minigun762 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'd have to agree with ==him==. I look at it this way, if I saw a group of Bloodcrushers with a Herald attached, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to throw a Dreadnought/Defiler into them. I figure that I'll probably kill more of them or atleast keep them away from my other units that they could beat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1887503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Well, no insta-gibbing with the S10, but I would HAPPILY still throw something like an Ironclad into them. It's about the only thing in the game that will slow them appreciably. Same with a Soul Grinder. AV13 is a beast to tackle in hand-to-hand, and once we're at that point? You HAVE to rend, and even then you won't get all your attacks in. I'd also worry about the Defilers that take all CC arms and the battlecannon. Sure, it's AV12, but that many attacks and he can start dropping bloodcrushers with speed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1887513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 So are we ready for the next herald? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1887996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Clearly I'm not going to convince any of you, so yeah I guess we are :wallbash: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1887999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
==Me== Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 What is there to convince us of? I don't think we missed anything with the Kherald, so let's bring on the next one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1888544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Here's an easy one to do.... Nurgle Herald He's a plaguebearer that has an extra attack, extra wound, and slightly higher initiative. He's still as slow as the average plaguebearer. He can take a Palanquin of nurgle, but that only gets him an extra attack and wound. He can take some melee upgrades, but his low WS and I mean that Noxious Touch, Unholy Might, and Breath of Chaos are unlikely to be of much use. There really isn't a good use for these guys. If you want to take a Nurgle herald, cough up another 60 points and buy Epedemius and go for that list. There are MUCH better ways to spend 1/2 of an HQ slot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1888703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM THE AWESOME Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Nurgle Herald: Don't take him. Period. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1888707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I think we're being a bit blunt here. Ok, perhaps not. It is a bit pointless really. Something like: Like all Heralds, Nurgle Heralds function as an above average version of their own troops, but with more options. Unfortunately for the Nurgle Herald, he is entirely lacking in the CC Killyness of a Khorne Herald, the Speed of a Slanneshii Herald or the shooting versitility of the Tzeentch Herald. He's still slow, tough and incapable of killing anything in any quantity, and one would be better advised to take 3 Plaugebearers instead. Worth mentioning is Epidermis, Tallyman of Nurgle. He suffers from all of the disadvantages of the above, but has a killer trick - the Tally of Nurgle. Rack up enough Kills, and suddenly your Plaguebearers will chomp through most things in CC, and gain extra resiliance to boot. He remains however only really of any use in a Mono Nurgle list of Plaguebearers, Nurglings and 3 Nurgle Daemon Princes, for the early kill racking up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1888818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I wouldn't do a review of Epedemius (and that much detail on Epi builds) in the Nurgle Herald's entry, but I would just direct the reader to Epedemius, as Epe is actually worth something. Albeit, Epi's job is to sit in the back and avoid being harmed, but it's a job nonetheless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1889180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Well we mentioned Skulltaker in the Khorne Herald didn't we? Or are we going to keep all named guys seperate? That would probably be better. As for the Nurgle Herald, trying to play Devil's advocate here but wouldn't be be useful functioning as a Champion like character in a Plaguebearer squad? Give him Noxious Touch and/or Unholy Might and have him help protect a squad thats camping an objective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1889224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 But the point still remains - a Nurgle Herald does not offer anything significant for the price tag. I mean, for the build you suggested you could get almost get a barebones Daemon Prince - supieor in every way. Also, Plaguebearers shouldn't really vbe in CC as is, a a Herald is not going to unduly worry anything. Hell, in CC a Tzeentch Herald with Soul Devourer is almost a better bet - at least he ignores saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1889228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 But the point still remains - a Nurgle Herald does not offer anything significant for the price tag. I mean, for the build you suggested you could get almost get a barebones Daemon Prince - supieor in every way. Also, Plaguebearers shouldn't really vbe in CC as is, a a Herald is not going to unduly worry anything. Hell, in CC a Tzeentch Herald with Soul Devourer is almost a better bet - at least he ignores saves. Very true, but I'm trying hard to play devil's advocate for the sake of arguement. Don't want our whole section to be summed up by I AM THE AWESOME's very concise and true words. Nurgle Herald:Don't take him. Period. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1889445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Very true, but I'm trying hard to play devil's advocate for the sake of arguement. Don't want our whole section to be summed up by I AM THE AWESOME's very concise and true words. Aye, and whilst I agree 100%, I feel that the purpose of this review is to provide objective and clear views arrived at by disscussion and concenus on the units in the Codex. If not one person on the board can actaully find a good use for a Nurgle Herald, then I think that should be made clear in the review. I don't think we should try to "talk up" something that to be quite honest, is a complete joke. That is more a reflection on GW's playtesting ability than our critique. I'm sorry if this post comes across as me shooting you down in flames, cause I'm glad we've had the discussion on it, and I'm glad you've made the effort to play devils advocate. But we can't find a good use for it, so that's what should go in the review at the end of the day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1889465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I'm sorry if this post comes across as me shooting you down in flames, cause I'm glad we've had the discussion on it, and I'm glad you've made the effort to play devils advocate. But we can't find a good use for it, so that's what should go in the review at the end of the day. Oh no, nothing negative came across, was more just clarifying that I don't think he's really useful either. I'd hate to be called a Nurgle Herald sympathizer :rolleyes: So are we agreed that the Nurgle Herald offers very little to the army and is widely regarded as a "bad buy" for a competitive army list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1889507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
djkest Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Okay, bear with me for a second here. Herald of Nurgle could be useful. He's more successful in combat than a plagebearer, to be sure. He's got a higher initiative, and higher weapon skill. Once the tally is up, he could be more threatening in CC. Also, he's a way to allocate wounds for your squad, without giving them a huge deepstriking template. With just noxious touch and a palanquin (doesn't lose IC status), he will kill much better than a plaguebearer, and add flavor to the unit. Demons being fearless, they have to take 5+ saves if they lose in combat. This guy could be there to help even up the odds. Cloud of flies could be decent for him, if a MC comes in to whipe out your PB. Just an idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1889540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Okay, bear with me for a second here. Herald of Nurgle could be useful. He's more successful in combat than a plagebearer, to be sure. He's got a higher initiative, and higher weapon skill. Once the tally is up, he could be more threatening in CC. Also, he's a way to allocate wounds for your squad, without giving them a huge deepstriking template. With just noxious touch and a palanquin (doesn't lose IC status), he will kill much better than a plaguebearer, and add flavor to the unit. Demons being fearless, they have to take 5+ saves if they lose in combat. This guy could be there to help even up the odds. Cloud of flies could be decent for him, if a MC comes in to whipe out your PB. Just an idea. I'm sticking to my guns here. The point is not "What can a Nurgle Herald do ?" But "what can a Nurgle Herald do that cannot be achieved by another unit?" Yes, a Nurgle Herald has it's uses - but for the sort of build you are suggesting you could get 5/6 Plaguebearers. Or possibly straying towards Daemon Prince territory. It's jsut not worth it. Also, yes a Herald does add some CC power, but that doesn't make them a particularly viable assault unit. As has been said, if you want to add a Nurgle Herald, go for Epidermis and instead of 3 extra, tricked out Heralds, get 2 Daemon Princes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1889578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The Nurgle Herald adds SOME CC power, but not nearly enough to swing the contest. The best he'll do is throw four WS4, I3 attacks that wound on a 2+, so he'll probably slap two wounds onto the enemy. At that point you'd get 3-4 plaguebearers that would do the EXACT SAME THING for cheaper. Get Epedemius or don't take a nurgle herald. The ONLY thing he might do better is kill vehicles since he can go up to S5, but he's still slow and has to MAKE it to said vehicle. Same problems as using Breath of Chaos (better platforms available) and really the only other thing that sets him apart from the average plaguebearer. Hell, unholy might + palanquin (to get up to three S5 attacks) runs you 75pts, and for twice that, you get a Great Unclean one who's more durable and going to do a LOT more to the vehicle. The biggest problem plaguebearer units face is getting tank-shocked off an objective, and Mr. Herald won't help. If you want to put CC power near your Plaguebearers, just throw them and a Great Unclean One on an objective, and the rest of your army goes towards your opponent. If you REALLY want to take a Nurgle-pure force and want extra CC power, take Beasts of Nurgle. We'll cover THAT in the Beasts of Nurgle section, but just compare the 2-3 beasts you can get for a tricked-out Nurgle Herald's cost? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1889931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 As Raptor and others have said, Nurgle heralds are awful. However, I'd like to put in something useful......... PS- sorry for lack of input, been unable to get on a computer the last couple of days, but have no fear, I'm back and raring to go. (Lucky you :)) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1890507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
==Me== Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I would much prefer this review to be a guide to players and definitely not GW-style "buy this, it's awesome, trust us". Not every unit is going to be great, Nurgle Heralds suck and we should tell it like it is. Anything less does our readers injustice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1890941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I would much prefer this review to be a guide to players and definitely not GW-style "buy this, it's awesome, trust us". Not every unit is going to be great, Nurgle Heralds suck and we should tell it like it is. Anything less does our readers injustice. Seconded, as I've been saying. It has no real redeeming features, let's just leave it and move on to something that does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1890966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 True, but I still need something more than this: This guy sucks. As an entry :lol: How about this? Herald of Nurgle:I want to like this guy, I really do, but there's just no reason to take him. With no upgrades, you get a cheap HQ, but he won't do anything a couple of plaguebearers can't do just as well, except maybe kill a few initiative two models. So you give him upgrades to make him more effective, then you get a more expensive HQ who still won't do anything worthwhile. Breath of chaos won't help as he's too slow to use it reliably, noxious touch won't help since he just isn't killy enough, unholy might is wasted thanks to his poisoned attacks.....seeing a pattern here? Sufficed to say, we heartily recommend you don't take these, see the Epidemius entry for a Nurgle herald worth taking and why. Edit- Don't worry, I'm still working on the Khorne heralds entry, gonna get that up soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1891036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Yeah... pretty much what I came up with about 15 posts ago, but nevermind... :lol: So what next? Tzeentch or Slannesh? Counter Edit - Haven't we done the Kheralds yet? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1891049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Yeah we've done them, but you lot disagreed with what I wrote, so I need to rewrite it. Go for Tzeentch next, I'm too tired to say anything on him now, maybe in the morning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1891053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Ok, here goes: Herald of Tzeentch: Basically, a Horror on crack. 3 BS4, S5 AP3 shots can be nasty for MEq's, and he comes with that as standard. Has the full gamut of Tzeentch gifts available, so can quite happily go for a Bolt on the Dreadnought threatening your centre whilst Breatheing over the Terminator Squad that DS with the intention of rollicking through the flank. Whilst he can be used on foot, hidden in a Horror pack it's best to give him a Chariot - effectively turning him into a flying monster, capable of responding to almost any threat instantly. Also, a 4+ Save and 5 Wounds helps enormously. Like all Tzeentchian units, close quarter combat is best avoided. The Herald has only one trick up their sleeve - force weapon lite/Soul Devourer. Basically, a Power Weapon that forces the enemy to take a Ld check for each unsaved wound or suffer Instant Death. Still a pretty pointless upgrade though, as Heralds remain S3. Possibly good for sniping a lone HQ whilst Furiously Charging on Chariot (Yes, Tzeentch with FC...) but other than that, best to stick to Warpcraft from affar. Conclusion - a fairly cheap, reliable HQ choice that used properly could cause Havoc for the foe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1891067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I'd really stress how good a Chariot Herald is with Gaze, Bolt, Legion and Sorcery. The ability to fly around and snipe a MEQ squad followed up taking out a tank is amazing. Factor in the sheer number of wounds with a 4++ save and you have a unit that will need alot of dedicated attention to break. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159089-daemon-review-hq/page/7/#findComment-1891128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.