jakehunter52 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 So, because of my frustration with the 5th edition FAQ, I was determined to make my voice heard. So I sent the following email to GW Legal (Feel free to skip it, I am including it for completion sake): Sir, I write to you today as a concerned player of your fine games. I have been playing Warhammer 40,000 for little more than a year now and have also expanded into Warhammer Fantasy. I find the universes you have created for both of the systems to be very engaging, to really facilitate the game experience that it require little of me to become immersed and excited when this is the topic. Particularly, I enjoy Warhammer 40,000 a lot for it's grim and desperate outlook on the future of humanity and in such, I take pleasure in being one to fight for the continued survivial of the human race. My first army was Daemonhunters, the prospect in getting to fight as the Emperor's finest, to purge Daemon and evil from the galaxy, to have faith being your guide and strength, to be the proverbial knight was quite exciting. On top of that, the models were incredible, each a work of art in itself. And later on, I would expand myself into the other branch of the Inquisition that you offer, the Witch Hunters. Their models and background was equally rich and yet the army offered a unique play style with their mid-range Sisters of Battle, not so specialized but much better than the average joe. However, as I have come to understand the game more and been acquainted with the workings of GW, I have been disappointed in your support of this army. In Apocalypse, you released several apocolypse sheets for every army, trying to fulfill your promise of supporting each army. However, Daemonhunters recieved only a single datasheet (two if you count the assassin one) and Witch Hunters only a single rule in the later Apocalypse Reloaded. Also, in the new 5th Edition rulebook, you promised detailed sections for each army, filled with background and pictures. But their is no dedicated section for either of the two armies I play and even in the model section their were consolidated into "Forces of the Imperium". I felt as if you were rejecting the armies I play, even being so bold as to include the Imperial Pilot from the Battle for McCragg set as if it were actually part of my armies. And furthermore, when you put out the FAQs for each of the armies, I was again disappointed to see that you failed to address many pressing issues that has have left me baffled, such as Sustained Assault for daemon packs, Instability, Heavy 3 Assault Cannons, are my Rhinos self-repairing and more. As of late, I have noticed the trend of making it clear that each codex is self-contained, the rules as written are how you are supposed to play them. However, I am saddened by this because unlike many other great codexes you have produced and have succeeded over time, like the Imperial Guard, Tyrannids and Necrons. Yet Daemonhunters fell quickly and is easily considered the weakest of all armies and according to a statment by Jervis Johnson awhile ago, the Inquistion codexes are on the tail end of a 5 year plan making for a 8 to 9 year gap in updates. However, it seems that you wish for people to overall have fun and have insisted that if I am not satisfied, I should house rule things so that they can be fair. But I feel like that I should not be the one burdened with trying to negotiate rules with my opponent for a half hour every time I play. It is distracting, inconsistent and simply put, tiring. And even more than that, I feel like that this is ultimately your responsibility, to create a rule set that it shouldn't matter which army you play, you will always have an equal chance, so that way you can focus on just enjoying the game. And I don't know if I will want to continue investing in something that can't do this. I have invested quite a lot in this game and want to continue to do so which is why I write to you know. I love my army and simply want to be able to play without having either the inherent disadvantage or task of giving long explanations of house rules. So if you could please respond and let me know what is going on, possibly an updated FAQ or White Dwarf codex to sustain us in the meantime or even update on the redux of the Daemonhunter codex would be appreciated by me and many others. Thanks for taking time to read my concerns and I hope that I can get a response from you sometime soon. Sincerely, Paul Garbe So, today I received a reply from a nice man named Nelson (who also collects DH and WH) who passed my email on to Jervis Johnson. And to summarize what he said (to avoid any legal issues from copy and paste) was that: 1) WH and DH are on the update schedule. However, there are a few other armies need to be done before it. 2) They plan to leave the codexes as is until the update. They feel that interm updates makes things confusing and more harmful than helpful. 3) Andy Hoare :) finished up a large selection of Apocolypse formations for WH which are supposed to be appearing in WD very soon. I will have to say that I am very pleased that Jervis replied to my email and even though I know that he can only tell me things that he can tell everyone else, it is reassuring to know the inner thoughts of GW concerning the armies I play. I understand the whole "having to wait" thing and it is unfortunate that he didn't give a time period but the confirmation that we are there is good. I agree with him that interm updates are not the way to go, I remember how a lot of people despaired at the Warriors of Chaos WD update, how they were bad before but now absolutely worthless. And compared to the army book they got, the interm list did not do them a shred of justice and I feel like it would be the same for us. I am glad to see that Sisters are going to get some love from my favorite person in GW right now and I am excited to see what they came up with. Lastly, I am going to give a shout out for Jervis' sake, I hope that he will be able to sift through all the letters he is about the receive (I saw that they are advertising it on Bell of Lost Souls!) and be able to give you the same personalized replies. I hope that we can express the loyalty for our armies and that we hope that they can reciprocate that. Hope this is good news to you guys too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Yay! They're doing the right thing and separating Sisters and Grey Knights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambro Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Good news!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
templargdt Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Sweet! Good news. I still plan on sending the letter. Maybe we can get the codex update a bit higher on the schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredWing Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 That's some good work there Jake, a sincere well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Good job, sir! I find it nice that top people like Jervis Johnson and Andy Hoare take time to respond to the players. I really think we're introducing, bit by bit, change in GW's thinking! Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 now the next question.... are they going to do anything about deathwatch? there are after all 3 main sections to the =][= forces.... malleus and hereticus are being dealt with... but what of xenos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hinti Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Ah, fine very very good News!! Fine Turn from JJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- 7eAL - Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Yay! They're doing the right thing and separating Sisters and Grey Knights! Since when were they ever together? Right now I'm more concerned that Radicals have still got nothing, and players who don't use the Chambers Militant haven't gotten anything either, and the Deathwatch document is now out of date as well so it can't be used at all anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 They were rumoured, some of the rumours semi-confirmed by GW members, to be one big Inquisition rulebook that was DH/WH/XH in one book-- which I thought was a horrible, horrible idea. I think I said that in your forum a few times, myself, even if I participate in the arguments (Because I like to argue). Yeah, they need to work on radicals, the Inquisition proper, and the deathwatch-- but i'll be honest here, I'm more concerned that the Sisters get expanded and the variou not-so-useful units the Sisters do have are buffed to make them useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I dunno, a battle sister is essentially a cheap marine in power armour with a boltgun, granted a Bs3, but just keep them out of combat, thats how I use them anyway (I usually take a unit or 2 of PAGK's for my CC compliment in a SoB army) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I dunno, a battle sister is essentially a cheap marine in power armour with a boltgun, granted a Bs3, but just keep them out of combat, thats how I use them anyway (I usually take a unit or 2 of PAGK's for my CC compliment in a SoB army) Erm, no? Battle Sisters have Bs4. Actually, Tactical Marines got more out of their cost than Battle Sisters did back in 4E at least. Sisters cost 11 points, Tacs cost 15-- and for those four points, Tactical Marines got +1S, +1T, +tI, and +1Ws in comparison to the Sisters. That, my friend, is a bargain price for such a large increase in stats. It's really only the Exorcist and the Acts of Faith that, when properly used, allow Sisters to be competative in my eyes. Which is sad, considering that mroe than half their army list isn't really that useful in a competative game, even if they're fun and fluffy. Repentia have such wonderful models and fluffy rules, but they're so useless and overpriced. They probably could get away with being HALF the price they currently are and still not be taht great except as massed meat shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter52 Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 I dunno, a battle sister is essentially a cheap marine in power armour with a boltgun, granted a Bs3, but just keep them out of combat, thats how I use them anyway (I usually take a unit or 2 of PAGK's for my CC compliment in a SoB army) Erm, no? Battle Sisters have Bs4. Actually, Tactical Marines got more out of their cost than Battle Sisters did back in 4E at least. Sisters cost 11 points, Tacs cost 15-- and for those four points, Tactical Marines got +1S, +1T, +tI, and +1Ws in comparison to the Sisters. That, my friend, is a bargain price for such a large increase in stats. It's really only the Exorcist and the Acts of Faith that, when properly used, allow Sisters to be competative in my eyes. Which is sad, considering that mroe than half their army list isn't really that useful in a competative game, even if they're fun and fluffy. Repentia have such wonderful models and fluffy rules, but they're so useless and overpriced. They probably could get away with being HALF the price they currently are and still not be taht great except as massed meat shields. I think Mal meant Ws 3 but whatever. And while you are right on the increases (you forgot frag and krak grenades) that they are a bargain increase. However, I think that paying for the vet so we can use faith is quite the bargain, because it make use very versatile and unpredictable, unlike SM where they are much more straight forward. I wouldn't be suprised if they redid the rules on repentia, they are technically part of the soritias and if they are focusing on the Sisters of Battle in the new Witch Hunters, then that could be very good. And I will wonder if they will include rules for the zealots in the new WH codex as well because otherwise Radicals will have a tough time making viable lists. But regardless, I think that it is proper that they focus on the SoB since they are the army proper of the Ecclesiarchy (probably didn't spell that right). But what is more a wild card to me is the DH codex. If they are going to be focusing on the Grey Knights I wonder what they are going to come up with, since they are having to going to make more than just the standard PAGK. It almost sounds like the Dark Eldar codex all over again, having to redo a lot of rules and making essentially a new model range if they want to expand on the GK. But this is all my speculation in why they are taking their time in releasing our codexes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 oops wrong stat listed... that'll teach me!! lol anyhew... as stated, when out of combat, they are effectively a marine for 4 points less!! and thats what I use them as, and when they do get into combat, you can have them in upto 20 strong squads... personally I'd not like the thought of having to charge a 20 strong unit wearing power armour. not without drastically reducing their number in shooting first.... but thats one of the biggest bonuses to sisters, cheap(ish) models with power armour and a boltgun... what more could you ask for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 ... what more could you ask for? CC-oriented support units (Celestians, Repentia, Arco-flagellants, Penitant Engines) that are actually worth their points cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benmothershaw Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 thats all nice :) But I yet to see anything to represent Daemonhunters in the inquisition other than replacements rule helpful for ridiculously kitted GKT squads :D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 personally I'd not like the thought of having to charge a 20 strong unit wearing power armour. not without drastically reducing their number in shooting first let me check . hit on+3 , wound on +3 + any wounds coming from powerfists sgts all attacks coming before the sisters can strike . if it wasnt for the book they would run on the first phase of hth . and 20 man squads are pie plates magnets + hard to move +hard to hide + very very hurt when someone uses eldrad or lash . but they get one turn of awesome rapid fire shoting phase[thats unless they get boged down in hth before they can do that] . yeah awesome . repentia for they do and for what rules they have shouldnt have ever cost more then 10pts . making a sacrificial kamikaze unit , that works as a horde unit , not cheap was just plain crazy move from GW . but my view on repentia is known. As for JJ words . point 1 . well they always say that . if someone like JJ would officially say "we dont plan to change anything durning the first 2/3 years of 5th" the sales would drop [and the sales of inq stuff arent that great anyway]. point 2 . well thats more or less GW policy [on the other hand poor BT have to test for priorty when shoting and BA transports dont have exit pts . I dont know what hurts more . RAW or rules making stuff unplayable]. point 3. well first of all we have to know the definition of large . last time the "large" was 2 options for WH . + while I do understand that apo is still played in the US/UK [i dont know how popular it is . All I know is that people still play it] , it aint played much on the continent and in the eastern europe it aint played at all . So at least for me , that changes nothing. The INQ books part is just the same like the "chaos dex doesnt represent chaos legions very well " . I remember them saying the same stuff about updating orks and DE for years . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marid Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 For the moment, I'd be happy for a "DH 3rd Printing" that would update all of the creaky rules for 5th edition. One GKT costs about as much as a Codex, so another $22 is no big deal. I sure hope they don't make Grey Knight and SOB-only codexes like I've heard a few discuss. I like that ISTs and Inquisitors add a nice non-SM feel to our DH armies. Faith and cheap SOB makes it tough to not take an all-sisters army though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 anyhew... as stated, when out of combat, they are effectively a marine for 4 points less!!Toughness also matters in ranged combat, as they're recieving fire as well. Their power armor might protect them, but they're easier to wound and their heroines are easier to instant death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryptomancer Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Hooray! So we're... exactly where we were before, waiting an uncertain amount of time for an indistinct solution to our rapidly expanding problems. Yes? -Crypto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambro Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 At least they have replied and say that they are working on it, you cant expect them to just drop everything and instantly start working on a new DH codex. It would be nice if they could release somthing official though if they definitly have plans to start work on it. Also looks like theyre doing away with interim updates which I think is a mistake as that would be useful right now as long as they came up with somthing decent rather than just hash it together at a moments notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredWing Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 oops wrong stat listed... that'll teach me!! lol anyhew... as stated, when out of combat, they are effectively a marine for 4 points less!! and thats what I use them as, and when they do get into combat, you can have them in upto 20 strong squads... personally I'd not like the thought of having to charge a 20 strong unit wearing power armour. not without drastically reducing their number in shooting first.... but thats one of the biggest bonuses to sisters, cheap(ish) models with power armour and a boltgun... what more could you ask for? I agree absolutely. Sisters have always been THE experts in short-medium ranged firepower. If they get into CC with a full strength enemy unit then you're playing them all wrong. The additional element that you can field them in such large units only adds to how much punch they can bring to bear with their ranged weaponry. After all a 12+ strong sisters squad will pretty much mince anything on the table that is within rapid fire/template range when you throw in DG as well. Consider the book of St Lucius as well and they have got to be one of the best tarpit units on the table. I gotta say that I consider sisters to be one of the best value troops choices in the game, especially considering how much IST's are in comparison, but I've drifted from the topic somewhat so I'll finish off by saying that as it is the sisters do fare a lot better under 5th ed but the GK's are not what they are supposed to be and a change to these guys is essential to keep their players in the game as there's a lot of GK players out there who are very disillusioned by what they have had taken away or given to others (others as in many of the items in C:SM 5th ed). The GK's are one of the most 'historic' chapters in the 40K universe but currently they are just gathering dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I don't know. The Sisters do fare better in that their troops choice fares batter, but half the codex or more is still not really all that useful. I'll be so glad for when this gets changed... I hope they do some intelligent balancing acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benmothershaw Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I gotta say that I consider sisters to be one of the best value troops choices in the game, especially considering how much IST's are in comparison, but I've drifted from the topic somewhat so I'll finish off by saying that as it is the sisters do fare a lot better under 5th ed but the GK's are not what they are supposed to be and a change to these guys is essential to keep their players in the game as there's a lot of GK players out there who are very disillusioned by what they have had taken away or given to others (others as in many of the items in C:SM 5th ed). The GK's are one of the most 'historic' chapters in the 40K universe but currently they are just gathering dust. Agreed, I see many unfluffy Grey Knight armies who have to turn to Shooting over close combat with pyscannons. And I myself have turned from footslogging Gk's to a Land Raider army which doesn't quite make for great games in terms of fluff and fun, just to win. As far as historic goes, they are legendary but space marines are a older counterpart seen as Grey Knights were designed slightly before pre-heresy. Still least were the emperors chosen and not Gamesworkshops chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marid Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 To be fair, I don't think GKs were intended to be a CC army since they are armed with Storm Bolters. They are supposed to be good at CC, but I don't think they are supposed to be the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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