Space Marine MauntyHall.

[Joah from Alberta]

God I love it when I'm wrong.

 

Cheers,

[Joah from Alberta]

So, there's a legion of the damned, go figure. I never knew, although, I think my friend once told me a short story about these Space Marines that got lost in the warp. They get 3+ Inv saves. I wonder what the bloody H went on out there.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Seeing as they never had the invulnerable save in their previous rules, and there's no real justification for it, I'd say that they just decided that, what seems to be to me, the daemons of the Emperor needed to be a bit tougher than Marines who could appear anywhere on the table, and were slightly tougher.

[the jeske]

back in the day they had a special character with a skull that brough them back from the dead each turn . giving them inv save instead is a more wise thing to do . or rather GW they doesnt have a new model for the sgt .

[iamblakkmetal]

well i kind of expected GW to over-do the space marines. lets just wait and see before we panic after all Tzeentch did plan this out.:)

 

 

I'm seeing a lot of “doom and gloom” about this new ‘dex. I guess it’s to be expected (I mean it wouldn’t be new codex time without all the cryin’). We pretty much hear this sort of talk with every new codex before it comes out. I don’t wanna bash all the whiners, but seriously, how many times do we need to go through this?

Once people see the list in the greater context they realize that it’s not all that over-powered. After all you are only hearing about the killer new stuff SM are getting (without the benefit of knowing how much it’s going to cost). Of course they are going to sound uber-leet at this point.

I don’t want to get into it here as it’s the wrong place, but I’ve not only seen the new codex, but I’ve played against it…and WON! Granted the guy wasn’t using any of the new toys (pretty much transferred his old list into the new codex), but I did get to see Combat Tactics in action; FNP on a command squad and the new Drop Pod with typhoon launcher (got a big boost OMG!). I’m not that intimidated by it.

My Red Corsairs beat the new SM in an Annihilation game 9KP to 6KP (1500pt game).

Get over it, the new SMs are not going to break the game and I will continue to play Chaos Marines as I like the flexibility you get from the list.

What was important was that it felt like I was playing against a SM army. I never felt like what was coming at me was anything but a bunch of Codex worshiping, deluded, false empitor luvin’ beakies.

 

 

Dosadi

What I find funny.

 

 

I'm seeing a lot of “doom and gloom” about this new ‘dex.

lets just wait and see before we panic after all Tzeentch did plan this out.

 

You do realize, that by now, people have seen/have the codex. These same statements were made months before C:CSM came out. And they are said by people before orks, DA, BA . . . Before every codex.

Yes, some of the more obvious combos will not pan out, and others will be found.

 

Again, you like this, or they like that. But couldn't people say "get over the fanboy attitudes?" Wouldn't they be just as right as you claiming they are doom and gloom? Or just wait?

 

And of course they felt like SM, Chaos doesn't feel like Chaos anymore, so anything more then the Chaos we have feels more like Chaos. I mean if you define chaos by the current book, Khorne+Slaanesh = :wub:. Nurgle + Tzeentch= :wub: What is Chaos?

 

Remember, the new chaos' books justifications. Streamlined, less options to be less complicated, you can't represent 9 legions in a single book, uniqueness creates complexity so that is out.

 

 

 

Hmm.

Then look at the new SM book.

 

Librarian

Leadership 10, and has an entire page of various powers to select from. Big news is the Psychic Hood which now has a range of 24" instead of infinite.[

More Psychic then Tzeentch (who is now more HTH by the way).

Nice to see Tzeentch isn't the master of the Warp/Sorcery (yeah, that makes SM not feel like Chaos, they are better psykers regardless of cost, cause Tzeentch has always and is still costly).

 

Master of the Forge

Access to the Conversion Beamer, an old-school Rogue Trader era weapon with a 72" range that grows more powerful the greater the distance to its targets. At its top end, it is S:10 AP:1 Small Blast.

Wait, Marines of any chapter (not legions) have more old school pre-heresy weapons, then Chaos?

Yeah, makes more sense the guys < 10000 years old have the 10,000 year old weapons? That wouldn't make them more like Chaos to have old weapons? Hmm.

 

Techmarines

Has a power allowing you to improve the cover save of a single piece of ruins in your deployment zone by +1. Access to the Thunderfire Cannon, which is artillery and has multiple fire modes based upon 4 small blast markers. One of the fire modes makes its target count as being in difficult ground next turn.

Good thing chaos got rid of the basalisk and gave it to the marines. Oh, sorry. Uh. Yeah, so now any marine chapter is more like Iron Warriors then the Iron Warriors. That doesn't make them more like chaos?

 

Honor Guard

These bad boys have access to "Relic blades" which are +2S powerweapons. Their squad leader is the "Company Champion" who is required to direct attacks vs enemy ICs if possible.

Hmm, so Daemonic STR = Bad as that is confusing. Squads with specific upgrades (Daemonic STR, combat drugs) = bad. Now Marines do it! Yeah.. Uh, so they are relic blades, not Daemonic Strength. Right, less Chaotic.

 

Tactical Squads

Available in 5-10 men. Squads of ten grant access to Flamer/Multimelta/Missile Launcher/Heavy Bolter for FREE. Squads less than 10 may not purchase any special or heavy weapons

Hmm, so we get BP/CCW/Bolter and can take a Heavy weapon at 10.

 

Yeah, Marines seem alot different then Chaos (who were marines) especially those renegades who just were marines. Oh wait, Space Marines are more customizable (defined as bad in the new Chaos codex) then Chaos.

 

Thank God GW is consistent. I mean I would hate to think that C:CSM was rushed, wrong, or a mistake.

 

Another point to remember- Whatever shiny new stuff they get in Codex:SM we CSM Commanders can always "loot" and use in Apocalypse... Traitor Thunderfire canons, anyone? :D

Yeah, we can play apocalypse now if we want to play Chaos.

Thank god For apocalypse. It absolves GW of all design requirements and fluff.

 

And think the SM don't need to play Apoc to play Chaos, but Chaos needs to play Apoc to play, uh, chaos.

 

 

I feel for you guys, and thought the same thing.

 

GW said "Customization is bad, daemons with mortals is bad, and 9 legions cannot be represented in a single book!"

 

This made my Emperor's Children with all my conversions unplayable, and forced me to remake my Word Bearers (who are now about half as effective, characterful, and fun).

 

Then, the new SM codex comes out, is customizable out the whazoo, and the represent 90% of all SM chapters in one book. Hazzah for GW!

 

 

Im glad my Fists will get a boost. They will be fun to use. But I still mourn the loss of my EC and the casteration of my Word Bearers. And this codex coming out has just opened a lot of old wounds.

[iamblakkmetal]

well i kind of expected GW to over-do the space marines. lets just wait and see before we panic after all Tzeentch did plan this out.:)

 

 

I'm seeing a lot of “doom and gloom” about this new ‘dex. I guess it’s to be expected (I mean it wouldn’t be new codex time without all the cryin’). We pretty much hear this sort of talk with every new codex before it comes out. I don’t wanna bash all the whiners, but seriously, how many times do we need to go through this?

Once people see the list in the greater context they realize that it’s not all that over-powered. After all you are only hearing about the killer new stuff SM are getting (without the benefit of knowing how much it’s going to cost). Of course they are going to sound uber-leet at this point.

I don’t want to get into it here as it’s the wrong place, but I’ve not only seen the new codex, but I’ve played against it…and WON! Granted the guy wasn’t using any of the new toys (pretty much transferred his old list into the new codex), but I did get to see Combat Tactics in action; FNP on a command squad and the new Drop Pod with typhoon launcher (got a big boost OMG!). I’m not that intimidated by it.

My Red Corsairs beat the new SM in an Annihilation game 9KP to 6KP (1500pt game).

Get over it, the new SMs are not going to break the game and I will continue to play Chaos Marines as I like the flexibility you get from the list.

What was important was that it felt like I was playing against a SM army. I never felt like what was coming at me was anything but a bunch of Codex worshiping, deluded, false empitor luvin’ beakies.

 

 

Dosadi

What I find funny.

 

 

I'm seeing a lot of “doom and gloom” about this new ‘dex.

lets just wait and see before we panic after all Tzeentch did plan this out.

 

You do realize, that by now, people have seen/have the codex. These same statements were made months before C:CSM came out. And they are said by people before orks, DA, BA . . . Before every codex.

Yes, some of the more obvious combos will not pan out, and others will be found.

 

Again, you like this, or they like that. But couldn't people say "get over the fanboy attitudes?" Wouldn't they be just as right as you claiming they are doom and gloom? Or just wait?

 

And of course they felt like SM, Chaos doesn't feel like Chaos anymore, so anything more then the Chaos we have feels more like Chaos. I mean if you define chaos by the current book, Khorne+Slaanesh = :wub:. Nurgle + Tzeentch= :wub: What is Chaos?

 

Remember, the new chaos' books justifications. Streamlined, less options to be less complicated, you can't represent 9 legions in a single book, uniqueness creates complexity so that is out.

 

 

 

Hmm.

Then look at the new SM book.

 

Librarian

Leadership 10, and has an entire page of various powers to select from. Big news is the Psychic Hood which now has a range of 24" instead of infinite.[

More Psychic then Tzeentch (who is now more HTH by the way).

Nice to see Tzeentch isn't the master of the Warp/Sorcery (yeah, that makes SM not feel like Chaos, they are better psykers regardless of cost, cause Tzeentch has always and is still costly).

 

Master of the Forge

Access to the Conversion Beamer, an old-school Rogue Trader era weapon with a 72" range that grows more powerful the greater the distance to its targets. At its top end, it is S:10 AP:1 Small Blast.

Wait, Marines of any chapter (not legions) have more old school pre-heresy weapons, then Chaos?

Yeah, makes more sense the guys < 10000 years old have the 10,000 year old weapons? That wouldn't make them more like Chaos to have old weapons? Hmm.

 

Techmarines

Has a power allowing you to improve the cover save of a single piece of ruins in your deployment zone by +1. Access to the Thunderfire Cannon, which is artillery and has multiple fire modes based upon 4 small blast markers. One of the fire modes makes its target count as being in difficult ground next turn.

Good thing chaos got rid of the basalisk and gave it to the marines. Oh, sorry. Uh. Yeah, so now any marine chapter is more like Iron Warriors then the Iron Warriors. That doesn't make them more like chaos?

 

Honor Guard

These bad boys have access to "Relic blades" which are +2S powerweapons. Their squad leader is the "Company Champion" who is required to direct attacks vs enemy ICs if possible.

Hmm, so Daemonic STR = Bad as that is confusing. Squads with specific upgrades (Daemonic STR, combat drugs) = bad. Now Marines do it! Yeah.. Uh, so they are relic blades, not Daemonic Strength. Right, less Chaotic.

 

Tactical Squads

Available in 5-10 men. Squads of ten grant access to Flamer/Multimelta/Missile Launcher/Heavy Bolter for FREE. Squads less than 10 may not purchase any special or heavy weapons

Hmm, so we get BP/CCW/Bolter and can take a Heavy weapon at 10.

 

Yeah, Marines seem alot different then Chaos (who were marines) especially those renegades who just were marines. Oh wait, Space Marines are more customizable (defined as bad in the new Chaos codex) then Chaos.

 

Thank God GW is consistent. I mean I would hate to think that C:CSM was rushed, wrong, or a mistake.

 

Another point to remember- Whatever shiny new stuff they get in Codex:SM we CSM Commanders can always "loot" and use in Apocalypse... Traitor Thunderfire canons, anyone? :D

Yeah, we can play apocalypse now if we want to play Chaos.

Thank god For apocalypse. It absolves GW of all design requirements and fluff.

 

And think the SM don't need to play Apoc to play Chaos, but Chaos needs to play Apoc to play, uh, chaos.

 

 

I feel for you guys, and thought the same thing.

 

GW said "Customization is bad, daemons with mortals is bad, and 9 legions cannot be represented in a single book!"

 

This made my Emperor's Children with all my conversions unplayable, and forced me to remake my Word Bearers (who are now about half as effective, characterful, and fun).

 

Then, the new SM codex comes out, is customizable out the whazoo, and the represent 90% of all SM chapters in one book. Hazzah for GW!

 

 

Im glad my Fists will get a boost. They will be fun to use. But I still mourn the loss of my EC and the casteration of my Word Bearers. And this codex coming out has just opened a lot of old wounds.

 

 

Youre right, the new Chaos SM codex was rushed. Really rushed. You can tell by all the ":cuss?" moments (Lords and Sorcerers cannot take retinues, thus making them useless as termie lords if you want to DS) and all the units that are so undercosted that youre a fool if you dont take them, balanced by all the units that are overcosted and medicore. AND the loss of Daemons, taking the "Chaos" out of Chaos Space Marines.

[Ju'kosian]

Ah well We'll see what the point cost is for all the shiny new toys for marines.. :D

 

The thing I wonder about most is (like I said before) the new rumoured changes to the tranposrt capacity for the Landraiders..

HOw will this effect us??

suddenly the tchpriests were able to make smaller ammopcks or power generators or what ...

[Brother Nihm]

Youre right, the new Chaos SM codex was rushed. Really rushed. You can tell by all the ":cuss?" moments (Lords and Sorcerers cannot take retinues, thus making them useless as termie lords if you want to DS)

Except that they can DS with units now under 5th. edition. :D

[Zeller]

We still need Dreadclaw entries.

[Brother Nihm]

We still need Dreadclaw entries.

Seconded, and cheaper than in the IA. :tu:

[Smurfalypse]

Im an avid Word Bearer player, and i play by the fluff not as to what works best. I have as much beef with the chaos codex as anyone here, but i still play my word bearers to the end and i have as much hatred for marines as ever, especially with the new rumors for the codex. Anyhow, this may be a blessing in disguise. If you think about it, there were a few codex's that came out with this new template for armies, eldar were fairly bland (but a very strong army), dark angels were very bland as well, chaos space marines was very bland just as the other two. People and players for each of these armies raised hades and sent letters and i think i even read about someone threatening to lock gav thorpes son in the trunk of his car (way over the top for that guy, the post got removed).

 

Those three codexs came out one after the other and were all boo'd fairly loudly by the players. Orks then came out and it was on a different scale than the other three, it had PILES of variety and options way more than any of the other three dex's at least. It was still a strong codex and the fluff in it was great (no clan rules but at least it didnt feel like you were building an army in a 2x2 foot box). Now the marines are coming out and the rumors are pointing toward piles and piles of options and many colorful characters to choose from ect ect..

 

My point to this whole thing is if you stand back and clear the red from your eyes it almost looks like GW has kinda backed off of the template there were using for the chaos/DA/eldar codexs and are actually returning to a better and much for fun way of putting these things together. I could be wrong and these two codexs could be a mistake in the eyes of GW, but i seriously doubt it, there is really something different in the way the last two were handled vs the way the previous three were put together.

 

The chaos 3.5 codex was retardedly broken in more ways than anyone can count. People used to dread playing against it and im sure it wasnt very much fun for alot of different armies (guard type armies almost had no chance vs anything you threw together). Point is, it needed to be fixed and the end result was codex renegades, not very much accepted and not very much liked (i can count on one hand the chaos players who say they love this codex), most of the people who say the codex is fine are non-chaos players and usually just looking to get a rise out of folks, thus how posts like this one go on forever. We will get a new codex sooner or later and it will be with much love, just wait and see.

 

Just my two cents guys.

[Cmndr Sarpedon]

Youre right, the new Chaos SM codex was rushed. Really rushed. You can tell by all the ":cuss?" moments (Lords and Sorcerers cannot take retinues, thus making them useless as termie lords if you want to DS)

Except that they can DS with units now under 5th. edition. :)

 

They couldn't in 4th??? Oops.... anyhow... I wonder if, like Smurfalypse said, this new codex will be a building block for those to come. I'm looking forward to the Guard codex, hopefully they will have more chaos in them to lend to my marines. The thing that REALLY wound me up about this Chaos codex was the lack of all those chaos gifts, and special armouries for each of the chaos gods. And we can still use all this goodness in Apoc remember, not that thats much of a consolation for the lack of character for chaos :'(.

 

Even more off topic: The August White Dward had Angron stats inside, why were they so low! A mere 6 attacks!

[Seahawk]

The chaos 3.5 codex was retardedly broken in more ways than anyone can count. People used to dread playing against it and im sure it wasnt very much fun for alot of different armies

 

Ah, and this is where I come to a new conclusion based on experience. I say to my new opponent that I'm fielding chaos (at a tournament, or even friendly games) and all of them have groaned, saying "Oh no, let me guess: daemon princes and lashes? Obliterators? Vindicators?" To which I reply "No, I play hardcore fluffy, without all of that spammy crap. Well, one obliterator." And they're all surprised, as if it's the most novel thing in the world that a chaos player isn't using any lashes.

 

Seriously, I get far more BS meeting someone new while playing my Word Bearers (fluffy) than I do my Ultramarines (fluffy). That's how bad this new codex is. Everyone uses the same most annoying thing, just like last codex, and now everyone expects to see that thing. I use everything people don't (chaos lords, possessed, big terminator units, defilers, CSM, daemons). On the plus side, once they learn that they aren't facing the new "broken" things, they become one of the most amicable players of the night. They have fun, I have fun, even though I still win.

[chillin]

The chaos 3.5 codex was retardedly broken in more ways than anyone can count. People used to dread playing against it

 

Twin lash, PM's and oblit/vindi spam is more broken and more hated then anything in codex csm 3.5 was.

And it is more spammed then anything in 3.5 was.

 

"we didn't know people would take two of them (lashes)"....you make something insanely game changing powerful and charge 20 pts for it, and you couldn't predict that some people would take as many as they could ???!! :P

[the jeske]

Everyone uses the same most annoying thing, just like last codex,

see and this is where you are wrong . the new dex has 1 list played all the time . 2 dps [lash mostly] 3+ troops [a mix of PM/zerkers]+oblits . one list . its cool that you play with a different army but when you look up the army list forum you will see that the list are very much the same [or are played in the same way as there isnt much difference in playing with a 7 man pm squad and a 10 man csm one].

 

the old dex had different list . It had the BL khorn list [i would say best there was] , the IWgunline , the AL all infiltration army , various demon bombs out of WE/EC and WB . When someone ask you what you play saying chaos didnt tell them anything . they had to ask about legion , army build etc . On top of that there were also army list not so good as the BL/IW , but that still had a large following [and whats important they were still good armies maybe not GT winers , but still good] . DG, non demon bomb WE or EC they were there [well only army that didnt exist were the 1ksons] .

right now when I play friendly or in a tournament , I dont even have to look at my opponents list .

 

you couldn't predict that some people would take as many as they could ?

as thorpe was mostly a writer there and a "fluff" designer I dont think he wa thinking a lot when doing the chaos dex . He was well know for doing either very bad [weak unplayable armies] or very powerful ones [lets just say that in our write up of the BA dex the Army of Death was fully legal ].

[Smurfalypse]

The chaos 3.5 codex was retardedly broken in more ways than anyone can count. People used to dread playing against it and im sure it wasnt very much fun for alot of different armies

 

Ah, and this is where I come to a new conclusion based on experience. I say to my new opponent that I'm fielding chaos (at a tournament, or even friendly games) and all of them have groaned, saying "Oh no, let me guess: daemon princes and lashes? Obliterators? Vindicators?" To which I reply "No, I play hardcore fluffy, without all of that spammy crap. Well, one obliterator." And they're all surprised, as if it's the most novel thing in the world that a chaos player isn't using any lashes.

 

Seriously, I get far more BS meeting someone new while playing my Word Bearers (fluffy) than I do my Ultramarines (fluffy). That's how bad this new codex is. Everyone uses the same most annoying thing, just like last codex, and now everyone expects to see that thing. I use everything people don't (chaos lords, possessed, big terminator units, defilers, CSM, daemons). On the plus side, once they learn that they aren't facing the new "broken" things, they become one of the most amicable players of the night. They have fun, I have fun, even though I still win.

 

 

This codex really has nothing (power gamer wise) on the last codex, you can think what you want but its not even close.

 

And if you must know my standard 1500 list has a walking 10 man term unit and a walking 10 man possessed unit, a term chaos lord so i know the feeling. I dont however get any flack or signs when i play because im literally the LAST chaos player at our gaming store. This is out of about 100 people, there is another guy who had been playing them lately but hes already getting his stuff ready for the new marine dex and shelved his chaos.

 

"Twin lash, PM's and oblit/vindi spam is more broken and more hated then anything in codex csm 3.5 was.

And it is more spammed then anything in 3.5 was.

 

"we didn't know people would take two of them (lashes)"....you make something insanely game changing powerful and charge 20 pts for it, and you couldn't predict that some people would take as many as they could ???!!"

 

I almost always agree with you chillen but this time im going to have to go half and half. The twin lash with pile-o-pm's is definitely a handful and a pain in the butt, but it doesnt wipe the butt of a slannesh DP that cant be targetted because of a minor power, daemon bomb, world eater army with uber'd out daemon prince, iron warriors...Thats just naming a few...The last codex was by far more busted than any other released. I do 100% agree with you on the fact that the new codex is definitely more spammable, but this has more to do with the fact that there are a few options in the current codex that are just unusable. Dreads-no one in their right mind uses these and expects to win or even compete, heck they arnt even that much fun, losing control of your stuff isnt exactly a blast. Possessed, if you know me, you know i absolutely

swear by these guys, i own 30 of them but lets face the facts, they arnt the greatest unit in the world most of the time, so people bypass them because of that fact. Chosen even are catching some flack, to expensive for what they do, better to have a term unit for the same price after weapons. Whens the last time youve seen a list with fast attack choices in it from the chaos dex.

 

My point is, the spam isnt because people like to spam stuff, its because the only option they see to remain in contention is to spam the same few great things we have in this dex. When you look at elites from a competitive standpoint you are left with two options really, terms and chosen...Fairly easy choice, unless you are a possessed lover ;) Troops you have PMs, CSMs, zerkers, why use noise marines with a little better weaponry when you can have PMs for literally the same price who are much much better all around. Our fast attack choices are awful for the most part.

 

This is the reason for the spam, in the last codex you didnt seem much spam, even two word bearer daemon bomb armies would be very different in how they functioned. So i agree about the spam issue chillen but not the statement about how this codex is more busted than the last B)

 

Gotta head to work, talk more when i get there bro's and broettes.

[Colonial Rifle]

Everyone uses the same most annoying thing, just like last codex,

see and this is where you are wrong . the new dex has 1 list played all the time . 2 dps [lash mostly] 3+ troops [a mix of PM/zerkers]+oblits . one list . its cool that you play with a different army but when you look up the army list forum you will see that the list are very much the same [or are played in the same way as there isnt much difference in playing with a 7 man pm squad and a 10 man csm one].

 

the old dex had different list . It had the BL khorn list [i would say best there was] , the IWgunline , the AL all infiltration army , various demon bombs out of WE/EC and WB . When someone ask you what you play saying chaos didnt tell them anything . they had to ask about legion , army build etc . On top of that there were also army list not so good as the BL/IW , but that still had a large following [and whats important they were still good armies maybe not GT winers , but still good] . DG, non demon bomb WE or EC they were there [well only army that didnt exist were the 1ksons] .

right now when I play friendly or in a tournament , I dont even have to look at my opponents list .

 

you couldn't predict that some people would take as many as they could ?

as thorpe was mostly a writer there and a "fluff" designer I dont think he wa thinking a lot when doing the chaos dex . He was well know for doing either very bad [weak unplayable armies] or very powerful ones [lets just say that in our write up of the BA dex the Army of Death was fully legal ].

 

QFT on all points

 

I used to run Alpha Legion before Gav destroyed it. It was a tough list, but never unfair and it was fluffed out with Cultists and multi-tasking CSM squads. Jervis would have had to approve as I used all my troop choices! All dead now ,as to replicate even something close to it would leave me with obviously inferior units. Typical Gav, can't balance unit's against each other to save his life.

 

Gav Thorpe is/was an AWFUL designer in 40K. Every book he has been involved in has been a conceptual disaster. Chaos version 4 is up there with his previous 'classic' 3rd ed Eldar (the powergamers book of choice prior to Chaos 3.5).

 

To be honest Alessio's not much better. They both work better in Fantasy.

[refuse]

My point to this whole thing is if you stand back and clear the red from your eyes it almost looks like GW has kinda backed off of the template there were using for the chaos/DA/eldar codexs and are actually returning to a better and much for fun way of putting these things together. I could be wrong and these two codexs could be a mistake in the eyes of GW, but i seriously doubt it, there is really something different in the way the last two were handled vs the way the previous three were put together.

 

The chaos 3.5 codex was retardedly broken in more ways than anyone can count. People used to dread playing against it and im sure it wasnt very much fun for alot of different armies (guard type armies almost had no chance vs anything you threw together). Point is, it needed to be fixed and the end result was codex renegades, not very much accepted and not very much liked (i can count on one hand the chaos players who say they love this codex), most of the people who say the codex is fine are non-chaos players and usually just looking to get a rise out of folks, thus how posts like this one go on forever. We will get a new codex sooner or later and it will be with much love, just wait and see.

 

Just my two cents guys.

Just a note.

 

They did this in 3.0, and changed to 3.5.

They probably do this intentionally. To alienate groups and get them to feel good about what they get back.

 

3.0 was a pamphlet of Chaos. 4.0 is the same.

 

4.0 is "retarded" and broken. And as mentioned by Jeske, just as easily broken.

 

 

 

yeah, there will be much love. Just like 3.5 over 3.0. Hmm, 4.5 over 4.0? Is GW that smart? Are people that silly to not see it? Or is it just GW's normal plan of pendulum.

[Joah from Alberta]

Very nicely summarized Smurfalypse.

 

I myself am working on a couple Slaanesh DPs with/without lash and without wings. I'm using metal OOP wraithlords for da fluff (what a better perverted DP than fallen Eldar).

 

I don't want to care what other people think about my choices. I don't want to think about wither or not I'm driving too slow for the guy behind me. I want my focus ahead: I want to play my own game. If I'm going to go with the punches, I'm gonna go all out with the punches. I want to take the good with the bad, and I want to feel good in my life. If I am uninhibited from any peer pressure, my talents will shine and I will give you my best game.

[Smurfalypse]

My point to this whole thing is if you stand back and clear the red from your eyes it almost looks like GW has kinda backed off of the template there were using for the chaos/DA/eldar codexs and are actually returning to a better and much for fun way of putting these things together. I could be wrong and these two codexs could be a mistake in the eyes of GW, but i seriously doubt it, there is really something different in the way the last two were handled vs the way the previous three were put together.

 

The chaos 3.5 codex was retardedly broken in more ways than anyone can count. People used to dread playing against it and im sure it wasnt very much fun for alot of different armies (guard type armies almost had no chance vs anything you threw together). Point is, it needed to be fixed and the end result was codex renegades, not very much accepted and not very much liked (i can count on one hand the chaos players who say they love this codex), most of the people who say the codex is fine are non-chaos players and usually just looking to get a rise out of folks, thus how posts like this one go on forever. We will get a new codex sooner or later and it will be with much love, just wait and see.

 

Just my two cents guys.

Just a note.

 

They did this in 3.0, and changed to 3.5.

They probably do this intentionally. To alienate groups and get them to feel good about what they get back.

 

3.0 was a pamphlet of Chaos. 4.0 is the same.

 

4.0 is "retarded" and broken. And as mentioned by Jeske, just as easily broken.

 

 

 

yeah, there will be much love. Just like 3.5 over 3.0. Hmm, 4.5 over 4.0? Is GW that smart? Are people that silly to not see it? Or is it just GW's normal plan of pendulum.

 

 

Definitely a pendulum effect with the codex's and the way they are released. This current codex is fairly easy to "break" the difference is that this one its kinda set on how you do it, the last one there was infinite ways to make a list that was just horrid for your opponent to play. We will get a new dex sooner or later its inevitable, my point to this whole thing was that they have oddly swapped dex writing styles the last two (orks and the new marines about to be released). This is after they made a huge stink about changing the way the codexs were done and they introduced the ever popular style of eldar/ba/da/chaos, i think its fairly safe to assume that behind closed doors they realize they have made a mistake and are swapping to a better system that allows people to have options and choices, or they are just giving those options to a few armies and not to the others :rolleyes: I would go with the first option there and think that they tried something new out, it was received by the customer base about as bad as something can be received and their little experiment is done now on to the more fun codexs of old.

 

Or at least i hope so ;)

[Xenocidal Maniac]

Funny. I see so much talk on teh intarwebz about how often the twin lash / oblit / vindicator cheese is spammed.

 

Yet I have never actually seen such a list played. Not once. Not even at the LA Battle Bunker.

 

How weird.

 

Speaking of loyalist marines, has anyone seen the new Dawn of War II trailer? I went on BoLS looking for marine rumors and it was there. golly. teh awesome and win!!!111

[Night Stalker]

Funny. I see so much talk on teh intarwebz about how often the twin lash / oblit / vindicator cheese is spammed.

 

Yet I have never actually seen such a list played. Not once. Not even at the LA Battle Bunker.

 

How weird.

 

Speaking of loyalist marines, has anyone seen the new Dawn of War II trailer? I went on BoLS looking for marine rumors and it was there. golly. teh awesome and win!!!111

 

 

funny thing - when i go to my hobby store, there is always at least 1 person who use lash :>

[Xenocidal Maniac]

Please elaborate - one player who uses one lash? Or one player who uses two Lash Demon Princes, Obliterators, and Vindicators? Because I am beginning to think this is just a myth that people fall back on when they can't be bothered to come up with a better argument. I've never once seen this list. And I play a lot of 40k.

 

I mean, I suppose you might see it in tournament play sometimes. But even in tournaments I haven't seen it. And, the fact remains, it's still not anywhere near as broken as the stuff you could make in the last codex.

 

But anyway, I think I've watched that new DoW II trailer like 15 times today. Totally sweet.

[Trve]

To be honest Alessio's not much better. They both work better in Fantasy.

 

 

 

 

Uhhh...

 

 

6th Edition Dark Elf book (Gav).

 

7th Edition HE book (Alessio).

 

 

Nope, safe to say they are just as awful in fantasy.

[Night Stalker]

Please elaborate - one player who uses one lash? Or one player who uses two Lash Demon Princes, Obliterators, and Vindicators? Because I am beginning to think this is just a myth that people fall back on when they can't be bothered to come up with a better argument. I've never once seen this list. And I play a lot of 40k.

 

I mean, I suppose you might see it in tournament play sometimes. But even in tournaments I haven't seen it. And, the fact remains, it's still not anywhere near as broken as the stuff you could make in the last codex.

 

But anyway, I think I've watched that new DoW II trailer like 15 times today. Totally sweet.

 

 

i was not so clear. so i state:

 

not 1 person play twin-lash/oblits/zerkers. many players use it in my area. it is just every time i visit it at least 1 person play such list.

 

so it's pretty hardcore here :> well, when playing tournament i also use pretty beardy list. i just do not play such abomination when playing friendly game, i'm not a d***.

 

i live in Poland, Europe wh40k champions. Here people play highly competetive. People here call my friendly list tier 50 [very very weak], until they are beaten by it. something akin [Lord DW/JP; 2x10csm rhinos no fist; 1x3 cp termis;1x10 mok raptors some lesser daemons[!], defilers or dreads, havocs with autocannons [!]; or only few of such choices]