Death Guard Tactica

[DemetriiTZ]

Why play the Death Guard?

Aside from easy, characterful conversion opportunities, and extensive fluff and information available on Mortarion’s Legion, Plague Marines are a very intriguing animal in our new Chaos Space Marine codex. Point for point, a Plague Marine will outperform a Chaos Space Marine with a Nurgle Icon. The intriguing thing is not the outperformance itself, but how they outperform them.

 

Outperformance, as mentioned above, is nothing new with Cult Troops. All Cult Troops are specialists at first glance, and a look at their wargear and statistics can usually determine what the purpose of the model is.

 

Khorne Berserkers, with 4 attacks on the charge, WS5, and Strength and Initiative of 5 on the charge, no ability to take rapid fire weapons, and nothing besides pistols, and close combat weapons, you don’t have to be a genius to understand that this unit wants to make it into close combat. No-brainer.

 

Noise Marines are somewhat peculiar. They offer speed, but they quickly become expensive with all their sonic weaponry. The idea one gets when they look at a Noise Marine unit is that they are a group of Marines who want to walk forward, laying down loads and loads of assault weaponry firepower, and finish off the survivors in CC with I5.

 

Thousand Sons are Marine killers, and a seemingly dying breed in 5th Edition. Slow and Purposeful means they shoot their full 24 inches on the move, but unreliable movement means you can never depend on them to be exactly where they need to be to deny cover. This means reliance on mechanized transport becomes mandatory, and they run into the very real problem of ‘overcooking’ a target and becoming stranded. Basically, a Rhino-mounted squad of Sons will drive up, leap out, and rapid-fire with AP3 bolter rounds. They will likely liquefy whatever they shot at, leaving them utterly stranded and vulnerable to a foe’s counterattack. While the 4++ helps versus lascannons, melta, and plasma, a smart foe won’t waste them on a Son. Bolters kill ‘em like regular Marines, and at 23 points per model, a failed 3+ save against a Tactical Squad’s bolterfire hurts.

 

So, as you can see, Cult troops seem to be specialists. They are there to pretend they’re Eldar, doing one thing very well to the exclusion of all else. However, without the tricksy defensive psychic powers and reliable, super-quick transportation the Eldar use to support said units, a high reliance on Cult troops quickly reduces an army’s model count, and you begin to see lists suffer from a bad case of Elite-itis. This is why Cult based armies tend to fail in the face of fluffless, combination armies of min-max Chaos labeled ‘Black Legion’ to excuse the use of nine Obliterators, and a pair of Lash of Submission users. Lash means the Cult armies can never get close enough to bring their skills to bear.

 

The obvious answer, then, is Chaos Space Marines, right? The bare-bones CSM has more, and better equipment than a Tactical marine, and a lack of the ability to form combat squads is actually a blessing, as a more specialized role can be defined in a larger squad of Marines, who are better at both close combat, and mobile firepower, than a Tac.

But what about dedication to a Chaos God? Well, why not hook up the squad with an Icon, right? You may not be a full-fledged cultist with all the bells and whistles, but you still acquire a few benefits. The problem with this is peculiar, as it doesn’t apply to every Icon in the same way; in some cases, the cost is cheap enough for the Icon to justify CSM over Cult troops, such as in the case of Slaanesh and Khorne, but due to 5th Edition’s wound allocation, one failed save on the bearer of the Icon means the CSM lose all the benefits you paid points for, and may fail at their intended role as a result. In the cases of Nurgle and Tzeentch, the same problem remains, but is compounded by the further fact that, point for point, you are paying more for a less reliable, less beneficial buff.

So, where does this leave a Plague Marine of the Death Guard?

Well, let’s have a look at him. Okay, he’s fat, and he’s ugly, but we’ll offer him the same examination we gave the other Cult troops (and go into more detail, because, after all, this is a Death Guard article, right?), and see if we can figure out what his ‘role’ is. All Cult troops we’ve looked at were specialists, right? Khorne assaults, Tzeentch pops power armor, and Slaanesh mows down hordes and strikes fast, for a Marine. Cool. So, what does our friendly Death Guard battle-brother do?

 

Hm. He has, as expected, a 3+ armor save, even if his power armor is rusted, decayed, and merged with his flesh, in some cases. He has T4(5), which means he looks vulnerable to a blast from a heavy weapon or high-powered special, like a plasma or melta weapon, but seems more well-protected from small arms fire.

 

So what, right? For 23 points per model, all we have is a CSM with T4(5) and a 3+ save, with lower initiative? The Icon of Nurgle could have given us that, and been slightly more cost efficient in a large squad of 10 Marines, or more, and with so many bodies, our Icon is unlikely to die, and they have higher I. Why pay so much for the Plague Marine?

 

Have a closer look; Yes, he is T4(5), and yes, he does have a 3+ save, like any other Marine. The benefits, however, do not stop there. As we look closer, we see he has more to offer, in the form of Feel No Pain, and Blight Grenades, as well as the standard equipment of any other Chaos Space Marine. The weapons options are all highly specialized, at first glance, which seems to give us some clue about their role.

 

We have a slightly slower (Ini.3), very tough Marine, with high powered, low range weapons, and flamer options for cooking hordes, and enemies in cover. They are equipped with grenades which steal a foe’s charging attack, as well. All of this suggests Plague Marines are, as rumor suggests, ‘campers’. They find a nice patch of cover, dig in, and sit beside a battlefield loot counter until the game ends, trading bolter fire with foes. Between cover saves, stolen charge bonuses, high toughness, power armor, and FNP, we get the immediate feeling that these guys, placed in cover and going to ground, won’t die.

 

Well, that’s true. But so what? The real question is, can a game of 5th Edition, on average, be won with a war of attrition, where a Plague Marine army pretends they’re in 4th Edition, hides in cover, and denies imaginary victory points to a faster enemy? No.

So, that means Plague Marines are useless on their own? That they need other, specialized Cult troops or basic CSM to back them up, and do the hard work? Basically, shock troops to get their cover-save couches warm for them?

On the contrary, I feel 5th Edition has made the above statement less true than 4th Edition, and I will explain the number of reasons why I feel that way.

 

1.) Cover saves are ubiquitous in 5th Edition, and are almost always 4+. A Plague Marine in cover has all the defensive benefits of a Thousand Son, with better close-combat prowess, and we no longer need to be in a piece of terrain to have cover. Cover can be maintained effectively while on the move.

2.) Vehicles have become more durable, which means a Rhino, with its own cover save due to smoke launchers, will often survive to carry the Plague Marines to their destination, living beyond turn 2, 3, and sometimes even 4.

3.) 4th Edition was more about victory point denial, and victory point acquisition, than it was about loot counters, and even a loot counter mission could be won by victory points. 5th Edition is all about claiming and defending loot counters, no matter the cost in victory points, aside from Annihilation. Unless you plan on only winning 33% of your missions, plan on being mobile.

 

Plague Marines are intriguing, as mentioned previously, because I have concluded that they are not specialists at all. On the contrary, they are generalists with durability, which fits perfectly with the Death Guard fluff; Mortarion valued a strong, resilient warrior who could perform any role required of him on the battlefield, and with the Plague Marines, this is precisely what you get; they don’t hit as hard in assault as a squad of Khorne Berserkers, but with a powerfist and a fusillade of melta or flamer fire, they can hit hard enough to solve a problem (certainly harder than a 5 Man combat squad with one flamer). They deal with hordes with flamers, rather than Sonic Blasters. They handle Marines with plasma fire, and rapid-fire bolters. They destroy armored vehicles with melta blasts. In the world of Warhammer 40,000, they are what every general wants most; reliability, and adaptability. You have the security of knowing that, no matter what, enough Plague Marines in one place will solve any problem for you; from a Rhino, to a Titan.

 

A Khorne Berserker cannot say that. A Noise Marine cannot say that. A Thousand Son cannot say that. A Plague Marine will always be able to do something in any situation.

Some Things To Consider About Plague Marines

 

As mentioned above, Plague Marines are generalists. With Krak, Frag, and Blight Grenades, a bolt pistol, a combat blade, and a bolter, a Plague Marine with no upgrades is equally comfortable destroying all but the thickest armored vehicle (Krak’ing rear armor), standing in cover and rapid-firing his bolter, or snapping off a pistol shot and charging into the fray with his foe. On top of that, a 3+/4+ Feel No Pain combination equates to the same survivability against any weapon which allows him an armor save, as Terminator Armor. Combined with higher toughness, this means a Loyalist Terminator will die to a smaller amount of bolter shots than a Plague Marine. That being said, specializing a squad is a great idea, as the basic troop is already fantastically equipped for any unforeseen circumstances. I am of the firm belief that every squad should have a specific role, and redundancy should be present.

 

To illustrate the point, I’ll summarize: Always take two special weapons in a Plague Marine squad. Never take two different weapons. If you do take two different weapons, NEVER mix assault and plasma weapons. You do not want to deny yourself a charge option, and you do not want to dilute the effectiveness of your squad’s ability to accomplish their role. Rely on the basic Plague Marine durability and generalist equipment load out to handle unforeseen problems, but always focus on the role. When you follow this advice, you will have a squad with a sharp, specialized point, and a rock-solid generalist foundation, durable enough to handle misfortune and problems as they arise, in order to provide you, the general, time to adapt and react. Which conveniently brings us to our next topic of discussion: speed.

Adaptability and Reaction

Adaptability and reaction requires speed, focused firepower, and specialization. Yes, a Plague Marine squad built properly can handle almost any problem, but some problems are more quickly and easily solved by a squad more specialized towards that particular issue; for example, you can destroy 10 Scarab Swarms with a 7 man Plague Marine squad with no champion and powerfist, and a pair of melta guns, but the double-flamer powerfist squad will probably eradicate them in a much quicker, more satisfying fashion. But what if the scarab swarms are 18 inches away, and all we have in range are the Melta boys? What if the meltaguns only hit once, and the bolter fire only sheers off another scarab base, before the scarabs land on top of the Plague Marines in question? Yes, they’ll be fine, but they’ll probably be tied up until Turn 5, instead of happily cooking tanks into piles of molten slag, or putting holes in the Nightbringer with their meltas. What could you have done to prevent such a tar pit situation?

Mechanize!

 

Mortarion did not like to rely entirely on tanks and heavy support, but he was no fool, and if the situation called for it, the armor would be used. Well, 5th Edition calls for it, and you have the Prince of Decay’s blessing; each squad of Plague Marines should be equipped with a mode of transportation, because specialized squads HAVE to be placed wherever they will have the greatest impact on the battlefield. A possible 18 inch redeployment is absolutely impossible to ignore, and you are handicapping yourself if you leave Plague Marines on foot. Do not mistake the Run rule as a handout to footslogging armies; Run is unreliable, and is only around to allow an unfortunate squad who lost their transport the chance to make a mad dash for the safety of their destination. Relying on chance to get you where you need to be in time, and sacrificing a turn of shooting for that unreliable chance, is not a game-winning mindset. Mechanize.

 

Nurgle armies have long been regarded as slow and steady; an imperturbable wall of bodies advancing on their goal, laying down bolter fire and being picked off with heavy weapons, or else a static, cover-camping army only comfortable in their own deployment zone, and increasingly weaker as they extend outwards from their point of origin. This is a stigma which has carried over from 4th edition, and a lot of older Nurgle players are still trying to win by attrition, when the road to victory no longer lies there.

 

Ironic, isn’t it, that the most adaptable Cult army suffers from such a stagnant mentality?

 

Proactive approaches to battle is how we win 5th Edition. We hold the advantage when we seize the initiative in a way our opponents do not expect; when we come to them, champing at the bit and frothing at the mouth, sweeping en masse from one battlefield marker to another, we defeat the foe’s preconceived notion of how he was going to win. So, I say it again, victory lies in a proactive approach, and in 5th Ed., it’s all about speed.

 

Let us examine our two sources, then, of speed for ground troops.

Rhino

 

The Rhino has been substantially upgraded by the shift from 4th to 5th edition, in such a way that extra armor seems unnecessary to me, now. Loyalists beat us in technology, no matter how many upgrades we add to a vehicle; in upgrading to ‘Keep up with the Jones’, we secretly handicap our own advantage: cheap wheels. Our transports, while not quite as fancy as a shiny Ultramarine ride, are durable and cost-effective, and with a Cult based army, saving points means more boots on the ground, and boots on the ground win wars. In 4th, a destroyed Rhino meant entanglement. On top of that, Escalation meant no transport squads started on the table. Finally, an easy-to-achieve penetrating hit on a Rhino meant the Rhino died 50% of the time. There were many reasons not to use a Rhino in 4th Ed., and footslogging wasn’t a bad idea, when a battle could be won just by outliving the enemy, and whittling him down slowly over the game.

 

In 5th Edition, the Rhino got his horn back. With deployable cover saves, penalties to glancing hit damage, and vehicles only dying on a penetrating hit of 5 or 6, Rhinos became more durable than they ever were with an extra armor upgrade. On top of that, the doing away with of entanglement for Fearless troops, and no more Escalation, etc, means every squad which is NOT focused on close combat should have a Rhino. Period.

 

Land Raiders

The Land Raider in 4th Ed. was an unreliable pointsink. The Land Raider in 5th Edition is a bear, and can withstand horrifying amounts of antitank fire, especially if kept within cover. Beyond this, it offers a Death Guardesque generalized load-out of weapons, and can function as both anti-infantry and anti-tank, statistically as effective at popping enemy tanks with a pair of TL’ed lascannons as 4 single lascannons would be. A havoc launcher adds anti-infantry firepower, but a combi-weapon is a waste. Daemon Possession is a good upgrade, but expensive, and extra armor is fine, too. However, I prefer my Raiders to be clean, and they perform their role similarly regardless of upgrades. That role is, primarily, to ferry Plague Marines into close range, and close combat, usually with a powerfist and a pair of assault special weapons. Once again, there is no reason to take a Land Raider without Plague Marines inside; if you want anti-tank, pick up more Rhinos and Meltas, or Obliterators (but Obliterators are definitely not Death Guard, nor are Raptors, or Bikes.). If you do not intend to transport Plague Marines primarily, do not bother with a Land Raider.

 

If you do bother with a Land Raider, one is too few, and three is too many. Two is ideal.

 

Loading Out Your Plague Marine squads, & Defining Roles Clearly

 

As may have already been mentioned here, and elsewhere, a Plague Marine squad of 7 men costs around 160 points, which makes a squad expensive to start off with. However, when one takes into account the fact that a Tactical Squad of 10 men will likely cost more, and perform less effectively in both shooting and close combat, we start to worry a little less about adding a few bells and whistles. Take a look at a full squad of 20 Necron warriors. This comes to almost 400 points, and I would wager a Plague Marine squad of 7 with a powerfist, and a pair of meltas, or flamers, mounted in a Rhino and costing over 100 points fewer, would chew them up in a handy fashion. No matter what, remember your Plague Marines are, first and foremost, a brick wall. Enemy units of equal (sometimes greater) value will bounce off of them, and will usually be ground down. Remember, except in very rare occasions, we should be HAPPY to be charged by wounded foes. And, of course, even happier when we are the ones doing the charging.

 

So, we know our Plague Marines, while expensive, will usually outperform similarly costed squads of enemy models. Now, let us look at squad configurations, what they do, and why they are effective.

 

Squad Size

 

10 Plague Marines is a durable, powerful squad, and a pair of special weapons and a champion means people will be very scared of them, if they're smart. They will attract fire, and be whittled down slowly and surely. However, kept safe inside a Rhino or Land Raider, I can see why one would feel inclined to field them. However, in our case, our 'Sacred Number' still seems to apply. 7 Plague Marines is cheap enough to field in large numbers of redundant units ( four or five groups, sometimes more, in 1850 games ), while still retaining combat effectiveness. The 10 man squad is, in my opinion, a fallacy, and one related to the even worse travesty that is the 14 - 20 man squad. We're not a Horde army. Trying to invest too many points in maximizing squad size leaves us with no points for upgrades, and large numbers means footslogging. Huge, footslogging squads mean we're very, very easy to be captured beneath a large ordnance blast, even if the blast scatters several inches. With such large squad sizes, it's highly unlikely they will be in cover very often, which means the number 'advantage' is another handicap in disguise. 7, friends, is an ideal number. They fit in a Rhino, they're easy to hide in cover, and they're big enough to be effective, but small enough to field in big numbers of squads. Division of firepower is another advantage this allows.

 

Now, we'll discuss combat roles for squads.

 

Flamer Squad

 

A Flamer Squad is designed for, primarily, cooking gribblies. A pair of flamer templates reaks devestation on Ork mobs, and firing pistols or rapid-firing bolters alongside the blazes of promethium will cause a 30 man mob to wither. The same blasts will reduce Gaunts and Genestealers to ashes and cinders, bake Guardsmen, and cause swarms of scarabs and rippers to be flash-fried. However, aside from effectiveness on hordes, flamers are highly effective on any squad you can find all bunched up, and a Rhino-mounted Flamer squad should first tankshock an intended target to cause them to bunch up to one side or the other, before depositing the squad in question to catch the bunched-up enemy with templates. Even power armor and Necron living metal will melt when you can catch 8 - 10 models beneath the template. With two flamers, you double that number. This is the same as getting automatic bolter hits, against power armor (cover doesn't matter, they have a 3+ save anyway), and 16 - 20 bolter hits, plus another 5 - 10 from pistols or rapid-firing bolters is enough to make a foe 'feel the heat'. Sorry, couldn't resist. My personal preference is using Flamer squads, complete with a powerfist champion, in a pair of Land Raiders, as anti-horde (and anti-whatever) dual spearheads. However, a Flamer squad does not NEED a powerfist to be effective. A powerfist simply means they can deal with a slightly larger variety of threats, like Monstrous Creatures and Dreadnoughts. Like a Melta, a squad with Flamers can always choose to charge in and tie up or finish off a weakened foe.

 

Melta Squad

 

The Melta Squad is primarily aimed at vaporizing enemy vehicles and Dreadnoughts. While not quite as effective in one strike as a squad of five Fire Dragons, they don't die as soon as they hop out of their vehicle and make their move, which means they have the opportunity to leap back into their Rhino after a successful strike, and move on to another target. Melta Squads are highly effective at destroying expensive enemy models with 2+ saves, and Monstrous Creatures alike, and a powerfist in the squad means they will be a diverse fighting force, very capable of demolishing monsters, vehicles, and well-armored enemies. High invulnerable saves are the bane of this squad, as they nearly neutralize their advantage. Like a Flamer squad, a squad equipped with Meltas can always dash in to smash their weakened foe, or stationary, damaged vehicle with powerfist punches and Krak grenades.

 

Plasma Squad

 

The Plasma squad, or 'Plasma Death' squad, is usually comprised of 7 Plague Marines, and a pair of plasma guns, and sometimes even a Champion with/without a powerfist, but usually equipped with a plasma pistol or combi-plasma. Six plasma blasts means enemies will be very scared to come near 'em, and their primary purpose is to park themselves in cover, usually on a claimed objective, and take advantage of the reasonable range of a plasma gun, sniping models out of expensive squads, whittling enemies down with spatters of bolterfire, and melting them under rapid-fire plasma rains when they manage to close the distance. The problem with this squad, that I see, is their stationary nature, and their easily countered weaponry. A Plasma Squad is useless against a squad mounted in a Land Raider, driving up to shake their hand. A Plasma Squad kills their own range if they change position. A Plasma Squad cannot charge into combat if they fire their weapons, and a Plasma Squad is the only 'specialized' Plague Marine squad which is more effective out of combat than in, so a smart foe will find a way to tie 'em up.

 

On top of that, plasma guns periodically blow up and kill you, so firepower can be unexpectedly reduced by an unlucky overheat, even with Feel No Pain.

 

Should Champions always be included in Plague Marine squads?

 

I personally don't think so. Your mileage may vary. I used to feel like they all needed one, and it certainly makes them all seem scary in close combat. The problem is, Plague Marines, while very much desiring to close ranks with a foe and leap into close combat, are not close combat monsters like Berserkers or Harlequins. Their desire to close ranks with a foe comes from the defensive benefit this offers; hidden in melee, they no longer worry about ordnance blasts, plasma blasts, meltas, and whatever else may pop them. Power weapons aren't all that scary, typically wounding us on 5's (and 6's, if in the hands of an Eldar), losing their charging bonus, and hitting us on 4's (sometimes 3's, with an IC). The only thing that really concerns us in close combat is a powerfist, or a Monstrous Creature with high weaponskill, and multiple attacks. These are rarities, and should be avoided when possible, until victory is assured. What I'm trying to say is, making every Plague squad a CC threat does not really play to the Death Guard's strength, which is defense. You CAN beat a Berserker at his own game, but you need an unreasonable point investment to pull off what a smaller, cheaper, Berserker squad could handle. You also make the foe actively try to avoid getting anywhere near your Plague Marine squads, fearing your powerfists.

 

This is, counter-intuitively, a bad thing.

 

You see, when the enemy actually puts more effort into dodging us, he makes our life more difficult. We want, as mentioned many times before, to be locked in melee. One good volley of weapon fire, and a charge, is Christmas morning to us. On top of that, a powerfist in every squad means a Champion in every squad, and a Champion in every squad means less bodies in your army. Remember, we want specialization with a generalist foundation, and points expended on generalizing every squad into a CC threat is, I've come to conclude, points wasted. Therefore, specialize: If you have a Land Raider mounted squad (or two, like you should have, if you run Land Raider builds), they need a fist. A guaranteed charge with a powerfist and some assault weapons is golden, but a powerfist in a Rhino is a defensive fist, and that defensive fist will actually mean we're locked in combat for less time than we want to be. And also, a powerfist means the foe will be too scared to tangle with our squads, and will prefer to run like a little girl. They're not really THAT devestating, but they are psychological, and they spook Independent Characters. Plague Marine armies should be insidious. You want to lull the foe into a fall sense of security, and certainty. Confidence breeds complacence, and he will be of the mind that what works on a normal Power Armor squad will work on us.

 

Plague Marines are not 'Fire' elements like Berserkers. They are 'Earth'.. but, with our build, they are 'Fast Earth'.. Not so much a 'Mud' build, as a 'Falling Rock'.

 

They bury an enemy. They are Catcher's mitts. They are.. Flypaper. But without a Flyswatter, or a Baseball Bat, we're still stuck in a war of attrition. We need to find our 'Fire' somewhere else.

 

I had a foe who infiltrated Commander Shrike into my deployment zone, with a squad of Assault Marines, and a Veteran Sargeant with a power weapon, and the barely concealed glee on his face when I diverted only ONE Rhino squad with a pair of Melta Guns to handle the enemy unit was all the confirmation I needed to have, to know that Shrike would be dead within a couple of turns.

 

The Proper Mindset

 

Think of your squads as 'Effects', and 'Strikes'. Think of your army, and your foe's army, as a body. Following this, identify the components:

 

Flamer Squads are Erosion. This is their 'Effect'. Like a river, they wash away weak foes, and break off the brittle edges of stronger ones. They erode.

 

Melta Squads are Scalpel strikes. They vaporize and 'slice away' key elements of a foe's army, cripple him, and strike precisely, and hard. They should be used on hard, small, important enemy parts.

 

Plasma Squads are Large Rocks. Funny name, but pretty exact for what they do; they fire in large numbers, and strike hard, but they take a steady aim to hurl, and if your foe can close with you, he can keep you from throwing stones. They should be used on large, distant enemy squads of hard models, aiming to pick them off from a distance, and work best in squads of 2 or more. However, as they are expensive, more of these means less, more versatile squads. Large Rock squads are pretty useless in certain situations; i.e., when faced with an Ork Horde of over 150 models. Small units of expensive models are their prey.

 

These are the Plague Marine squad 'effects'. Next, we will examine the Daemon Prince, our HQ of choice, and the effects they represent.

 

Daemon Princes of Nurgle

 

Daemon Princes are our 'Flyswatter' model. The 'Baseball Bat'. Like the rest of the army, a Prince should come with Wings for mobility, and like a good little Death Guard player, you should give him a Mark. With Toughness 6, and an 18 inch threat range, he was a counter-punch in a more defensive, less 'goal oriented' 4th Ed. army. 5th Edition requires him to be a little more proactive in his methods, and aims. Flown behind cover, or hidden behind a Land Raider, Princes lurk and bide their time until the foe overestimates his own killing potential and foolishly assaults a Plague Marine squad, gets caught in assault himself, or misjudges the threat radius of the Prince. A slightly revealed Prince will benefit from a 4+ cover save behind a Rhino (or Land Raider, depending on the height of your Prince), and in this regard is JUST as durable to anti-tank weaponry as a Tzeentch Prince, but far more durable versus small arms fire. He will, if used in this manner, take the heat off of your Rhino squads, and further divide enemy anti-tank, thus helping to ensure the survival of your armored column.

 

Let's face it, though. Like the rest of the army, the Prince wants to get his claws into something. However, unlike the rest of the army, the Prince tends to finish whatever he's involved with VERY quickly.

 

Let's look at some Prince builds:

 

The Warp-Time Nurgle Prince

 

Terrifying in close combat, and super-effective versus vehicles as well, a WS7 S6 Monstrous Creature with I5 and re-rolls to Hit and Wound is spooky in close, and draws a lot of attention. Hide him well, and use him to leap out and shred unprotected stationary or 6 inch moved vehicles, and squads of enemies your Plague Marines are holding in place. As mentioned previously, the Plague Marines will usually win a fight eventually, especially with a powerfist. The Daemon Prince is what usually turns the tide of battle immediately, and demolishes enemy foes already locked in combat, usually chasing down and Sweeping Advancing fleeing foes. Make sure you want the fight to be over when you send him in, as you will likely end up stranded outside of combat at the end of the assault phase, and you'll want vehicles to hide behind or cover to Massacre into, hopefully.

 

This Prince is also highly effective at neutralizing enemy squads numbering 10 models or less, such as Tactical squads, Necron warrior groups, etc. He can also shred Monstrous Creatures with as much ease, rerolling against their toughness.

 

My personal favourite.

 

The Rot Prince

 

Characterful, and effective in certain circumstances, a Rot Prince has the advantage of being able to kill models in squads he's not otherwise engaged with. Wreaking havock on hordes, a use of Rot usually means 12 - 15 dead Orks per turn, on top of whatever he slices up in close combat. The problem is, he's too focused on something which doesn't really show up all the time: hordes. He's effective in close combat, but in close combats which REALLY need to go your way, the extra reliability of Warp Time, in my mind, trumps the effectiveness of the Rot. I mean, hordes aren't usually going to beat the Prince in close combat anyway, typically wounding him on 6's, so he'll probably win combat and deal extra wounds as-is. Saving the 10 points on Warp Time is a point in the power's favor, but we're not really as worried about 'earning points back' as we were in 4th, so.. Try it out, and see how it works for you.

 

The Doombolt Prince

 

No.

 

The Gift of Chaos Prince

 

Bad in Kill Point missions, as the Spawn are free points for your foe. Good for sniping powerfists and special weapons, and even better for popping pesky Independent Characters. Too bad Tzeentch does this better, with 2 tries per turn. Somewhat useful, but too unreliable for the amount of points the power costs.. Again, Warp Time will probably be a much better investment. Also, useless on vehicles.

 

The Wind of Chaos Prince

 

Cool. The power denies you a charge, a lot of the time, however, and our Prince wants to be in close combat, not stranded. Besides, he's primarily around to help swat the Plague Marine's "flies", and he can't template engaged enemies.

 

____________________________

 

So, with the builds illustrated, we now have our 'effects'.

 

The 'erosion' of Flamers.

The 'incision' of Melta Fire.

The 'large rocks' of Plasma Guns.

The 'flyswatter' which is the Daemon Prince.

The 'flypaper' which is the Champion-free Plague Marine squad.

The 'Right Hook' which is the Powerfist Plague Marine squad in a Land Raider.

 

Now, we can examine the 'anatomy' of an army.

 

The Anatomy Of An Army.

There are 'components' in an army which I try to identify when I face off with someone.

 

Roughly, they are the 'Arms', the 'Legs', the 'Heart', and the 'Head'.

 

The first thing to understand is that not all armies have heads, and not all armies have legs. Legless armies are weak, and do not concern us. Headless armies are common, and can (and often are) effective forces.

 

 

The Head

The 'Head' is the 'Support' HQ. They do not exactly 'think' for the army, but often enough, the 'Head' determines the nature of the army. Eldrad is an example, as an army build based around him would rely on re-rolls to accomplish tasks. An army with Korsarr'o Khan as a 'Head' would be devised around speed, and reserves, etc. Any army which relies on an HQ for a nature to be defined has a 'Head'. Cutting the head off is usually difficult, and usually has an impact on the army, but usually, the bigger the impact, the harder the 'Head'. An example would be Eldrad; killing Eldrad means the re-rolls and tricky attempts to use psychic powers are neutralized, but try powerfisting a re-rollable 3+ invulnerable. Kill Khan, and you remove a powerful HQ who lends excellent benefits to his squad, but the remainder of the army retains the power to outflank, so you do not cripple them. Khan is easier to kill, however.

 

The Heart

The 'Heart' of an army is the Troop core. The Troops are an army's workhorse, and without Troops, your foe is unable to accomplish his goals. Striking the 'Heart' is difficult, in some cases, and is easiest when the opponent has an army with many large groups of Troops spread out across the board, or small groups consolidated into one small deployment area. Combat squads are Hell to kill off, because each one will leave you stranded when you blow through it in close combat. When faced with such situations, it is better to avoid concentration on the 'Heart'. In the other situations depicted, strike at the 'Heart' when able, and rip it out. Do so early, and victory will be all but assured.

 

The Legs

Simply speaking, you have 'biped' armies, and you have centipedes. Centipedes are the annoying ones; armies with too many legs to break. Armies like Jetbike Eldar, Seer Council lists, or Khan builds based entirely around Bikes are centipedes. They have mobility built into them, and there is no way to strip them of mobility without killing them. So, instead of trying to tweeze their legs off, just step on them. 'Biped' armies are mechanized armies, to one degree or another. They 'carry' the enemy army around to where he wants to be. In cases such as these, blow apart the Transports, and you break the legs of your opponent's army. An enemy army with broken legs, early on, will do one of two things: Turtle, or press forward with determination. If they Turtle, it is not enough to break their mobility and let them cower and brace themselves. Pursue your foe, and crush him utterly, using his choice of being stationary to ensure your forces smash into each isolated, stranded section of his army, one at a time. If he chooses to press the attack without mobility, he becomes overextended, and his firepower is reduced if he chooses to run; not all units will move the same distance. If he moves only 6 inches per turn, gun him down from a distance, and destroy him in assault with a consolidated attack from multiple Princes and Plague squads.

 

The Arms

The arms of an army are the army's 'Arms'. Heavy weapon squads, battle tanks like the Land Raider and Leman Russ, Predators, and so on, dedicated assault squads like Harlequins or Biker Nobs, Fire Dragons in a Turboboosted Falcon, Terminator assault squads in a Land Raider Crusader, whatever. They are the 'fists' of the army, when the army comes in swinging. Tear off, block, deny, isolate. You 'isolate' them by tank shocks, 'deny' them by terrain placement before the game, 'blocking' the foe with more durable units and holding them down for your own 'Fists' to strike them down, or 'Tearing Off' the fists from a distance with superior firepower. A foe with no fists can still contest you in the end, but if you break his fists earlier on, you will be able to walk across the field with impunity, and burn down the remainder of his force.

 

Once you identify your own army's anatomy, and the anatomy of your foe's, you are well on your way to devising a means of dismantling him.

 

What follows are some general strategies against various army types; more specific examples will be posted later, as I write them.

 

General Death Guard Tactica

 

For Orks, I can safely say a 150 Ork Horde is easily defeatable in close combat.

 

Orks die from:

 

1. Having I2 when they are not charging

2. Being Fearless, with a 6+ save.

3. Being S3 when they are not charging.

 

What an Ork is, is a slow guardsman with more attacks, slightly higher toughness, and a worse save, if you deny him a charge. So, the question becomes, how do you deny Orks a charge.

 

The answer is: Land Raiders.

 

Yes, Orks can deal with AV14, but they deal with it only through CC, or through highly unlikely lucky shots from Zzap guns, and other scatter weapons. We cannot create a plan to handle a hypothetical enemy around the 'super unlikely direct hit S10 Ordnance blast that rolls a 6 and, oh crap, you didn't have a cover save that turn'. I mean, it happens, but very rarely. We have to plan a tactic around what is 'most likely' to cause us issues. What is the issue, then? Power Claws. They strike at S9, and can penetrate a Land Raider on the charge.

 

Okay, so we know the main source of concern for AV14 with Orks: Nobs, and Warbosses with claws. Cool.

 

How does this apply when you see a 30 Ork Boy squad with a Claw Nob in the squad? Simple; it doesn't. Drive your Land Raider right through them. They will scatter to one side or the other, or they will try a stupid Death or Glory attempt, and their precious Nob will be run over, and the squad will break. Either way, doesn't matter. He's only S8 on the Death Or Glory, because you deny him a Furious Charge. So, with his horde shunted to one side and bunched up, the Land Raider squad hops out, and drops a pair of Flamer templates on 'em.

 

I will tell you from experience; it is not difficult to get 8 - 12 Orks under a flame template. Double that, and you have 24 S4 blasts which deny them armor, and cover saves, plus another 5 pistol shots. 27 or 28 hits, on average, should yield around 14 - 16 dead Orks. This is from ONE flamer squad in a Land Raider. Now, what do you suppose happens when this squad, accompanied by a Daemon Prince hiding behind the Land Raider leaps out, with Warp Time, and the flamer squad charges in? 18 more WS4, S4 attacks. 9 will land, on average, and 4 or 5 will wound. This should be around 4 or 5 dead Orks, barring super-lucky 6+ saves. Combine this with the Prince's 5 WS7 attacks, who re-roll to hit and wound with S6, no armor saves. 20 - 25 Dead Orks, at this point. Now, he has to divide his attacks into whatever models are base-to-base with his own, so whatever Orks touch the Prince swing at the Prince, period, etc.

 

So the 4 - 6 boys remaining (I'm being generous, here) swing miserably at our Plague Marines, or our Prince. They're S3, so they wound either one on 6's, and have a harder time hurting a Plague Marine due to our 4+ FNP than they do the Prince, so trying to have the Prince based with the Nob is a good idea .. a 5+ invuln. is cool, when the alternative is zip. Whatever. Let's say they get lucky, and wound a Plague Marine and kill him. The Claw Nob swings, hits 1.5 times, and wounds 1.2 times. The Orks deal 2 wounds, total.

 

Guess how many our Plague Marine / DP combo did? Heck, even with no DP, the Boys would still fold, and if they didn't get dropped below 12 models, they'd be taking Fearless wounds.

 

You defeat Orks by finding ways to pre-empt their assaults, and divide their squads with tank shocks. You reduce their numbers with flamer templates, and you dive in and finish them.

 

You getting the picture, yet? I mean, I can't really tell you 'This will work all the time', because each game is different, but these are the conditions you should be trying to bring about with a Plague Marine VS Horde army situation.

 

Khorne Daemons, again, are not that hard-core, and I'll be happy to stay inside my tin cans and drive circles around them, carefully choosing which vehicles to unload passengers. With Khorne, you defeat them by accepting that a few guys are probably gonna die when you assault, and planning for it by sending (perhaps) 2 squads charging into one, killing them with Fearless combat resolution wounds, and moving back. We have less DPs, but their DPs are FAR more expensive, and we have plenty of firepower to put wounds on 'em. Depends on army composition, where they deepstrike, how much cover there is.. Too many unknowns for me to tell you what will usually work. My general advice would be to take advantage of how slow they are (no transports), their lack of firepower (few/no guns), their over-costed HQs, their random deployment (both deepstrike, and which army half appears first), etc. Use your own transports to ensure you can bring your entire army's firepower and assault power to bear on 'chunks' of his.

Berserkers without Lash make me Lol. They have crap for firepower, and yeah, they're good in assault, but after you blow up the Rhinos, they footslog through bolter fire to get to you. 4 or 5 Berserkers will seriously struggle against Nurgle marines. 3 powerfist swings aren't that much better than 2, and while T5 doesn't help on powerfists, Blight Grenades drop 1 attack from every assaulter, and THAT is HUGE. Do the Math. 15 attacks from 5 Berserkers (assuming a wounded squad of 8), 12 of which are normal, 3 are Fists. 2 fists land, and 8 normal. Of the 8 normal, 4 wound, due to T5 VS S5, assuming the 'Zerkers charged. Cool. Of the 8 wounds, we lose .5 Plague Marines. The fist likely kills 2, but 1's aren't uncommon. Our counterattack will likely kill 1 - 3 berserkers, which means the lethality of their next turn (loss of Furious Charge, also), drops to nil.

Monstrous creatures? I can't emphasize this enough; range them, and light them up, one at a time, with lascannons. When the wounded ones come near, leap on 'em with Warp Time princes and shred through their remaining wounds. Hop forward with melta squads (Or plasma, but I absolutely loathe plasma.. ), and rapid-fire and melta 'em. Throw powerfist squads at wounded Carnifexes to finish 'em off. Yes, you will lose men, and yes, FNP doesn't help against MC attacks, and powerfists, but the point is, such attacks are a rarity. You are not going to go through a battle without losing a single man unless you're A ) Super lucky, B ) Up against an inexperienced player, or C ) Playing too defensively. You are aiming to minimize losses, and avoid them where possible, but don't be afraid to tangle with a 'Fex with 1 or 2 wounds, if you have a 7 Man Plague Marine squad with a fist. They'll chew him up.

 

Imperial Guard Battle Cannons and the like? Sure, I've faced IG also, and Leman Russes suck, but what can you do? Toss lascannon fire from your Raiders to shake and stun 'em when you can, aiming always for side armor, and roll Rhino Meltas up in their faces under the covering fire of the Raiders. Pop smoke. Next turn, hop out of the Rhino, melta the tank, and if that fails, assault it, and Krak Grenade it to death. Ordnance hurts like Hell, but it's unreliable, and a lot of IG players place too much faith in the big guns, hoping for those bullseyes. Get stuck in.

 

These are general examples and bits of advice I have to offer; my army composition is different from your's, likely, and I include units that make my strategies work. The same strategies may be impossible with your own army list, but this is what I finally settled on for my Nurgle army; I tried defensive wars of attrition and objective holding, but opponents like Eldar can swoop in and contest at the last minute, dedicated assault troops can 'counter-assault' me off of an objective, and people can shell me all day with battlecannons. On top of that, people EXPECT Nurgle to do this. They expect us to be the least proactive Chaos army out there. They expect to see us hop into cover, sit on a marker, and shoot bolters and plasma all day, and that's why Orks usually aren't scared of us, along with a lot of other armies. They know objectives are scattered all over, and our army will have to split up to claim things.. And while we're tough as nails, we're not so tough that 7 Plague Marines can handle 90+ Orks landing on top of them. 30 is fine, but 90 or more? No.

 

You HAVE to be proactive to win decisively. You cannot fight a war of attrition in 5th like you did in 4th. You do not win by victory points any longer; you win by claiming. You claim by going over to the enemy and getting into his lines, assaulting whatever weak points you find with all-purpose weapons (Melta and Flamer are the name of the game, here. No matter what, meltas and flamers can handle any situation, and leave you with more options available after firing.), bolt pistols, and a 3-attack-per-man charge in the end, if needed. Your Princes hide, draw fire, and win the fights you need won 'immediately'. You crush 'chunks' of the enemy, because bigger armies are never consolidated. They spread out, so you slam your entire force as quickly and as harshly as possible into the various body parts detailed in the previous section, 'The Anatomy of an Army'. You strike the heart of the enemy (Troops), the legs of the enemy (Transports), or the arms of the enemy (Big guns, heavy tanks, mean HQs, etc.). The heart is usually the most well-defended, but the most crippling. Rip out his heart, and the enemy will still have a few spasmodic attacks left to toss your way, but the fight will be out of him. Break the legs, and he'll crawl towards you, allowing you to pick and choose where to strike next, with him too slow to react. An enemy with broken legs who stays aggressive is an easy win. Break the arms early, and the enemy will be toothless, and easy prey. Break them late, while managing nothing else, and he will still be able to dash around and contest.

 

 

TACTICAL SPECIFICS: How (In General) To Deal With " Insert Enemy Here "

 

 

NECRONS

 

 

We will start with a focus on Necron army squads, and how they function. Necron armies are comprised of cookie-cutter squads with very few options; Of all the armies in WH40K, a Necron army is one which will offer few (if any) surprises. One vehicle, and usually no more than one upgrade option for every squad in the Codex. (Usually disruption fields, which no Necron player ever pays for, AFAIK.) What does this mean to you? Several different things.

 

#1. Every Necron army will be 99% WYSIWIG, unless proxied models are used. If you see a Destroyer, you know what the squad had, and what the squad does, if you are familiar with the Codex (By familiar, I mean reach the level of knowledge where you can tell you enemy exactly what his weapons are, what they do, how far they shoot, etc. Saves and T values help, also.. For everything else, keep their Codex handy, and refer frequently to it to make sure they're not being tricky. Necron, Tau, and Eldar players have a certain reputation.) You will never run into an Immortal Squad with a Necron missile launcher, or somesuch (for example).

 

#2. Every successful Necron army revolves around a gimmick. If the Necron army has no gimmick, the Necron army loses. Therefore, identify the gimmick before Turn 1 starts (before deployment, even). If the Necron army has no discernible gimmick, steamroll it. No planning required. If the Necron army has a gimmick, examine the Necron army's list, and identify units which do not support the gimmick.

 

1.Anything which does not support the gimmick of the army weakens the army. Memorize this. This is very important to understand.

 

2.All gimmicks expose a glaring weakness. Exploit the weakness, or cripple the gimmick, whichever comes easier. Memorize, also.

 

Some example gimmicks:

3 Monolith Army: Three indestructible (nearly) Necron vehicles. The gimmick, here, is obvious; he wants you to focus firepower on the Monoliths, and not his drastically reduced model numbers. You are not going to reliably kill 2 Monoliths in 6 turns. If you are trying to kill his Monoliths, you are playing into the strength of his gimmick. Therefore, ignore the gimmick. Kill the 'Crons with antitank weapons, plasma weapons, power weapons, sweeping advances, and so on, denying his Monolith's secondary gimmick: rerollable WBB.

 

Destroyer Spam: Usually comprised of 3 squads of 5 Destroyers, and reduced numbers of foot soldiers; minimum numbers of warriors, large numbers of Immortals, and some (or one) Lord, either Destroyer-bodied or on foot, with a Veil, to warp firepower around. The gimmick, as you can see, are the Destroyers. The foot soldiers are the distraction; Destroyers will speed around and try to liquefy stuff with massed S6 AP4 firepower. Death Guard are not particularly terrified of this; mechanized Death Guard even less so. Pick off the Destroyer squads with Anti-Tank, Plasma, Melta, and whatever else. Like a wasp, and a mosquito, you know which one is the real problem. Focus your efforts on killing the wasp, and don't waste your effort on chasing the Mosquito around.. Only swat him when he comes near you, and otherwise ignore his bite.

 

He might make you itch a little, but that's about all.

 

Necron Army and Player Weaknesses

 

Necron armies come from an ancient and inexplicably poorly FAQ'ed Codex, filled with good options, horrible ones, and weird rules even Necron players have issues with, or try to fudge with vagueries.

 

The weaknesses of the army are, as mentioned above, reliance on 'gimmicky' builds to be effective in a competitive setting, a smattering of really bad choices in the Codex which will handicap the Necron player, though he will likely deny it, even if you warn him in advance, and finally, an army whose squads do not offer a lot in the way of versatility. Necron squads do one kind of shooting well. Heavy Destroyers provide fair anti-tank. Destroyers provide good anti-infantry. Immortals provide much the same, on a slightly smaller scale, and so on. The Codex takes a few swings (and subsequent misses) at close combat, in the form of Flayed Ones, Pariahs, etc., but one look at the special rules (Gauss Weaponry, etc.) says, " We're Necrons, and we're not happy if we're not shooting stuff. " This is bad. No matter how skilled your foe is, one look at each squad on his army list will tell you, straight away, what each squad is aimed for. His Heavy Destroyers aren't going to be charging into melee unless he's a moron, and so on. The 'uncertainty' factor is stolen from the Necron player by his Codex.

 

The main weakness of a Necron player is somewhat similar to the saying, 'An owner begins to resemble their pets', and I feel this applies to many armies. Eldar and Tau players are very similar; smug, and self-assured. They are used to speed, and being able to move whatever squads they have, wherever those squads need to be. They feel indestructible, because their speed usually allows them to mow down average and poor players with ease; If you don't have some sort of solution for crippling their speed (or don't know how to apply the solutions you do have), or no means of surviving long enough to close ranks with them, deny them their avenues of fire and victory conditions, etc., you are basically finished from Turn 1. Because of this, Necron, Tau, and Eldar players begin to develop an attitude which reflects their way of winning. They're all smiles and confidence, until you start punching holes in them, or they fire their whole army at you, and when the dust settles.. those Plague Marines are still there. They rely on gimmicks which still work, but which were far more exploitable and dangerous in 4th Ed., and with the nerfing of the Glancing Hit, Necron armies were seriously toned down. The problem is, a lot of Necron players still vainly rely on the same strategies and tactics which functioned perfectly fine in 4th Ed., but perform much less effectively in 5th. The bottom line is: They are, 9 times out of 10, overconfident. Surprise them. Use their overconfidence to your advantage.

Baby, Don't Fear The Reaper

 

The Codex: Necrons has a lot of very expensive options. Some are very durable, and have uses. Some are very expensive, and have no uses.

 

The Monolith is highly durable. If you have absolutely NOTHING to shoot besides the Monolith with a Land Raider, I'd suggest going ahead and moving a full 12'', rather than firing on it. The Monolith is a multi-purpose tool in a Necron army, providing mobility to otherwise slow ground troops, offering an Ordnance blast which can snipe individual models (powerfists, ICs, etc.), loads of anti-infantry firepower, and rerollable WBB. The Monolith is like Eldrad, in an Eldar army; if you don't have a psychic hood, you have to suck it up, ignore him, accept his advantages as par for the course, and move on. Well, if you have a Monolith on the table, and you have no S10 weaponry, you may as well move on, accept the advantages as par for the course, and focus on the Necron army instead.. for, while the Necrons gain many benefits from a Monolith, they also take penalties. You see, Monoliths are very expensive, and every point invested in a Monolith is a point which isn't invested in a Necron model. Less Necrons on the field means the Necron army is easier to phase out. Finally, firepower can be reduced by forcing the Monolith to function as a portal by pressuring the Necron army.

 

This keeps them from firing their silly Ringpop Laser.

 

Bottom Line: Ignore it, unless you have the means to reliably handle it (9+ lascannon shots have a fair chance of doing some damage.)

 

The Nightbringer is a different story. A massive chunk of a Necron army (nearly 400 points!), the Nightbringer offers a short-range lascannon shot, and some fair close-combat ability. The problem is, he's slow, easily avoidable, only has a 4+ invulnerable, and generally sticks out like a sore thumb. The Nightbringer does not support any Necron army gimmick. If he is around, the Necron player has handicapped himself, and is either inexperienced, overconfident, or both. Pulverize the Nightbringer with massed firepower from lascannons, meltas, and even heavy bolters. (I once scored 4 wounds on a Nightbringer with 6 heavy bolter shots.) If you see him on the table, along with a Monolith, a large group of Pariahs, the Deceiver, etc.. Chances are, your foe will have around 1100 - 1200 points of Necrons. Force a phaseout, after your crush his C'Tan.

 

Remember; every point of a Necron army not invested in Necrons, is a point closer to phaseout.

General Anti-Necron Strategies

 

1. Necron resurrection orbs and Tomb Spyders are a problem. Find a way to assault the Lord, hopefully by attacking a unit he has attached himself to, and shred him with a Daemon Prince, or shred his attached squad, and catch him in the Sweeping Advance which will inevitably follow. Tomb Spyders should be picked off with melta and anti-tank weaponry, or finished off with a powerfist.

 

2. Necrons are easily swept in close combat, and a sweeping advance with no other Necron squads nearby, Orbs, Spyders, etc., means all the Necrons lying down will be scattered and demolished. Never avoid CC.

 

3. Never be afraid to approach with vehicles, but use caution. Lucky glances can mean immobilization, even if they cannot destroy you; therefore, for expensive vehicles like Land Raiders, only plow into their lines when you are certain you can deliver a charge. With Rhinos and the like, blow smoke launchers, and drive until they blow your tires. Charge them on the following turn. They’re not particularly scary to vehicles anymore.

 

4. Use mixed assaults to your advantage. Include several enemy units with several of your own in one large close combat, crush them, and Sweep them when they flee.

 

5. Use assaulting a squad with a Lord to your advantage; as the Lord must consolidate first, assault from an angle which draws him (and his Resurrection Orb) away from other squads he was supporting with it, nearby. Follow up with an assault (hopefully on the same turn) on the unsupported squad, and demolish them with power weapons, etc.

 

6. If a Lord is in a squad which loses combat, and the squad flees, so does he. If you sweep the squad, he is swept along with it; no WBB allowed.

The Imperial Guard

 

There are numerous flavors of Imperial Guard. Some emphasize huge amounts of foot soldiers and conscripts. Some focus on massive, stationary gunlines, with huge amounts of heavy weapons. Some are more fixated on mechanized Guard, carrying special weapons like meltafire and plasma where they'll be more effective. Some eschew such strategies in lieu of huge amounts of Leman Russes, and Basilisks.

 

Each flavor of Imperial Guard has a particular flaw which can be exploited, and the key is identifying the flaw, and making sure your counter is capable of closing the distance, and handling the problem. We will first discuss how Imperial Guard function in 5th Edition.

 

5th Edition is kind in some ways to the Imperial Guard, and very hard to deal with in other respects. The problem is, each different Imperial Guard variant reacts in a different way to 5th Edition, and a mission which may pose a dilemma to say, Armoured Company, will be fairly easy to compete in for an infantry-heavy mission. Each Guardsmen variant, therefore, requires a different reaction and playstyle. However, never fear. A Death Guard army founded firmly on an all-comers mindset will be able to prevail under any circumstances, and IG specialize. This leads us to the inherent weakness found in every Imperial Guard army -- The problem with Imperial Guard is the inherent specialist nature of each army list, and not necessarily the individual components. They run into a similar problem which confronts Tyranids and Orks; an IG list will either do one thing very well, and try to solve all problems with their one strength, or else diversify, and do everything subsequently poorly, with very few redundant units. Practitioners of this mindset feel a mediocre response to every situation is better than no response at all; They are correct, in a way, but the point is moot: they're still probably going to lose.

 

Just because a Storm Trooper has an attack profile, it doesn't mean he wants to be in close combat.

 

He has a response to it; it just won't make much difference, 99% of the time.

 

Armoured Company

 

The much feared and vaunted Armoured Company is ultimately a one-trick pony, much like Nob Bikers. They boast huge amounts of firepower, and huge amounts of durability, but the vehicles themselves cannot claim objectives, and they usually have very small scoring power. What this means is, they will have a very small number of vulnerable scoring units, and they'll want you to waste your time engaging insurmountable amounts of AV14 front armor, while their Armored Fist squads try to win the game.

 

What you need to be doing is baiting them. Locate positions of strength on the battlefield. Use wrecked Rhinos as walls which can deny firepower a lock on the Plague Marines hiding behind 'em. Your Land Raiders will be used in a defensive manner, hiding behind cover and firing lascannon sponsons to cripple the Armored Fist squad Chimeras, and plink away at side armor on the various heavy tanks. Expect heavy bombardment from Turn 1 onwards, and compensate accordingly. Hide your armor, and keep your squads inside vehicles. Remember; if he spends a TON of points on Doctrines, he will have far fewer vehicles. If he spends fewer, each vehicle will be weaker, and vulnerable. The way to win a game against Armoured Company is to guard objectives in your deployment well, and use a sudden rush from a Daemon Prince (or a pair), and focused firepower from meltafire, krak grenades, powerfists.. whatever..

 

When he reaches for you, make sure he draws back a nub. Reach for HIM once he has overextended himself. Turn 3 - 5 is when you should become more aggressive; and you should become, generally, more aggressive than you were the turn before, all the way to the end. Make sure you know the rules for each one of his tanks; some have bizarre shells which roll 2d6+8 for armor penetration, but require standstill in order to fire, and never scatter.. some have weird anti-magnetic jelly on them which makes grenades bounce off on a 4+.

 

The rules are old, and strange, but if you know them, you'll be prepared. Remember, he has a lot of armor, but if you can keep him from bringing all of it to bear, and cripple and destroy his few scoring units, he will be forced to start moving his vehicles in order to contest and attempt to steal objectives from you; if he moves, some of his rules are useless, and he is wasting those points. Either way, if he moves, his firepower is going to be reduced, and you want to make sure that the only weapons he CAN use on you are imprecise, unreliable ones.

 

Imperial Guard Infantry Heavy Builds

 

You'll know it when you see it; Infantry Imperial Guardsmen are basically trying to be a 'shooty' horde army, and in many ways, they succeed. They have high leadership, high numbers, and usually use a strong firebase of indirect fire behind their lines (Basilisks, etc.). They also usually add in squads of heavy weapon gunners in defended areas, who shell you with lascannons and heavy bolters. The idea is the same as an Ork army, in terms of scoring; The "Camo Tide" is going to wash over the board and flood you, and roll over the objectives also. You break them in much the same way as you break an Ork horde: You do the unexpected. You rush right up into their face with everything you have, and smash into his lines like the fist of an angry god. You will likely route a squad, so try to assault multiple squads when you can; 7 Plague Marines can easily carve up 60 Guardsmen. If they fall back, and leave you high and dry, or you massacre, try to move CLOSER. Yes, you will be rapid-fired by every flashlight in his army, but they'll wound you on 6's, only hit half the time, and you have a 3+/4+ save in order to soak 'em. If you come under fire by heavy weapons, his own army will provide you with cover. Finally, if you can close within 36'' of his Basilisk, he will no longer be able to aim the shells at you; 36'' is the minimum range. Therefore, always come closer.

 

Needless to say, Flamers are your friend in situations like these.

 

Land Raiders, Rhinos, etc., are also fantastic for in match-ups with Infantry-heavy Guardsmen armies. Guardsmen armies like these love to flee off the board when you tankshock 'em. Just beware of special weapons; know where his Melta weapons are, and make sure you have a solution for them before you proceed.

Imperial Guard Gunline

 

You can really use the same approach as above; he'll have more heavy weapons, likely, but he will also be more stationary. Expect armored support of some sort, and be ready to cook anything with treads with your melta squads. Needless to say, as above, flamers are wonderful.

 

Some numbers to keep in mind..

 

.50 * .16 *.33 *.50 = 1.36%

 

The odds of a lascannon blast landing, rolling a penetrating hit (6), and destroying a Land Raider in cover, in the hands of a Guardsman.

 

Battlecannon's chances of immobilization on a Land Raider are worse.

 

On a Rhino, with smoke, we'll assume a Battlecannon lands a bullseye on it.

 

.75 chance to penetrate (due to 2d6 for armor penetration; normally, a 50% chance) * .33 (chance to destroy) * .50 (chance for smoke).

 

Less than a 13% chance to be destroyed, which is better than a 2+ save. Now, factor in that only 33% of the shells roll a bullseye?

 

Around 4 - 5%.

 

OooOooOoh. Scaaaaary. :rolleyes:

 

Imperial Guard Tank Heavy

 

Less ground troops means less roadblocks and speedbumps between your meltaguns and his precious vehicles. Get your Plague Marines close to his tanks with as much speed as possible, and knock 'em out with krak grenades, meltaguns, powerfists, and lascannons. Your Daemon Princes also serve as highly effective vehicle killers, and will shred his ordnance sources (Leman Russ, etc.) with ease. Remember, you always land a blow on rear armor on vehicles, and Guardsmen tanks tend to have good frontal armor. Unfortunately, they cannot say the same about their rear armor, like we can. Unfortunately for them, of course. Once his vehicles are dead or incapacitated, clean-up work is all that remains. Just make sure you accomplish your goals quickly enough to ensure, even if the game ends by Turn 5, you'll still be victorious.

General Anti-Guardsman Strategies

 

1. Like a Tyranid or Ork player, Guardsmen usually don't care if you mow down 10 men in a firefight out of 200. This seems pretty obvious, but never overlook an opportunity to spray him with flamers, or assault and Sweep a full squad of 30 with barely any damage to yourself. Taking big chunks of his army out of him with every approach and subsequent assault will have a psychological effect on him, even if he is a good player. He will be more weary of coming near you, and you'll abuse him of the notion that a wall of soldiers will take awhile to work through. Remember, even with no powerfist, 7 Plague Marines will kill 30-60 Guardsmen in close combat, easily.

 

2. Never rely on a Tank Shock to spook a Guardsman squad as easily as you'd hope. With voxcasters, Officers, etc., they have many ways of artificially increasing their leadership. Remember, however, they are not Fearless. One poor close combat is ALL it takes.

 

3. If he is stupid enough to leave his headquarter squad vulnerable, demolish the squad. You will usually have a big impact on his leadership across the board, and you'll have an even easier time of routing him.

 

4. Guardsmen believe volume of fire will prevail on Marines. They will expect the same out of us; abuse them of this notion, also.

 

5. Guardsman vehicles are strong in front, and weak on the sides and rear. Aim at an angle, if possible. Most Guardsmen vehicles are AV10 on rear armor; Krak grenades will demolish 'em. Get close, and smash 'em to pieces.

 

6. A Daemon Prince in a Guardsman army's heart will be a threat impossible to ignore. If you need to reduce the anti-tank heat on your Marines, try allowing a Prince to peek out from behind a Land Raider; let him waste those heavy bolter and lascannon rounds on a Prince, instead. Otherwise, plow a path through his lines of troops with your Land Raiders, so your Princes can walk up behind 'em and chew on his vehicles. Your Plague Marines will need no support to defeat Guardsmen in combat.

 

7. Beware of suicide squads (Demo-Charge Deepstrikers, Meltasquads in Chimeras, etc.). They are cheap for Guardsmen, and can throw a wrench into our plans. Be aware of them when your opponent uses them, and try to close ranks with him quickly, before the majority of his deepstrikers can come into play; Remember, if you cripple your foe's main force early, his Deepstrikers will be more of a nuiscance, than a tide-turner or game-winner.

 

 

The Eldar

 

Ah, Eldar. Of all the forces you'll find arrayed on the other end of the table, Eldar are probably in my personal Top 3 of most potentially dangerous foes. You have an army which can field very specialized squads, like Necrons, except they have none of the Necron weaknesses, and even have models which remove inherent weaknesses in specialized squads. Eldar armies are usually quite quick on their feet, and you will rarely find a stationary Eldar army, even if you run into Eldar armies which prefer to remain stationary. Eldar armies emphasize speed, and precision, and use divisive strategies to slice away manageable, bite-sized chunks of an opponent's army, while using their own speed to keep a counterattack away from their own lines.

 

Eldar squads do one thing very, very well, like Necrons. Unlike Necrons, Eldar close-combat specialists do not suck. I once overheard a fellow at a tournament say, " Fighting Eldar boils down to 'shoot the assaulty ones, assault the shooty ones.' " Essentially, he had the right of it. However, a declaration like this offers no real insight into how difficult it can be to do that. No Eldar player worth mention will allow you to simply run over his army with your own, unless he's clueless about Plague Marines. Eldar players will much rather drive around in circles with skimmers, zip from one piece of cover to another, pick off members of your squads with sniping attacks, harass you with huge amounts of low-strength attacks, and, most of all, depress you with rerolls.

 

Yes, rerolls. If you have played Eldar, you know every Eldar player will include a Farseer or Eldrad, with Fortune, Guide, and/or Doom, or else his whole army will collapse. Eldar rely on speed to ensure specialized squads arrive where they are needed, and Eldar skimmers are much harder to kill and far faster than a Rhino. When Eldar specialists arrive where they are needed, chances are, they have been further enhanced with an Eldar psychic power. Eldar psychic powers allow them to reroll to wound, reroll to hit, and reroll any and all failed saves of any kind. Furthermore, because of numerous special Eldar rules (such as allowing an Eldar psyker to roll 3d6 and choose low dice for their psychic checks, or rolling a 3+ save to negate a Perils), you will probably never see an Eldar suffer wounds from Perils. Yes, you will see such an occurence, but you could never rely on Eldar players failing their psychic tests in order to win a war with them. Even if an Eldar fails a psychic power, you will STILL be unlikely to find much in the way of an exploitable weakness in their defenses. Some armies can have a field day with Eldar (Grey Knights, with stackable Psychic Hoods, come to mind). We can not.

 

So, enough about generalizations. Suffice to say, if you can imagine a Codex where every squad can do something well, all squads are highly mobile (if needed), all HQ choices are Support HQs of some kind, and all weaknesses in the army can be hidden or bolstered with a near-guaranteed Psychic power, you will have an idea of a capable Eldar army.

 

Eldar love speed.

 

Whenever an Eldar wants to be somewhere, they prefer to run. Eldar vehicles can skim 24'' (or more, with Star Engines), Eldar squads can usually fleet, and some Eldar squads ignore rough ground altogether. The general theme here is, Eldar like to be mobile. Unlike many mechanized armies, however, Eldar are so mobile, and so confident in their speed and specialization, that they like to flaunt it. Restriction of mobility in an Eldar army is key, if you wish to have a chance with them. Skimmers need to be brought down, and bikes need to be threatened with counterattacks to ensure they cannot move around every inch of the board with impunity. You have to deal with Eldar mobility somehow, because Eldar mobility is one of the aspects which keeps them viable as a contender for a Draw, even if you have scrubbed the board clean of every Eldar model besides a Falcon or two. You have to make sure they are unable to boost themselves near loot counters, tankshocking Plague Marines off of them.

 

Eldar use their speed like we use ours on slower armies: They seek to isolate, weaken, and destroy components of an army, one piece at a time. If you overextend yourself in front of an Eldar army, you will draw back a nub. Be certain of the truth of this statement. This is what they are looking for. An attack on several fronts will not work with an Eldar player, because they dominate the deployment and movement phase with speed and special rules, until you compensate for the rules and restrict their movement. What will determine your victory over an Eldar player is, essentially, how quickly you can break his army's legs, and how quickly you can keep his speedier squads from zipping around as much as they would like. If you spend too much time, and stay too stationary for too long, you will lose. If you overextend yourself, and strike out too early, and too eagerly, you will be shredded, and you will lose. Eldar, unlike many armies, have many solutions to Feel No Pain, T4(5), and a 3+ save.

 

Play conservatively. Have a 'feel' for how viciously you are playing your army, and keep the army on a leash. Never exceed a 50% Aggressive, 50% Defensive combination, early on. Never overextend. Never over commit yourself early in the game.

 

With this out of the way, you will begin to see how Eldar play, and how, consequently, to defeat them. The first thing you will notice is that the Eldar like to tease. They will peek out from behind cover and take sniper shots at you with brightlances. They will skirt the edges of your engagement zone, trying to tempt you to play against them the way you’d play against a Marine army, daring you to send out small groups of your army which are certainly capable of mauling the targeted enemy squad, only to be buried and diced apart by the rest of his highly mobile, rapidly deploying (and re-deploying) army.

 

Do not fall for it.

 

Instead, bait him. See his expensive Seer Council squad on bikes? All 800 points of ‘em? He wants very much to do something with that squad as early as possible.. so, curb it. Sit in your corner of the deployment zone, nestle your vehicles into or behind cover (or one another), and tease him. Snipe his skimmers with lascannons, and pointedly ignore his gimmicky units, until they lose patience and try to engage you in a position of strength. Eldar players are typically not very patient – they want to do everything fast. If their army doesn’t feel ‘fast’ to them, they feel something is going wrong. Concentrate firepower on their skimmers, and ground them. Break the Eldar army’s legs. If they move towards your clumped army to engage you, with half of their mobility or more destroyed, lunge at them with Land Raiders and Daemon Princes, and tangle them up in close combat. Remember: Eldar are specialists, and every specialist unit in the game will fold unless they have the support of other squads that shore up their weaknesses. If you can catch Fire Dragons in close combat, they’re done. If you can lock a squad of Plague Marines in combat with Harlequins (or even receive the charge), you’ll probably win. If you can land two squads of Plague Marines in combat with a 10 man Seer Council, they won’t kill the Council, but you can be certain they’re out of the game forever, so long as you make sure he can’t bring in anything particularly devastating from behind to help.

 

Eldar games can be frustrating, because much relies on luck, and the psychology of the player. Many Eldar games come down to the wire, and rely on gambling – whether or not the game will continue beyond Turn 5, for instance. However, the strategy remains the same – Cripple him, and steamroll him. Steal the mobility and power to contest from his army, and bury his squads, one by one, with overwhelming force.

 

Against The Seer Council

 

Against the Seer council, there are two options available to you: Entanglement, and obliteration. Obliteration is usually the more appealing choice, because entanglement means YOUR forces remain committed in protracted combat, as well. Obliteration, however, is much harder to come by. In order to crush a Seer Council effectively, you will need some careful arrangement of forces. To begin with, you will need both Land Raider squads, and both Daemon Princes. You will then need to lure his Council into engagement range of the Raiders, if not the Princes. In an ideal situation, all four of your units will be in engagement range of his Seer Council – however, the more likely situation is that the Raiders will be in engagement range first.

 

Simply put, the Raider squads are going to dash in, and grab the Council, stealing their charge. Piling in first will be his Farseer, likely one equipped with Fortune and something else. Your powerfist will likely be out of range of nailing the Farseer, so focus on his lackeys. If you kill one or two Council members, so much the better. More important is the fact that, if you arrange your assault carefully, his Farseer will be on the outside of the combat, and subsequently able to be countercharged by one or two Daemon Princes.

 

Let me make this clear: In this situation, it is GOOD to use Warp Time, regardless of his Runes of Warding. Rerolls are what you need to make almost certain this fight goes the way you want it to go. What you want is 5 – 10 re-rolling To Hit/To Wound S6 attacks poured onto his Farseer. He has a 4+ rerollable Invulnerable save against them, but one failure is all it takes to instant-kill him (T3), and knock him flying off his jetbike. Once the Farseer dies, the entire squad will fold without their re-rollable 4+ invulnerable.

 

Entanglement is quite similar: Rather than charge him with Raider squads, you deploy and charge him with Rhino squads. 14 Plague Marines will be enough to bring his Council to a screeching halt, and they will spend the remainder of the game trying to hack through 14 Feel No Pain/3+ armor saves with their Witchblades. This takes around 400 points out of your army, but more than double that number from his. A fine trade.

 

General Anti-Eldar Strategies

 

1. Be patient. Do not over commit or be too eager to engage.

 

2. Wait for your opportunity, and pounce on it when you see it.

 

3. Spend the early turns of the game trading fire with him; you will have an easier time of grounding his skimmers with lascannons, than he will have of destroying your Land Raiders in cover.

 

4. Be judicious with when you take psychic tests, but don’t be afraid to do so; Yes, sometimes we have bad luck, but that’s just how it goes.

 

5. Make every effort to isolate and neutralize his specialist squads which pose the most threat to you, either by destroying their transports, forcing a melee engagement, or smothering them under massed bolter fire and flamer blasts until they go away.

 

6. When facing Eldrad, it is best to ignore him. Simply accept that your foe will have re-rolls where he wants them, and compensate with increased firepower, melee concentration, and stuff which negates the bonus (re-rollable armor is meaningless to a powerfist, etc.)

 

7. No matter what gimmick the Eldar use -- Falcon spam, Warwalker spam, Seer Council, etc. -- the motto remains the same. Shoot the assaulty ones, assault the shooty ones. They are all specialists. Use this strength of their's as a weapon against them.

[AkiraCho]

I hope this isnt a private thing. i agree whole heartedly with what you said above.

 

if i am allowed to id like to take a crack at loading out squads. feel free to delete.

 

with the new codex plague marines have taken a hit in their Initiative Stat. with Initiative 3 in mind, we strike at the slower than the majority of armies that other people play. so why bother to compete when we are bound to fail at speed. taking me to my next point. champions!

 

every PM squad deserves a champion, with that much staying power chances are another army will have their hand with you in close combat, and with high toughness beasts and armored enemies what better to balance out your slow hitting forces than a power fist? it gives you something to fight back with, and hopefully save your squad. power weapons are plenty good and fine but i the power first can do all that and more, even tho its slightly more expensive.

 

and the squad itself. many people enjoy the flexibility of mixing and matching. however i disagree with that. only because of this; PM squads of 7-10 are expensive, rediculously so. and if they are going to do something they better use up the most of their resources as they can correct? you would want your point investment to return to you. so with that in mind. Meltaguns, Flamers, Plasmaguns

 

Meltaguns; are the anti tank and anti heavy infantry gun you have, they are one shot and short ranged. which takes me to why i dont mix and match. if you have one melta gun and one flamer, and you happen to be staring down a land raider, what are you going to do? youd shoot it im sure. and what if you missed that first shot? is the flamer going to do anything? nope. so you wasted an entire squads worth of shooting and did nothing, so if you are going to do it make sure you do it well. get 2 meltas and a combi melta if you need it as well. make sure what ever you are out to do gets done so you dont waste such an expensive squad. turn sequnces are few and surivial depends on taking away your enemy's resources.

 

flamers; they are wonderful anti infantry weapons. if you take two as i said above and load this squad in a rhino or land raider, just toss them out and you will garentee to remove a swuath of troops and have your other marines rapid fire as well, maximizing this squads effectiveness. or you can take advantage of the assault option use pistols and just jump in with grenades. either way, is effective, be careful not to kill too much so your enemy can remove the units that allow you to get into assault range.

 

plasmaguns; effective for heavy infantry and light tanks, they are fantastic choices for sitting in cover and having a fire fight, they are almost like a ranged power weapon! fantastic! but again dont mix and match!!

 

weapon ranges make it too hard to focus on one thing, dont mix and match!! PM squads are too expensive to allow sit idle while only a few guns amoung their number do work in a turn.

 

each squad should have its role in your battle field.

[DemetriiTZ]

(If anyone finds this useful, or wishes to ask questions or request the topic to be stickied, feel free. Either way, more to come!)

[_Cadaver_]

Awesome Tactica so far! I'd comment more but it's getting late. I'll be back with some more in depth thoughts later, though. Possibly a few questions as well.

[ebolatheripe]

Thank you very much for making this tactica. I do indeed find it helpful.

 

One point I would like to suggest though without pulling this too far towards a debate. What AkiraCho said about maximizing the effect of what ever task is given to your Death Guard is most definitely correct. However, I would like to add that if this is the case, two plasma guns have to be considered the best default weapon upgrade for a DG unit. Plasma guns are the only upgrade that equals the range of the bolters carried by the rest of the unit and in so doing is the only upgrade that allows a unit to maximize it's fire every round. If the unit takes flamer, they can't hit targets that the units bolters can hit at long range, so you are missing out on two DG troopers shooting. If the unit takes 2 melta guns the same drawback applies for the flamer, as well as often times none of the other marines shooting when firing at a vehicle. With Plasma guns, they can hit anything the bolters can, but are just better at destroying them, they can be used against any target you want to shoot with bolters so you aren't pumping out less shots, and they still have the versatility to deal with tougher targets if need be.

 

None of this is to take away from the usefulness of Meltaguns or Flamers, because they are great options for specialization, but if you want your unit of DG to have all there weaponry options used to it's fullest each round, plasma guns are the best choice.

[DemetriiTZ]

I agree. However, plasma keeps your squad from charging, and can be countered with an AV14 wall. It definitely has a place in an army, but not mine.

 

I understand the points on flamers and meltas sometimes finding themselves out of range, but that only becomes an issue if you find yourself on foot, unable to get closer quickly, or else trying to stand your ground, which is counter to what the Tactica is aimed at: mobility, and approaching the enemy. Rhinos should be used to close that distance within a turn or two, and ensure that all weapons are within range, precisely where they need to be. They also allow you to use your close combat weapons, which is also something to take into account. Rapid Fire weapons deny you the option of assault as soon as you fire them; Yes, they have better range, but I personally feel you should use them sparingly. They're ineffective against several army builds as well (Ork Hordes, highly mobile armies, etc.), and repositioning usually means you find yourself shorting yourself on range, anyway.

 

My advocacy of assault weapons is mainly because the army build this Tactica advises is a mobile one, and a moving Death Guard squad's effective range is 9''-12'', once deployed. Thus, the longer range of the bolter is mainly disregarded, unless you choose to stand your ground in your deployment zone, and peck at an advancing enemy with bolters, before you rush forward to pour on firepower and engage him in assault. Plasma, I feel, is only useful for trying to set up a firebase around an objective. It doesn't mesh very well with an otherwise-mobile army.

[ebolatheripe]

^I see your points DemitriiTZ. I think they are all valid, but not necessarily the only way to field an effective DG army. For instance, I like my DG units to take less of a specialized role and allow other elements of the army to pick up the slack. Allow the enemy to come to the DG after piling out of a Rhino and into cover. Other elements of the army advance, get up close and personal providing a distraction from the DG units who are the ones that actually win me the game by sniping and generally being too hard to shift once dug in. And I've never had problems with Ork horde armies (and that was my main opponent) while having most of my DG units kitted out with Plasma guns.

 

Like I said in another thread, I'm just getting back to 40K DG after a hiatus, so I could be wrong, but I don't think the points I've commented on have changed in 5th. I guess it boils down to style of play and the role you want your DG to play.

[DemetriiTZ]

Certainly not the only way to field an effective one, no. :ermm: Be careful with stationary elements in 5th Ed., however -- no more victory points, and primarily objective claiming. On top of that, the game can end on Turn 5, so trying to wear down the enemy for 6 turns is no longer a tactic we can rely on as much as we did in 4th Ed. Much has changed. Play a few games of 5th Ed., and lemme know how you do. :cuss

[AkiraCho]

well deme the reason why i personally use plasma guns at all is infact because of 5th editions objective based gaming. i tend to have my plasma squads stand back hopefully within 24 inches of others so they arnt useless. but either way because they are on an objective they are a tough enemy that must be dealt with so chances are someone will come walking your way....

 

and in those situations sitting there and shooting while they come is pretty effective id say.

 

and in no way am i saying this is a stationary army, i play a mobile army with 2 stationary elements to hold objectives on my side of the field and provide cover fire and objective holding...while the rest of the army pushes forward and captures.. yup!

[DemetriiTZ]

It can definitely work. But what do they do if a Land Raider full of Assault Terminators rolls up on them? Or a tidal wave of Orks? Or, say, your enemy stands back the whole game and plinks away with mass firepower? I mean, you'll fail cover saves and armor saves eventually.. What do you do, hide 'em in a Rhino, and keep 'em from being shot at until the Rhino pops, or.. ?

[the jeske]

well nurgle armies run 1 or 2 rot princes to counter horde armies like orks . tactica is interesting and I understand its DG [so no oblits and no counts as , what lets be frank takes away a lot from the army ] , but why the focus on land raider rush armies. they have some horrible match ups and from armies wiedlly played and they are very one trick [few options for different game play with the same list].

[DemetriiTZ]

I just don't think Land Raiders are as bad as all that, Jeske. Drop Pod armies are pretty weak, and if you get jumped by a Khan build, you may lose them, but there's ways around it, and their primary use is to deliver Plague Marines into combat; if my enemy comes to me, I never needed the Raiders anyway. Honestly, Tau, Khan, Drop Pods, Lash builds.. None of those are that hard to beat. The real rough builds to handle, without using Lash, or Obliterators, are builds like the Nob Biker army, and I'm still experimenting with means to counter that. Maybe you have different experiences with 'Raiders. Maybe the people you play against who use Raiders suck. I think they're a perfect fit in an army which focuses on durability.

[AkiraCho]

im not a huge raider fan, in fact i havnt used one since.....the old school one with tracks that are donuts on the side with toothpicks sticking out, so.. like seven years now? but i chose to to do it now, and the Land Raider for me gives my death guard some much needed long range anti tank. but back to what i was saying.

 

yeah i know deme the plasma gun is easily NOT my favorite death guard gun, but it definately has its use. i know it wont hold back tides or anything like that. but on the flip side its just an added punch to the bolter. no i cant flame anyone or take down a raider, but you know what? this unit has one objective and its to hold its position, and death guard are tough enough to sit there and do that, and i can go to ground if i need to. they arnt there to fight just win the game. the rest of my army is there to hit back against your forementioned hazards (Land Raider full of Assault Terminators rolls up on them? Or a tidal wave of Orks? Or, say, your enemy stands back the whole game and plinks away with mass firepower?)

 

if its assault terminators, i have 2 land raiders to counter that tank before my troops even walk up to that objective. so it should be in the process of being dealt with or already dealt with by the time this comes about.

 

if its the wave of works, what else can death guard to but sit and weather the storm as best they can? i still have a few other squads of 10 PM around the field and in the case im being swarmed they will also be hunkering down to maximize firepower and damage as best they can before the obvious close combat to come...

 

if im being shot up by eldar/guard/tau then ill have to deal with that by LR assaulting with a few squads of PM, but the squad still needs to hold objectives...

 

do you see what im getting at? yeah they might be messed up if they are the main event for an entire army's shooting, but it wont be! so im not half as scared but since its 5th ed. i need objectives to win. and i have 2 squads on hopefully 2 objectives. so.. they will do what they need to do. if they can hit someone with plasmaguns from where they are then they will if not then they will sit and rot.. like nurgle does.

 

and again plasma isnt my favorite by any means.. but i take it because its the longest range sit down and shoot gun i can give to a PM.

[the jeske]

Maybe the people you play against who use Raiders suck

didnt say they suck . said they have some really bad match ups . mirror matchs with other chaos [aka BL] armies included and you will always see on or two on top tables . My personal dislike of LR rush armies doesnt stop me from seeing how the list works .

khans builds are not my main worry , there is not much one can do about ouflanking attack bikes or ironclads , I would rather worry about pedro builds they run 2stern guard units with melta and sometimes dreads too . thats a lot of melta on short range without cover . but yeah you are right its hard for me to think about pure nurgle builds . maybe the LR rush is the best army for DG .

[DemetriiTZ]

Yep, seems to be. Past couple of tournaments have been 3x Massacres for me, and I've played Lash builds outside of tournaments. As for Sternguard, I played an army with a pair of Librarians, seven drop pods, 30 Sternguard, etc, all warping around the table. I mean, if he chooses to Deepstrike into my deployment, my Land Raiders are going to be placed centrally, with Rhinos all around them, so the Pods don't fit near anything besides Rhinos. If he Deepstrikes near an edge.. Heck, we'll see what happens if he scatters. Even if he doesn't, he's either going to combat squad the combi meltas and divide firepower amongst 5 vehicles and 2 MCs, or focus fire on three targets of his choice. With cover saves, he'll probably end up popping a vehicle or two, maybe even an LR, but this is all happening on Turn 1 or 2.. Even if every vehicle dies (which, odds are very high, they will not), he's dropped a huge chunk of expensive crap right into the middle of my whole army. Do I care if he kills my tin cans? Nope. The boys inside will tumble out and hide in the wrecks, and assault next turn. If he doesn't kill them, even better. The assault still happens, and I'll just drive up to the remainder of his army for the rest of the game. Just some examples. The Princes, in cover, will soak a ton of meltafire, because he's going to want them dead if he hopes to survive, somehow, after the Deepstrike. 5 melta shots with BS4 is probably not going to kill a 4 wound MC in cover. 10 may, but it'll take luck. That's already 1/3rd of his firepower, and only one DP which may not even die. You're a Lash Junkie, I think. ;) I feel like the things that'll pop a Land Raider tend to be builds where your enemy is coming to you.

 

Or Tau Railgun lines with a ton of marker lights, but whatever. Those aren't too hard, either.

 

Like I said, I've played so-called "Top Tier" army builds like Khan, Lash Prince BL, Green Tide, etc. I've also played folks who are "Top Tier" players in the United States, and won massacres with this list. For every one of the aforementioned builds, I know a strategy which may not always work, but definitely has a high success rate, pending bad dice rolls. My major concern, right now, for a Death Guard list with nothing besides Plague Marines and Nurgle Princes, is an army with a pair of 10x Nob Bikers + Warboss, and a single squad or so of 30 Boys. My main train of thought leads me to believe a Nob Biker army is one of the only armies you can beat with deployment, but not simply deployment of your army. Deployment of terrain. If the Bikers have huge amounts of terrain placed centrally, and you use your own empty transports to block the gaps, you can deny them their turboboost cover saves, and intercept them with every big, nasty weapon in your army, make them take numerous dangerous terrain tests, etc.

 

Still working out the kinks. Worked for me once, but I wanna try it again.

[Schultzhoffen]

Excellent tactica. Keep it coming.

 

Personally, I love Land Raiders as I feel they fit perfectly with DG. At the moment I only have one and 3 Rhinos but as soon as finances allow I'm going to field two.

 

For me it's not only about army effectiveness/winning (although winning IS nice), it's also about trying to make a list that DG would probably use.

 

Anyway, Plague Marines are the best troop choice in the game. What's not to like?

[the jeske]

As for Sternguard, I played an army with a pair of Librarians, seven drop pods, 30 Sternguard,

thats 2250 , right . its not played in europe so I can say a lot about it , seems strange without cantor.

 

If the Bikers have huge amounts of terrain placed centrally, and you use your own empty transports to block the gaps, you can deny them their turboboost cover saves, and intercept them with every big, nasty weapon in your army, make them take numerous dangerous terrain tests, etc

well thats ok for non tournament games , because on those terrain is pre set most of the time[and at least here in "friendlly" games terrain set up is done by someone not playing]. its too easy to win just picking a larg terrain pice as first .

 

 

. I mean, if he chooses to Deepstrike into my deployment, my Land Raiders are going to be placed centrally, with Rhinos all around them, so the Pods don't fit near anything besides Rhinos. If he Deepstrikes near an edge..

see your looking here at a first turn drop with drop pod assault and no one says you have to use that rule . am thinking more about cantor build or "normal " sm armies that run 2/3 meta units to counter tanks just like land raiders . he doesnt have to blow up the LR [not that it hurts] ,its enough if he breaks up the force , if one gets immpobilised . and meta units die any way just like kamikaze termis and DPs/oblits in most games . thats their life.

 

The Princes, in cover, will soak a ton of meltafire, because he's going to want them dead if he hopes to survive, somehow, after the Deepstrike.

well they dont have to . if they put 2/3 wounds on him he is as good as dead if he charges anything.

 

 

with Rhinos all around them, so the Pods don't fit near anything besides Rhinos.

12" is a lot , so mulit meltas will have the range for the extra d6 and its still only on turn 1, unless you stay in your deployment for 2 turns on turn 2 the drop pods and deepstrikes will hit back and sides .

 

You're a Lash Junkie, I think.

I play EC , if lash doesnt work my army dies against a lot of match ups . but that doesnt change the thing that lash is the superior power of w40k right now.,

 

by the way do tanks still pivot on the center of the tank , like they did in the 4th , because I cant remember if they do ?

[AllHallows]

Demetrii would you put typhus in there or no?. Is he useful or just a waste of points?

 

AH

[DemetriiTZ]

As cool as Typhus is, with auto-success Psychic powers, and his weird ForceDaemonPlaguebringer:cuss weapon, he's still more expensive than he needs to be, and vulnerable to Instant Death. He's fun in games where you're not really trying to compete, but he's otherwise way too expensive, and suffers from Abaddon's problem: He needs an even larger point investment to make it into CC, where he's not even that amazing.

 

Re-rollable S6 attacks are much better than WS5 random d6 attacks, which occasionally do nothing besides wound you. Remember, WH40K has a lot of 'random' crap, due to dice. If you can remove some of the random element, and make certain effects guaranteed, or more reliable, do so. If you save points in the process, even better. Daemon Princes seem to be the best, most cost-effective HQ choices, right now.

 

And as for pre-placed terrain, it's not always true, Jeske. Most tournaments I've been to, including Adepticon, had events where terrain is placeable. And yeah, chilling in the deployment zone to deny drop pod flanking is perfectly reasonable. Finally, a Prince with 1 wound isn't as good as dead, really, unless you charge something with a powerfist. He'd chew right through a Sternguard unit without a Fist.

[AkiraCho]

DEMI is pretty much right.

 

for one thing most special characters in general are far over pricesd with a few exceptions im not going to get into.

 

honestly as good as typhus COULD be hell never do waht you want him to, hell never deal out around 250+ pts of damage to make hiss points and this is all on the question if hell even make it into combat at all, hes a gamble and a point sink, hes DEFINATELY not worth it.

 

demon princes are indeed the most cost effective HQ and they draw fire, so even if they die atleast they still did a job that game.

 

basic lords arnt bad if you toss them into a squad and throw them out there, it gives your squad decent melee ability as well. not bad.

 

sorcerors i have no experience of using so thats on you demi..

[DemetriiTZ]

I used to use Sorcerors, but there's so much out there that nails Independent Characters.. Old Zogwort's ability, a powerfist on a failed invuln. save, etc, etc. Being able to hide in a squad is fine, but if you find a 1st Edition Daemon Prince on the market, they hide easily behind a Land Raider, so you're protected in that regard, too. Sorc's are alright, but they quickly become too expensive with wargear. Stick with Princes.

[Argon]

Flamer Squads are Erosion. This is their 'Effect'. Like a river, they wash away weak foes, and break off the brittle edges of stronger ones. They erode.

 

Melta Squads are Scalpel strikes. They vaporize and 'slice away' key elements of a foe's army, cripple him, and strike precisely, and hard. They should be used on hard, small, important enemy parts.

 

Plasma Squads are Large Rocks. Funny name, but pretty exact for what they do; they fire in large numbers, and strike hard, but they take a steady aim to hurl, and if your foe can close with you, he can keep you from throwing stones. They should be used on large, distant enemy squads of hard models, aiming to pick them off from a distance, and work best in squads of 2 or more. However, as they are expensive, more of these means less, more versatile squads. Large Rock squads are pretty useless in certain situations; i.e., when faced with an Ork Horde of over 150 models. Small units of expensive models are their prey.

 

Would this apply to regular Chaos Marines? I need a some ideas for what I should load my Marines with, and this is really helpful towards that end.

[DemetriiTZ]

I don't see why not. :tu:

[Leonar the Nutter]

amazing Tactica, well done,#

 

its nicely put to gether, not just random ideas in a mess, but ordered,

 

thanks alot, tho i dont play nurgle,(for me, the blood rush of 8 berserkers) i play aganst them alot, and it helps to know the strenghts and weekness of your enermy

 

so thanks.

[Argon]

I don't see why not. :lol:

 

Yay!

 

I assumed that it was for DG only. I guess not.