Battle of the Boyfriends! SM -vs- ORKS

[waaanial00]

There is a difference, if you are talking about eadbang Ork power which is a template assault centred on the Weirdboy then yes he can assign the wound to anyone in the unit as it is resolved as a normal template attack. However if you are talking about his Warpead rolling 11 for perils of the warp then no he has to take the wound on his 2 wound weirdboy and suffer the concenquences.

 

The argument is the same as taking a frag round in a squad with an IC, just because the template hits the IC it does not neccessarily mean that you have to take the wound on the IC.

 

I hope this clears up the confusion.

 

Wan

[Sgt_Dead]

hope the battle report will be up soon, id gotten quite into this thread

 

maybe he lost

 

[sorry to those who rush to see something interesting as the latest reply, only to find this one]

[Spurs]

I must first apologise it has taken me so very long to get this BATREP out to you all. Unfortunately the credit crunch has hit and I was out of work for 6 weeks so my priorities changed somewhat. I’m back in work now so I can finally be paid to write this report 

 

Unfortunately the battle was lost… However this loss was under extreme duress.

 

First up I must explain a few house rules that were imposed at the start of the match.

- Models jumping over barricades (less than 1 inch thick) counted as moving 2 inches.

- Models within an inch of any barricade received a cover save however the model it shot at did not if it was in the open. If any model was further than an inch away from the barricade then the cover save was transferred as normal to both the shooting squad and the “shot at” squad as per normal rules if LOS is obscured.

Another “house rule” as it turned out was that the table was only 3 feet by 5 feet… Not so much a house rule as a rule that had to be put in place because his table top was still not unloaded from the movers truck.

 

Okay now down to the nitty gritty…

 

The match afoot was to played as an all out annihilation game with set up occurring within 6 inches of our table quarters edges (due to the small size of the table). The map consisted of:

- Swampland Quarter (facing his deployment zone)

- Tree Line Quarter (facing my deployment zone)

- Fort Quarter (his deployment zone)

- Town Quarter (my deployment zone)

The fort contained a raised tower hidden behind a semi-circular wall so only the top level was in LOS. There was also a barricade 5 inches out from the wall running it’s entire length.

 

The town contained a church tower with two levels both in LOS, 3 small solid buildings and three 6 inch long barricades arranged in a semi-circle with 4 inch gaps between them surrounding the town.

 

The armies:

 

Space Marines led by Chaplain with jump pack

2x Tac Squads 10 Men (Flamer/ML)

1x Assault Squad 10 Men (p/wep)

1x Scout Squad 5 Men (snipers, camo cloaks) – Telion led

1x Dread (ML/Assault Cannon)

1x Predator (Heavy Bolters and Auto Cannon)

 

Orks led by a boss with a massive big gun that dropped an uber template

Escorted by 16 boys

30 boy strong squad with a claw nob guy and weird boy with gretchin meat wall

10 to 15 odd strong tank shootas with gretchin meat wall

Looted tank

3 Coptas

 

I deployed with combat squads in cover behind buildings as my deployment zone was so small I was a templates wet dream. Pred and Dread were both deployed between the buildings on the tree line side of the town which had just enough space for them and very little else. Assault squad was huddled in behind the combat squads. And scouts hid themselves in the church tower.

 

He deployed his tank hunters and coptas on the swamp side thinking I’d come at him through the swamp. His uber gun totting boss with 16 strong squad deployed in the tower with the boss and 5 boyz sitting on the top level. Tank deployed outside the fort next to the tree line and weird boys squad hid behind the tree line with their meat shield of gretchin in front.

 

First turn:

 

Noticing his tank hunters were deployed in the worst spot imaginable he started trekking them from the outside edge of the board in between the barricade and the wall towards my tank.

Coptas moved around the swamp to my table edge and fire at the dread but fail miserably.

Truck shot it’s template at the single assault marine exposed on a corner of a building and killed one.

Weird boy teleported the whole squad next to my four combat squads and dread. Just out of LOS of my scouts.

The boss didn’t have LOS on anything so sat on his perch and did nothing.

 

Noticing I was now completely trapped in my corner with my combat squads open to a charge I moved all my combat squads around the other side of the buildings in LOS to the tank/boss/tank hunters and gretchin.

Dread pulled back and unloaded a hail of dakka into the massive squad but only killed two.

Tank moved forward and unloaded into the tank with auto cannon but nothing hit.

Hoping to take out the nob with the claw before he could assault with the big squad I moved the scout squad out of cover and into LOS on the big squad. Now you might be thinking :cuss at this junction as was I after remembering that Telion’s pro bolter isn’t assault… it’s heavy! IE… I couldn’t bloody fire him! Err go… worst move ever!

Assault squad jumped and charged into the big ork squad only just making it as I had to charge over a small wall to get into base to base (house rules for barricades came into play). These guys tore shreds out of the boys but took a hammering from the weird boy and the claw!

 

Turn Two:

 

The big gun fires it’s template at Telion and the scouts rolling a double six bang on target… This, as my opponent tried to read out to me behind a wall of happy tears, replaces my scouts brains with gretchin and they all insta-die! The whole squad… Do not pass go do not get any saves!

The tank fires at two combat squads close by and does nothing. Gotta love such fail tanks!

Tank hunters move a bit more and try to shoot but fall an inch short trying hard to shoot at my biggest exposed target (the pred positioned oh so smartly )

Coptas move in and shoot at the dread but he proves to be invulnerable! Try to charge but fall short and are left just on the outskirt of the assault where the chaplain makes a final stand and takes the last of the boys as he and his brothers fall leaving the only the nob and weird boy.

 

Hoping to cut off another assault I move the dread into the gap left by the chaplain and unload, leaving one wound for the nob and the weird boy. The dread falls an inch short of assault much to my disappointment.

Combat squads hail down on the boss but his meat shield protects him and some poor rolling fails to do anything but infuriate me more. Pred and a ML totting combat squad blow the tank thankfully so the turn isn’t wasted.

 

It’s at this point the GF’s rock up and unfortunately the game is ended… Given the nature of the positioning, the very next turn would have obliterated both dread and two combat squads and with my army in ruins (points wise) Jake is declared the winner and I am left to sleep on the couch as per our previous agreement.

 

Without being a sore loser I have to say these few short notes. Playing on a small table is like having teeth pulled, the shorter distance took away the one edge I had over him. Also his incredible rolling was counted by my inability to make 3+ armour saves! He really couldn’t have asked for anything better than “teleport next to him” and “everything under template dies”.

 

A rematch is scheduled for 3 weeks time and this will be played on a proper table with less cover and no jinky perch for boss to camp on.

The points limit has been increased to 1500points and I’ll post a preliminary list shortly. Expect to see a vindicator and maybe a whirlwind. Once again the forum will be open to comments and more importantly suggestions and reviews of what was done wrong in this match… Before you slam me for it I know I fail for the Telion disaster!

 

Sorry I have to cut this short and messy but my boss is edging ever so closer so I must dash… Will post again soon to explain further anything that requires more information.

[CompanyOfTheFallen]

I think you should read his codex in the meantime. Sounds kind of odd to me.

[waaanial00]

Thing you must remember about the way he played the Weirdboy. The Grots do not get the Mob rule so the Weirdboy cannot substitute his LD value for the number of units within his unit, he only therefore has a LD of 7, done thats it.

 

The Mek with the Shokk Attack Gun is a complete wild card though and you will see next time how unpredictable it is. You were very unlucky to have Telions squad wiped out but he was not cheating it does happen.

 

If he decides to take Tankbustas then just take a number of Rhinos to feed to them, their range is only 24" and they cannot ever run so Rhinos have the speed to keep them occupied all game long shooting at shadows.

 

Looted Wagons are only AV10 and open topped so they die nicely ;)

[RandomGuy]

Well I have to say to start off with you were unlucky. That and I would suggest an investment of new dice... Also I think the small table and lots of terrain helps the orks far far more than you realized. Orks are 6 points for a reason, they wear no amour. By having that level of terrain you were gifting him 4+ saves everywhere regardless. Still about the re-match.

 

I think I should spend a bit of time looking at the shokk attack gun for you. You were very unlucky that he rolled that double 6. If it was me you were fighting that would have been a double 1 and it would have been 95 points down the drain. Still here are some points for countering it:

-Hope it blows up

-Charge it, in combat he's a 2 wound independent character with T4 and a 6+Sv. I think most things can cope with that

-Hope it blows up

-Shoot at him, I'm not sure if you know this but if you target a building with a template/blast weapon then the casualties must be taken from the targeted floor. So if you took your whirlwind, take the no-cover rounds and shoot his floor so he has no wounds left. That or a really sneaky thing to do is in a 3 story building to take out all the orks from the middle floor and then force them to move because they are out of coherency. (this is even more funny when your opponent can't roll higher that a 2 on difficult terrain...)

-Hope it Blows up

 

So with that sorted lets move on.

Your list looks pretty solid to me. I probably would have swapped the pred for a vindicator but that's really it. At 1500 it would be nice to see some terminators making it into your list. They may be lots of points but they have both shooting and combat ability. This is pretty expensive but I would like to suggest 10 of them with 2 Cyclones. If you combat squad them you have the equivalent of a devastator squad sat at the back of the table shooting and a normal terminator squad for combat duties. I find that their abilities are increased significantly if you combine them with a thunderfire cannon.

 

Set the thunderfire and cyclone combat squad up in a building using the techmarine's ability to bolster the defenses of it. Any incoming fire will be giving you a 3+ cover save (hopefully keeping the glass cannon alive) and then would you like to assault 5 terminators in cover without frag grenades? Obviously at 570 points for the 2 units it's a little expensive and it will involve you dropping something from your current list, I'd recommend the predator personally since you don't seem to be having much luck hitting with it and the thunderfire should be coving that role in your list.

 

So Random Guy's How to beat orks (without Gorgonzola) list is...

 

Chaplain w/Jump Pack

2x Tactical w/Flamer and Missile Launcher

Sniper Scout Squad w/Tellion

10 Terminators w/2 Cyclones

Dreadnought w/Missile Launcher and Assault Cannon

Assault Squad w/Power Weapon

Thunderfire Cannon

Total-1485 so there's 15 points to assign somewhere (Maybe an extra Scout)

 

I think that looks pretty balanced as a list and in fact looking at it, it looks fairly similar to my current 1500 list which is currently unbeaten.

 

If there is any more advice you need then just ask...

 

Random Guy

[Spurs]

Once again some pretty solid advice there guys and randonguy... champ as always mate...

 

We are good mates so i know that he played fair, as did I. As you said it was a lot of bad luck. His random psychic ability was a teleport and his shok gun was on fire... Not on fire like how i wanted it to be though, more like the fire that cost me about 185 points of casualties fire!

 

I agree wholeheartedly about the terrain too... I suggested at the start of the match that we had too much terrain but he insisted that for "role playing" reasons it looked good having an ork fort and marines assaulting from the town. I'm not much for in game role playing so this wore thin on me quickly.

 

I had forgotten about the rule for templates firing at buildings though, you raise a very valid point! If i had fired at the top level he can't take the casualties from everything below him can he... (He was by the way).

 

I definately will be taking my fresh painted razorback and vindicator to the 1500 points bash. Could start working on the whirlwind too. Unfortunately i'm pro-painting a 5 man termy squad and they are only half built so they are out of the question as to is my cannon unfortunately. Bought one but my mate is using it in Sydney for the next month or so.

 

 

 

I put a list together just last week which i fought against a my mates BT army with and it faired remarkably well.

 

Sicarius (transfering infiltrate to the plas tac squad)

2x Tac Squads (Fl/ML and plas gun/plas cannon)

10 Scouts w/Telion

8 bikes + attack bike MM (2x meltaguns)

Dread (AC/ML)

2 Landspeeders (HB/AC)

Predator (HB/AutoC)

 

He threw up two 16 man tac/scout squads (bolt pistols and chainswords)

a 6 man las team

las pred

10 man assault squad

brother captain

chaplain with jump pack

2 landspeeders

 

Obliterated everything he had except for the brother captain and one of the landspeeders by turn three having only lost a bike, a scout and two tac marines.

 

I know this isn't like fighting the ork horde however in such a terrain rich environment i did see a few areas were a list like this might just work against his. After playing with them i am loving the infiltrating plasma tac squad! It is quite versitile to deal with those harder to kill units. The plas template would have made peicemeal out of the copta squad which he likes to keep very close knit.

 

At the moment i'm looking at something along the lines of the following.

 

Master of the forge

3x Tac Squad (2x Fl/ML and uber plasma team awesomo)

Razorback (HB)

5x Scouts w/Telion (camo cloaks with the master close by)

8 bikes with HB attack bike

landspeeder (TML)

Vindicator

Dread in drop pod with deathwind ML

 

Comes out pretty close to 1500 points with a little massaging i think. (Codex not in hand)

 

Any suggestions?

[minigun762]

I'm a CSM player but I'm not sure I like the Master of the Forge. I think a Captain/Master/Chaplain on a Bike would be better.

[Spurs]

I had thought about leading the bike squad with a chaplain or master on bike but he would be somewhat wasted as a character as a "what if my bike squad is assaulted" leader rather than a "bring the hurt... I want more" leader. I would love to use a company master with the ability to drop the orbital bombardment but wouldn't know how best to use one in this type of army... For the points of MOTF i could afford two chaplains or masters really. But having bolster defences with MOTF is going to turn the three level building i want to take this time into the building of doom! Think vindicator, scouts, telion, two ML totting combat squads and a landspeeder with TML hold up in a 3+ building...

[Brother Gathurn]

Sicarius (transfering infiltrate to the plas tac squad)

 

um... why? you don't really want to get closer. and the motf may not be great without ab unch of dreads there usally not worth it. bikes only work if theres not alot of cover otherwise they'll do great. you ight want to try some attack bike squads with heavy bolters as that just tears theroug orcs. a dev squad wouldn't be bad either. theres also mabye a little to much hard hitting stuff orcs need quantity not quality.

 

hope that helps

[TheGreat213]

The rule of thumb for going against orks is to stay away from close combat and shoot......a lot. Whirlwhinds and snipers and anything that can stay away from orks while shooting them are prime. Your new list looks good but I'd recommend it to be a little bit more but not completely long range oriented.

[Spurs]

Infiltrating the tac squad will hopefully give him the problem of having to split his assault or suffer plasma at close range. My tactic as i see it in my head is don't let the horde overwhelm the majority of my fire force. He will have at least another 30 boy squad and he hinted at taking bikes too so divide and conquer is the rule for the day. I like the plasma squad for elite hunting. And if he sees plasma next to elites or even his big mob i know he'll split something off it to fight them. 12 to 18 inches means it'll take two turns to get to them and that's two turns they are tied up. It's a very loose tactic i have in my head for them but if i get a good position it could wreak havoc on high value targets. I'm hoping to draw his bikes to them. He is very over-confident with them and 3 plasma weps will do a lot of damage before they get to them.

 

As for my use of bikes i've told him that there will be no where near the cover on the board we had before. I'm thinking a single building on either edge played from the short sides of the table and maybe a swamp in the middle. I found that my static force in the last game limited my ability to escape from the randomness of the orks. Having a large biker squad and landspeeder allows me to re-mobilse to account for anything remarkably bad like the "teleport next to you" debarkle.

 

To tell you the truth i would love to take someone cheaper but having a dual between conversion beamer and big shok gun sounds like a barrel of laughs... Sit him in the tower at the back of my deployment zone and template the hell out of everything with AP2.

[foster]

I'll just add the points to your list just to see what you spent:

 

Master of the forge 100pts

:)

10x Tactical squad with flamer and missile launcher 170pts

10x Tactical squad with flamer and missile launcher 170pts

10x Tactical squad with plasmagun and plasma cannon 185pts

Razorback with TL heavy bolter 40pts

5x Scouts with Telion and camo cloaks 145pts

:)

Dreadnought with drop-pod armed with deathwind missile launcher 160pts

:)

8x Bike squad with HB attack bike 255pts

Landspeeder with typhoon missile launcher and heavy bolter/flamer 90pts

Vindicator 115pts

 

1430pts

 

A nice 70pts left over for upgrades or additional men (for your scout squad perhaps). IMHO this is a good list.

 

I like the plasma squad for elite hunting. And if he sees plasma next to elites or even his big mob i know he'll split something off it to fight them. 12 to 18 inches means it'll take two turns to get to them and that's two turns they are tied up. It's a very loose tactic i have in my head for them but if i get a good position it could wreak havoc on high value targets. I'm hoping to draw his bikes to them. He is very over-confident with them and 3 plasma weps will do a lot of damage before they get to them.

 

The changes I would make to suit a style which I picked up on killhammer is that if you want to threaten elites with plasma, is not to throw away a 10 man tactical squad for two shots and a template. I think that a 5 man sternguard unit armed with 2 plasma cannons (145pts) would be a cheaper and better distraction. It may not be scouring or have as many bodys, but 2 plasma templates will get your opponants attention. Having a 30" range with special ammo is just a bonus. Try to work this to your list.

 

I would reckonmend changing your missile launchers for Heavy bolters, they can wound orks better than a frag. More plasma cannons for 5pts a pop however sounds even better really.

[Jackelope King]

If you really want to get his attention with a "throw away" unit, three words:

 

"Drop pod Dreadnought".

 

Seriously, stick an ironclad down there with a couple of dirt-cheap heavy flamers. Aim for the center of whichever mob you want distracted. Whichever way the drop pod scatters, internal guidance will put it somewhere safe. Then hop your dread out of the drop pod (shielding his rear armor from the tank hunter if necessary with the drop pod, which they have to target as per their glory hunter rule). Unload both heavy flamers into the mob. Flamers kill orks. Heavy flamers reduce them to extra-crispy ork-nuggets. Orks will get no cover save, no armor save, and die on a 3+ from the flamer. A good ork player might be able to scatter his models well to avoid small blast templates, but you should have no problem lining up flamer templates to just erase swathes of his mob. And literally the only model in the squad you're worried about on the assault is a nob with a power klaw. If he cheaps out and doesn't take that, you can also assault that mob and tie it up indefinitely.

[Sgt. Corallis]

Aim for the center of whichever mob you want distracted. Whichever way the drop pod scatters, internal guidance will put it somewhere safe.

 

You cannot place your drop pod touching any models (friends or foes), so aiming at the centre isn't really possible. However, you should not have any problems getting close enough to use your flamers.

 

 

If he cheaps out and doesn't take that, you can also assault that mob and tie it up indefinitely.

 

Remember thou that you can't assault on the turn you drop, so you are likley to be assaulted by the mob you targeted (assuming the powerklaw nob didn't die, or telion hasn't killed him).

[minigun762]

But having bolster defences with MOTF is going to turn the three level building i want to take this time into the building of doom! Think vindicator, scouts, telion, two ML totting combat squads and a landspeeder with TML hold up in a 3+ building...

 

True, I tend to forget improving the cover save, though rarely do Marines have to worry about AP3 or better weapons when fighting Orks, its more about volumes of fire.

 

What I'd really like to see is a Chaplain and Assault squad, to function as that counter-charge element thats always needed. A Biker Chaplain could do a similar role, but I'm not sure how assaulty SM Bikers are, especially with the Attack Bike you'd probably be more interested in shooting.

 

You could go with a Biker/Jump Pack Librarian with the Flamer power (Avenger?). A highly mobile S5 template would be helpful against Orks, and with enough speed you could assault his Shokk Attack Gun Mek.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Spurs]

Some very good points made here...

 

I like the idea of another dread in my army... Two dreads with heavy flamers sounds like a lovely way to roast some ork hide. And with two drop pods on the table at 55 points each the tank hunters will be tied up wasting time trying to kill them over the dreads for two turns. I also love the two plas cannons in a sternguard squad... It frees up some point too for a squad that could deal a fair whack of punishment to high value targets.

 

So here is what i'm thinking...

Drop the 10 man tac squad for a 5 man stern with plas cannons (Thankyou Foster)

Drop the landspeeder and use the 70 points already left over as well as the few points from the change to the unit above and drop an ironclad in another drop pob (Thankyou Jakelope)

 

Now the big question... And remember to take into account the make up of this army before answering guys:

 

Keep MOTF with his uber template from range and bolster defences, swap the ML's out for HB's and have the 255 pts bike squad which i will probably take as a melta squad of doom now that i'm a bit light on anti-tank.

 

~or~

 

Take a jump pack Chaplain with an assault squad and keep the tac squads with ML's for tank busting?

 

The decisions we are faced with these days!

[minigun762]

Keep MOTF with his uber template from range and bolster defences, swap the ML's out for HB's and have the 255 pts bike squad which i will probably take as a melta squad of doom now that i'm a bit light on anti-tank.

 

~or~

 

Take a jump pack Chaplain with an assault squad and keep the tac squads with ML's for tank busting?

 

Maybe its a lack of appreciation for Bikers, but I think the Assault squad would be a better choice. You know you're going to get into assault at somepoint, so a big charge (with rerolling hits) can break open an entire Boyz squad themselves. Missile Launchers will be more than enough against the majority of things he uses, plus the Frag round is always useful against Boyz themselves.

 

I don't have the codex infront of me, but are those 2 options about the same point wise? Seems like the Biker squad would be alot more expensive than the Assault squad, but then again a Chaplain is more than a MotF.

[Jackelope King]

Bikers are pretty darn effective anti-tank. Run them around with meltas and a multi-melta on an attached attack bike, and that's three pretty nasty anti-tank shots each turn. And they're even scoring if you splurge on a bike captain. Bikers as a whole serve nicely as a harrassing force, riding along the flanks and peppering shots on exposed units (usually hitting a little harder this way than a tactical squad of comparable size). However, they're pricey, and to really be good, you want the ability to use them to turbo-boost onto an objective on turn 5 (which'll give them a 3+ cover save against shooting attacks with their healthy 5 toughness, making them hard to shoot off).

 

However, in terms of a counter-assault squad, a chaplain accompanying a big, standard assault squad (or even better, an assault squad with a pair of flamers) is just nasty. You'll have a lot of attacks you'll get to reroll with the chaplain, and the two flamers make them downright terrifying to an ork mob. Especially when used with smart use of combat tactics, you can have a battered roadblock squad absorb a charge, voluntarily fail their morale test and fall back (likely surviving, since orks have a terrible init of 2), and then leave the mob open to being smashed by this assault squad, who are able to tear into the orks with 9 bolt pistol shots and 2 flamer shots before they even mix it up in melee.

 

As for the master of the forge... I have a soft-spot for the guy. The Conversion Beamer is a pain in the butt to use effectively (really, you should think of it as a strength 8 weapon that you can boost to strength 10 under the right conditions), since it's a single shot with a small blast template, meaning that you might only be taking out one or two orks with each shot. Really, the Master of the Forge biker with a Conversion Beamer is best used as a Monstrous Creature hunter. Strength 8 can put a lot of hurt, and if you can get him on a diagonal somewhere, that Strength 10 AP 1 is going to make some poor MC cry blood. Such a pain to use effectively.

 

Slightly cheaper and maybe more effective overall would be to try a Thunderfire Cannon. It's quite fragile (though with enough threats, it becomes hard to prioritize killing the thing), but it puts out 4 small blasts per turn, can ignore cover, and the techmarine who comes with it can bolster defenses to boot. A whirlwind is probably better pound-for-pound at killing orks, but I've been meaning to try the Thunderfire myself, as it can butcher scary units like Nob bikers with Dangerous Terrain tests.

[foster]

Trading for a Thunderfire cannon or switching the bike squads and MOTF for chappy and assault marines are great options that work very well. But if you want to stick with bikes then I'll suggest a few things from some of what killhammer says. FYI most of what I say is from killhammer, so you should read them if you hadn't yet, just type "killhammer" in search.

 

Why not have the master of the forge riding a bike, this will allow him to fire his Laser while moving as well as giving him a healthy toughness 5. This way he can either zoom off on his own and shoot from afar while avoiding close combat, or he can come from reserves with the bike squad to add to thier re-rollable bolter shots, heavy bolter and what else you feel like taking with them. You can have him with the bike squad and then split them to fire at different juicy targets. Shoot with lots of fire power and then clear out the rest. This way you will have different roles and options that your MOTF can do.

 

As for the Bike squad armenents I would try to mix it up abit so you can fit them for different roles. A flamer for charging close and a meltagun for tank hunting. Basically you don't want to commit the entire squad for one role, and then wanting them to do something else but not having the right equipment. A plasmagun can be a good addition for light armoured tanks and heavy armoured foot troopers, but against Orks the TL bolter shots will be enough since they lack heavy armour. For that extra close combat weapon for the sergent a powerfist would work a treat to crush some skulls. For attack bike weapons you can't really go wrong with either, you may want to have two melta shots on that battle wagon you know your friend will bring, or a heavy bolter for taking out a nasty nob squad. If I could afford it I would get an additional 1-3 Attack Bike squadron to bring more heavy weapons, Multi-meltas for tank hunting, Heavy bolters to bring the pain to small Nob squads.

 

This unit by all means is not that exceptionally great in close combat, so it's best to have them riding and harassing the flanks of the Orks at range, while charging diminished units you know you would win. Basically clearing up the mess killhammer style. They also make a good reserve unit so that they can come on the field fresh as daisies ready to attack your opponants squads. They have an effective charge range of 18" when deployed from reserves. I think you have enough marines to hold off for a turn or two before these bikes arrive.

 

If you are drop-podding the two dreadnoughts then you can bring them both on at the same 1st turn if you were to bring a third drop-pod. Imagine seeing the look on your friends face when an Ironclad and a dreadnought appear right in front of him, hopefully it would be such a shock he would commit every anti-tank weapon he has to clear those two (4 vehicles) out before moving on to you're other units. The spare drop-pod doesn't have to transport anything, so it could go with the sternguard unit. Lol you could drop them later in the game to bring those plasma templates up those Orks over sized green ass, it's just an option.

 

In your list though I can't stop to think that you do not have enough transports for your tactical squads, one razorback is fine but won't really help you in the long run. What you need is an additional Rhino that can either be use to block line of sight from shoota boys and as speed bumps for the the mob to walk around. It may not compliment to your overall fire power to your army, but I like to use rhinos as last minute transports that can run a tactical squad to contest or score distant objectives quickly.

 

One more thing... try not to let your friend bring so much terrain like last time, they will effect your bikers movement as well as what you can shoot at with your other units.

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Like was mentioned above the MOTF is hard to place, the techmarine rules can be nice but you can get one and four small blasts out with a thunderfire. You'll just have to screen it from deff koptaz while the techmarine reinforces a ruin the snipers are in and Telion goes around sniping PK nobs on squads you plan to counter assault.. He may not get so lucky this game so don't obsess over your mistakes last game. Bikes are extremely survivable in CC. If you charge the boys you will not only get your devastating shooting but they will go last AND need 6's to wound. You can make them scoring and turbo boost for a cover, I would recommend bikes over assault marines for both counter charge etc (Which goes against my chapters particular doctrines but hey lets be honest, bikes are just so good for their points it's unfair.)

 

Devastators with ML's or HB's or Sternguard with PC's will put the hurt out. As well as suicide iron clads with HF. LS's and attack bike squads with HB's can also rip apart boys, nobs and deff koptaz effectively. Just remeber to minimize KP to make up for the glass cannon and techmarine which are extremely vulnerable. The game you describes sounded way imbalance in his favor. Here's a house rule I have: When playing on a smaller table reduce deployment and movement by how much smaller th table is. so on a 3 foot table (36 in.) each side would deploy 9" instead of 12" for 48" the deployment would still be 1/4 of the table. You could do this with movement also but you don't have to. I find it helps balance assault armies of small tables (Which I face alot) and makes the game more enjoyable.

[Spurs]

Sorry to be absent again for a little while but i'm back and the game might be changing. Looks like we might be going for a 1750 points game this time around. He wants to bring his bikes but liked his 1500 points list so i'll be looking at upgrading the points limit to 1750.

 

In which case... Taking all your valuable advice and critiques into consideration I am looking at taking the list below.

 

Chaplain (Jump pack)

 

10x Tactical squad with flamer and HB with Razorback

10x Tactical squad with flamer and HB with Razorback

5x Sternguard squad with 2x plasma cannons with Razorback

 

10x Scouts with Telion, HB and camo cloaks

 

Dreadnought with drop-pod armed with deathwind missile launcher

 

10x Assault Squad with flamers

 

8x Bike squad with HB attack bike

Landspeeder with typhoon missile launcher and heavy bolter

 

Vindicator

 

Don't have the book with me but i think adding 5 scouts puts me over 1750 so i can cut 2 or 3 if needed.

 

I think this is a solid list to battle with and balances well. With the razorbacks my combat squads without the heavy weapons are mobile enough to counter deploy if he pulls off some lucky psychic moves and supplies the tank shootas some cheap targets if they get too close. The Sternguard are going to lay waste to any elites or coptas he wants to bring to the table and my bikes can run around relentlessly picking off meat sheilds.

Telion can head hunt and with the snipers can deplete his nastier squads down to a managable size for the assault squad with chaplain to clean up. I'll be sure to play the biggest table i can and sit back and shoot the hell out of him before moving forward with the razorbacks.

 

I have to admit though i am worried about armour with this list...

 

Once again any thoughts would be appreciated. Battle will be fought within the month.

[minigun762]

5x Sternguard squad with 2x plasma cannons with Razorback

Why pick Plasma Cannons? If he's using Nob Bikers, they're still going to get a cover save and you won't be able to auto-kill them. I'd go with Missile Launchers as it auto-kills Nobz and can toss out cup cakes against the Boyz. Plus it helps your anti-tank somewhat.

 

10x Scouts with Telion, HB and camo cloaks

Camo cloaks are nice, but do you really need the extra cover save? I forget how much they are but if its alot of points, you can probably do without.

 

Dreadnought with drop-pod armed with deathwind missile launcher

Does this guy have a Heavy Flamer? If not I'd splurge on one, you can make back its points on the first drop.

 

10x Assault Squad with flamers

Don't forget the Power Fist Sarge here. You want something to smash the bigger Orks.

 

The only other thing I'd try to fit in is a Whirlwind or Dakka Predator. Cheap and kills Orks dead. Even punches through the 4+ Armor save of the Nob Bikers.

To bulk up your anti-tank, you could replace the HB attack bike with a Multi-Melta. Again S8 weapons are nice against the Bikers and you have alot of S5 AP4 equivalents.

[Spurs]

I agree with the sternguard statement... Anyone got any ideas on a good squad to dump in the spare razorback? I was thinkinging maybe a command squad with a champion?

 

Camocloaks are 30pts for this squad so they are a bit pricey. To be honest i don't think they'll be taking that much dakka from anything they'll be able to take a save from anyways so i'll drop these. I'm guessing he'll be using the big gun to pound Telion.

 

He does come with a heavy flamer. He's going to be my drop and pop dread of doom. I'm going to aim to have him drop in on a flank of a squad i'm just about to assault on the opposite side. Split my assault up so he can't mob me with 2 30 boy squads. If i can drop him near something expensive that has a few less boys i will. Hopefully near that big gun so i can tie that up for a turn.

 

I'll use the points saved on the cloaks to fit out the sarge with a fist.

 

I'm considering dropping Telions squad back to a 5 man squad and scrounging up some points to bring in the predator. He did so remarkably :cusse in the last game though that i'm hesitant to bring him. Could always model up my whirlwind in a hurry i guess but i want to avoid any more work lol.

 

Oh and Bikes will be 2x meltagun and a MM attack bike now that the tac squads are HB totting.

[hartnett]

thunderfire cannons are good at taking out whole squads from a distance negating some ork saves and str6 can be nasty :)