First game with daemons

[Rahveel]

So I have finally managed to scedual a game, and will be playing my never-before-feilded mono-Tz vrs my opponents SM's (whom I have been informed, will be taking DH allies, but no GK's) 1200 pts.

 

 

a quick rundown of my list:

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2x heralds on charriots with MoSor, WaL, Gaze and BoTz

 

2 units of 3 flamers (1 with BoTz)

 

2 units of 10 horrors. one changeling.

 

3 screamers

 

2 DPoTz both with gaze and BoTz

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so, look like a decent mono-Tz list?

what tactics can you offer me for fighting SM's (probably light on the vehicles, maybe a land raider, dread or 2). knowing my foe, he is likely to take a libby with the power that forces re-rolls on invun saves, and probably a unit or 2 of missile launcher devs. anything else is up in the air. he tends to play footslogging, very rare to see him take transports.

 

any tips for a new daemon lord?

[Evil Homer]

well you can expect to see the Inquisitor + Mystics retinue so there's that. If there is a LR on the table aim the screamers at it and let them fly. Its the best option you have for tackling armor that high. DP's can handle dreads pretty easy. Flamers kill troops good but if he is foot slogging he'll probably bury the shooty stuff in cover so that may negate some of their effectiveness. Just some things to watch out for. Whatever survives the shooting on your first drop should probably try and nail the DH mystic squads so everything else can come in unmolested.

 

EH

[minigun762]

2x heralds on charriots with MoSor, WaL, Gaze and BoTz

2 DPoTz both with gaze and BoTz

These will be your main anti-tank/anti-MC firepower. Gaze is nice but think of it as a backup to the Bolt, since the rest of your army can handle basic infantry well enough.

 

2 units of 3 flamers (1 with BoTz)

These will be your main MEQ killers. I'd aim for high value targets first, Sternguard, Devastators, even Terminators (though it might be wasted on the TH/SS ones).

 

2 units of 10 horrors. one changeling.

Focus them on scoring objectives first and foremost. After that provide firesupport to the rest of your army. Don't be afraid to put them in cover and go to ground. That way you can usually get a 3+ cover save.

 

3 screamers

With only 3 Screamers these guys serve 2 purposes really. First try to take out enemy armor with a focus on Land Raiders. After that use them to contest objectives with their huge movement range.

[Raptor1313]

Minigun summed up the capabilities of your army nicely.

 

The one other thing you can do with Screamers is throw them out as a speed bump. Your army loves to stay 18-24" away from the enemy, but you've got to keep objectives in mind.

 

Your Daemon Princes are ALSO your major counterassault force. They're the only thing in the army that can even do assault well, so keep them near your horrors and the like.

 

With the Flamers at 3 strong, I'd consider dropping the Bolt of Tzeentch. You've got several as-is (6, actually, which is pretty swell for this kind of an army) and 3 flamers are not durable at all. I'd probably avoid dealing with TH/SS termies with them unless you can combine squads on 'em.

 

Then again, such termies are invariably nasty, but you just shoot 'em 'til they stop moving. Might just take a LOT of shooting.

 

Then again, at 1200 points, shattering a 200pt termie squad is a big deal.

 

With the inevitable DH retinue....on the bright side, the Inquisitor and retinue is probably running him about 100ish points (assuming an Inquisitor w/ Psycannon, 2-3 heavy bolter servitors, and 2 mystics) and his HQ will run a similar amount minimum. Given the requisite tac squads, he'll have some room, but at 1200 there's only so much you can fit.

 

After the DH element, the next priority should be any fast assault elements. With marines, this means....assault marines, at best. Throw your DPs at them and shoot them and they'll fold. Then, prioritize his guns and/or template weapons.

[minigun762]

I'd probably avoid dealing with TH/SS termies with them unless you can combine squads on 'em.

 

Then again, such termies are invariably nasty, but you just shoot 'em 'til they stop moving. Might just take a LOT of shooting.

 

The best unit you have for TH/SS Terminators is actually the Horrors, 18" range means they can't normally assault you if they're walking and the sheer volume of dakka will start finding wounds quickly.

10 Horrors = 30 shots = 15 hits = 7.5 wounds = 1.1ish dead Terminator, not too horrible really for a unit that can kite them around.

[Raptor1313]

Note that kiting assault terminators only works if they're on foot.

 

Now, at 1200 if you see them, there's a decent chance they're on foot. On the other hand, if they're in a Land Raider, he gets the charge. He ESPECIALLY gets the charge off vs. daemons.

 

As for kiting, you move back 6", they move 6" and run d6. Depending on runs, you could have about two turns of shooting against 'em. I'd still combine fire on them, but you can get some horror lovin' in on them.

[Captain Malachi]

I have to be honest, I'd probably avoid trying to toast TH/SS termies with my flamers or horrors, and just leave them alone, they cost quite a lot, don't score and are slow with no ranged ability. Your list seems pretty good to be honest, though if he takes an inquisitor with sanctuary, you may as well not bother playing (this goes for any daemon list though).

[Rahveel]

well, Im not to likely to see TH+SS termies, he loves him some termies, but prefers LC's or regular SB+PF.

 

I dont have the DH codex in front of me, why is sanctuary usefull vrs Tz daemons? IIRC, it only stops assaulting, and moving to w/in 3"

 

thanks for the replies, what would you guys reccomend to take out inq rets and librarians?

[Raptor1313]

Best you can do if he brings Sanctuary is kill everything else.

 

Sanctuary means you can't move within 3" of the guy, or draw LOS through that barrier. So, you can't shoot him or assault him.

 

However, as soon as that guy does something other than stand still holding Sanctuary up, it drops. He CAN fight as normal in CC, but you can make him move by obviously not contacting him in melee.

 

Otherwise? Inquisitors and company are T3, and are singularly crappy in melee. There's not a good way to make a retinue into a melee unit.

 

For enemy librarians? Fistfights.

 

WS4, I4, 2 attacks, 2 wounds. Shoot him a lot. Only way to get more durable on a libby is to take Terminator Armor, and he's got the option for a Storm Shield, but that's 140pts there.

 

Just shoot whoever the guy's attached to, or beat him up in melee. An S4 power weapin with 2-3 attacks is hardly scary to this army.

[Rahveel]

so, if an inq took a psycannon, and a shooty ret, i should prety much avoid his aria of the table as much as possible, ya?

 

and it is the null zone + GoI combo that worries me with the libby.

 

one other question, do daemons still get sustained assault vrs DH?

 

thanks for the replies so far!

[Captain Malachi]

one other question, do daemons still get sustained assault vrs DH?

That rule doesn't actually exist anymore, so no.

[Raptor1313]

Cover's always equal to or better than your invulnerable save, though.

 

If he wants to Gate AND Null Zone, he's dropping a 150pt minimum Librarian. Epistolary is neat and all, but I'd run a terminator librarin for the durability boost first.

[Captain Malachi]

Cover's always equal to or better than your invulnerable save, though.

Another advantage the LoC has <_< ........................Why are you looking at me like that?

[Raptor1313]

Ah, but will you ever find actual cover for the Lord of Change?

 

That's the problem with our monstrous creatures. The Keeper of Secrets could use a cover save vs. psycannons, as could the GUO, but generally there's not enough TALL STUFF to pull it off. Best I can think of is putting 'em behind something like Bloodcrushers, but given unit size and base size that might not work out from all angles. Perhaps fiends?

 

That aside, just about every non-Tzeentch unit (outside of DPs w/ iron hide, Bloodcrushers, bloodthirsters, Soul Grinders, and maybe a few others) should really want to drop into cover for just this reason.

 

....albeit, Incenerators cover advantage up nicely, but we should really try NOT to fall into that kind of trap right off the deep strike.

[Rahveel]

well, I'd take fateweaver if I were playing a bit higher points of a game. I prefer the re-rolls to the CC abulity on paper. what are your opinions on a LoC vrs Fateweaver?

 

oh, and the game is tomorow by the way.

[Captain Malachi]

That's my point, LoC doesn't need the cover :lol: Although generally neither do the other greater daemons so my point was kinda moot.

 

As for fateweaver over LoC, don't worry about it, your list is fine as is. If you want a more in depth look at both units hop on over the "[Daemon review] HQ" thread. We covered both of them in there.

[minigun762]

As for fateweaver over LoC, don't worry about it, your list is fine as is. If you want a more in depth look at both units hop on over the "[Daemon review] HQ" thread. We covered both of them in there.

 

 

Ohhh a sneaky reference, I see how it is ;)

 

Besides the answer for Tzeentchian HQ's is ALWAYS 4 x Chariot Heralds, Bolt, Legion, Master

[Raptor1313]

I'd take Fateweaver, but make sure you cluser around him.

 

Though if you want uber-shooty HQ slots, Minigun's on the mark. You just can't match that bang for the buck, and as long as they stay out of rapid-fire range, they're good.

[Captain Malachi]

Ohhh a sneaky reference, I see how it is ^_^

Well, it'll be a while until we finalise it so in the meantime we may as well direct our current members over to it.

 

I just want to point out though that there are other options besides 4x chariots. A LoC is a viable option, as are the scribes, fateweaver and even just 2-3 chariots (never take just one though). However, as I said, list is fine as it is.

[minigun762]

Ohhh a sneaky reference, I see how it is ^_^

Well, it'll be a while until we finalise it so in the meantime we may as well direct our current members over to it.

 

I just want to point out though that there are other options besides 4x chariots. A LoC is a viable option, as are the scribes, fateweaver and even just 2-3 chariots (never take just one though). However, as I said, list is fine as it is.

 

Agreed, I'm being only semi-serious haha.

Its a pretty solid list, I think he should do just fine with some luck (we know how subject to luck daemons are...)

[Bonham1963]

Would it be possible to add icons to the horrors? I would remove 3 flamers, add icons and use those pts for more horrors 13 and 12 for horrors would still give you the same pts.

[Rahveel]

yeah, the daemon HQ (and eleite) threads on this board have been very helpfull, and were mostly responsible for my decision to do mono-tzeentch over mono-nurgle. very good threads, thanks for all the hard work you guys have put into them.

 

I plan to build 4 chariots, just to have the option, although I will usually load up on MC's as much as possible. just cuz i luv em. the blue scribes i will convert when I have a sizeable unit of flamers to toss them in. I would like to take Fateweaver in time to build a damage resistant firebase with my princes (plus a 3rd).

 

so stoked to play these guys, I've been playing CSM's for 11 years now, and these should provide a very fun change of pace.

[Rahveel]

So, first blood has Been spilled.

 

What a fun army to play. A refreshing change from evan my daemon heavy CSM.

 

My oponent was Ill prepaired, and had a very unlucky dice game, in part contributing to his massive loss. We played anhialation, dawn of war. Mighty and wise tzeentch tested me right off the bat, giving me a 1 when I rolled for waves. Fortunatly my flamers landed on target, and immediatly wiped a librarian and tax squad off the table. So much for my worries about null zone (during the game they also killed a 2nd tax squad, and half an =][=lord retinue before being killed).

 

The shooting from the heralds an princes was mich more potent than I had anticipated, and my horrors did nothing. Highlight of the game for me was stealing the dead =][=lord model and replacing it for my changeling.

[Captain Malachi]

Highlight of the game for me was stealing the dead =][=lord model and replacing it for my changeling.

I would love to see what would happen in the fluff if that happened. Imagine it, you're fighting for your life 'cos an inquisitor tells you too and all of a sudden he's standing on the other side of the battlefield. What do you do?

 

Anyway, give us a more detailed batrep :D (Yep, I'm greedy) Oh, and 'grats on the win.

 

 

 

(Also, my space bar seems to be broken, made writing this comment very difficult.)

[Vassakov]

Ah... another petty mortal fool falls fitfully, folding to the furious flames of the Lord of Change!

 

Sounds like you had a blast - I must admit, in all my Daemons games I'm yet to have a dull one. Also, nice work on the =][= Changeling - How useful was he in game?

 

Finally, thanks for the feedback on the [Reviews]. Don't know about the others, but I'm glad they've been of use to others. They've certainly given me ideas!