Death Guard Tactica

[Ðrakus]

Thank you for the clarification everyone! that is what I was trying to tell my buddy but he was insisting that because the sponsons where bought as one that they also fired as one… I will be sure to let him know :tu:

 

I am still on the edge about the Raiders, I know they are good and the only assault transport + can still lay down some pretty heavy fire. My thing is that it seems your points would be better spent getting rhinos for transports then using the extra points for preds, vendi, defiler for your heavy weapon support instead of having 1 tank that has to choose each turn to either fire or transport, then further decide to move 6 to fire 1 weapon or move 12 to get there faster. This way you would have rhinos doing what they do, heavy doing what they do and your would have more vehicles on the board for your opponent to have to decide to attack.

 

I guess bottom line I just need to try both lists out and see what fits and works for me best.

 

BTW I don’t know if this is the right place for this, so feel free to edit it out. But I would like your guys opinions on these list I was thinking of running.

 

 

 

DP, MoN, Warp, Wings --- x2

 

PM( 7 ), AC w/ PF & Combi-flamer, Flamer x2 --- x2, these are in the Raiders

 

PM ( 7 ), AC w/ PF, Melta x2, Rhino --- x3

 

Raider --- x2

 

If I am facing a Horde army then the DP get rot, one of the Melta squads switch to Flamer, and all AC get Combi-Flamer.

 

Thoughts? Criticisms? Swift kick in the ---?

[AkiraCho]

gotta love that big black book! and im not talking about the book of grudges! (zing!!)

[AkiraCho]

Thank you for the clarification everyone! that is what I was trying to tell my buddy but he was insisting that because the sponsons where bought as one that they also fired as one… I will be sure to let him know :tu:

 

I am still on the edge about the Raiders, I know they are good and the only assault transport + can still lay down some pretty heavy fire. My thing is that it seems your points would be better spent getting rhinos for transports then using the extra points for preds, vendi, defiler for your heavy weapon support instead of having 1 tank that has to choose each turn to either fire or transport, then further decide to move 6 to fire 1 weapon or move 12 to get there faster. This way you would have rhinos doing what they do, heavy doing what they do and your would have more vehicles on the board for your opponent to have to decide to attack.

 

I guess bottom line I just need to try both lists out and see what fits and works for me best.

 

BTW I don’t know if this is the right place for this, so feel free to edit it out. But I would like your guys opinions on these list I was thinking of running.

 

 

 

DP, MoN, Warp, Wings --- x2

 

PM( 7 ), AC w/ PF & Combi-flamer, Flamer x2 --- x2, these are in the Raiders

 

PM ( 7 ), AC w/ PF, Melta x2, Rhino --- x3

 

Raider --- x2

 

If I am facing a Horde army then the DP get rot, one of the Melta squads switch to Flamer, and all AC get Combi-Flamer.

 

Thoughts? Criticisms? Swift kick in the ---?

 

 

 

OKAY ERE WE GO!!!

 

that list is plenty fine vs horde armies. the combi bolter are a bit over the top and arnt essential! BUT! they are not bad to have!

 

go back and re-read the tactica part on how to deal with hordes using death guard/land raiders. as long as you tank shock them into clusters and pop out flame both sides you SHOULD roll around 90-100 to wound dice. half of which should hurt and kill instantly. use both raiders, tank shock right down the middle side by side. move slow enough so your troops can jump out first OR jump out before tank shocking 12 inches. either way get those flame templates out there they are your only hope.deny ALL charges at you no matter what. orks are garbage without the charge. you dont need to switch out the melta squads vs horde btw. youll need it to kill heavies. such as... tyrants, carnifex, ork bikes... ect

[AkiraCho]

as for raider vs regular tanks. i do regular tanks but i have also run the raiders, Demi uses the raider list to much success and i have run the regular tanks list to much success as well. so i can honestly say both work equally well depending on player preference so dont fret at all.

[Rod Hull]

I really can't agree that Summoned Lesser Daemons are rubbish. They cost just over half the price of a Plague Marine and can run or assault in the turn they arrive. They are Fearless, have a 5+ invulnerable save, and the same statline as a normal Marine. And you always get to put them exactly where you want.

 

As speedbumps, skirmishers, or surprise objective takers they are very useful. They aren't as good as Plague Marines because they aren't meant to be, they perform a comlpetely different role. Plague Marines are heavy infantry, Lesser Daemons are light infantry. You might as well say that you shouldn't bother with Rhinos because they are just useless compared to Predators.

You need to put some thought into what you want them to achieve, and play to their strengths. Instead of writing them off because they don't do another unit's job as well as the unit designed to do it does.

[nurglez]

This army is pretty much a direct copy of the orginal posters army list, posted somewhere on this forum. With which he won a tourniment. ^_^

 

I use a modified 1500 point version of this list with 1 raider, vindicator, prince, 4 squads 3 rhinios.

 

Only used it once, but it kicked ass vs individed marines. Kill point mission, i lost 5 PM and 3 wounds from my prince, at the end of turn 5 he had a rhino left.....

[Augssan]

I am one lost souls from Deathguard.org and got to say I love this thread.

 

I just changed up my list by about 25% to try out some of these tactic and I like what I have seen in my first game with this list.

 

We run at 1750 at my local game store.

 

DP - MoN, Wings, Warp Time

DP - MoN, Wings, Warp Time

 

Summon Greater Daemon

 

PM @7 Meltas x2, Champ w/PF, rhino (Times 3)

PM @10 Flamers x2, Champ w/PF, combi flamer

 

Landraider w/ extra armor, dirge caster

 

I would like to make a request when you have time to get around to. Daemons are a the number 1 or 2 winners in most of the local RTTs in the Orlando area and we have 5 different stores in less than hour drive so it is easy to hit up the different RTTs. The list that I am referring to is the Fateweaver / Khorne spam namely 3 good size units of Bloodcrushers supported by Fateweaver. If you have not played that list as CSM it can be very painful. I know we had a small section covering daemons but I was hopping to get some ideas to help deal with the Fateweaver combos.

 

Thanks guys, keep up the good work.

[Almighty1]

Shoot Fateweaver and try to get him to run (he can flee the table if he takes a wound), either that or (since he has a damn re-rollable 3+ invunerable save (i think?)) you could always use your Rhinos to block your troops from assault and rapid fire his bloodcrushers.

Finally you ccould draw his forces apart, Fateweaver needs to be nearby to the models to grant them the re-rollable save, use this to either draw fateweaver into combat or force the units near him to spread out.

 

That's what i would do, hope that helps.

[DemetriiTZ]

Orlando, eh..

 

I live in Miami.

 

Maybe I'll slither upstate and chew on some of these supposed RTT champions a little, and find out what works well? -_- Could you give me the names of the stores? And, have you ever made it down to Miami? I've played at Tate's, Sunshine, and the Silver Dragon.. I was actually considering a little trip to Orlando, sometime. :D

[Augssan]

Cool, I am glad I have someone that can suggest gaming locations if I ever move back to Miami.

 

The three main locations here that I would consider are Rhubarb Games, Sci-fi City, and Colosseum. If you search for Rhubarb's site and look under the 40k gallery you can find my painted Death Guard army there.

 

Ya let me know when you come up we can get some games in and talk shop.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input into this thread.

[Ðrakus]

Well got to say thank s for the advice here… great work!!

 

I tried out a list yesterday similar to the one I posted earlier, which is pretty well identical to the OP’s list. I almost feel bad for the guy I played ( a Necron )… We played a annihilation ( Kill Point ) with Dawn of War setup and I was first.

 

First and second turns were pretty uneventful, mostly warriors and destroyers shooting and my Raiders, resulting in about 8 shaken/stun results ( Thank you Extra Armor ) and 2 weapon destroyed on one Raider losing both las. Also materializing out of nowhere was a Monolith, with a crackling energy that engulfed my DP and two Raiders, but Nurgle kept us strong.

 

Then turn 3 hit :sick: …. And all hell broke lose as Father Nurgle deemed that Necrons needed a few extra plagues. I started by tank shocking to squads of warriors with the Raiders, then unloaded 3 flame templates from each group within. Group ones DP was just out of charge range, but not to worry the PMs charged to tie them up, the PM’s watched with glee as three warriors crumbled to a pile of rust, the warriors unable to land a blow. The remaining warriors made a break for it, but it was to late for them.

 

Group two’s DP was in range and he and the PM’s charged a squad of warriors that were joined by a Lord; and finding that their approach was slowed by some unseen force. The DP took a large swing and watched as three warriors were cut in half by his huge blade. The lord not close enough to counter the DP swung his blade at the PM’s, dropping one like a sack of bricks, The PM’s facing down a Lord with a warscythe decided their efforts would be better turned to the warriors, and their rusted blades downed another three warriors. The Lord finding himself standing with but a single warrior next him decided to hightail it.. but the DP returning to a swarm of a thousand flies ( this is my Wings for my DP’s) engulfed the Lord and drug him to the ground as his body rusted and crumbled to dust.

 

In the bottom of turn three, the few remaining Necros are joined by a second Monolith which then opens its eerie portal and another squad of warriors walks out and opens fire on a DP, but His rotten flesh proves to much and suffers but a single wound. A lash of green energy streaks across the sky and strikes a unit of PM’s disintegrating three of their number.

 

Top of the Forth, the Death Guard turn to the newly arrived warriors. Two squads open fire with flamer and meltas, reducing four of them to slag before charging in with their fearless DP. Needless to say the warriors didn’t even survive to take a swing at the filth raging towards them.

 

Seeing the slaughter of the final group of warriors the lone Lord with his retinue of wraiths, examines the battle field for his men… only finding three destroyers, the Monoliths and himself to be still standing sends the order to retreat; leaving the Death Guard alone on the battlefield.

 

Sum:

 

Necron = 0 kill points

DG = 4 kill points

[nurglez]

Nice, though, yeah, a bit unfair for the poor necrons, DG's lower I isnt much of a handicap against necrons, and considering you were up against 2 liths, you did the right job of forcing a phase out.

[Corpse.]

Oh a DG area for tactics. Hope I can add mine without the same critique from my last subject in undivided section...

 

Assuming, that DG portion here means no basic units with IoN. I'll just post my death guard-esque force I made a while back.

 

2000 Points

Lord: Mark of Nurgle, Daemon Weapon, Meltabombs. ==155

20 Death Guard: 2 Meltas, Champion with Powerfist. +Rhino with combi. ==520+40

20 Death Guard: 2 Meltas, Champion with Powerfist. +Rhino with combi. ==520+40

20 Death Guard: 2 Meltas, Champion with Powerfist. +Rhino with combi. ==520+40

Vindicator: Stock ==125

1 Spawn: Stock ==40

 

This list is simple, the rhinos rush forward and turn their flanks to the enemy causing large line of sight block and the vindicator helps the three survive the first round of shooting if they dont get the first turn. Vindicator blasts will be threatening, so all 4 tanks roll forward 12" and use smoke to survive and to maintain cover for 60 plague marines. The points filler spawn is the dog, and he gets sicked on the rogue stuff in the corner or chase after something that comes close to tie them up. The whole force just runs at the enemy and eats them up from the inside out. Much like the rest of my armies work, its all about giving saves to a horde and I have been using this style for a while. It's done me wonders and as won me more games then lost. Skimmer armies and forces heavy in power weapons often ruin this tactic. You can get empty rhinos for 20 squads. You could run 6 units and give them separate upgrades but I find its better to have a full 20 where you get to charge something between a crack of tanks or something, you involve 20 full bodies rather then 10. I can line up wide and take hits in force, three rhinos keep the waves alive long enough to see them used as terrain to walk past and get to the enemy.

 

I dont remember my w/l/d ratio of this force but I can tell you it angers our local deathwing players to no end. (20 marines charging 10 terminators, you would be surprised which side wins). Termies normally lose 3.5 with math-hammer. And they just fall from there. I consider the numbr 21 for each squad, since they are 20+1 (rhino driver) a fluffy choice. I thought about removing the dog and changing down to 4 units of 14, since they are fearless. Though I got cought up in other army ideas before I could meddle with it.

 

Edit: goofed on typo before copy+paste heh..

[Devaroze]

since when could Rhinos hold 20 models? I understand if its for private games and your opponent agrees but in tournament play or if you play at your local store, then rhinos can only hold 10 troops, unless Im missing something.

[Corpse.]

They dont hold 20 models, you can take a rhino with any size squad. I just use them as a mobile wall for cover saves and line of sight blocking. Marines run, rhinos are a tad faster, and large numbers of marines guarded by very few rhinos without the worry of being inside one when a rhino blows up.

[Artemis360]

Thats sneaky in the extreme. I'd have no problem with it but I bet you get people complaining sometimes, right?

[Jorg]

Codex Chaos Space Marines page 96, under Chaos Rhino:

 

"The Chaos Rhino can carry up to ten models."

[DemetriiTZ]

I can't imagine why people would complain. There are plenty of ways around a Rhino wall, such as using hills for vantage points / denying cover saves. The Plague Marine horde is a functional build, with some glaring weaknesses, just like Nob Biker armies. They either work very well, or they are highly ineffective, with not much gray area. Any Eldar or Dark Eldar skimmer army would demolish a force like this, as would any army with a high number of pie plates, such as New Imperial Guard. I recognize that you can hide in the Rhinos when the squads start to dwindle, but..

 

Yeah. Not a style I'd recommend in an all-comers build.

[Corpse.]

I always run horde style with a hint of durable saves. Without a heavy theme I have my 2 troops of 20 marines with icons of tzeentch cover for the other units behind them. Usually nurgle raptors and 20 khorne possessed (80 power weapon/rending/str6furious charge attacks, 50% chance for something good!). Thats my 2k.

 

With themes where I cant build off a front unit to take hits, I throw in rhinos to make cover for them. Nurgle, Khorne, Slaanesh cult forces. I havent really delved into tzeentch(sons) but they dont fit my style of overwhelming melee. At least as sons, the icons for regular marines are good.

 

Most games have about 12 marines per 500 points, I use 20 minimum per 500. (Know when you get that feeling you wish you had just 5 more to get the job done? I usually have 16+ at that point, always trying to give cover to them so a normal marine is tougher then a land raider vs certain foes!!!)

 

 

Edit: Oh just read the post nearest to this one...

I've been facing the new IG for 2 weeks now. They arent much. Tanks in melee=hit their rears. Tank squadrons (every tank but two, chimeras and a special artillery) ends up spreading the krak hits among the squadron. The baddest blasters are usually open topped, and in squadron rules for taking damage any immobilised results ends up vehicle destroyed results. They wont use their pie plates for fear os scattering into their battle line and when they have to tank shock and run, I often get shots on their rear armor with my meltas (or worse, i chase them down endlessly because of 12" distance limit!). IG are NOTHING if you practice melee. Try and outshoot them well yeah, your done for.

 

Skimmer armies yes I agree, that is my weakness but lately my deployment against these armies have improved, and now catch them offguard more often then they want to admit.

[blindman]

In this edition I haven't use lesser daemons in most of the games. In the past edition I used them in every game I played but, in this edition, are less though (R4) than before, so I only use them against S3 armies

 

Nevertheless, tha can be used as surprise element for blocking an assault or taking an objective although they were "only" R4. Now are basically cannon fodder used as pawns.

 

It's important to consider that a pawn in the correct place on the table becomes on a queen.

[Corpse.]

Or you can sum up the math that 10 DG+upgrades (230+40+20+35*transport*=325) as ten, twenty, nope... 25 full daemons. All inv saves, and 150% more melee attacks. Durability is different, being that power weapons negate FNP and armor saves while daemons flourish in that enviroment.

 

25 wounds with saves you can (almnost) always take compared to situational 10 troops and a tank. Including the fact that small 65 point scoring squads can be left behind on an objective without the fear of running away from it. Five troop units at your disposal, where a few at the very least will spawn up for you.

 

They are fun and worthwhile. Marines in general are above par for their cost. Daemons lacking a few save points is no big deal, and when facing many things of equal points value they dont blaringly fail at facing them. (Unless its a wraithlord/Ctan/dread, then its tarpit)..

[Almighty1]

I have to agree, and I have used lesser daemons for both assault and deffense to great effect, rather than let my Smurf buddy's power weapon and fist heavy command squad charge my precious pus-buckets, i fed then a unit of lesser daemons, he didnt have tome then to finish them off and come after me, good times, and each unit can be useful, especially when you can assault on the turn they appear with an icon, combined or split charge, your'e gonna do the damage.

 

But yeah, if its a monstrous creature or such, your'e screwed, hence "the right tool for the right job" and the daemons deffinately have their place.

[nurglez]

I havent used daemons (apart from my prince, though hes more of a uber hard marine) since they got rid of nurglings, I loved those little guys.

 

Always used to run a squad of them, 7 bases of course. Never forget the game where they got charged by a depleted squad of grey knights, and wiped out, then thanks to daemonic possession, they came back on from my board edge, charged the same marines and took down the 3 remaining Gk, you should have seen my friend's face!

 

Oh, and on the subject of rhino's, I believe all cult troops apart from khorne berzerkers can take them regardless of squad size, it just states a rhino may be bought for this squad. Same way you can buy a 10man devestator squad a razorback.

[Jorg]

Yes, you could take a Rhino for any squad, regardless of size as far as I see it. But you can never cram more than ten peeps into one of them.

[DemetriiTZ]

( Just bumping this to keep it from slithering onto Page 2. An update is forthcoming, soon.)