lucifer light bearer Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 So the bottom line is I want to use some Vanguard with jump packs in my 2000 point army. I know they're too expensive, but I just like the look of them. any ideas as to how to make this work for me. just try to keep the unit under 275pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 How many Vanguard are you looking for five, ten or somewhere in between? Five Vangard all with Power Weapons and Packs = 235 Points Seven Vanguard with three extra Power Weapons (so Four in Total with the Sgt) + JP = 280 Points Assault Terminators are propably better value, athough Jump Packs do give Vanguard good movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Jump Pack Vanguard are not morth taking unless you are making full use of Heroic Intervention, and for that you really want to have a Locator Beacon about the place somewhere. The risk of scatter acidents otherwise (even just being out of assault range) is too grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer light bearer Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 I don't want to argue the point of if they're worth taking. I know they aren't but I want them anyway. as for the number of models in the unit I'm open to whatever. I just want opinions on how to make them less bad. This sounds meaner then I meant it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I don't want to argue the point of if they're worth taking. I know they aren't but I want them anyway. as for the number of models in the unit I'm open to whatever. I just want opinions on how to make them less bad. If you have decided you want to use them, I will not try and stop you! :P What is the rest of your 2000 points? Do you have several Locator Beacons on either Drop Pods or Scout Bikes? Is this an all comers list or do you know your enemy? Are you actually planning to hold them in reserve so you can use Heroic Intervention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer light bearer Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 I've got a lot of fire support, and yes I've got 2 drop pods if I want. It is mostly an all comers list but with a focus on chaos marines. the 1st 1000pts looks like this, and the rest is flexible. 1 librarian 10 tac marines, power fist, plasma gun, plasma cannon 10 tac marines, power fist, plasma gun, plasma cannon 1 dreadnought twin lascannon, heavy flamer. 5 termies TH/SS 1 predator autocannon, 2 lascannons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I personally favor a 10 man vanguard squad with just the relic blade. I know that's 340 points so a little over your 275 point 'budget' and yes all that is essentially is a glorified assault squad, but it does kick out 39 attacks on the charge. If you are considering using them, then can I suggest that you use Tigurius as your librarian. He would still fill the same sort of roll in your list but with the ability to re-roll those reserve rolls you will find the vanguard far more effective. If you were to do that then how does this sound? Sergeant with Relic Blade (The model just looks too good not to use) Veteran with Pair of Lightning Claws 3 Veterans That comes to 250 points on it's own Random Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 My thoughts on using vanguard: 1 - If you are going to use jump packs, make sure you are making use of heroic intervention. 2 - If you are going to make use of heroic intervention, make sure you have a locator beacon. 3 - If you are going to be hurling vanguard into combat, make sure you at least have an ablative wound or two, so don't give them all equipment to make sure you have a few guys to die first. OR 1 - If you are not going to use jump packs, make sure to put them in a situation where you can assault immediately with them. This situation is probably called a land raider. On the flip side, you can include more guys in this squad because they are cheaper without the jump packs... but you do need a land raider. 2 - You don't need a locator beacon here, but what you do need is a few more ablative wounds. Also, always throw in a power fist no matter what, just in case you run into a dreadnought or wraithlord, given how important the squad is. When I've seen them effectively used, it's always been in one of those two ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissah Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I use them with Shrike and infiltrate them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer light bearer Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Tigurius sounds like a great idea, but I just don't like to use special HQ's I just don't feel right about taking Tigurius, painting him purple and calling him Joe. taking a 10 man unit and not giving them extra weapons is a new idea, against orks, eldar, tau, or guard, they'd clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Veritas Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Also, remember that Vanguards are the only unit in the Marine list that can take Melta Bombs for the entire squad. Nothing like having an extra tool in your kit to smoke tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTAG Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 10 Man Vanguards with CCW/BP coming out of a Land Raider and being led by a Chaplain is particularly devastating. Also, if you're going to use Vanguard, using Shrike is a good idea. Being able to run after you land and then assault gives you a little more protection against "Whoops, scattered too far" and can help if your opponent falls back from Locator Beacon'd Drop Pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer light bearer Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 if you have a character in the unit they can't use heroic intervention. also I've really set on wanting the jump pack, and using plain ordinary no special character codex marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer light bearer Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 my very basic plan was something like this. two drop pods containing a dreadnought and a tactical squad come down on the enemies flank on turn one. following the enemies counter attack the vanguard added by the pods locator beacons use heroic intervention to mop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 You want a Locator Beacon on at least one of those pods. Remember that to be dropping 2 Pods on the first turn, you need to have 3 or 4 pods total, as only half (rounding up) of your pods deploy on the first turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTAG Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 if you have a character in the unit they can't use heroic intervention. also I've really set on wanting the jump pack, and using plain ordinary no special character codex marines. I didn't mean Shrike in the unit, just in the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain_quint Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I have a list that includes the Vanguard with Shrike and a Chaplain. 5 vanguard all PW and JP and if points allow 1 relic blade Chaplain with JP Shrike thats 28 power weapon attack of any sort with the reroll to hit Infiltrate... fleet... smash... 10 man assaultsquad with pair of LC comes up to support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer light bearer Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 2 units of 5 vanguard 2 extra power weapons, is only 205pts each for a total of 410pts. if they're both held in reserve they should be able to use the pods locator beacons to counter attack anything that threatens them. good plan or no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Veritas Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 It really does depend on what you're facing. That many power weapons is a waste against Orks, but a godsend vs Marines, CSM and Necrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 So the bottom line is I want to use some Vanguard with jump packs in my 2000 point army. I know they're too expensive, but I just like the look of them. any ideas as to how to make this work for me. just try to keep the unit under 275pts. use them as counts as Assault marines :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharik Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I have been using a 5 model unit of vanguard with relic blade + 2 PW quite effectivly in my 2000 points drop pod army. 3 of my 5 pods have locator beacons. This allows me to effectivly counter charge with heroic intervention or assault shooty units (whom i ofc landed just next too :unsure: ) but for anything without lots of locator beacons i would suggest Assault marines or assault terminators. I simply use the vanguard because i can have them in CC a turn faster than jump marines and dispacthing your opponents units fast is essencial in a drop pod army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 10 Man Vanguards with CCW/BP coming out of a Land Raider and being led by a Chaplain is particularly devastating. Also, if you're going to use Vanguard, using Shrike is a good idea. Being able to run after you land and then assault gives you a little more protection against "Whoops, scattered too far" and can help if your opponent falls back from Locator Beacon'd Drop Pods. You can infiltrate 18" from the enemy, fly 12" and assault with your Vanguard if you take Shrike. Seriously, you only need like an inch or so on a D6 fleet to get all your guys in place for some turn #1 face-breaking. That's always good stuff right there. In fact, that's probably the only time I'll take a larger unit of Vanguard. 8 max though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I use them with Shrike and infiltrate them <_< Probably the most effective use of jump-pack equipped Vanguard. I have a list that includes the Vanguard with Shrike and a Chaplain. 5 vanguard all PW and JP and if points allow 1 relic blade Chaplain with JP Shrike thats 28 power weapon attack of any sort with the reroll to hit Infiltrate... fleet... smash... 10 man assaultsquad with pair of LC comes up to support Unfortunately, you cannot do this: While Shrike can Infiltrate and the unit he joins can infiltrate - add another character without Shrike's special ability and the whole unit cannot infiltrate any more - including Shrike. Shrike cannot join two units at once - so cannot join the other unit and the Chaplain at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedric Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Unfortunately, you cannot do this: While Shrike can Infiltrate and the unit he joins can infiltrate - add another character without Shrike's special ability and the whole unit cannot infiltrate any more - including Shrike. Shrike cannot join two units at once - so cannot join the other unit and the Chaplain at the same time. Sure you can. While the IC's remain joined in the Vanguard squad, it counts as a single squad. It's not a Vanguard squad with two separate IC squads attached. THe IC's become part of the Vanguards. As a single squad, it benefits from Shrike's special rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 While the IC's remain joined in the Vanguard squad, it counts as a single squad. It's not a Vanguard squad with two separate IC squads attached. THe IC's become part of the Vanguards. As a single squad, it benefits from Shrike's special rule. Except the Chaplain is still considered an IC - even when joined to another unit. As such, he is bound by the 'Special Rules' limitations outlined in the section about IC's joining other units. So if you join the Chaplain to the unit as well, Shrike and the squad lose the ability to infiltrate. Shrike's special rules allow him to confer the ability only to the unit he joins and he can only join a single unit at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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