Paradigm Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I really like this chapter, I take it that you will be using the Dark Elven corsair bits for your conversions? I admit that they just scream use me as chapter Iconography. Have you considered using the Squid/Octopus head Flagpoint for your Sergeant Icons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 When I get around to making an army for these guys, I'll be using several kits for conversion. Chaos Space Marines, Orks, and Dark Elf Corsairs and Cold One Riders bits all. About the back banners, maybe it's just how they painted it, but even in bare plastic, I just hate the look of the Kraken standard head. I love the look of the serpent one, and I'll be adding the sea serpent to the Chapter's heraldry. I'm glad you like them :( . Please tell me what it is you like and what you think could use improvement. basically you have two options here, if barbarossa is still active, but tainted the chapter either recognizise barbarossa as the ligitiamte captian of the second and they are still "part" of the chapter. or he and by extension his company ie exiled, which would mean they are struck from the ranks of the chapter. this leads us to the same place odddly enough. If he is still part oif the chapter they would not reform the 2nd. If he is exiled this is a big hit to the chapters honor. in a simalar situation, the space wolves leave the rune stone of the 13th company blank, weather this is in honor or shame is a open point. but it seems like an analogous situation to the one that your chapter findes itself in. In the same way the LOD seems like a decent analog to the 2nd, they are part of no chapter, but occasionally they show up to help. this is kind of the way I see your 2nd company opperating. they show up to help your chapter, but they are no longer really part of the chapter. the only way I could see them reforming the 2nd is if the chapter thinks barbarossa is dead, and really alot of time is the only way that can happen. that said if you want to use the blink in the astronomicon, well that happen fairly recently and the would just not be enough time for the psycological scars and dishoner to fade, not to mention to raise 100 space marines. I see what you mean Kil. However, and I don't know if this would fit or not, Barbarossa self exiled himself. I'm sure that if given the chance he would have been welcome back with open arms, perhaps some of his marines might have been shunned, but for the most part the Marines just had bionics. Maybe it was known that Barbarossa wasn't going to be around. What was Ventris's punishment for not following the Codex? A Death Oath? Something of that sort is what Barbarossa is doing, except his task isn't set, it's just fight unto death. I really don't know how my Chapter would look at this event. A Codex Chapter would be ashamed where as another Chapter might be proud to have someone neck deep in green skins. From what you see, what would you think? The one thing about the Reformed Second that I like the most is that the Commander isn't a Captain, but has all the responsibilities of one. While I hate to bring up the Prequel Trilogy, remember Revenge of the Sith when Christensen is brought to join the Jedi Council but Jackson doesn't give him the title Master? He then goes on a rant about how it's unfair despite being given a great honor. Just the idea of something like that in a Chapter makes me smile. The funny thing is that that analogy is something that I just realized. I've decided to drop the idea of the Astronmicon blinking, it happened too late, it wouldn't be interesting if it just happened. I think that a malfunction in the warp would serve me best. I'll have to sit on this one, thanks. To be honest I don't know where to improve it. The few things I thought to suggest others beat me to. I like the idea of treating the second company as a sort of thirteenth company for the chapter, however I do like the idea that the chapter wants to hunt them down to retrieve their helm, and I would also sort of treat them as the dark angels treat their unforgiven, however I'd still fluff it out that even though they are disgraced and hunted, they still come to their chapters aid. I'm not super keen on the story of how the Kraken Head Helms were retrieved, it makes me wonder where they came from and why marines would be wanting to put them on their head? I like the story itself, it actually would be an interesting concept outside of 40k. I guess I just see the chapter as either using relics that are from their parent chapter or that were awarded to them by other imperial institutions. I would kind of expect them to be somewhat like the skull helms of the chaplains, in that they look like skulls but contain all the same things a standard MK6 or better helm would have. It would be interesting if they were manufactured by a long dead chapter artisan of unparalleled skill, and thus they are irreplaceable? How do you mean like the Unforgiven? I'm interested in what you mean here. Does it come across as though they are disgraced or hunted? I agree with the helms story, and I'll be sure to add more detail to Denarious's treasure hunt. Once again, thank you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 To be honest I don't know where to improve it. The few things I thought to suggest others beat me to. I like the idea of treating the second company as a sort of thirteenth company for the chapter, however I do like the idea that the chapter wants to hunt them down to retrieve their helm, and I would also sort of treat them as the dark angels treat their unforgiven, however I'd still fluff it out that even though they are disgraced and hunted, they still come to their chapters aid. I'm not super keen on the story of how the Kraken Head Helms were retrieved, it makes me wonder where they came from and why marines would be wanting to put them on their head? I like the story itself, it actually would be an interesting concept outside of 40k. I guess I just see the chapter as either using relics that are from their parent chapter or that were awarded to them by other imperial institutions. I would kind of expect them to be somewhat like the skull helms of the chaplains, in that they look like skulls but contain all the same things a standard MK6 or better helm would have. It would be interesting if they were manufactured by a long dead chapter artisan of unparalleled skill, and thus they are irreplaceable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Just thought I'd add some notes on the Chapter's homeworld, Charybdis. Name: Charybdis Water World Island chains Floating islands Mobile cities built on ships Transportation: Boat and Airship People: Citizens of cities are architects; aristocrats; artists; doctors; farmers; fishermen; merchants; musicians; scholars; PDF: Imperial NAVY; troopers; Pirates; Sky pirates Charybids was once a mountainous world with cities carved into the sides of the mountains and plateaus. Rivers streamed through the canyons and inside the canyons millions of drills excavated precious ores and minerals. These valuable materials and the beautiful jewelry planetary artists and jewelers created with them were the world’s primary export, yet many aristocrats hoarded great deals of treasure, selling particular items of worth in difficult times to maintain their extravagant lifestyles. Despite not being a forgeworld, Charybdis was renown for it’s artists and inventors, attracting the attention of Magos [NAME] who spent several decades on Charybdis. In his time on the world, [NAME] crafted many weapons and tools, many of which he left on the world in the hands of the artists who provided his housing. Among the Magos’ works were eleven astartes helms, none of which were ever used by actual Astartes before the Horus Heresy and they were lost. At the time of the Horus Heresy, Charybdis was a fierce battle zone between the planetary defense force and invading traitor mechanicus and army men. In desperation, the PDF melted Charybdis’ ice caps, submerging all but the world’s highest peaks. Countless traitors died under the rush of water. However, the cost was great, millions of innocent civilians were washed out and drowned and all of the world’s treasures and drills for extracting them were washed down with them, lost. Since these events, topographical shifts and volcanic formations have raised more islands from the sea, and treasure hunting has become a practical hunt, though much of the easily accessible treasure has long been taken, it is not uncommon for men to go swimming and surface with a small handful of golden coins or other such valuables. Since the world’s flooding, many ships have been imported and have served as floating cities and PDF vehicles for centuries. An unnatural formation that has been on Charybdis for unknown millennia have been the floating islands that sail across the sky. Their uses extend from cities to gun bases and PDF aircraft hangers. 6 Moons: Scilla Prime, Scilla Secundus, Scilla Tricus, Scilla Quadcus, Scilla Pentcus, Scilla Hexcus Scilla Prime, Chapter’s Fortress Monastery Scilla Secundus, Tricus, Quadcus, Pentcus, and Hexcus, Gun bases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mordray Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 why do the islands have to be 'unnatural' why not instead simply create a 'plausible' excuse for their existence. for example in DP9's heavy gear universe on the world of Terra Nova a class of ships known as land ships exist. These ships make use of Terra Nova's stronger then normal magnetic field and with some techno-wizardry are able to create ships that levitate a few feet/yards (honestly I don't remember) off the ground and essentially sail across the land, especailly the vast desert region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kil78 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 three possible explanations for floating islands 1 the warp, this I think can easilly be discarded, as no sane person would want to live on them/the marines would have done something about then by now 2. man made, two ways to go here. a. they could be large chunks of rock fitted with gravometric engines from the dark age of technology, irriaplaceable and unreproduceable. b. the islands started off as ships large ships as time went on the amagimation of people building on them, and bringing up dirt and what not for farming have turned them into the island shape they are to day. some could use the aformentioned gravometric engines, or some could use giant gas bags like durigibles. 3. natural through some quirk of nature these islands float. it could be giant pockets of lifting gas, or some naturally occuring element found on this world. see final fantasy 12 for some examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 One thing about the floating islands - the Mechanicus. If those islands are floating in the sky then the AdMech are going to turn up in force, salivating engine oil at the thought of finding out how they work and if they are powered by STC designs. That kind of technology sounds like the very same that could have powered the Sky Fortress used by Dorn in the Siege of Terra. The AdMech would certainly want to recreate that if possible. So why aren't they there? Despite the fact that Anti-grav technology is seen as a 'black' technology among the AdMech, there are several AdMech factions that study it and (quietly) look to further it. Perhaps your Chapter could be linked to one of these factions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Again, thank you all. I actually think it's a little funny how it's the floating islands that gather the most attention. I've played some of Final Fantasy 12, but unfortunately, never got an reason for why the city floats. I just assumed it had to do something with the innumerable moogle's running around doing cute things. Kil, once again your ideas are good, the first doesn't work because people do live on them. Of the next two regarding man made, both seem interesting and well work looking into and expanding on, especially since it would open up a AM presence on the world. Combined with the lifting gas I think it would work out the best. Once again, GMT, brilliance. I can incorporate the AM well now. The one thing I wanted to get some comments on were the Magos who crafted the helms and whether this is a good idea or not and how you would change it. So, keep the comments coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearBoxClock Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 So their captains are wearing helmets that make them look like Cthulu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 However sill the question, I honestly say no, but you might think otherwise. http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1820067_99060212086_DELokhirMain_445x319.jpg Lokhir Fellheart's helmet is what I intend to use as the Captain's helmets. http://www.summeroflovecraft.com/images/cthulhu-6.jpg It doesn't really remind me all that much of Cthulhu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashur Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 The Ghoul Stars are actually full of Orks if this is anything to go by. I thought the ghoul stars where located outside the Empire. My own SW lost chapter is located there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 To be fair, it is. It's located past the Maelstrom and there is only one Imperial world on that map past the Maelstrom. But, no one tells Pirates where to go. Especially genetically engineered, double hearted, triple lunged, power armor wearing, space marine Pirates. And I'm sure that there are other Chapters just constantly pushing the line against other powers gaining territory for the Imperium. The Black Templars come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 The first post has since been edited, though still needs work, please comment. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matches Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 cant be long, but i just wanted to mention that now that you have re-arranged your first post, it no longer makes much sense, at least the new origins section. For example, you've mentioned that the silver skulls cadre found it hard to earn the respect of the nobles. What nobles? Where did they come from? After this you talk about Charybdis as if you've already spoken about it. You havent. That comes after the origins. Basically it just need a little rearranging for it to make sense. Nothing wrong with the content though, I do like these guys. Sorry if that came over a little harsh =] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Thanks for your input, I'll go back and edit it again when I get the chance, still knee deep in exams :D . Keep the comments coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 However out of the blue, I thought I'd ask for your opinion on one of the Captains. To be more specific, I'd like to ask your opinion on the Reformed Second Company Leader. First off on title, The two I'm between are: Commodore and Commondaunt. Any input or a preference would be welcome to here. Second, his name. To say like I've said before, I want him to be like Hayden Christensen in Episode III, proud and arrogant. But, most of all I want him to embody the one scene where he is before the council and where they award him a seat on the council but not the title of Master. Hence, the Commodore or Commondaunt or whatever title would be insulted and would take it as an insult from Barbarossa. If this sounds something like a pre-heresy Lucius to you then I hit the nail on the head with my description. Such, as for his name, I have a list of names on the first page, but of those, these are the ones I think embody the character the most: Astos Esther Julien Luciel Narrick Palom Like Lucius, I want this character to be skilled and venerable, yet childish. I think someone has said before that he feels that the Second is being hunted by the *Chapter*. The way I want this to be seen is that Barbarossa is being hunted by this individual. This is a personal feud. Looking at it, if there was past conflict it could be built upon even more. But, I'll see where this goes. And, if anyone has any ideas for this fellow, history, or whatnot, please post it, I'd love to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 about that helm you plan on using... i think you should do some work to it... make it look more humany...and spacemarine ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Well, it's something to look into when I actually get around to converting the figure. Until now, it's just the idea for what I want. Input on the character chasing Barbarossa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kil78 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 you have set your self up a hard task. what is the motivation for chasing barbarossa? do they hate him? If so why did they let him go? if they like him why did they promote this guy who does hate/want to hunt him down? whats more do they view B. as the ligitimate captian of the second? if they do why remake the second at all? you have to figure out barbarossa's relationship to the chapter before you can figure out the motives of the guy following him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 you have set your self up a hard task. what is the motivation for chasing barbarossa? do they hate him? If so why did they let him go? if they like him why did they promote this guy who does hate/want to hunt him down? whats more do they view B. as the ligitimate captian of the second? if they do why remake the second at all? you have to figure out barbarossa's relationship to the chapter before you can figure out the motives of the guy following him. Thank you Kil, all wonderful questions and all will help with the construction of the Chapter and characters. The motivation, I think, has been said a couple times. The head of the Reformed Second wants the helm so that he may have the title Captain and erase the dishonor of having another title. Childish, yes, but this is the feeling I'm going for. The Chapter's feelings towards Barbarossa would be mixed, I think. Barbarossa was a Captain and as such, would probably be very respected. However, the marines under his command have been mutated, because of this and the Chapter's hatred of mutants, I'd think that some members would dislike the presence of 'tainted' Marines. Barbarossa himself probably hates himself for letting his Company be corrupt and as such, leads them into the Ghoul Stars to die. Sort of like a twist on the Iron Cage with the marines going there without the desire to come out stronger, but to die in penitence. The feeling I want to get across is that Barbarossa and his Second are a lost cause. They're gone and aren't coming back, being neck deep in Orks will do that to you. So, reforming the Second puts the Chapter up to strength since a tenth is missing, so with the formation of a new Company comes a new Captain. But since the Captain is ceremoniously marked by the golden kraken helm in the Chapter, the reformed Second doesn't have a 'Captain', but a leader with the same say and power with a different title. Promotion in the Astartes has always seemed to be marked by the honor and merit of the individual in question. Like Lucius, I want this fellow to be one of the best in the Chapter with a superiority complex. And since the individual has a superiority complex, being in the position of Captain without the title is like being spat on. So he hates Barbarossa for dishonoring him for not giving up the helm to mark him as Captain. Barbarossa is not the legitimate Captain of the Second Company, he still holds the title and helmet, but he's on a death oath. He's a walking corpse stripped of all honor save his own pride as former Captain. Just to make it an even bigger conflict, I imagine Barbarossa has not been informed about a reformed Second Company and still views himself as the only Second Company Captain. Clear anything up, create more questions? Anything and everything is valuable input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kil78 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 ok couple of more questions how long has it been since barbs self imposed exile. Is the same guy the chapter master? when they let him go, was it like " leave if we see you again you die, but because of your service we will let you go this once" or more like " hey I am going to go kill orks, see you later." is the new comadore, the first "captian" of the reformed second, if not what did the others think? In his heart of hearts, is he chasing down barbossa for the hat, or to eliminate the stain on the chapters honor? finally, if chaos offeredd him the helm would he take it, what is more important to him his personal honor, or his duty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 ok couple of more questions how long has it been since barbs self imposed exile. Is the same guy the chapter master? when they let him go, was it like " leave if we see you again you die, but because of your service we will let you go this once" or more like " hey I am going to go kill orks, see you later." is the new comadore, the first "captian" of the reformed second, if not what did the others think? In his heart of hearts, is he chasing down barbossa for the hat, or to eliminate the stain on the chapters honor? finally, if chaos offeredd him the helm would he take it, what is more important to him his personal honor, or his duty? I'd think that Barbarossa has been on his penitence crusade for about one or two centuries, but this is due to edit in the final version. I haven't even decided on the Chapter Master's name, so I don't know the answer to that. When Barbarossa was released he was face to face with Howl and no one else. I wanted Howl and Barbarossa to have a close relationship and Howl, reluctantly allows Barbarossa to go and die. Howl wanted Barbarossa to stay and let the matter be sorted out by the other Captains. But Howl, being Master of the Fleet, gives Barbarossa a new Strike Cruiser and Barbarossa flies into the Warp. It was more or less a "If this is your choice, so be it" deal. The hat. I think removing the stain is more or less a bonus, but it's his honor he wants repaired, not the Chapter's. Most definitely. With lots of inner conflict, but this is a fellow who thinks that he's the bee's knees. This last question, is this an idea you had, or something just to see how vain and conceded the man is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kil78 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 i just notice that everyone you had picked as an example had either fallen to chaos or the darkside. ok here is a rough time-line barbarossa flies into the warp, and gets stuck barabrossa returns all mutated, and howl lets him go howl is killed, in some rear guard action, some think it may be pennance for letting barbarossa go new chapter master, possibly one of barbossas rivals, thinks howl made a mistake by not executing barbossa and begins to rebuild the second co. ___________ named as new head of second company, not named captian, this is for two reasons, one no helm, two it turns him into a spear aimed at the heart of barbossa, chapter masters are not stupid, he know what this guy is, and wants to use his vanity/pride. to get barbossa at some point __________ is going to fall to chaos, because well, that is the direction I see him going in as written now. think of sicarus with out the humility. that is this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 The time line makes sense, the one question I have with your idea so far is about Howl. You feel that he should be killed before the new Chapter Master is made? The idea of mutiny here is enthralling. How do you see the new head of Second falling? I'd rather avoid Chaos corruption striking twice. With all your ideas and help with the character, do you have input on the title or name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kil78 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 the mutiany angle is kind of neat. basically I see it like this howl lets barbarossa go it is known that howl has mixed feelings about this howl falls in a nothing action, they say he let it happen because of his guilt over barbossa, of course the person saying it is the new chapter master........ as for a name Astos nerrik sounds good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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