psyker, so it's a bit moot.

 

Also, why do people feel compelled to make 50 million quotes in 1 post?

That's the opposite of winning...

 

It provides context. Everybody loves context.

[Hubernator]

Wrong... Soul Drinkers. 'Nuff said.

 

Why are you replying to a post that's...yup, just under three months old?

Why not? There's no law against it... or is there?? :P

 

Also, why do people feel compelled to make 50 million quotes in 1 post?

That's the opposite of winning...

 

It provides context. Everybody loves context.

I don't B) I prefer reading IA's than all the long-winded comments that follow... unless it's my IA of course :tu:

[Octavulg]

Why not? There's no law against it... or is there?? msn-wink.gif

 

It's generally unwise, since there's all kinds of things which might have changed about the IA or the post in question in the interim.

 

Also, the board frowns upon it.

 

I don't tongue.gif I prefer reading IA's than all the long-winded comments that follow... unless it's my IA of course biggrin.gif

 

Quoting from what you're replying to lets people reading it understand exactly what you're talking about.

 

That's context. Context is good. Always.

 

EDIT: Also, since people may end up roaming about the thread again, the IA itself has been updated. There's a beliefs section now! Plus other stuff!

[Lysimachus]

Y’know I like this a lot, lots of good plot ideas

 

However, that being said, I think that in itself could be a bit of a problem too

 

The Fallen commander, the floating cities, the differing populace with the resulting schism within the Chapter, the TDA in the ice, the threat of genestealers and (I’m not sure if you’re still doing this bit) the threat of something worse (AdMech stuff)

 

All good ideas but they could be the basis for 2 or even 3 good IAs. IMHO what your work lacks here is… clarity. I’d pick a couple of ideas and go further into them.

 

Also, I suspect the whole...non-standard leadership source is getting a little too subtle. Thoughts on ways to make it apparent, but not necessarily obvious?

 

I think this is one of the best ideas in this IA, but you’re not really making much of it, it’s a few half suggestions at the start then it doesn’t come into it at all. as it stands i can't see it really makes any difference to the Chapter at all.

 

Trying to keep the mystery? Personally I’d rather you gave us the omniscient view of an observer, tell us why these Fallen wanted a Chapter of their own, what’s their motivation – good or bad? Do they have other goals that they’re not telling?

 

Quick idea: did they know about TDA under the ice, they could even have been part of original mission, then possibly even set up city falling to be able to retrieve it?

 

Edit: also, will they ever let anyone else in the Chapter know their secret, forming their own 'inner circle' (presumably against El'Jonson) or will it die with them? (i assume if they are trying to be loyalists they're not going to live forever Chaosy Fallen style)

 

If you want to get rid of anything I’d lose the chapter schism bit with wolves, etc using fluff to try and justify the various different minis you might have is (again IMHO) never a good idea

 

Anyway, don’t get me wrong I still like it a lot, feel free to totally ignore me if you happy with it, just my 2 kraks worth

[Alkana]

Although overt conflict has arisen yet, the people of Falconscott are noticeably less welcoming toward the marines.

 

Shouldn't it be "Although overt conflict hasn't arisen yet..."? I could be wrong.

 

Other than that, this is really good. The name Ice Lords makes the chapter sound cold-hearted, but then you include things about them partying with the locals and it makes them more unique than other chapters whose basic mindsets are "kill, kill, kill". I also like the internal conflicts, which to me adds a bit more depth into the inner workings of the chapter.

 

I also have some questions.

-What kind of enemies have they fought other than the genestealers on their homeworld?

-Do the different factions in the chapter affect them during battles? Will Wolves still save Knights when they need help? Will one faction take orders from another?

 

Good work so far. :huh:

[Octavulg]

Y’know I like this a lot, lots of good plot ideas

 

Thank you.

 

However, that being said, I think that in itself could be a bit of a problem too

 

Damn. It was too good to last. ;)

 

The Fallen commander, the floating cities, the differing populace with the resulting schism within the Chapter, the TDA in the ice, the threat of genestealers and (I’m not sure if you’re still doing this bit) the threat of something worse (AdMech stuff)

 

I want to keep it, but there's not really room for it at the moment. Plus, although the idea itself is great (if I do say so myself), it's not really as important as some of the other aspects. Also, I'm not sure how to hint at it exactly. I mean, if they find it, it's not exactly a hint any more. Perhaps some scout reports of strange and arcane metal chambers beneath the ice.

 

A sidebar issue, I think.

 

All good ideas but they could be the basis for 2 or even 3 good IAs. IMHO what your work lacks here is… clarity. I’d pick a couple of ideas and go further into them.

 

Well, the floating cities are color/tied to the DAoT thing. The schism is not strictly necessary, but I really find it interesting. The genestealers are definitely the least important part, but c'mon...Genestealers. Genestealers! Who doesn't love a good crop o' Genestealers?

 

The Fallen commander stays, since I actually came up with a reasonable reason for his existence.

 

I think this is one of the best ideas in this IA, but you’re not really making much of it, it’s a few half suggestions at the start then it doesn’t come into it at all. as it stands i can't see it really makes any difference to the Chapter at all.

 

Well, it is the source of their close relationship with the population. Of course, I can see how it might not be immediately apparent just how so.

 

Trying to keep the mystery? Personally I’d rather you gave us the omniscient view of an observer, tell us why these Fallen wanted a Chapter of their own, what’s their motivation – good or bad? Do they have other goals that they’re not telling?

 

Good point. Perhaps an omniscient sidebar is in order, with the rest of the IA all ignorant-like. :P

 

Quick idea: did they know about TDA under the ice, they could even have been part of original mission, then possibly even set up city falling to be able to retrieve it?

 

That actually was an idea for a little bit - they know about the evil beneath the ice and are trying to keep a lid on it.

 

Of course, to me, it'd probably be easier to crash a Thunderhawk than to crash a city. :P

 

Not sure whether I'll lean this way or not. I just so adore the idea of the poor Fallen Chapter Master trying to keep his head down and having the whole world fall on it.

 

Edit: also, will they ever let anyone else in the Chapter know their secret, forming their own 'inner circle' (presumably against El'Jonson) or will it die with them? (i assume if they are trying to be loyalists they're not going to live forever Chaosy Fallen style)

 

This is a very, very, very good point, which I had completely failed to consider.

 

If you want to get rid of anything I’d lose the chapter schism bit with wolves, etc using fluff to try and justify the various different minis you might have is (again IMHO) never a good idea

 

I agree, and wouldn't do so, if I hadn't already painted the buggers. :(

 

Though rereading Wolf Pack has done much to fuel my interest in ideological disputes among chapter brethren.

 

Anyway, don’t get me wrong I still like it a lot, feel free to totally ignore me if you happy with it, just my 2 kraks worth

 

You most definitely will not be ignored. You have, in point of fact, provided me with much direction, if only in that I probably can't just hint at everything and should just state a few things plainly, and save the hinting for other stuff.

 

* * *

@Alkana

Shouldn't it be "Although overt conflict hasn't arisen yet..."? I could be wrong.

 

Well, I'm going to change it to "Although no overt conflict has arisen yet", but that's my contrary nature. ;)

 

Other than that, this is really good. The name Ice Lords makes the chapter sound cold-hearted, but then you include things about them partying with the locals and it makes them more unique than other chapters whose basic mindsets are "kill, kill, kill". I also like the internal conflicts, which to me adds a bit more depth into the inner workings of the chapter.

 

Thank you. I am fond of them as well.

 

I also have some questions.

-What kind of enemies have they fought other than the genestealers on their homeworld?

 

Er...Orks?

 

Honestly, I have a few small ideas, but I like to base my stuff off actual game happenings, and I really haven't played enough 40K lately for anything neat. Actually, the Ice Lords have only seen a total of one game. :( Which I believe they lost. So, y'know, good way to open an IA. ;)

 

I've got some campaign ideas, and time and means to get some regular gaming in in the next few months, so something good may work its way in.

 

-Do the different factions in the chapter affect them during battles? Will Wolves still save Knights when they need help? Will one faction take orders from another?

 

This should be explored further. The answer (BTW) is yes. Though whether Wolves will save Knights if they don't have to is an interesting question. Most would. A few would not (but are quiet about it). Everybody takes orders, but that's because to do otherwise is stupid and dangerous.

 

Good work so far. thumbsup.gif

 

Thankee.

[Lysimachus]

Well, the floating cities are color/tied to the DAoT thing. The schism is not strictly necessary, but I really find it interesting. The genestealers are definitely the least important part, but c'mon...Genestealers. Genestealers! Who doesn't love a good crop o' Genestealers?

 

That’s very true. I’d drop the genestealers bit in favour of the unknown DAoT, as you say it ties in better with the floating cities, and with ancient Fallen commander and TDA in ice. (if you really like them maybe you could add ‘stealers to your Stone Hearts as they might well be something more likely come across by a rogue trader and his followers?)

 

Perhaps an omniscient sidebar is in order, with the rest of the IA all ignorant-like.

 

thats an excellent idea, keep the mystery and tell us whats going on. do it!

 

That actually was an idea for a little bit - they know about the evil beneath the ice and are trying to keep a lid on it.

 

Of course, to me, it'd probably be easier to crash a Thunderhawk than to crash a city.

 

:lol: very true!

 

I’d also have Taramant knowing about it before hand and choosing world on purpose. Maybe say that he was a junior recruit and watched all the Terminators going off to fight this danger +never come back? (would also solve issue some people seem to have with them being assigned a Homeworld, just have Taramant knowing that’s where he’s taking them, just not told anyone else)

 

I agree, and wouldn't do so, if I hadn't already painted the buggers.

 

i'm guessing you've got a lot of them, then? :)

seriously, though, i think its the one bit in the article (i don't know quite how to put this so please don't take offence) that seems like something written by a fluff newb who's just trying to justify all the minis he's been handed by big brother, mate, etc who doesn't want them anymore. sorry, but i just think you are way better than that... come to think of it, i'm actually trying to be complementary to you in saying this! :)

 

having said that though, the schism is an interesting idea, one that again i like a lot. maybe its one thats worth cutting and saving to add to another future IA that needs a bit of extra flavour?

 

anyway, glad i could contribute something, you've been a big help to me on pretty much all of mine!

 

keep going, want to see more updates, (especially omniscient sidebar)!

[Octavulg]

That’s very true. I’d drop the genestealers bit in favour of the unknown DAoT, as you say it ties in better with the floating cities, and with ancient Fallen commander and TDA in ice. (if you really like them maybe you could add ‘stealers to your Stone Hearts as they might well be something more likely come across by a rogue trader and his followers?)

 

Oh, everybody's gonna run into Stealers sooner or later. ;) They're rather ubiquitous.

 

The trick is having some reason for there to be a metric ton of Terminators at the bottom without it being immediately clear what they're facing. Perhaps they should be referred to as genetically twisted monstrosities that just happen to resemble Genestealers. Hence the Mechanicus interest in them.

 

They are, of course, biowarfare creations of the DAoT AI, which have bred true over the years. I think the DAoT AI must sadly never be mentioned, and remain buried deep in mystery. A shame, but I don't really see a way around it. There're hints that something's under the planet, but what it is is too involved to get into.

 

Plus, taking out the worries about Genestealer infestation gives me a bit more space to play around with. Win.

 

One sidebar on wild and crazy creatures, and the implications thereof, one sidebar for the Fallen. Sounds like it might even work.

 

thats an excellent idea, keep the mystery and tell us whats going on. do it!

 

Sidebar is written, and will be added very, very soon. In fact, right now. Just have to read through one more time. And revise. Then revise a little more. :P

 

I’d also have Taramant knowing about it before hand and choosing world on purpose. Maybe say that he was a junior recruit and watched all the Terminators going off to fight this danger +never come back? (would also solve issue some people seem to have with them being assigned a Homeworld, just have Taramant knowing that’s where he’s taking them, just not told anyone else)

 

People also seem to think that Marines just kind of pop up and claim a world. I think that idea's just as odd as marines being assigned homeworlds, don't you?

 

The idea of them choosing the world on purpose seems a good one on the surface, but it starts to raise issues like "Why the hell aren't there more of them?" "Why does nobody else remember this?" "Wouldn't it be better to leave it a secret?". Things like that. Whereas if it's just some unidentified company from some traitor legion (pre-traitor, obviously), then nobody remembering is OK. If it's just unhappy coincidence, then all the suffering gets a little more unpleasant.

 

What I might do is have Taramant request a homeworld, and get Falconscott. A thought for another update.

 

i'm guessing you've got a lot of them, then? msn-wink.gif

 

I have 120 Terminators. Of them, the Ice Lords currently muster about 35, in various stages of painting. They're probably gonna end up with the full 45 that can be crammed into a DA list, but I might skimp a bit and just keep the Troops as Terminators. Hard to say.

 

And I actually probably have MORE than 120 Terminators. I'll do a nice, firm count some time. Then put it in my sig, to wow the masses.

 

seriously, though, i think its the one bit in the article (i don't know quite how to put this so please don't take offence) that seems like something written by a fluff newb who's just trying to justify all the minis he's been handed by big brother, mate, etc who doesn't want them anymore. sorry, but i just think you are way better than that... come to think of it, i'm actually trying to be complementary to you in saying this! msn-wink.gif

 

I like the compliment, I really do. And you should have been here back when the justification was mixed geneseed. :S I was young and foolish a few months ago, apparently. *Shudder*

 

Also, that characterization isn't entirely inaccurate, since I did get them off ebay. :P

 

having said that though, the schism is an interesting idea, one that again i like a lot. maybe its one thats worth cutting and saving to add to another future IA that needs a bit of extra flavour?

 

I dunno. The idea of Taramant's dream being threatened from within and without seems so...right, somehow.

 

I mean, he wants to go off, lead a relatively quiet life, and create an honorable chapter who loves each other (in the warrior-type way. These are not Athenian Marines) and defends their people to their last breath. Y'know, the opposite of the Dark Angels. :)

 

And then there's a ravening horde from below (that's the without bit), the threat of a schism, and the bloody schismatics are talking about how useless the people are - and the people are starting to push back, meaning even the loyal marines might have to kill them once they start rioting. Everything's starting to slip away, and trying to stop it too hard may just make it slip away even faster.

 

Hence why he's rather unwilling to do anything too drastic to the schismatics. Every time he contemplates it, he remembers Caliban. He's not quite the marine he used to be.

 

anyway, glad i could contribute something, you've been a big help to me on pretty much all of mine!

 

My pleasure, man. :) Further contributions are welcome, of course.

 

keep going, want to see more updates, (especially omniscient sidebar)!

 

I shall. I'm going to keep messing with the sidebar a little, and am probably going to mess with the Genestealers a little bit (make them not apparently Genestealers, for one).

 

* * *

 

Updated now. Hopefully you'll like it. I kinda do. :)

[Hubernator]

OK, I finally dragged myself out of my dark and 40K-free corner to read your IA. I must admit, you've done a decent job :) I never thought I'd say that.

 

A couple of pointers:

- The name of the homeworld doesn't convey "Ice world" to me. Why is it called that?

- The IA could do with a bit more colour. The header text should be a darker colour.

- You keep talking about a rare xeno species yet you mention Genestealer tunnels. You might want to check that.

- Laborers is spelt labourers :)

- I think if I was Taramant I would execute those wolven brethren and halt all recruitment of gang members.

[Lysimachus]

the updates are very good, everything ties together much, much better and the sidebar on taramant is brilliant, now i really feel like i know where they're coming from, why they doing what they're doing

 

actually been thinking about this as doing other stuff today, somewhat in line with this point:

 

The trick is having some reason for there to be a metric ton of Terminators at the bottom without it being immediately clear what they're facing. Perhaps they should be referred to as genetically twisted monstrosities that just happen to resemble Genestealers. Hence the Mechanicus interest in them.

 

now, the tons of TDA was a small point of concern to me, but it made me remember that somewhere it mentions that before HH there were plans in Imperium that all SM eventually upgrade PA to TDA?

 

well, suppose this world was a (secret) AdMech test bed site for TDA with the goal of all Marines using it? would allow you to have loads of suits without worrying about numbers or having to give back to original owning Legions? (or their Chapter decendants) also gives a good reason for lots of high tech stuff (cities, etc) and could even say that monsters were created as test enemies by AdMech?

 

then HH happens and all gets left, except machines producing monsters keep going, overrun facility, kill AdMechs, etc, but then no one else knows about it, all gets forgotten? just my mind wandering, as usual feel free to ignore!!

 

anyway, on the whole excellent job on updating this, really huge improvement and a very good read ;)

[Octavulg]

Hubernator:

 

OK, I finally dragged myself out of my dark and 40K-free corner to read your IA. I must admit, you've done a decent job pinch.gif I never thought I'd say that.

 

Hubernator? My son? You are either being incredibly insulting on purpose, or unintentionally. Either one of these would seem cause for you to rethink what you just said, before you begin to regret it.

 

A couple of pointers:

- The name of the homeworld doesn't convey "Ice world" to me. Why is it called that?

 

In-universe, probably somebody named Franklin found it.

 

Out of universe - look up Sir John Franklin or Franklin's expedition. Either one should get you what you're after.

 

The short version is that he's an Arctic explorer.

 

- The IA could do with a bit more colour. The header text should be a darker colour.

 

Adding too much BBCode in the last few iterations resulted in a major decline in my sanity, though I agree with you on the need for more color. I might stick a Terminator in somewhere. And (hopefully) I can come up with some decent artwork or a decent photo of whatever I decide to make the monsters look like.

 

I try and keep header colors in the same color as one of the primary chapter colors - and trust me, the blue's a lot better for that than the white would be. ;) Darkening it doesn't seem quite right, and the only other chapter color would be black, which doesn't really do much to brighten and diversify.

 

- You keep talking about a rare xeno species yet you mention Genestealer tunnels. You might want to check that.

 

Fixed. Thanks.

 

- Laborers is spelt labourers tongue.gif

 

As a Canadian, I can use British or American spellings for words in a wildly inconsistent fashion and claim it's cultural. I choose to do so now. ;)

 

- I think if I was Taramant I would execute those wolven brethren and halt all recruitment of gang members.

 

Well, recruitment of them is now looked at more harshly.

 

Executing them...well, what have they done? They've spoken out against some chapter precepts, but they're still loyal marines. They just have a different vision of the chapter. They don't agree with Taramant, but he's far too leery of chapter civil war to let THAT provoke him to force. He hopes they can be redeemed (it would seem odd if a Fallen made no provision for the redemption of others).

 

Plus, watching Caliban get blasted apart and fighting with his brothers has made him a little leery of things too much like it. He freezes up a bit, and doesn't always react well, so he tends to try not to act at all in such situations.

 

The Wolves are still loyal to the chapter (with some possible exceptions). To execute loyal marines for a relatively minor ideological disagreement (albeit one that's important to the chapter)...

 

It might be what the Dark Angels would do. But that's all the more reason not to do it.

 

* * *

Lysimachus:

 

the updates are very good, everything ties together much, much better and the sidebar on taramant is brilliant, now i really feel like i know where they're coming from, why they doing what they're doing

 

Excellent. Most excellent indeed. :)

 

now, the tons of TDA was a small point of concern to me, but it made me remember that somewhere it mentions that before HH there were plans in Imperium that all SM eventually upgrade PA to TDA?

 

I didn't, actually. I'd thought TDA was intended for a more limited role, since it's still somewhat slower than regular power armor.

 

well, suppose this world was a (secret) AdMech test bed site for TDA with the goal of all Marines using it? would allow you to have loads of suits without worrying about numbers or having to give back to original owning Legions?

 

Except the Mechanicus might decide they want them...

 

(or their Chapter decendants) also gives a good reason for lots of high tech stuff (cities, etc) and could even say that monsters were created as test enemies by AdMech?

 

It sounds so...competent, though. The Mechanicus creating the cities seems far, far too successful and practical and impressive.

 

then HH happens and all gets left, except machines producing monsters keep going, overrun facility, kill AdMechs, etc, but then no one else knows about it, all gets forgotten? just my mind wandering, as usual feel free to ignore!!

 

I think I might this time. Yours requires the Adeptus Mechanicus forgetting about a research facility...which just feels wrong to me somehow. Sorry. :(

 

anyway, on the whole excellent job on updating this, really huge improvement and a very good read biggrin.gif

 

Thanks very much, man. ;) That means a lot.

[Lysimachus]

I think I might this time. Yours requires the Adeptus Mechanicus forgetting about a research facility...which just feels wrong to me somehow. Sorry.

 

No worries, thought about it a bit more after i pressed submit, realized it wasn't that good anyway :nuke:

 

 

now, the tons of TDA was a small point of concern to me, but it made me remember that somewhere it mentions that before HH there were plans in Imperium that all SM eventually upgrade PA to TDA?

 

I didn't, actually. I'd thought TDA was intended for a more limited role, since it's still somewhat slower than regular power armor.

 

i'm pretty sure it says that somewhere, no idea of the reference though, anyone else got any idea? not that it matters as the whole idea is a bit of a bust but i just like to know i've not gone completely off the deep end... ;)

 

 

 

 

P.S. as a side point, wondered if you had any thoughts on my current IA: Emperors Blade? would like your input if you've got a mo to have a look!

[Hubernator]

OK, I finally dragged myself out of my dark and 40K-free corner to read your IA. I must admit, you've done a decent job pinch.gif I never thought I'd say that.

 

Hubernator? My son? You are either being incredibly insulting on purpose, or unintentionally. Either one of these would seem cause for you to rethink what you just said, before you begin to regret it.

Unintentionally. Last time I read this I skimmed over it and didn't exactly warm up to it. After having a more thorough read I think you've done well. So no hard feelings *hides behind wall*

 

A couple of pointers:

- The name of the homeworld doesn't convey "Ice world" to me. Why is it called that?

 

In-universe, probably somebody named Franklin found it.

 

Out of universe - look up Sir John Franklin or Franklin's expedition. Either one should get you what you're after.

 

The short version is that he's an Arctic explorer.

Good enough for me.

 

- The IA could do with a bit more colour. The header text should be a darker colour.

 

Adding too much BBCode in the last few iterations resulted in a major decline in my sanity, though I agree with you on the need for more color. I might stick a Terminator in somewhere. And (hopefully) I can come up with some decent artwork or a decent photo of whatever I decide to make the monsters look like.

 

I try and keep header colors in the same color as one of the primary chapter colors - and trust me, the blue's a lot better for that than the white would be. :) Darkening it doesn't seem quite right, and the only other chapter color would be black, which doesn't really do much to brighten and diversify.

Well it is a little hard to read the header. That's why I thought changing it would make it more readable.

 

- Laborers is spelt labourers tongue.gif

 

As a Canadian, I can use British or American spellings for words in a wildly inconsistent fashion and claim it's cultural. I choose to do so now. ;)

Fair enough.

 

- I think if I was Taramant I would execute those wolven brethren and halt all recruitment of gang members.

 

Well, recruitment of them is now looked at more harshly.

 

Executing them...well, what have they done? They've spoken out against some chapter precepts, but they're still loyal marines. They just have a different vision of the chapter. They don't agree with Taramant, but he's far too leery of chapter civil war to let THAT provoke him to force. He hopes they can be redeemed (it would seem odd if a Fallen made no provision for the redemption of others).

 

Plus, watching Caliban get blasted apart and fighting with his brothers has made him a little leery of things too much like it. He freezes up a bit, and doesn't always react well, so he tends to try not to act at all in such situations.

 

The Wolves are still loyal to the chapter (with some possible exceptions). To execute loyal marines for a relatively minor ideological disagreement (albeit one that's important to the chapter)...

 

It might be what the Dark Angels would do. But that's all the more reason not to do it.

Well the idea I got from it was something that could lead to a split in the Chapter with some going renegade. BUt that's my perception of it.

 

***

 

As I said, no hard feelings. It's a good IA, just needs "spicing up" ^_^ Oh yeah, while you were gone I redid the Phantoms so you might want to find that and take a look :lol:

[Octavulg]

Unintentionally. Last time I read this I skimmed over it and didn't exactly warm up to it. After having a more thorough read I think you've done well. So no hard feelings *hides behind wall*

 

Good. Twould pain me to kill you.

 

Next time, make it clear you're talking about this IA in particular, rather than, y'know, me writing in general. :P

 

Well it is a little hard to read the header. That's why I thought changing it would make it more readable.

 

It would, but it'd destroy the unified color scheme. It is a tricky one.

 

Well the idea I got from it was something that could lead to a split in the Chapter with some going renegade. BUt that's my perception of it.

 

Although it could lead to renegades, I think an equally likely occurance is an attempt at a coup d'etat. After all, both sides think they're right - thus, they both want to remake the chapter in THEIR image. I really could see them forcibly taking over the chapter (or trying to). Probably through a combination of subterfuge and naked force.

 

It's a good IA, just needs "spicing up" tongue.gif

 

It's got a millenia-old quest for redemption, ravening monsters in dark tunnels of ice, flying cities, and murder. Oh, and the always favorite ideological conflict with brother against brother.

 

I must ask what could really spice it up at this point.

 

Also, slightly updated. Added a few tiny words, took some more out. Nothing too big.

[Hubernator]

Unintentionally. Last time I read this I skimmed over it and didn't exactly warm up to it. After having a more thorough read I think you've done well. So no hard feelings *hides behind wall*

 

Good. Twould pain me to kill you.

 

Next time, make it clear you're talking about this IA in particular, rather than, y'know, me writing in general. ;)

No problem ;)

 

Well it is a little hard to read the header. That's why I thought changing it would make it more readable.

 

It would, but it'd destroy the unified color scheme. It is a tricky one.

Hey, your call. You decorate how you like, just please remember that people will be reading it so they would like to see it :P

 

Well the idea I got from it was something that could lead to a split in the Chapter with some going renegade. BUt that's my perception of it.

 

Although it could lead to renegades, I think an equally likely occurance is an attempt at a coup d'etat. After all, both sides think they're right - thus, they both want to remake the chapter in THEIR image. I really could see them forcibly taking over the chapter (or trying to). Probably through a combination of subterfuge and naked force.

Either way it'll end messy :P

 

It's a good IA, just needs "spicing up" tongue.gif

 

It's got a millenia-old quest for redemption, ravening monsters in dark tunnels of ice, flying cities, and murder. Oh, and the always favorite ideological conflict with brother against brother.

 

I must ask what could really spice it up at this point.

 

Also, slightly updated. Added a few tiny words, took some more out. Nothing too big.

I meant decorating-wise :P You know me, I like "colourful" stuff :P I'm a sucker for that.

[Octavulg]

Ah, you want more shininess.

 

I admit I do, too, but I kinda want to keep to the Ice Lord colors - which makes it damn hard to do anything with white text. :ph34r:

 

I think I'll work up that Terminator tomorrow and throw him in. That'll add a little.

[Hubernator]

Yay. Well for headers you could do a dark background with either the ice blue or white text.