Space Marine MauntyHall.

[Maddog176]

Now i read most of this, so forgive me if i say something already stated, but i see this new codex as a ray of hope. Would you rather that GW kept going the same way as the Chaos Codex, or they change things and go a different way offering us lost of customising and options. Yes i know it sucks that the Chaos Codex isn't that good, but i hope we can agree that we would rather see a change for the better then keep going down the dark path what no one seems to like.

[Colonial Rifle]

To be honest Alessio's not much better. They both work better in Fantasy.

 

 

 

 

Uhhh...

 

 

6th Edition Dark Elf book (Gav).

 

7th Edition HE book (Alessio).

 

 

Nope, safe to say they are just as awful in fantasy.

 

:) point taken - I don't play fantasy much! They are equally poor in both systems then! ;)

[Colonial Rifle]

Now i read most of this, so forgive me if i say something already stated, but i see this new codex as a ray of hope. Would you rather that GW kept going the same way as the Chaos Codex, or they change things and go a different way offering us lost of customising and options. Yes i know it sucks that the Chaos Codex isn't that good, but i hope we can agree that we would rather see a change for the better then keep going down the dark path what no one seems to like.

 

But Jervis has previous. Exhibit A: Epic 40,000.

 

Space Marine was a very popular game back in the early to mid-90's , But Jervis' mass over-simplification murdered that game when he wrote Epic 40,000. The damage is only being undone slowly now with Epic: armageddon, which is lot more options. Jervis had to admit in design notes for E:A that Epic 40,000 failure was down to too much abstraction. Grief, in Epic 40,000 that much difference between an ork and a marine!

 

The "less options" route was one that GW never had to go down. It's based on 2 equally poor ideas 1) Less options = more balance (blown out of the water pretty quickly by Codex Chaos. 2) people get confused by too many options, particularly newcomers. To answer the later, I say don't pander to the lowest common denominator - people are smarter than you think. Even as a kid, I never had a problem with the RT army lists and they were a lot more complex.

 

Codex: Space Marines is a step in the right direction, but to many of us this whole Jervis "crusade" (and it was completely ideological, Jervis has never had any real evidence to back up his claims) was a mistake from the start. It has damaged the hobby.

[refuse]

Funny. I see so much talk on teh intarwebz about how often the twin lash / oblit / vindicator cheese is spammed.

 

Yet I have never actually seen such a list played. Not once. Not even at the LA Battle Bunker.

 

How weird.

 

Speaking of loyalist marines, has anyone seen the new Dawn of War II trailer? I went on BoLS looking for marine rumors and it was there. golly. teh awesome and win!!!111

 

 

Please elaborate - one player who uses one lash? Or one player who uses two Lash Demon Princes, Obliterators, and Vindicators? Because I am beginning to think this is just a myth that people fall back on when they can't be bothered to come up with a better argument. I've never once seen this list. And I play a lot of 40k.

 

I mean, I suppose you might see it in tournament play sometimes. But even in tournaments I haven't seen it. And, the fact remains, it's still not anywhere near as broken as the stuff you could make in the last codex.

 

But anyway, I think I've watched that new DoW II trailer like 15 times today. Totally sweet.

 

Which is probably true.

I never saw the IW spam in 3.5. I never saw any of the other major complaints about 3.5 in all of my games during 3rd.

No one I ever saw actually used the 70pt Siren Dp. Though we did play a game to show people how it can be easily invalidated (of course, you had to have a troop heavy army to counter it).

I never saw 4 Basilisks in an actual army. I never saw a full WB Khorne army.

Heck, most of the broken lists I never saw in the real world.

 

So I do think, much of the ado about broken codecies are "interwebs". Just like the broken Daemon princes and other things.

[Smurfalypse]

Funny. I see so much talk on teh intarwebz about how often the twin lash / oblit / vindicator cheese is spammed.

 

Yet I have never actually seen such a list played. Not once. Not even at the LA Battle Bunker.

 

How weird.

 

Speaking of loyalist marines, has anyone seen the new Dawn of War II trailer? I went on BoLS looking for marine rumors and it was there. golly. teh awesome and win!!!111

 

 

Please elaborate - one player who uses one lash? Or one player who uses two Lash Demon Princes, Obliterators, and Vindicators? Because I am beginning to think this is just a myth that people fall back on when they can't be bothered to come up with a better argument. I've never once seen this list. And I play a lot of 40k.

 

I mean, I suppose you might see it in tournament play sometimes. But even in tournaments I haven't seen it. And, the fact remains, it's still not anywhere near as broken as the stuff you could make in the last codex.

 

But anyway, I think I've watched that new DoW II trailer like 15 times today. Totally sweet.

 

Which is probably true.

I never saw the IW spam in 3.5. I never saw any of the other major complaints about 3.5 in all of my games during 3rd.

No one I ever saw actually used the 70pt Siren Dp. Though we did play a game to show people how it can be easily invalidated (of course, you had to have a troop heavy army to counter it).

I never saw 4 Basilisks in an actual army. I never saw a full WB Khorne army.

Heck, most of the broken lists I never saw in the real world.

 

So I do think, much of the ado about broken codecies are "interwebs". Just like the broken Daemon princes and other things.

 

Games day i faced a few other chaos players (i was running word bearers with one daemon unit for each god). Iron warriors with 9 oblits and 4 heavies. I played against an all zerker army with bloodletters and bloodthirster off the board, daemon prince sicked out to own (he got insta gibbed by obliterators and the guy literally thew his model on the floor when it happened). I saw a few other chaos players around, mostly IW, i surprisingly was the only daemon bomb there and i played a fluffy version. x6 daemonettes, 8 bloodletters, 10 furies, 7 plaguebearers, 9 flamers, so i wasnt exactly sporting the leet sauce that game :lol: Though i did pretty much destroy everyone i played, daemon bomb was definitely busted.

 

This was games day 06 when they were hyping the current codex.

[the jeske]

Now i read most of this, so forgive me if i say something already stated, but i see this new codex as a ray of hope. Would you rather that GW kept going the same way as the Chaos Codex, or they change things and go a different way offering us lost of customising and options. Yes i know it sucks that the Chaos Codex isn't that good, but i hope we can agree that we would rather see a change for the better then keep going down the dark path what no one seems to like.

for the sake of balance and tournament play I would rather have all dexs at more or less the same lvl .

 

 

I saw a few other chaos players around, mostly IW, i surprisingly was the only daemon bomb there and i played a fluffy version. x6 daemonettes, 8 bloodletters, 10 furies, 7 plaguebearers, 9 flamers, so i wasnt exactly sporting the leet sauce that game

ever tried to play with a demon bomb against all skimer eldar or the old 4th ed nids ? yes demon bomb could pund gunline armies or some other weak builds , but it was not the top tier army out there . the fact it had an auto lose with IG was the most important thing .

[Smurfalypse]

Now i read most of this, so forgive me if i say something already stated, but i see this new codex as a ray of hope. Would you rather that GW kept going the same way as the Chaos Codex, or they change things and go a different way offering us lost of customising and options. Yes i know it sucks that the Chaos Codex isn't that good, but i hope we can agree that we would rather see a change for the better then keep going down the dark path what no one seems to like.

for the sake of balance and tournament play I would rather have all dexs at more or less the same lvl .

 

 

I saw a few other chaos players around, mostly IW, i surprisingly was the only daemon bomb there and i played a fluffy version. x6 daemonettes, 8 bloodletters, 10 furies, 7 plaguebearers, 9 flamers, so i wasnt exactly sporting the leet sauce that game

ever tried to play with a demon bomb against all skimer eldar or the old 4th ed nids ? yes demon bomb could pund gunline armies or some other weak builds , but it was not the top tier army out there . the fact it had an auto lose with IG was the most important thing .

 

 

Actually yeah...The first person i played that day was an eldar skimmer list i won by massacrer, though i admit i had some decent luck with my shooting that game. Flamers killed one with some back shots, oblits killed one the first turn then another the second, daemon prince killed one turn two, he had some harlies too, heavy bolters wittled them down to a manageable number. All in all the WE list gave me the most problems, but my defiler made his money that game. Not bragging, just saying its not all about list vs list, this is player vs player.

 

I know what you mean about all the dex's being on the same level, i wish that too but its not the nature of how they release things. Its done one at a time and this causes a pendulum swing. The good news is it looks like they are getting away from the template used for the last few codexs and using something much much more interesting. I am a HUGE HUGE HUGE fan of the HQ choices doing things for your entire list, not just himself being a bad ass. Ork warboss that lets you take nobs or mega nobs as a troops choice, how monstrous is that when you have 2w guys that can hold an objective. The big mek can allow you to take a dread as a troop choice, also monstrous and nifty. Sounds like alot of the HQs in the marine dex are going to do similar things and there are rumors already about necron getting similar rules. The idea of a commander getting a once per game orbital strike is very interesting and this adds a huge amount of flavor and fluff to the games you actually play. I hope they keep on doing this and if it continues in this direction i will 100% forgive GW and the staff for the last few codexs.

 

Just my two cents guys.

[the jeske]

yes but the difference to the ork dex [one of the best GW did in a few years , if you ask me] is that you dont take a cpt /chaos lord /chapter master etc . you have to take a named character . And as count as is out of the question here [games is based around shop games and tournament play etc] , this is going to mean a lot of spam of lists . Also it looks like GW missed some stuff again . If you take two specials [from different chapters 0_o I mean I do get that twins thing with lash princes etc but what two chapter masters are doing in a battle where there is under one company of sm I way beyond me ] you can use only ones chapter tactic [fleet for troops from shriek for example] , but the rules say nothing what happens if one [or even both] characters change the army composition .

 

Will we again hear "we didnt knew players would do that " :yes: .

[WolfLordKejl]

Ya know...I hate to be a total jackass ( okay..I really dont mind). YOU ARE CHAOS PLAYERS!!!!! C'mon man. Overcome the odds. Fight the enemy for the love of blood and battle ..not because you need to win. Take as many of the Emperors servants with you as you can. You just go back to the warp and respawn.

 

I know there are some complaints by every side on every army. Its a game. Enjoy the time with your friends and kill as many as you can.

 

 

Wolf Lord Kejl

[Penmarch']

Just maybe we'll get an equally good codex anytime soon now.

 

I must admit it feels a bit like having a raw wound rubbed with salt. Myriads of options in this codex while Chaos hardly got anything. In fact we lost a lot of things.

 

Even the most blatant idiot must see that there's a huge problem now.

 

However, it might be a good sign. The two latest codex were obviously well thought out and with a lot of variation. We( Chaos players) might still have suffered from the prevous trend ie. oversimplification. Keep your fingers (or tentacles) crossed

[the jeske]

I know there are some complaints by every side on every army

complains to the new ork dex . its just like it should be .sure some stuff should be cheaper but all in all its a dex that allows a player to use many different armies are playable and fun.

Take as many of the Emperors servants with you as you can.

I dont do in character [i understand a lot of amies do ] , people that do that here are seen as crazy [or at a storyline seminar].

 

 

Even the most blatant idiot must see that there's a huge problem now.

for whom ? you play csm this means you already bought those oblits/rhinos /second prince maybe some FW stuff or more csm to convert Pms and zerkers [if not then man you had a rough time gaming with the chaos dex] . Now the new sm dex comes out . if you quit GW already sold you the models , if you move to sm you will have to buy the dex [and let me tell you something GW does a lot of money with selling dexs] and maybe buy some models . For GW its a win/win situation . And that some schmucks cant play legion armies ?? well tough luck to them should have picked BL.

[Smurfalypse]

Ya know...I hate to be a total jackass ( okay..I really dont mind). YOU ARE CHAOS PLAYERS!!!!! C'mon man. Overcome the odds. Fight the enemy for the love of blood and battle ..not because you need to win. Take as many of the Emperors servants with you as you can. You just go back to the warp and respawn.

 

I know there are some complaints by every side on every army. Its a game. Enjoy the time with your friends and kill as many as you can.

 

 

Wolf Lord Kejl

 

 

Im a 90% glass half full kinda guy, you can look at all of my posts about this current issue and see that im very much looking on the bright side of things. I also play VERY VERY fluffly, i probably own more possessed in the USA than any other CSM player (45 to be exact) and i run completely undivided. What i dont like is having people who play other armies who have very very customizable dex's and are able to field a HUGE variety of armies within one fluff scheme sit here and tell me to suck it up.

 

Assuming from your user name here you play space wolves, so lets say your dex is ripped away and you are given a dex that lets you play a shell of its former self, you would be up in arms ready to quit or play a different army. Either way you would definitely mention it on forums from time to time. So please, dont act high and mighty to people who just want to use the models they have purchased with their own hard earned money (for those of us who work for a living and dont live in mommys basement, not saying you do). I have about 500 dollars worth of daemons sitting in boxes on shelves that i cant use with my word bearers. And before it gets mentioned...NO I DO NOT WANT TO PLAY CODEX DAEMONS.

 

Again, just to clarify...Im VERY VERY excited about the new marine codex coming out. I was very very excited and happy with the ork codex that came out, this whole thing shows that they are getting away from codexs like dark angels, blood angels, and chaos space marines. They are headed in a new better direction (i hope), and im very excited to play against the new marine stuff. The way they are making new HQs is just simply amazing in my opinion. The idea of an HQ who isnt just a whoop butt single guy on the board and instead is someone who leads his army and adds other leadership abilities or support abilities to the armies scope of things is just an awesome idea.

 

Just my two cents...sorry if i got a little agitated, but im kinda sick of being told everything is cool with DA/BA/CSM codexs when there is something obviously flawed with all three of them. Nothing personal and i do play for fun and i do play with friends, but that shouldnt mean thtat i dont like options or a codex that is deserving of the greatest enemy of mankind.