Cyrox Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I've just been through the RT book and my 2nd edition 40k stuff, and it would seem from the various fluff that all 20 Legions did take part in the great crusade, but only 18 legions were present at the time of the heresy - 9 loyal and 9 traitor. My theory is the events (if any) occurred sometime during the Great crusade, probably early on as you have Horus' comments during his vison when he saw capsule XI and spoke of "untapped glories that lay within, knowing they would never come to pass" We can go on about this forever... its a great topic lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Admiral Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 does anyone have a copy of the 4th Ed Codex to hand? (I think it's that) Where it has a list of the Legions the two 'missing' legions are not blank, but fuzzed out, if I recall correctly you can see the length and ammount of words in both the primarch and the legion's names Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razrhaghul Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 they messed those up something badly. you can't even see the length as the letters are so distorted, twisted and in some places just a speckle of font. i've been wondering if the legions participated, but the primarchs did not. we have instances where Lorgar, Magnus, Lion all landed on worlds that had some connection with chaos cultists, knowingly or unknowingly. it would make me wonder if a primarch could have landed on a planet with a population so devout to chaos, that they grew up in absolute servitude to the dark powers...the legions would still be useful but the Primarch would have to be purged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrox Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Hmmm i'll have to have a look at the 4th edit book when i get home, sounds interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 As a person who plays Fantasy, with lizardmen, empire, and highelves, and a 40k player of eldar and space wolves I think I can tell you something about the connection between Warhmmer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k. Its the old ones. They had the ability to manipulate time and space. The great gates that were placed on the northern and southern poles of the world of WHFB are similar to eldar webway gates- some of wich can take you through time as well as space, and whos ability to transfer you to one place or another is unaffected by being on other dimensions. Chaos entered when that webway gate busted. The reason it busted was the war that was going on between the old ones and the necrons. The old ones made alot of psycker races, including humans, and this led to demons entering the world in greater numbers.... and swarming. They attacked and beseiged the old ones and the necrontyr, putting the latter into a form of stasis and wiping out most of the former. The old ones on the world of WHFB fled to their homes, cutting off their slaan servants who were unable to keep the webways open on a dimensional level as they simply couldnt face the demon hordes in their fury. Eventually the slaan and the high elves combined abilities syphoned off the chaos energies that would have enveloped the planet. The world stabilized a bit and life returned to normal. Orcs, feral orcs that is entered without the old ones intent, by they had been so well crafted that their spores were simply unrevocable in their presence.... and so orcs infest the planet to this day and follow a different evolutionairy path than 40k orcs due to the lack of intercession by the brain boys some thousands of years later. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracoDarco Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 first of all the one race that the old ones DIDNT create was humans also im gonna throw a few theories that havent been touched on first, what if omegon was a primarch or was counted as one i dont see why he couldn't be one who's legion was destroyed during the great crusade so his brother allowed him to work with him. Second my crazy idea, the night haunter and Konrad Curze are the other primarch... what if the warp combined the minds of two of the primarchs creating the hinted upon split personality of Konrad... i know this is most likely wrong but, im just throwing it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Knight Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 What about the possibility that the Custodes are one of the legions and the Mysterious Grey Knights are actually the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Imperial Knight Posted Today, 06:45 AM What about the possibility that the Custodes are one of the legions and the Mysterious Grey Knights are actually the other? The Custodes were created before the Legions, and the Grey Knights were created after the missing Legions had vanished from the Emperor's geneseed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Mitchell Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 maybe one of the primarchs and unnamed legions is the grey knights cus it says in there codex they can never be known to anyone else, so maybe thats where they went and in the hh books when horus(may the warp preserve him) said about the glory things maybe hes saying that then will never be known.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Knight Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 maybe one of the primarchs and unnamed legions is the grey knights cus it says in there codex they can never be known to anyone else, so maybe thats where they went and in the hh books when horus(may the warp preserve him) said about the glory things maybe hes saying that then will never be known.... That was my point with the Grey Knights, it is assumed they are 2nd founding but what if their primarch was a powerful pyscher and thus need to be kept a secret. The Custodes was a stretch I know, but the Grey Knights have enough unclearified info that it is a possibility, but if all else fails there is the Iron Hearts and the Validictors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Skaav Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 It has been suggested that the Blood Ravens having little knowledge of their history, could be from at least a lost founding, if not the 1st (which I myself very much doubt, as there would be at least mention of another legion like the Thousand Sons even if not by name) But the concept has been brought up in conversation's I've had on this subject, that the Blood Ravens are 1st founding, and are one of the missing legions (hence not knowing who they come from), but like I said, I have my doubts, because GW would retcon that idea very quickly, I would say they are more 13th founding style actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Knight Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I am all for a touch of mystery but i think it is close to time that GW clarifies this once and for all. No DIY maker worth his salt will actually make a DIY that is one of the lost legions it just shows a lack of creativity and poor writing. I personally would not mind if they did decide to go with some of the BL stuff and name the Iron Hearts and the Validictors as the missing two legions. And lets look at the big picture here, even if the 2 legions returned as mighty as they would be ultimately they would be equivalent of 20-30 chapters, which while very powerful in the grand scheme of 40K may or may not turn the tide. There are 1000 other chapters out there which is at least the equivalent of 100 legions and the universe is still in turmoil. I would just like to see if fluffed out that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kea Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 one of my local GW staff said he read a short story about WFB that had a bit about a one eyed red giant coming aout of a warp storm(mangus) and chaos wariors wilding an advanced type of gun(bolters) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Skaav Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 one of my local GW staff said he read a short story about WFB that had a bit about a one eyed red giant coming aout of a warp storm(mangus) and chaos wariors wilding an advanced type of gun(bolters) Sounds more like something that was written in the Liber Chaotica book for Tzeentch, one of his Sorcerers in the WFB world dreamt supposedly, of a Giant, with a single eye and red skin, and his Knights who carried strange weapons that "breathed flame". It seems logical this is where the Staff member you speak of read it, but I think some might not count it as Canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orphanfeast99 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 one of the lost liegions was from all the way back in rouge trader, they where the Rainbow warriors, removed form "imperial record" (GW product line) for fairly obvious reason :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 @Gil Galed: Alpharius / Omegon ~ May be dead, may be alive who knows (hopefully alive and loyal) Alpharius is dead, killed by Roboute Guillimon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 No evidence for that nurglepuss, even the Ultramarines arn't sure Alpharius was killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherZaah Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Just a thought, but maybe they were two Primarchs that didnt join the Emperor on his crusade? You know, the whole, Emperor Decends from the heavens, bests Primarch X in some contest or other, primarch bows to Emperor, crusade rolls on. Maybe these two were like "No, we'll stay here. We like it here" Wether they were left alone, or killed by the Emperor because they'd challenge his sovreignty who knows? the 2nd one would have been recorded by the dark angels (being the 1st legion and all) And we all know how open and friendly they are. The 11th, well thats something different, but in those days if the Emperor decided to kill someone and tell you to ignore what he just did then who the hell are you to argue? But IMO I believe they were left out as a nod to the romans, but these days purely to keep people guessing and thinking about the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Skaav Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Just a thought, but maybe they were two Primarchs that didnt join the Emperor on his crusade? You know, the whole, Emperor Decends from the heavens, bests Primarch X in some contest or other, primarch bows to Emperor, crusade rolls on. Maybe these two were like "No, we'll stay here. We like it here" Wether they were left alone, or killed by the Emperor because they'd challenge his sovreignty who knows? the 2nd one would have been recorded by the dark angels (being the 1st legion and all) And we all know how open and friendly they are. The 11th, well thats something different, but in those days if the Emperor decided to kill someone and tell you to ignore what he just did then who the hell are you to argue? But IMO I believe they were left out as a nod to the romans, but these days purely to keep people guessing and thinking about the hobby. Sorry BrotherZaah, I don't understand what you mean when you say "a nod to the Romans" what does that mean? Did the Romans have missing legions in their army too, and I know what I'm asking has nothing to do with 40K as such, I'm simply trying to make a connection between the 2 lost legions and the Romans, so I won't stray too far from the original topic idea. But in all, I think like I've said before, that we will never ever learn the true identities of the two lost legions, and why they were expunged from the records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Imperial Knight Posted Yesterday, 06:40 PM That was my point with the Grey Knights, it is assumed they are 2nd founding but what if their primarch was a powerful pyscher and thus need to be kept a secret. The Custodes was a stretch I know, but the Grey Knights have enough unclearified info that it is a possibility, but if all else fails there is the Iron Hearts and the Validictors. Yes, the Grey Knights 'Primarch' is a powerful psyker - its the Emperor. The Grey Knights take their gene-seed directly from the Emperor. That is the official rumour as stated in Codex Daemonhunters. (I think I've mentioned this in this thread already). The Grey Knights are not one of the Lost Legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 2 lost legions = romans is because of the two Roman legions that were stricken from the army becuase they were destroyed by barbarians. depending on which stories you hear/read there was one in northern england and one in germany (i think - been a long time since I did much reading on the subject). only problem in the grey knights taking their geneseed from the emperor is that he HAS no geneseed. He doesnt have the additional organs, or the progenoids, to create geneseed... Given the emperors treatment of Angron, I doubt that the missing two primarchs decided to stay on their worlds and were subsequently disowned/removed from the records - not to mention the fact that all 20 were found and participated in the great crusade. That particular line is consistent in every related bit of fluff I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Leonaides Posted Today, 09:14 PM only problem in the grey knights taking their geneseed from the emperor is that he HAS no geneseed. He doesnt have the additional organs, or the progenoids, to create geneseed... Thats probably why its official rumour only. You expect GW to think these things through? :woot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigger-than-Jesus Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 1/Grey Knights AREN'T a lost legion, they were either founded using the Emperor's Geneseed or the geneseed of loyalists from the traitor legions. 2/To those who think Horus killed one in a vision(you know, like seeing something in your head) I would like to point you to the top of page 12 of the new cdex space marines More than one of the capsules was breached while it drifted through Warpspace-the forces of the Warp leaked in, wreaking havoc to the developing genetc mateial inside the capsule. Undoubtedly damage was done, although the nature of that damage would not become aparent until the Horus Heresy Sorry mods if it's against the rules, not sure if I took too much. 3/Legion mentions one Primarch overstepping their bounds and the audiobook has been repeatedly reported as saying two statues of the Primarchs(II and XI) were removed while those of the Traitors had been covered up with sheets. 4/Sigmar was born and didn't come from a capsule, and he grew up the same as a normal child instead of the accelerated growth the Primarchs enjoyed. He was also never stated(AFAIK) to have been like 9-10 foot tall. 5/I could be wrong, but wasn't the Rubineck thing ment to have been a mistake from a freelancer or something, and he was actually a chapter master? 6/All 20 legions and Primarchs have been mentioned as having taken part in the Crusade My theory(a lot shorter than my disproving yoke lol): The missing Primarchs had something of a Crisis of faith-they became disenchanted with the Emperors belief that all humanity should bow to him regardless of how they felt-they had no right to their own Identity as a Culture or Religion or anything, instead they got to be ruled by some lad with a massive ego and shiney toys for his mates. Big E couldn't handle that, so he disowned his sons and their lads and made them Taboo to talk about.The lack of mention wouldn't be so much as no one remembers them, just that they don't want anyone else to know about them. It works in my head anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrox Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Yeah GW were quick to mention that Rubinek was Chapter Master of the Iron Hearts, and not the Primarch. If they did come out and say "Ok, Chapter 2 is the Iron Hearts" I wouldn't mind as long as there was good background :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templar Rage Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Could be the Blood Ravens, they appeared from nowhere and have no known Primarch - everyone assumes they are Loyal Sons but to me it is far more likely that they are descended from one of the unknown Primarchs as I doubt the Imperium would allow blood relations of Heretics to exists without persecution. Let’s be honest, GW only cares about making money these days (see new website and price hikes) so they will one day release these legions so the fan boys waste their money buying them. Honestly it’s getting a joke, I can’t even step into my store without being asked “buy this” “buy that” even when they know I don’t collect those armies and neither have the time or the inclination to do so – so yeah they will release everything they possible can to make as much money as possible. I mean the company’s convention “Games-Day” is just a big store trying to sell you stuff, it does nothing for the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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