The History and Legacy of Dorn's Betrayal

[modernangelofdeath]

@modernangelofdeath

 

I can see what you are trying to reach for here with the Fire Hawks, I just worry about straying too far from the source material. When I first started this idea, one of the chapters I focused on was the Lamenters, which Aurelius turned into an Ultramarine chapter. What I ended up doing with them sounds alot like what happened to the Fire Hawks. Both were ultramarine chapters that suffered some terrible tragedy and were "Tricked" into serving nurgle. I'm sure its coincidence, but I almost feel like we need to be careful with the Nurgle elements. In this universe, Nurgle has a real love/hate relationship with the Blood Angels and Aurlius even says that the plague god has avoided corrupting another legion for some reason. ;)

 

The only way I felt comfortable with rewriting the Lamenters into the Blood Angels was by A) having their Gene Seed be replaced with Blood Angel gene seed, and ^_^ the individual responsible was a blood angel in disguise (I think it would be cool if it was a Chaos version of Corbulo but I left it ambiguous)

 

There are a couple of ways to change this. Perhaps, the fire Hawks were a sup group of emperor's children that were attacked during the Age of Apostasy instead of an ultramarine chapter targeted by the Black Legion. That way, the fire hawk name makes more sense because the EC use the Aquila. According to Lexicanum, the Zhoros was destroyed during the Age of Apostasy, so that still works.

 

Also, just because you the legion of the damned use bones and skulls does not automatically tie them to Nurgle. Just look at Normal universe thousand Sons. Dust inside empty armor. It could be that there was some kind of alternate curse or effect. Maybe the Fire Hawks dies cursing the emperor in rage or in their arrogance tried to incorporate lost tech into their armor without checking it and the resulting feedback destroyed their bodies but kept their souls intact?

 

actually the idea of the fire hawks serving nurgle had nothing to do with their apperance, it was mostly based on the description of how they became (supposedly) the legion of the damned in the normal 'verse. apparently they were driven insane by the warp, a side effect of which was also having their bodies slowly rot away,but being space marines they decided to keep fighting. actually, the idea of the armour was not noticed by me untill just now. but having the incdent happen in the age of apostasy, them being EC was something i never thought of, sounds alot better so i think that would go along better.

[Coryphaus 101]

Chapters in the Badab War:

 

Fire Hawks

Marines Errants

Red Scorpions

Raptors

Salamanders

Fire Angels

Novamarines

Howling Griffons

Sons of Medusa

Minotaurs

Exorcists

Astral Claws

Mantis Warriors

Lamenters

Executioners

 

There are a lot of Ultramarine successors in this list so I'll have to write them into the story somehow (perhaps they want to expand their realm). The Raptors are in there too would could be interesting (Ultramarine reinforcements aren't what they suspected?). The presence of the Salis could complicate things. I've already explained why I haven't included the Lamenters (although if modernangelofdeath changes the Fire Hawks into non-Nurgle followers [please don't] I might include them). Mainly what we're looking at is the forces of Ultramar (who'll also be terrified of the Raptors in their midst) vs the forces of Nurgle (including the traitor guardsmen) with the Iron Warriors (plus probably some backup, most likely in tye form of World Eaters and maybe some Thousands Sons who I am now loving) under Lufgt the Lionheart's command desperately fighting for control. I'm definitely going to need some help with this (and maybe a new thread).

[Astus]

I'm liking this idea of putting some of the chapters into the Dornian Heresy universe, and would like to add some ideas of my own to this

My thoughts for the Badab War:

Carcharodons - A large force of Space Marines appear out of nowhere and attack the Chaos and Ultramar forces, but strangely leave the Iron Warriors (and their allies) untouched. When the Iron Warriors hail them for identification, they cryptically reply 'We are the Carcharons, and we may fight the same foes, but we fight alone.'

 

Exorcists: A Company (not sure if its Company or Fellowship in DH) of the Thousand Sons, being particularly well known for their harsh recruitment tactics and expertise at fighting Daemons and possesion.

 

Fire Angels: A Grand Company of the Iron Warriors who only fight using mechanised tactics and are known as the 'Fire Angels' for their favoured tactic of rushing at the enemy in their tanks, then purging them with flame weaponry.

 

That's all I have at the moment, feel free to expand if you want to

 

the promethean

[Kelbor-Hal]

Okay, I'm haveing a major hangover right now, so I can't squeeze a proper reply out of my brain, but I think in the end Huron should lead a unit like the Deathwatch, regarding that in the original fluff he commans a multi-warband force. I like the idea that other legions came to his aid, some of those warriors - the greatest heroes of the war - could add up the special unit, or something... (sorry for the sloppy phrasing folks, I hope the idea is useful though...)

[Coryphaus 101]

Promethean, I like your ideas (and the fact that they tie in with my own). Kelbor-Hal, your idea is of use. What I'm looking at at the moment is combining the Promethean's, Perrin's, Kelbor-Hal's, modernangelofdeath's Legion of the Damned, Malikka's Raptors and my ideas into one big jumble that I'll have to sort out. It'll be hard work but if you guys keep giving support and suggestions we can make a killer article (and maybe convince Aurelius into publishing it).

[Coryphaus 101]

I just had a thought. What if instead of the Carcharodons (who seem like a sort of Legion of the Damned) we use my idea for the Soul Drinkers (who are also Legion of the Damned). Otherwise the Carcharodons will probably end up being killed by the 'Deathwatch' (or should it be the Maelstrom Warders. I like the Deathwatch because not only are they a 'chapter' in the normverse but their 'watching death'.)

[Allfather1]

What if Huron the Lionheart became the supreme commander of the Babab sector after saving it.

Meaning that all Guard (Army?) and Astartes forces in the sector would be under his command.

 

Warsmith Huron the Lionheart, Savior of Babab and Guardian of the Maelstorm sound pretty good.

His company of Iron Warriors could be specialised in space combat, earning them the nickname Astral Claws.

[Coryphaus 101]

That's kind of where I was heading with this, Lufgt (if anyone's wondering why I call him that all the time it's to distinguish him from the normverse Huron) commanding elite sections of the Thousands Sons, World Eaters and maybe Word Bearers and the Imperial Army/Navy as the 'Death Watch'/Maelstrom Warders. I like the idea of specializing in space combat earning them the name Astral Claws, I was trying to think of a way to give them that name.

[Culebras]

Just a thought before work. What if we take a page from the Armageddon and have a multi-conflict war rather than try and make this all one giant melee.

 

My idea was to divide the forces into three camps. One the one side you have Huron and the loyal imperials. On the other you have an Ultramarine Crusade, and the third you have chaos. that way, you can phase in the conflict. Well first the Ultramarines invaded, and then the IG turned to chaos, then...etc.

 

 

Imperial: Exorcists, Fire Angels, Astral Claws

 

Ultramarine: Marines Errants, Novamarines, Howling Griffons, Lamenters

 

Chaos: Fire Hawks, Red Scorpions, Raptors, Salamanders, Sons of Medusa, Minotaurs, Mantis Warriors, Executioners

 

 

 

Also, I think that it might be cool, historically, if we can some how tie in the real Richard the Lionheart and his conflict with Saladin in the crusades to Huron. Its just a thought, but it might be nice.

[Kelbor-Hal]

Imperial: Exorcists, Fire Angels, Astral Claws

 

Soul Drinkers should be involved too, and we should mention the legions, like for example: Exorcists (Thousand Sons), to make it easier to follow ;)

[Allfather1]

Just a thought before work. What if we take a page from the Armageddon and have a multi-conflict war rather than try and make this all one giant melee.

 

My idea was to divide the forces into three camps. One the one side you have Huron and the loyal imperials. On the other you have an Ultramarine Crusade, and the third you have chaos. that way, you can phase in the conflict. Well first the Ultramarines invaded, and then the IG turned to chaos, then...etc.

 

 

Imperial: Exorcists (Word Bearers), Astral Claws (Iron Warriors)

Ultramarine: Marines Errants, Novamarines, Howling Griffons, Lamenters, Fire Angels

Chaos: Fire Hawks, Red Scorpions, Raptors, Salamanders, Minotaurs, Mantis Warriors, Executioners

 

 

 

Also, I think that it might be cool, historically, if we can some how tie in the real Richard the Lionheart and his conflict with Saladin in the crusades to Huron. Its just a thought, but it might be nice.

 

The Exorcists should be a Word Bearer company that's known for fighting Daemons, they could have more librarians. But I think making them Thousand Sons would be obvious. Making them Word Bearers would make them more awesome because they would not have the Soulbinding to protect them from the daemonic.

 

I think it would be better if the Fire Angels are either Ultramarines or chaos, then they can atacked by the Astral Claws as it happend in the Norm'verse.

[Coryphaus 101]

I just had another look at the list and realized the presence of the Sons of Medusa in there, adding another faction. I have a feeling this war is going to be a whole lot bigger than it's normverse counterpart.

 

Also the Loyalist faction is looking pretty small, especially since tons of Guard will turn on them. Don't forget the fact that we can change the Legion's involved (like I'm considering getting rid of Sons of Medusa), but that doesn't mean we're going to use completely different Legions, we want to keep it based on the actual Badab War.

 

Culebras, I like both ideas. We should definitely use them. I've got school holidays coming up so I'll be on and off the net as I try to find wireless but I'll try to write a few of the articles, including the overview.

[Perrin]

Are the Exorcists still going to be the same as normal Exorcists? Cause they are one of my favourite chapters and it would suck to see some of their awesomeness taken away :rolleyes: Word Bearers would work good because exorcism is a religous thing, but Thousand Sons would also work because their Soul binding could help them throw out the daemon after being possessed.

[jim horatio]

Just wanted to say Kudos to Aurelius Rex and all the other contributers! Loving it so far, look forward to whatever comes next.

[Allfather1]

Experimentation, including the attempted possession of soul-bound test subjects such as Astropaths, proved to be catastrophically messily failures, and indicated that the Emperor’s spirit was in fact immune to corruption by this method. Undeterred by these setbacks, Cypher is said to have attempted the possession of one of the Soul-bound Thousand Sons, and that the resulting psychic explosion incinerated them both, along with several adjacent decks of the ship on which they were travelling. While the truth may never be known, the Thousand Sons are noticeable by their absence from the groups of forcibly possessed Astartes used in battle by the Dark Angels.

 

From the dark angels IA.

This is why I think the Exorcists should be Word Bearers.

Possesion is still possible, so the chapter wouldn´t have to change much.

[Culebras]

Are the Exorcists still going to be the same as normal Exorcists? Cause they are one of my favourite chapters and it would suck to see some of their awesomeness taken away :( Word Bearers would work good because exorcism is a religous thing, but Thousand Sons would also work because their Soul binding could help them throw out the daemon after being possessed.

 

There are strong arguments for both. The lore indicates the Exorcists come from Grey Knight Geneseed, so if we assume they are very psychic, then the whole psychic exorcism thing works.

 

On the other hand, The Word Bearer's have are very religious and Erebus did exorcise Horus during the heresy. Also, the recent Dark Angels entry indicates the thousand Sons are immune to possession, so that nixes their more "creative" training procedure for recruits.

 

@Promethean

Regarding the Fire Angels, a while ago I posted a thread in the custom rules section about playing an Iron Warriors themed army. I had the idea of using penitent engines and calling them "Iron Angels." I ran the idea past aurelius and he told me he felt that it was very out of character for the Iron Warriors to call anything "angel" due to Sanguinas murdering their primarch. I had to find a way around it (I changed it so that the iron angels were named after succesfully butchering a company of Blood angels, so the name became ironic).

 

I would therefore propose that any chapter with Angel in its name that is not tied to either the Dark Angels or the Blood Angels would likely be from the Word Bearers, what with their religious theme. other than that, I think you have a good idea for the Fire Angels.

 

@Coryphaus

 

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me that Lufgt should be from the Black Templars(sons of Horus) chapter. If we want to draw on the legacy of Richard the Lionheart, it would make sense that he belong to a chapter known for crusading and not garrisons. Also, the Iron Warriors are written as being very isolationist and not good at working together, but the Black Templar are described as being able to get different legions to work in the same crusade. Plus, if its a space based crusade force, it would make sense that they earned the name "the Astral Claws" for the site of their ships raking their enemy with "claws" of fire.

 

The only down side to that idea is we don't have an entry for the Black Templars yet. ;)

 

@moernangelofdeath

Regarding the Fire Hawks/Legion of the Damned, I've been thinking about this one alot and I may have an alternate take. Here is my pitch, tell me what you think. (company numbers can be changed. I just picked a random one)

 

The 29th company of the Emperor's Children, nicknamed the fire hawks, were putting down a routine rebellion on the planet Zhoros wen a fleet of Imperial ships appeared in orbit. The Space Marines on the surface had no way of knowing that Goge Vandire, Ecclesiarch of the Imperium and leader of the Word Bearers, had accused the Emperor's children of Impiety. They could not have forseen that the paranoid ruler had, only hours before, branded the chaplains of the World Eaters apostates. And they could not have been prepared for the horros that would come next.

 

The Fleet had only one command and it was in their minds a holy one sent by the voice of the emperor himself. Destroy the impious. Bathe them in flame and burn any world they stand upon to a cinder. As the Fire Hawks watched helplessly, Thermal Bombs began to fall from the sky, annhilating cities and turning the planets atmosphere into an inferno. The Fire Hawks had just enough time to order a mass teleport, seconds before they were consumed in the spreading holocaust. With a burst of light, the thousand warriors of the Fire Hawks reappeared on their battle barges and strike cruisers, but something had gone horribly wrong.

 

Perhaps it was some ancient flaw in the design of arcane machinery, or the destruction of the planets inhabitants may have somehow tainted the warp itself. They may have exposed to some bizarre disease or mutation or perhaps the act of teleporting so many marines somehow sundered the very laws of reality itself. Whatever the truth, the marines that stumbled from the teleporters were forever changed. They were less than human, but more than dead. Their armor blackened from the still burning fire, their fleash was dead and gray. Changed into a shadow of what they once were, their knew neither joy, nor despair, nor hope, not rage, but instead felt only a cold hatred at what the Imperium had done. Their fleet fled from Zhoros, only to be discovered abandoned several light years away. As for the Fire Hawks, their was no sign.

 

It was only years later, after Vandire had been overthrown and the age of the apostasy ended, during a repulsion of a blood angel attack, that the defenders witnessed strange black garbed marines fighting along side the Nurgle worshipers. Since then, there have been many sitings of these same marines, sometimes fighting alongside other bands, other times aiding cults of chaos worshipers. In fact the one thing that all the sightings have in common is the desire to slaughter the forces of the Imperium. They seem to have no alliegance to any chaos god, for in deed, they have no souls left to tempt. All that remains is a seeming need to bring destruction upon the forces of the Imperium they once served so dearly.

 

so yeah, it changed quite a bit. i can understand if people don't like it.

[modernangelofdeath]

@Culebras

i like the idea but i think that maybe the fire hawk fleet is destroyed seconds before the marines appear on board and are instead pulled into the warp and land on a world recently captured by the Iron Hands, who possibly turn them to worship of the void dragon, or a renegade iron hands faction that follow the night bringer. just thinking this because in the norm 'verse they wear symbols of death and human mortality maybe we could mix it up and have them worship a metal god instead.

[Coryphaus 101]

All of these ideas for Fire Hawks are really good but you could you please decide on what their going to be soon as I need to know their background.

 

Culebras, I agree they should be Black Templars. The problem is the fact that they don't have an IA yet, making it difficult to write a story about them. I went with Iron Warriors because they are renowned for their defense but maybe World Eaters would suit better. World Eaters are honourable a 'crusading' Legion which fit the idea of the Lionheart perfectly.

 

Oh and what if we make the Excorcists a group of Thousand Sons chaplains? Some kind of sacred order, kind of like the Mournival.

[Perrin]

All of these ideas for Fire Hawks are really good but you could you please decide on what their going to be soon as I need to know their background.

 

Culebras, I agree they should be Black Templars. The problem is the fact that they don't have an IA yet, making it difficult to write a story about them. I went with Iron Warriors because they are renowned for their defense but maybe World Eaters would suit better. World Eaters are honourable a 'crusading' Legion which fit the idea of the Lionheart perfectly.

 

Oh and what if we make the Excorcists a group of Thousand Sons chaplains? Some kind of sacred order, kind of like the Mournival.

 

Thousand Sons are soul binded which stops them being possessed unfortunetly ;)

[Coryphaus 101]

Ok, I've actually read the article on the Excorists now and how about using the Alpha Legion? There was talk a while ago of the AL being the Inquisition's secret weapon and the Excorists are similar. When I was reading about how they change their tactics to catch their enemies off guard that struck me as really AL-y. What if on day, on the eve of a battle against hordes of demons, warriors in red power armour approach the Lionheart's camp saying they have been sent to help them plan and fight. The leader among them (who will not be Alpharius) changes their tactics to surprise and confuse the foe. In battle the red armoured warriors exhibit strong physic powers and the daemons are crushed quickly. Called the Excorists by the other Loyalists involved the red armoured warriors stay with the Lionheart's crusade until it is finished. So basically their a group of elite AL librarians.

[malika666]

Beat to the punch on the Raptors. Oh well, your idea is better than what I had. I like how you took the name Raptor and reworked it towards a new direction. I'd suggest playing up the chamelon aspect alot. The idea of them being forced to change themselves to survive feels off to me. It might make more sense to say they just found themselves in this situation and naturally branched off to develop the ability to camouflage. The thing about the Ravenguard is that each chapter/warband is its own little mini-coven without any sort of common oversight.

Thing is that the original Raptors were forced to change themselves as a Chapter due to the environmental circumstances. I imagine the Dornian Heresy universe version of the Raptors would have something similar. I think we should keep the previously reptilian mutations out, or at least not make them specific to them since the idea of an Assault company would be a lot cooler I think!

 

How about combining the Assault Company with the Coven thing? It might be that the company now known as the Raptors was an Assault Company before the Raven Guard were reunited with Corax and were kept that way until the Horus Heresy. It was only later that the covens started to develop, perhaps in a similar fashion as the Thousand Sons in the Horus Heresy novels who have their own covens specialized in psychic powers. Maybe this company was specialized in camouflage oriented powers. Might be fitting that they are "close to Corax" sort of speak. Not that they are loyal to him or that Corax would forgive them, but more powerwise. According to the audiobook Raven's Flight Corax had a sort of "invisibility power".

 

More "chapters":

 

The Sanctified:

The Sanctified are one of the Word Bearers' many Assault Companies. During the Dornian Heresy this company was mainly fighting against the Ultramarines. When the Heresy ended and most Word Bearers returned to Imperial territory, their commander, Helman Brisch, refused to do so; he and his company remained in Ultramarine territory and kept on fighting against those considered traitors by the Imperium. It was only after Brisch died that the company returned to Imperial space. After this they actively campaigned throughout the Imperium to wipe out all those who would stand in its way. In many cases the Sanctified fought alongside World Eaters' formation, which resulted in close bonds between the Sanctified and World Eaters to be formed. These bonds were reinforced when the World Eaters led the defenses of Vraks against a Chaos invasion led by the Dark Angels.

 

The Skulltakers:

The Skulltakers are one of the World Eaters' more brutal companies, which has led to them being censured on several occasions. It is not uncommon for marines of this company to attack allied non-Astartes during their frenzies. Another barbarous custom, which led to them getting their name, was that they collected the skulls of their enemies. The company's current captain, Balzach Zhufor, even mounted the corpse of a traitor general on his armor. Despite of this, the Skulltakers are very much loyal to the Imperium and will glady die defending it. They proved this when leading the defense of Vraks against the Dark Angels. Together with the Sanctified company of the Word Bearers Zhufor led his company against the Dark Angel invaders. During this brutal conflict most of Zhufor's company perished, but their refusal to give up eventually brought them victory, forcing the Dark Angels to retreat.

[Culebras]

More thoughts on the Badab war

 

Marines Errants, Novamarines, Howling Griffons: all sound like Ultramarine Succesors and I haven't found anything to contradict this.

 

Lamenters: already confirmed as Ultramarine chapter in the Ultramarine entry

 

Executioners: pretty blatantly a Dorn succesor. Name works well as a chaos war band name

 

Mantis Warriors: I pondered on this and my first thought went to Slanesh. Some sort of mutated chapter with insect features? also the battle haze could be worked in by an intrepid poster.

 

Minotaurs: could be either chaos or a company of World Eaters. the Minotaurs are hinted at having some kind of hidden connection to a mysterious backer so if we keep that idea, it might be a way to work in the Alpha Legion.

 

Sons of Medusa: Iron hands will make this a whole lot more complicated. :(

 

If we go with the Minotaur as world eaters and keep the Fire angels in the Imperial category, that leaves us with: Astral Claws (iron warriors?), Exorcists (Word bearers or Thousand Sons), Fire Angels (Iron Warriors or Word bearers), Minotaurs (World Eaters? Alpha Legion in World Eater disguise?)

 

If we stick to the Saladin vs Richard the Lionheart theme, then it might make sense if there was some kind of invasion from ultramar toward he malestrom much like Saladin claimed Jerusalem, with Lufgt/Richard launching a crusade to taking it back. Then we can throw in stuff about the Legion of the damned and stuff.

[modernangelofdeath]

@malika666

i think the skulltakers company sounds a little to brutal even for the dornian heresy.

@Culebras i think we should stick with the legion of the damned as (probably) nurgle or (maybe) unalligned.

[Coryphaus 101]

Just confirming that the Astral Claws are definitely going to be World Eaters. And what are we doing with the Excorists? That still has to be confirmed.

[malika666]

@malika666

i think the skulltakers company sounds a little to brutal even for the dornian heresy.

 

Why is that so? Note that in the real 40k the Ultramarines had an off-shoot chapter called the Mortificators who have quite nasty skull taking rituals as well. The Sons of Malice when they were still loyalists also had some pretty gruesome cannibalism rituals which weren't viewed as too odd for the Adeptus Astartes.

 

The Skulltakers could then simply be some assault company/terror unit. :D