librarian teleporting

[Fuhror Templar]

if a librarian in termie armor with a retinue of assualt termies is engaged in close combat, but realizes he cant win, can he use his teleport power to get the frick out of combat with the terminators. i kind of think no because the power says at the beginning of the librarians movement phase he can use it, but i half think that if your n close combat you dont get a movement phase. my other half thinks that a model still gets a movement phase in close combat but combat disables you to move during that phase. questions or comments much appreciated.

[Seahawk]

He doesn't use a teleport homer at all. He uses a psychic power, and so far as I'm concerned, yes he can poof away from combat (take THAT, Necrons!). I may be wrong though.

[Morticon]

if a librarian in termie armor with a retinue of assualt termies is engaged in close combat, but realizes he cant win, can he use his teleport power to get the frick out of combat with the terminators. i kind of think no because the power says at the beginning of the librarians movement phase he can use it, but i half think that if your n close combat you dont get a movement phase. my other half thinks that a model still gets a movement phase in close combat but combat disables you to move during that phase. questions or comments much appreciated.

 

 

Templar: You still get a movement phase. You just cant move in it. The power rules say you use at the start of the movement phase. If there is no other restriction on the power (ie: cannot be used in CC) then you are free to use it.

 

Also - just a small side note- it wouldnt make a difference if the libby was in termy armour or not if he had the gate power.

[maniclurker]

Wow, I'm surprised to see noone objecting...

 

Yes, he can use Gate of Infinity even if he's in combat.

 

It's worth noting, that you actually use it at the beginning of the LIBRARIAN'S movement phase. I would contend that this means you can move other things before teleporting him.

 

Discussion...

[Motorhead]

If the Librarian can teleport while locked in combat, does this become a viable/legal tactic?

1) During movement phase, librarian teleports his unit out of combat.

2) Using deep strike rules, unit is allowed to shoot which means rapid fire goodness for regular marines or assault cannon/cyclone for termintators either into the same unit they were in combat with or a different unit?

[Cedric]

I think the above tactic would work & be legal.

 

Effectively, it would be like hit & run.

[Gaz1858]

@motorhead

Subject to landing within 12" of the unit you teleported from then yep. Would be great fun to use!!!

[nighthawks]

I think the above tactic would work & be legal.

 

Effectively, it would be like hit & run.

more like "run and hit" but yeah, legal.

[Mal]

Wow, I'm surprised to see noone objecting...

 

Yes, he can use Gate of Infinity even if he's in combat.

 

It's worth noting, that you actually use it at the beginning of the LIBRARIAN'S movement phase. I would contend that this means you can move other things before teleporting him.

 

Discussion...

 

The movement phase is not broken down for individual units, there is an army movement phase, and thats it, so no, you would not be able to move other things first.

[nurglez]

quite the discussion about this going on on warseer, with people for and against in equal number.

 

I, on the other hand, agree that you can use this to get out of combat, however, i would still consider this to be a potential "grey area" so make sure you clear it up before you spring it on an opponant please, else you might have to discuss it during a crucial time which may cloud opinions.

[maniclurker]

Wow, I'm surprised to see noone objecting...

 

Yes, he can use Gate of Infinity even if he's in combat.

 

It's worth noting, that you actually use it at the beginning of the LIBRARIAN'S movement phase. I would contend that this means you can move other things before teleporting him.

 

Discussion...

 

The movement phase is not broken down for individual units, there is an army movement phase, and thats it, so no, you would not be able to move other things first.

 

Proof...?

[Praeger]

Actually manic YOU have to provide the proof here.

 

Please show where the rule book mentions that individual units have individual movment phases.

 

This is a rather big statment that you have made as it effects things such as psyckers using powers at the start of the movment phase, reserves etc

 

At the moment the only "movment phase" I can see is one for your whole army - so please, if you really are stating that each individual unit gets its own individual movment phase so that reserves can be made later in the overall phase, then please provide proof.

 

Note that im not saying your wrong - just that to make a statment like this YOU have to provide the proof.

[nighthawks]

"librarian's movement phase" refers to the movement phase of the owning player. Praeger has it right.

[SeattleDV8]

The problem I have is that it doesn't say that you can use it if locked in combat. without the specific over rule I believe that you have to treat it like other movement and since you cannot move out of combat without a special rule you are stuck.

[nurglez]

aye this is the "discussion" going on at warseer at the mo.

 

basically, argument's are:

 

against using gate when locked in combat: you cant move when locked in combat

 

For using gate when locked in combat: its not a normal movement therefore you can use it.

 

I see both sides, but still believe you can use it. I would still suggest discussing it with your opponant before starting the game to clear up anything.

[maniclurker]

Actually manic YOU have to provide the proof here.

 

Please show where the rule book mentions that individual units have individual movment phases.

 

This is a rather big statment that you have made as it effects things such as psyckers using powers at the start of the movment phase, reserves etc

 

At the moment the only "movment phase" I can see is one for your whole army - so please, if you really are stating that each individual unit gets its own individual movment phase so that reserves can be made later in the overall phase, then please provide proof.

 

Note that im not saying your wrong - just that to make a statment like this YOU have to provide the proof.

 

Actually, I have to provide nothing. The codex says at the beginning of the Librarian's move phase. That sounds to me like it's saying that the librarian has a move phase, and that it happens at the beginning of it.

 

As to reserves, it says that they come on at the beginning of THE move phase.

 

Now, we can turn this into a proper discussion, using the rulebook, and break it down in a logically process.

 

Or, we can just say that the other has to provide the proof, yada yada, and turn this into a pointless argument.

 

I prefer the former, because I'd like to really get to the bottom of this one. I might have missed something, a second set (or lots) of eyes would be helpful.

[Praeger]

Now, we can turn this into a proper discussion, using the rulebook, and break it down in a logically process.

 

Then please provide the proof that individual units have individual movment phases. Please provide rule book quote that allows for this possibility.

[Blood Scorpion]

Oooh, hadn't thought about this little trick! Like it!

 

I'm fairly certain that when a rule states "at the beginning of the xxxxxx's move phase" it refers to the beginning of the collective move phase for the whole army, there is no move phase for each unit.

 

Just as any units entering from Reserves have to come on at the start of the phase, I would say that the Librarian has to use Gate to Infinity at the start of the phase and therefore before any units on the board move.

[Be26]

Damn. Gate just became a hell of a lot more useful.

 

Let me clarify this - the crux of this is that the power is stated to be used at the beginning of the Movement phase and, though he can't move in it, the Librarian still gets a Movement phase. Is this supported by anything in the rules?

[Gaoramon]

He doesn't use a teleport homer at all. He uses a psychic power, and so far as I'm concerned, yes he can poof away from combat (take THAT, Necrons!). I may be wrong though.

 

Do you mean to say that the librarian CANNOT use teleport homers when using Gate of Infinity? The teleport homer rule (codex p.101) seems to limit their use to terminators, but I would argue that is due to only terminators being able to teleport naturally. I personally would love to be able to teleport a librarian-attached unit to a teleport homer and thus remove the possibility of losing a model (as no scatter would be rolled).

 

Am I just being overly optimistic?

[nighthawks]

Overly optimistic.

 

teleport homers are only for terminator deepstrike, and not the Gate psychic power which uses deepstriek rules. it is not teleporting, per se. the Locator Beacon I think could be argued to work with gate, though (dispite not making any sense, fluff-wise) as it effects "deep strike" generally for friendly units.

[Seahawk]

Exactly. Teleport homers are terminator specific, as stated in their entry. Locator Beacons are simply deep strike specific, so that includes any unit doing so, such as the librarian.

[Gaoramon]

D'oh! That's a newb for you - confusing teleport homers with locator beacons. (wince)

 

If any case, it looks like the plan I had in mind would still work. Let me run a scenario past you:

(note: my list has 3 tac squads, a sternguard squad and two dreads, all but the sternguard have drop pods)

 

On turn 1

- drop the trio of tac squad pods on the various objectives/strategic areas. These pods have locator beacons

- deploy the sternguard (with attached librarian) in deployment zone

Following turns

- teleport the sternguard squad to the locator beacon closest to the most highly-fought area of the table, shoot the crap out of everything

- drop the dreads in the same areas when available

 

Sounds like it could be pretty effective to me. Thoughts?

 

(edit: clarification)

[Seahawk]

Yep. That's the prescribed synergized tactic.

[asianavatar]

I'm fairly certain that when a rule states "at the beginning of the xxxxxx's move phase" it refers to the beginning of the collective move phase for the whole army, there is no move phase for each unit

 

There is a difference, at the beginning of the player's movement phase means right at the beginning means its the first thing that has to be done, at the beginning of the librarians movement phase means at the librarians movement phase, so I can move a different unit than use the power on the librarian. If it was at the beginning of the player phase and I moved a unit I couldn't use the power.