The Curse of Dan Abnett

[Dammeron]

I must admit, for me the Horus Heresy books are not great literature; they are not even "science fiction" in its most literal definition; they are more "science fantasy;" taking the standard tropes and themes of mythological fiction (a la the Lord of the Rings) and transplanting them into a futuristic dystopia as opposed to exploring any genuine consequences of scientific advancement or discovery. There is absolutely no way they even approach the craftsmanship or depth of, say, Phillip K. Dick's work, or William Gibson's.

 

They are just harmless, quite fun pulpy sci fi, as is pretty much everything the Black Library puts out. Some of them are better than others, but none of them are exactly shining examples of writing as a craft or art form. One of the consistent sins of the series is that they over describe, using adjectives when they are unnecessary, and often three or four when one or none at all is sufficient. They are also evidently padded out to fulfil a particular page quota; many have story arcs that don't go anywhere or feed into the primary narrative; they just fizzle out, because that's all they're designed to do. A particularly pertinent example of this is Fallen Angels. The "real" story of this book is the stuff that occurs on Caliban; the rest is just padding, and boy can you feel it.

 

that's not to say the HH books or Black Library stuff in general is bad; it does what it says on the tin. It's literary fast food; a bit of cheap, harmless indulgence, but I'd be wary of advertising it as anything more than that.

[satanaka]

I disagree that Abnett is the best. Abnett usually has at least one issue in his books that makes me question how much established back fluff he's read on the subject he's writing about. I'm not saying he's a bad writer, just that sometimes his back research seems to lack a bit.

 

I'd have to say McNeill and Kyme are the best right now.

[WarSpirit]

Sorry but I also disagree. He is good no doubt about that, but to say he's one of the best of our times is greatly exagerated. We just have to think of Isaac Asimov, father of the robotic concept who was a truly great author. He's just one exemple amongs many other greats, Frank Herbert being one of my favorites.

[Godspear]

I must admit, for me the Horus Heresy books are not great literature; they are not even "science fiction" in its most literal definition; they are more "science fantasy;" taking the standard tropes and themes of mythological fiction (a la the Lord of the Rings) and transplanting them into a futuristic dystopia as opposed to exploring any genuine consequences of scientific advancement or discovery. There is absolutely no way they even approach the craftsmanship or depth of, say, Phillip K. Dick's work, or William Gibson's.

 

They are just harmless, quite fun pulpy sci fi, as is pretty much everything the Black Library puts out. Some of them are better than others, but none of them are exactly shining examples of writing as a craft or art form. One of the consistent sins of the series is that they over describe, using adjectives when they are unnecessary, and often three or four when one or none at all is sufficient. They are also evidently padded out to fulfil a particular page quota; many have story arcs that don't go anywhere or feed into the primary narrative; they just fizzle out, because that's all they're designed to do. A particularly pertinent example of this is Fallen Angels. The "real" story of this book is the stuff that occurs on Caliban; the rest is just padding, and boy can you feel it.

 

that's not to say the HH books or Black Library stuff in general is bad; it does what it says on the tin. It's literary fast food; a bit of cheap, harmless indulgence, but I'd be wary of advertising it as anything more than that.

 

If one can say anything about Lord of the Rings, it is that those books are anything but standard. Tolkien set the bar, with regard to fantasy. The Old English representation of the planet Venus escapes me at the moment, but that utterance was his basis for creating Middle Earth. There are entire pantheons and social hierarchies that existed in Northern Europe that have been lost to history. A perfect example are Tolkien's Worgs. The worg is a recreation of the Old English wearga, a creature that appears in several pieces of Germanic literature. Now, physical descriptions weren't important to the denizens of Northern Europe, at the time, so we have no idea what these creatures were supposed to have looked like. The Germanic people were, however interested in deeds. So, looking at one of my Old English texts, entitled, 'A Vision From Hell,' they are described as devouring those full of 'world-lust,' at the edge of hell, before casting their mangled souls into the black seas below this cliff that's supposed to represent the entrance to the underworld. So, Tolkien took the idea of a ravenous, bloodthirsty creature, and gave it flesh. Also, the Oxford Inklings were adept at tying the social disarray of the time period into their works, and the representations thereof are very subtly presented to the reader. This keeps the story entertaining. One may read it for the fantasy or read it for the analysis, but either way, it's using the lost mythos of the ancient Germanic tribes to represent the geopolitical upheaval of the time period in which Tolkien wrote. I would argue that Tolkien's works were more modernist than they were fantastic. The metaphor is simply more deeply seated. So, there aren't really any standard tropes to Tolkien because nobody's done it the same way he did it. They just copied and pasted a bunch of big honkin' wolves to their manuscript and called it homage.

[Magnus Thane]

Dan Abnett = win.

C.S. Gotto = toliet paper

 

I actually enjoyed the first 2 Blood Raven novels. :rolleyes:

[Ubermensch Commander]

I think judging the series from Abnett's writing is a mistake because some of us may feel he IS NOT the best writer for Black Library. I CERTAINLY do not feel he is the best sci fi/fantasy writer of our time, even though I do like his work. His work in Marvel comics recently, such as with Guardians of the Galaxy, has been excellent and engrossing. But not all his work is good or rather not everyone agrees on which works are good and which are not.

 

I think the concept of Legion is utter :cusse. I tried reading it and simply could not.

I chewed through Brothers of the Snake and found myself decidedly unthrilled.

 

Now other folks on this forum and others have sung the praises of these books. I disagree. *shrug*

 

So using Abnett as a "benchmark" author is fine, only in the sense of which HH book one enjoyed the most. Comparing other authors to him should be done cautiously.

 

So, yeah, I do not think that the other authors exist in the shadows of Abnett, unless one expects Abnett's writing style from them.

 

 

A trend I find interesting is how one author can do so well with one book and then "flub" the next.

 

James Swallow shocked me with Flight of the Eisenstein, since I found his other books to be utter garbage. His Sisters of Battle Novel I stopped reading less than halfway through when the SoB broke down crying because a heretic whispered in her ear.

Blood Angels books...ick. "Yessum mistah inquisitor suh! I gets right on that!" "Civil War time! WHEEE!"

 

Really I think the only objective measurement we can all agree on is that CS Goto cannot write to save his/her life. :rolleyes:

[Battle-Captain Garro]

Without a doubt, Dan Abnett is GW's best writer and perhaps one of the best sci-fi authors of our times. i adore his work and have never read anything from him that was below a level of excellence.

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I unashamedly worship at the altar of Dan Abnett, he is the master. It is his writing that has inspired my own. Graham McNeill is good and second only to Dan Abnett. I too wish that Dan had written the whole Horus Heresy series. Sorry if I got fan juice over anyone, don't worry it will come out in the wash ;)

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Dan Abnett is the finest I have read, and I havn't read everything by everyone, although in my opinion he does better with non-PA stuff!

[Pulse]

Dan Abnett has discussed is the best writer the BL have, by a huge margin. As for Graham McNeill, i think (apart from the last church) he is past his sell by date.

 

Nick Kyme is the man to look out for, his book Salamander is very well written, edgey, detailed and fast paced.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Dan Abnett has discussed is the best writer the BL have, by a huge margin. As for Graham McNeill, i think (apart from the last church) he is past his sell by date.

 

Nick Kyme is the man to look out for, his book Salamander is very well written, edgey, detailed and fast paced.

Agreed completely.

[Terrible_Trygon]

Don't worry OP. I think Dan Abnett is the best author of 40k books, and because all other books are not about 40k, that makes them lame, therefore Dan Abnett is the best writer of all time. A logical conclusion, yes?

[Kodanshi]

I think Graham McNeil surpassed Abnett in terms of literary value in Fulgrim, and also in the level of complexity and emotion he brought to the characters

 

Really? I'll have to pick that one up and read it then. As a newcomer to Warhammer 40K I've only read the first two books of the HH so far, and McNeill's False Gods made me laugh derisively at it. Monty Python-esque characters that made me go <_< and I really disliked the way he ruined the complexity and emotion Abnett brought to Horus's character. That rant near the start, where Horus mentions immortality and then namedrops Erebus, jarred so badly as a plot device without relaying any of the emotion leading up to it... I hated it!

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Dan Abnett has discussed is the best writer the BL have, by a huge margin. As for Graham McNeill, i think (apart from the last church) he is past his sell by date.

 

Nick Kyme is the man to look out for, his book Salamander is very well written, edgey, detailed and fast paced.

Agreed completely.

 

 

For once, I agree with the Emperors Champion.

 

 

But I am appalled no has mentioned Orson Scott Card. Sure, his sequels need to be burned, but Enders Game and Enders Shadow are without exception the best books I have read. Developed characters, believable worlds, the grit of real life (having all those little things that most authors neglect or do a Tolkein - again, agreeing with TEC), and it makes you look up at the sky and the clouds and see them different than before.

 

 

Dan Abnett is a good writer. As previously mentioned, he does good fight sequences, but he needs to develop his characters more. Legion was an exception to the former, not the latter. HE pulled off the sneakiness fairly well and delivered an excellent ending, but the only developed character was poor John Grammaticus.

[Pacific81]

Abnett might well be the best writer that BL has now, but as for the best writer for them ever?

 

I still firmly believe that Space Marine by Ian Watson is the best ever book concerned with the 40k universe.

 

It will become available again soon thanks to the new re-publishing options of BL, and I can't recommend strongly enough to the younger guys on the forum to try and get hold of it when it does :)

[SamaNagol]

Ian Watson's first few books were by far the best 40k novels in existence.

 

But then I think Angels of Darkness is one of the best as well.

[Gregory]

One of the best things that the HH series has done is getting at least some of the authors colaberating closely, which has resulted in improved story telling across the board,

[Lt. Smash]

Best BL writer William King, mainly for the Space Wolf series.

Best BL series Gaunts Ghosts.

Best Sci-Fi Writer of all time...

 

Can't tell, time hasn't ended yet.

 

Oh yeah, Gaunts Ghosts made me look at the clouds diffrently.

When I finished the Saint, and went outside, the clouds all looked like Lijah Cuu.

 

Fething Maniac.

[Guest]

While I agree that Dan Abnett is an exceptionally talented author, in my opinion Graham McNeill and James Swallows have written heresy books just as good if not better than what Dan has written so far.

 

Not Ben Counter though... I dread the thought of him writing another Heresy novel.

[Tyear]

For me, there haven't been that many 'Great' BL writers, though who I wouldn't mind seeing take a shot at the HH novels is Anthony Reynolds, the writer of the 'Dark' (Word Bearers) Trilogy. Sure the fluff's not turned all the way up to the max, but they have a good double of fluff and read-ability, which some writers, Swallow I'm looking at you buddy, seem to miss.

 

So far my Favorite 'books' (These will include Omnibus' (spell-check?) for WH40k have been:

The Word Bearer Trilogy, Storm of Iron and Angels of Darkness. Those are really the 'novels' that have stuck with me.

 

As far as the HH novels that's fairly easy:

Horus Rising, Flight of the Eisenstein (Swallow's double must have written this), Descent of Angels (grabs the flame-proof blankie)

 

Writer-wise, heck, Abnett is good I'll give him that but he's certainly not my favorite writer. As mentioned above, McNeil, Reynolds and Thorpe (though he doesn't write anymore, correct right?), would definitely give him a run for his money.

 

Now if I have to grab some of the WHF crew, Nathan Long I'd love to see him write something like the Blackhearts, though maybe with Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts.. do we really need a third IG unit, though this one made out of misfits?

[Seahawk]

do we really need a third IG unit, though this one made out of misfits?

Already been written by Thorpe: The Last Chancers.

 

I like Abnett by a long shot, but he's certainly not the best writer out in the business.

[Gree]

Abnett's my favourite author. I loved Gaunt's Ghosts, Horus Rising, Double Eagle and Eisenhorn. Disliked Brothers of the snake. Legion was good except for the end. Nick Kyme is second only to Abnett, I loved Salamander.

 

Steve Parker and Anthony Reynolds actually trail behind them. All of their novels I have enjoyed so far. McNeill is a hit and miss author for me. I liked Fulgrim, Warriors of Ultramar, Mechanicum and Storm of Iron. The rest of his books ranged from mediocre to poor.

 

The only books I really liked from Ben Counter were Grey Knights and Hammer of Daemons. The rest are mediocre.

[Walter Payton]

Don't forget Aaron Dembski-Bowden. His short-story in heroes of the SMs is great, as is the Soul Hunter teaser in the free catalogue. I am looking forward to The First Heretic.

[Gree]

Don't forget Aaron Dembski-Bowden. His short-story in heroes of the SMs is great, as is the Soul Hunter teaser in the free catalogue. I am looking forward to The First Heretic.

 

and of course him, however I'm still waiting on seeing his Soul Hunter series before I form an opinion on his writing style.

[Walter Payton]

By the way. Look out for username A D-B on this forum. It's him.

[Gree]

By the way. Look out for username A D-B on this forum. It's him.

 

I've already talked to him in the chaos forums. He's a nice guy.