[Daemon review] HQ.

[Captain Malachi]

He also has a decent time vs. vehicles, since he rends on a 4+.

Not against vehicles, he still needs a 6 to rend them.

[Captain Malachi]

Sorry for the double post, but I edited the Khorne heralds section slightly so that you guys might agree with it. (told you I was coming back to it :D)

 

Herald of Khorne:

On foot: This guy is a buff character, stick him in a unit of bloodletters and watch them carve their way through just about any unit they can catch. In this incarnation, the best upgrades to choose are blessing of the blood god and unholy might, this gives you the ability to pass additional wounds caused by psykers to your herald while the unholy might makes your attacks more powerful. As said, the best way to use this guy is to simply point him and his unit in the direction of the enemy. The problem is his slow speed, a fast opponent will be able to avoid your unit.

 

On a juggernaut: Put him in a unit of bloodcrushers and you have partially mitigated the bloodcrushers main weakness, dreadnaughts and other walkers. With unholy might, blessing of the blood god and fury of Khorne you have a better chance to take out a dread that attacks you, which your unit would otherwise have serious problems with. Again, his main downside is speed as well as a high cost.

 

On a chariot: Put your bloodletting fiend on a chariot and you have a cheap little mini daemon prince. He loses the independent character rule, but gains a whole lot of wounds and some other nifty little bonuses. With blessing of the blood god and unholy might you have a solid unit for hitting the enemy hard. However, he is still slow, and without the independent character rule he’s vulnerable to getting shot up on his way to the enemy. Despite this, this load out is still considered the best option for heralds of Khorne.

 

I only really changed a few words, but hopefully it'll be enough.

[minigun762]

I think its fine, fairly simple Skulltaker = badass

[djkest]

I think the thing with rending is, you aren't guarenteed a single 6 or you might get 2. Suffice it to say, it's not something you can COUNT on. It's a risk too, as a 105 point drednaught could cause serious pause to your 300+ points of bloodcrushers and skulltaker.

 

In short- Skulltaker great against all infantry (except TH/SS termies), but especially against expensive and heavily armored dudes and multi-wound models. OK against light vehicles, but not walkers or land raiders. He's a surgical scalpel, don't use him to cut down a tree.

[Captain Malachi]

You guys realise that bit I wrote up was for the generic herald right? Not Skulltaker? It's just you all seem to think it was for Skulltaker. As for the getting the 6 to rend, that's why I said partially, the main reason to have him in a unit of juggers is so you get an uber-unit that will kill anything other than dreads it comes across, as well as having a higher than normal chance against those dreads.

[minigun762]

You guys realise that bit I wrote up was for the generic herald right? Not Skulltaker?

 

Yeah but lets face it, they're kind of the same.

The Skulltaker is just a better Herald with superior Rending powers for the most part. Tactically you're going to use him the same as you would with a normal Khorne Herald, just maybe more aggressively since he's better.

[Captain Malachi]

Yeah that's true, I was just making sure. I imagine Skulltakers section will pretty much amount to "see herald of Khorne" with a few notes on his special abilities.

[minigun762]

Yeah that's true, I was just making sure. I imagine Skulltakers section will pretty much amount to "see herald of Khorne" with a few notes on his special abilities.

 

Same as with the Blue Scribes, they're not much different.

 

Masque requires a little more attention, mostly to say "don't take her"

 

Epid is the only complicated one because of Tally and thats an army building tactic

[Captain Malachi]

Right, I've changed the herald of Khornes section, since I've had time to think.

 

Herald of Khorne:

On foot: This guy is a buff character, stick him in a unit of bloodletters and watch them carve their way through just about any unit they can catch. In this incarnation, the best upgrades to choose are blessing of the blood god and unholy might, this gives you the ability to pass additional wounds caused by psykers to your herald while the unholy might makes your attacks more powerful. As said, the best way to use this guy is to simply point him and his unit in the direction of the enemy. The problem is his slow speed, a fast opponent will be able to avoid your unit.

 

On a juggernaut: Like the one on foot, this guy is a buff character, you can use him to make a unit of bloodcrushers stronger, not a lot more to it than that.

 

On a chariot: Put your bloodletting fiend on a chariot and you have a cheap little mini daemon prince. He loses the independent character rule, but gains a whole lot of wounds and some other nifty little bonuses. With blessing of the blood god and unholy might you have a solid unit for hitting the enemy hard. However, he is still slow, and without the independent character rule he’s vulnerable to getting shot up on his way to the enemy. Despite this, this load out is still considered the best option for heralds of Khorne.

[Raptor1313]

Looks good to me, Mal.

[Vassakov]

Skulltaker looks good. So, Bluescribes?

 

I'll cover the negatives first. He isn't on a Chariot.

 

 

That about does it. Roughly speaking, he's about 50 points cheaper than the equivilantly geared 'nilla Herald, then gets Aura of Decay (not useful, as if they're in combat that's it) and Pavane (can be fun.) He has Legion and Master, so can get off two abilities and can use the same one twice. His special rule "Watch This!" adds an air of unpridicability about him, as he could use the same attack twice or a different one. However, with the sheer range of attacks available he has one for every occasion and so this is not necessarily a big deal. You have to declare the target and the second attack before rolling, but this will often be only a minor issue - Use the most useful one first, then a less brilliant one and hope the dice go your way (Example: Shooting at Ork Boyz @ ~15" - first use Gaze, then declare Warpfire)

 

Tactically, he can be great fun with Flamers as they're all jump infantry. A small 3 Daemon squad backed up by Bluescribes comes to 245 pts and could potentially bunch up a unit with Pavane then hit it with 4 Breaths - or just 5 Breaths. Nasty.

[Raptor1313]

I'd say that the other potential negative that the Scribes have is their inherent randomness.

 

they're really just a swiss army knife that may or may not whip out the right tools for the time.

 

You get around that by picking out what you want them to do more, and declaring it. Need to shoot infantry? Gaze, then Warpfire. Need that vehicle dead? Bolt, then maybe double-tap it with bolt, or pick a new target.

 

Honestly, if I weren't enamored by Greater Daemons, I'd give the Bluescribes a good look. They do want either a Horror or Flamer unit to hang out with, as otherwise they're an expensive one-shot suicide drop.

[Captain Malachi]

Skulltaker looks good. So, Bluescribes?

It. Wasn't. Skulltaker. *facepalms*

 

Anyway, only problem I really have with the blue scribes is their speed issues. They pay (in a sense) for a speed boost but can't really use it. I wouldn't say putting them with a unit of flamers was a good idea personally, they're too expensive for suicide duty. Which only leaves horrors, no speed boost there.

 

I know it's not a big problem but it does bug me. The randomness I don't care too much about 'cos you can just make sure you only fry one target and pick powers that work well for it.

 

Can't believe we're almost done with the HQ section :lol:

[minigun762]

Can't believe we're almost done with the HQ section :P

 

About freaking time, 10 pages!

 

Atleast the other sections will go alot faster.

 

That is until we get to Daemon Princes... that will be a huge topic.

[Captain Malachi]

That is until we get to Daemon Princes... that will be a huge topic.

Don't remind me.......... :yes:

[Raptor1313]

Yeah, the Scribes do give up a speed boost because they really need to hang with Horrors.

 

As for the 10 pages of HQ?

There are four 'generic' greater daemons, four 'generic' heralds, three named Greater Daemons, and four named Heralds.

 

So, the daemons have 15 HQ choices, eight of which have options to evaluate. There are 14 other choices in the codex, period (4 Elite, 4 Troops, 4 Fast Attack, 2 Heavy Support). So, theoretically, we've reviewed over 50% of the codex entries by now....

[Captain Malachi]

Well actually there's 5 troops, 2 more upgrade characters, and the prince will probably count as 5.

[Raptor1313]

Bleh.

 

Details.

 

I figure the upgrade characters fold into their respective units, and there are a total of what, 2 of those? Karanak for the Flesh Hounds, and Changeling for the Horrors. Did forget there are 5 troops; I just kind of forget Nurglings since they can't score. Nurglings exist solely to gum up the works.

 

The prince is going to be a fairly epic discussion. I think that the heavy support section really will be an organic debate of Soul Grinder vs. Daemon Prince after a listing of pros/cons of both.

[Captain Malachi]

We should probably try to limit what we say in the princes entry, but we'll discuss that nearer the time.

 

For now, here's Skulltakers actual entry.

 

The Skulltaker:

For all intents and purposes, he’s nothing more that a better herald of Khorne. He even has the same mount options. So for general strategy just see the heralds entry.

 

He does have a pretty neat special rule though, it’s called “Skulls for the Skull Throne” and basically doubles his badassery. Rending on a 4+ (note that this does not work against vehicles) and inflicting instant death means he basically murders any multiple wound model he fights, provided they aren’t immune to instant death. Although, even then he’ll still likely win. He’s a little pricy but we like him. Something to note though is that he’s too much of a bullet magnet to risk on a chariot, best bet is to put him on a juggernaut and in a unit of bloodcrushers.

[Vassakov]

My logic with the scribes in a Flamers unit is that they provide the enemy with a real headache - if they aren't stopped, they will quite happily rampage down the line. On the other hand, if the rest of your army drops Bloodletters/Crushers and maybe a Prince (or Fateweaver, within 6" :) ) chances are that Bluescribes and chums will either soak up a lot of fire or most will survive.

[minigun762]

basically doubles his badassery.

 

Ha! Badassery, I like that phrase.

 

But yeah, thats about it, he's a super Herald.

[Captain Malachi]

The thing about sticking the scribes with a unit of flamers is that at most you get two more breath attacks, and for just over half the price you can simply take another two flamers, if you want the utility you can take bolt and still be paying less for the whole unit. Having pavane is nice but it's the only thing they bring to the unit and there are other ways to get pavane in the army. Not to mention it's a fairly unreliable power in the first place.

[Captain Malachi]

The Blue Scribes:

These guys are pretty good in that they cost a lot less than an equivalent generic herald, and gain a couple of nifty tricks. First up, they have pavane of Slaanesh, pretty useful in some cases. They also have aura of decay, which they have solely to allow you to try and get some revenge if they get assaulted, it’s basically useless. Other than that they have all the abilities a normal herald can get.

 

They count as jump infantry, but the only units they can join with the same speed are flamers. Their best friends are horrors, so the speed boost is pretty irrelevant. Their other ability is “watch this!”. Essentially, it means that half the time you’ll use the same power twice in a turn. You can mitigate the downside to this by simply using powers that compliment each other, so that it doesn’t really matter if you get the same one twice. However, always use the better one first.

How's that?

[Raptor1313]

I think you've pretty much got the Scribes down. I like them for the versatility, but I'd only ever field them in a decently-sized unit of Horrors.

 

Flamers? Speed, yes. I seldom see a unit of more than 5 flamers, and I can get a couple more flamers and Bolt of Tzeentch for what I pay for the Blue Scribes. I also won't be losing a kind of expensive, multi-role unit.

 

Let's all be honest about Flamers of Tzeentch. Any enemy with some guns is going to do their level best to utterly annihilate Flamers. After seeing one volley of Breath of Chaos, the enemy WILL prioritize flamers, and the flamers WILL die, because T4 with a 4+ is NOT durable. And, they'll probably ice the Blue Scribes just after that, or simply assault them. Blue Scribes are a pushover in assault.

 

If you want flamers, bring flamers. Bring the Scribes as a swiss army knife. They've got all the bells and whistles, and they're bound to do something useful. They just take a little thought to get the most out of their 'Hey y'all, watch this!" ability.

[minigun762]

So is it just the Tallyman left? I can't remember anyone else.

If so, his will actually be fairly easy. Just like Fateweaver and to a lesser extent the Masque, if you want to use the Tallyman, you are required to build your army around him. Its hard to say much more about him because so much of the important stuff is actually list building rather then the Tallyman himself.