King Tiger Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 That doesn't make sense. FW stuff is endorsed by GW. yeah unfortunately even though the books say you can use them without permission, you still need permission, thanks to the tiny minds of tournament organizers and some players Therefore you can use a FW dreadnought as long as it has codex approved upgrades and weapons but you cant use say a Land Raider prometheus otehr then apoc games. why Apoc games only?, you can use them in none apoc games as well but they are still not allowed in 40k games in general. stop saying things that are not true, FW stuff is allowed in general games of 40k, nowhere does it say FW stuff is Apoca'cheese'lypse only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- 7eAL - Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 That doesn't make sense. FW stuff is endorsed by GW. yeah unfortunately even though the books say you can use them without permission, you still need permission, thanks to the tiny minds of tournament organizers and some players Therefore you can use a FW dreadnought as long as it has codex approved upgrades and weapons but you cant use say a Land Raider prometheus otehr then apoc games. why Apoc games only?, you can use them in none apoc games as well but they are still not allowed in 40k games in general. stop saying things that are not true, FW stuff is allowed in general games of 40k, nowhere does it say FW stuff is Apoca'cheese'lypse only You're from Chavland. It's much easier for you to say, because Forgeworld models seem to be more popular and more common in the UK than they are in North America and the rest of the world. Most players on the other side of the Atlantic won't give permission for Forgeworld models unless they have their own as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 That doesn't make sense. FW stuff is endorsed by GW. yeah unfortunately even though the books say you can use them without permission, you still need permission, thanks to the tiny minds of tournament organizers and some players Therefore you can use a FW dreadnought as long as it has codex approved upgrades and weapons but you cant use say a Land Raider prometheus otehr then apoc games. why Apoc games only?, you can use them in none apoc games as well but they are still not allowed in 40k games in general. stop saying things that are not true, FW stuff is allowed in general games of 40k, nowhere does it say FW stuff is Apoca'cheese'lypse only You're from Chavland. It's much easier for you to say, because Forgeworld models seem to be more popular and more common in the UK than they are in North America and the rest of the world. Most players on the other side of the Atlantic won't give permission for Forgeworld models unless they have their own as well. thats not the point, nowhere does it say FW items are apoca'cheese'lypse anywhere and if people on the other side of the atlantic or anywhere won't give permission for FW units (units which don't need Permission cus my book says so) just because they don't have one themselves then there pathetic, my space marines don't have Monoliths or Avatars or wraithlords, so by that same logic my opponent can't use them, sounds more to me like there just brats who like to make sure nobody has fun, or there just a bunch of whiny cowards. :devil: thank god I don't live and play over there or with people like that then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I don't go to tournements just for those reasons... Playing a game should be more than a mental challenge. It should be fun. Fortunately, my gaming group allows FW models (loves them, actually). So, I'm anxious to see what they do for my GKs!!! Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 and if people on the other side of the atlantic or anywhere won't give permission for FW units (units which don't need Permission cus my book says so) just because they don't have one themselves then there pathetic, my space marines don't have Monoliths or Avatars or wraithlords, so by that same logic my opponent can't use them, sounds more to me like there just brats who like to make sure nobody has fun, or there just a bunch of whiny cowards no man it stops people from lets say brining mass flyers to normal games/tournaments as normally 99,99% armies cant do nothing about that [am continental EU ] .Sure stuff like centaurs[mini tank bombs for IG] are cool , but in many cases while people are likelly to spend cash to get those from UK , not many have all the IA and the FAQ's to them . And if they dont have the books how can you check , how many pts they cost , what are the special rules etc . And lets not forget some of the IA stuff may be cool and just for fun , but even GW understood that some stuff was made to powerful or too cheap . that why they nerfed the hellfire mortars . those + macharius [special character again from IA, in the 3ed was legal for normal play] were an auto win against any form of infantry based list and had a more then a fair chance against mecha lists [ and with siege company rules =when all those + medusa siege guns could fire once before the battle they were even more powerful]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 The problem with forge world models is that the rules are not available. Lets be honest, how many FW rules are written for 5th ed, and where is the faq detailing their use on the GW site? Insisting you can use a FW rule, which maybe the FW book says is fine, is the same as pulling out an old codex written by GW, that also will state is legal to use in games (like trying to use the old Blood Angel book instead of the new one off the web) Also, isnt most of the FW rules being updated to apoc scale? For instance, the Space Marine HQ command rhino (damocles?) that grants the barrage asset for like 60 points is NOT balanced for regular games, yet is the most recent rules set for that forge world model. The only way to really bring FW stuff into mainstream play is to make all the rules available for free off of GW's site, with GW faqs to go along with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle-Captain Garro Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Let me see if I've got this right, GW are shelving the forces of the Inquisition for the forseeable future? I have a 3000+ point Grey Knight army, am I supposed to use the old codex or is the army no longer usable until a new codex comes out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Well, I suppose you've been living under a rock for a few months, but yes! Feel free to sign the petition on this forum! Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 how can you check Show them your Imperial Armour book and let them check the points and etc themselves. You're supposed to bring any appropriate codices to any game you go to, friendly or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Scout Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 how can you check Show them your Imperial Armour book and let them check the points and etc themselves. You're supposed to bring any appropriate codices to any game you go to, friendly or not. Indeed, finally some common sence !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 how can you check Show them your Imperial Armour book and let them check the points and etc themselves. You're supposed to bring any appropriate codices to any game you go to, friendly or not. Indeed, finally some common sence !!! its a rare thing indeed @the jeske: and if an opponent wants to bring mass flyers (or 3) then let them, they can't capture or contest objectives, they take up precious heavy support slots, there unreliable and are fragile, I'd rather face 3 lightnings or thunderbolts than 3 leman russ any day, once those bombs/missiles are fired what else are they gonna do?, not much. nothing from FW is overpowered anyway, is a vanquisher? hell no, not at those pts costs, maybe a Earthshaker platform?...oh wait it can't move to escape danger, what about a medusa?...oh wait rubbish range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle-Captain Garro Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Well, I suppose you've been living under a rock for a few months, but yes! Feel free to sign the petition on this forum! Phil No not under a rock but I have been concentrating on my Iron Hands army. Where is the petition and what is the answer to my question? Can I use the old codex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- 7eAL - Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 @the jeske: and if an opponent wants to bring mass flyers (or 3) then let them, they can't capture or contest objectives, they take up precious heavy support slots, there unreliable and are fragile, I'd rather face 3 lightnings or thunderbolts than 3 leman russ any day, once those bombs/missiles are fired what else are they gonna do?, not much. nothing from FW is overpowered anyway, is a vanquisher? hell no, not at those pts costs, maybe a Earthshaker platform?...oh wait it can't move to escape danger, what about a medusa?...oh wait rubbish range Yes, Forgeworld rules are much more balanced than anything from Apocalypse. In some cases, Forgeworld rules are even underpowered or overpriced for what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyriel Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 But still the fact remains, you need your opponents permision to field FW stuff in a normal 40k army. Now as long as people take sensible things from the FW line and its a sensible opponent everything ill be fine but sadly not all people can affort FW units together with FW "codexes". FW units are made to spice up gameplay and add som fluff fun IF both players agree to this, not to give unfair advantages to players with fat wallets. Tournament games also only allow for codex units. Remember the most important rule in 40k gaming B O T H players are supposed to have fun and if one person doesnt feel its fun to face a titan in a 1000p game then bummer, the FW owner has to fold. Personally I´d ratehr meet 3 leman russes and 3 bassilisks then 2 titans with D weapons and gigantic S9 AP2 piepaltes of doom in a 1700p battle. It is not fun to face for the guy who only had 30 grey knights and 2 dreadnoughts in his 1700p army and thus opponents permission is needed. To clearify things. Yes you CAN ue your FW units, tanks but the opponent must agree to this. The Armoured Company list on pages 70 to 85 of White Dwarf 296 can only be used as written. I can find no mention that it is considered an Imperial Guard army for the use of Forge World tanks from the Imperial Armour Volume 1 hardback book. This does mean that you are restricted to the tanks mentioned in the army list and using doctrine points does not entitle you to use tanks from the Forge World Imperial Armour book (with the exception of the tanks already included in the list). However there is no reason why you could not take one of the tanks from Imperial Armour book and include it in your Armoured Company as an appropriate Force organisation chart choice for the cost of 1 doctrine point to represent their rare status. For example the Executioner could be a 0-1 Elites choice (to represent their rare status) for a Tank Ace. Forge World tanks are not necessarily ask your opponents permission - it is just that they do not go through the same development process as our Codex's and army books. It does boil down to discussing with your opponent before the game begins for their opinion on the rules but none of the tanks would over-balance the game (maybe with the exception of Super Heavy tanks!). Since these rules are not put through the design process, it does mean that tournament organisers will often be against their use in tournament games. More about how legal the rules are can be read on page 7 of the Imperial Armour Volume 1 hardback book by Forge World. Rather than using the White Dwarf Armoured Company list, why not use the Armoured Battlegroup list on pages 256 to 270 of the Imperial Armour Volume 1 book? This list has already got the forge World tanks in mind and an army list to go with them! The only thing you would be missing out on would be the doctrines but you do end up with a greater choice of vehicles. The rule that both players must agree to having FW models in a 40k game is written in the book... Imperial Armour 1 - Pg 7 "Using This book", 2nd Paragraph... "...when can i use my Forge World models, are they 'legal'? The real answer to this is that it is solely up to the players involved in the game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredWing Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Well, I suppose you've been living under a rock for a few months, but yes! Feel free to sign the petition on this forum! Phil No not under a rock but I have been concentrating on my Iron Hands army. Where is the petition and what is the answer to my question? Can I use the old codex? Yes, C:DH is still valid and can still be used, however it should be noted that there are some quite significant discrepancies in there but hopefully there should be a FAQ coming out soon, maybe real sson if rumours are to be believed (sounds like it's caught in a warp storm somewhere and if that's the case it might be out today, tomorrow, next week, or even sometime last month!!!). As for uniting with the rest of the =][= forces out here, well, the link is below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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