Grey Knights Sanctuary Psychic Power...

[DuskRaider]

Hey folks,

So one of my friends has recently started a Grey Knights army just to counter my Daemons army (lame). He pointed out he has one sure fire way of completely nullifying my entire army with a psyker power called Sanctuary, which prevents all daemons from coming within a 3" radius barrier. I agreed this would work against daemons, however it would be useless against Soul Grinders since they are only considered daemons in the codex for deep striking purposes. Furthermore, I also said it would be useless against Breath of Chaos and Phlegm attacks, to which he disagrees.

 

Can someone help clear this up? If this is the case and ALL daemon pieces / attacks are useless, it would be a trump that no Daemon army can stand against. On the other hand, I also pointed out the Daemonhunters codex is what? 6 years old? And the newer codex would nullify that, seeing as his codex still has powers regarding daemon instability. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

-DR

[Rahveel]

you may want to re-read your Soul Grinder entry, it is a deamon, and the entry goes on to elaberate how the daemon rule affects vehicles.

 

my brother uses sanctuary from time to time, the only way it can mean auto-win for him is if he can get all his sanctuary users onto a majority of the objectives, and then cast the power. if he moves, shoots, assaults, or, in general does anything other than just stand there, then sanctuary goes down, and he is vunerable again.

 

note: even with sanctuary up, a blast from a Soul grinder can still deveate onto him, and probably leave him a pile of quivering inquisitor goo.

[DuskRaider]

Hmm... well, in the codex it says the Soul Grinder is classified as a daemon so it can deep strike and ignores shaken and stunned. In any case, wouldn't Breath of Chaos ignore the bubble?

 

Edit:

Does this mean no one behind the barrier can attack? He's talking about throwing a heavy weapons team behind it and going to town. Seems like cheese city to me...

[Rahveel]

Well, sanctuary creates a 3" bubble that blocks los and counts as impassable terrain for daemons. So if any part of that heavy weapons squad is evan partilly out of that, they are free game. Template weapons still need los to fire, but could still catch the inq in their aoe under ideal conditions. Yes, it reaks of cheese to us daemon players.

 

My only other advice is to read over the sanctuary power in deteil prior to the game.

 

Oh ya, and look at the soul grinders special rules, it is a daemon.

[Rahveel]

Had another idea. Clever use of pavane could let you manuver his units to partilly within the bubble, letting you hit him with wind and SG's

[DuskRaider]

Yeah, probably. Only problem is I use Nurgle and Khorne exclusively. Eh, whatever. Like I told him, it's a stationary power, in order for him to get use out of it he has to find a good place to camp first. Good luck getting there in one piece, lol

[Infidel]

Had another idea. Clever use of pavane could let you manuver his units to partilly within the bubble, letting you hit him with wind and SG's

 

Did that once. Pavaned a squad of GKs between my Slaaneshi DP, and the breath template just so happens (oops) to cover everything.

 

After the coruscating warp-flame dispersed, there had been 5 steaming piles of molten gore and all that remained of the Grey knights are...wait, only one Grey knights died, so where did the other bodies come from?

 

Sorry, no bubble of doom no more.

[Captain Malachi]

DuskRaider, if he's gonna be like that and start a new army just to beat you, just bring along another army. What I mean is if he tailors his list purely to beat your daemons, bring along your Death Guard. Then when you've flattened him tell him to either play like a man or play someone else. Auto wins aren't fun for anyone.

 

But yeah, sanctuary is stupidly broken against daemons, if someone bases their army around it against me I just whip out my marines and slaughter him. :P This is why second armies are great.

[Custodian Athiair]

this is what i know about Sanctuary

for 70 point you can hold and objective from a deamon army for the entire game becuase:

the psychic power lasts until he moves, shoots or cast another psychic power. If he only has 1 psychic power he wont cast another one, and if you don't give him any weapons he only has range 12'' and he is on an objective with 5 -][- Stormtroopers so hold the objective.

And the power itself does this:

No deamon unit may come within 3'' of the user (so cant contest the objective) no one can draw LoS to the user, any deamons within that 3'' are pushed to the edge and if any deamons deep strike into that 3'' they are automatically wiped out

 

it is an evil psychic power for holding objectives but it so useful for DH players :P

 

Athiair ;)

[daboarder]

considering everyting else the daemonHUNTERS have that is anti deamon kinda sucks then complaining about one power that needs to be positioned first before its used isnt really the best response. and as for a mate starting a DH army cause you play daemons hell if a mate of mine did that id be all for it it would make for some great games both narrative and full on competetive.

[Captain Malachi]

It'd be fine, if he couldn't take five of them, a whole bunch of INV save ignoring weapons, and a whole host of other things that can destroy us no problem. Besides, if he puts the thing in a land raider crusader he gets an ever larger area of effect coupled with a stupid amount of infantry killing guns. It's just not fun to play a '5x sanctuary with 2x mystic with each' list.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Considering most of the anti-daemon stuff included in our base cost doesn't work any more, can you begrudge someone using the one bit that does work (if a bit too well)?

 

Failing that, if you still think it's broken, you are most welcome to help us lobby for a new codex. :)

[Captain Malachi]

Ok, I'm going through my DH codex right now and I'm going to list everything that is designed to beat daemons that no longer works, I'm fairly sure it won't be too long of a list:

 

Part of the rites of exorcism. (Only the bit about instability, it's still a very powerful ability)

Daemonic infestation (which is bad for us, not you).

Having multiple Heirophants. (Note that two of them can still be used to annoy Fateweaver, but that's it)

The banishment psychic power.

 

If I missed anything please let me know. All the other abilities were not directly against daemons so can't be counted.

[==Me==]

Sanctuary is auto-win against Daemons, there's nothing you can do about it. Sanctuary Inquisitor with 2 mystics, 2 sages (? extra Ld one) and a Land Raider can be run in multiples and Sanctuary is measured from the LR's hull. It's now a huge bubble of Daemons losing.

 

There's nothing you can do, beyond bringing a different army.

 

Daemon Player: "Hey man, let's get that game going. I brought my Daemons."

DH player: "Ok, let me deploy my Inquisitor with Sanctuary."

Daemon Player: "Good game bud, see you next week."

[Seahawk]

Know what the best part is? This:

 

Sanctuary Inquisitor with 2 mystics, 2 sages (? extra Ld one) and a Land Raider can be run in multiples and Sanctuary is measured from the LR's hull

 

...is not scoring. Hold one, wipe things off the others, and it's easy win for daemons. He's not capturing if he's blocking it with his land raider, or if it's moving at all (which it likely would be). There's as much reason to complain about that power as every else does about Lash (which isn't auto-win either). Valid complaint, but not valid to simply give up and not play. Find those work-arounds!

[OwlandMoonGuy]

Sanctuary gets even worse if the INQ is in a Landraider. Since it doesn't require LoS, I've seen it interpreted that you measure 3" off the hull of the vehicle as long as the INQ is embarked; giving you an unkillable LR with a 3" zone of ultimate daemonic protection. To restate the obvious, the DH codex was written with the intent that there would be mixed Chaos Marines + Daemonic units in the opposing army. The game designers never intended Sanctuary to trump an entire Codex/army.

 

I also don't adhere to the notion that GK force weapons blow off the Eternal Warrior USR but most sources seem to take the opposite view. Add Psycaonnons into the mix and you have a very tough army for a Daemon player to contend with. IF certain daemon benefits hadn't been removed maybe there'd be a counter. As it stands, the daemonic benefits are gone and the anti-daemon stuff got bumped up a bit.

 

If you're taking on a GK player who tools out his army just to kill daemons then play them for the challenge of it but note that the odds were against you from the get-go. Even more so if you're army isn't tricked out to kill marines. Personally, I think DH & WH are the 2 codices that are in most need of a refresh but GW and I never seem to see eye-to-eye when it comes to these decisions. Until that day, it is what it is.

 

-OMG

[DuskRaider]

Oh, I have no problem playing against him. I love the challenge, and I truthfully felt bad fielding my daemons against his only other force (Tau). On the flipside, what I COULD do is pretty much just hope I win the tactical roll, go first, drop down my Daemon Princes and Breath of Chaos his Inquisitor to cinders.

 

I really do wish they'd release a new DH codex, mainly because, as I told him BEFORE he bought the army, they're really not made to fight an all daemon force. Relying on one power is kinda stupid. Yeah, he can negate my invulnerable saves, but I can also just take a good amount of Khorne pieces with Iron Hide and negate his negate.

 

I look at it this way now... he has to get that unit with Sanctuary TO an objective first. I'm obviously not going to let it be easy, and if anything I can always hope the objective is a building... may not be able to target him, but I can sure target that building!

 

We'll see what he does when we play next, which is Wednesday. I really needed validation that what he was saying was, in fact, true.

[==Me==]

The LR doesn't have to be scoring. Objectives don't matter if the Daemon army can't deploy anything or gets shot up as he comes down.

 

Want scorers? GKs w/ psycannons next to the mystic Inquisitor. Daemons drop in (big chunks of the board cut off by even 2 Sanctuary Land Raiders) and get shot up with no invulnerables.

 

A tailored DH list is impossible to beat with Daemons, hell any Imperial army can throw in a 32 point Inquisitor and Mystic and basically screw any Daemon army over. Luckily, most people have no idea what they're doing and keep losing to Fatecrushers :blink:

[DuskRaider]

Screw the invulnerables, just run a ton of Bloodcrushers, Bloodthirsters, and Daemon Princes. Pretty much means Iron Hide all around.3+ armour save, jeez I guess that negating inv means all of nothing now.

[Ian Hockert]

Depending on how big a rules lawyer you want to be in the situation, Sanctuary doesn't actually work against that much of the daemon book. This is due to the fact that Sanctuary refers to the Daemonhunter codex definition of daemon, not the Chaos Daemons definition of Daemon. It still nails your GDs and Nurglings but it fails against everything else. Daemon Packs and Daemon Beasts no longer exist as a classification and the Soul Grinder is not technically a Daemonically Possessed vehicle (or at least nothing states it is), as such your troops, fast attack choices, and Soul Grinders ignore the effects of Sanctuary.

 

In most games I would not play it that way but if an opponent has built an army to specifically take advantage of Sanctuary to screw me over I would pull out my DH codex and show him what Daemon actually means for his army's abilities (pg 20 of DH codex).

[==Me==]

Screw the invulnerables, just run a ton of Bloodcrushers, Bloodthirsters, and Daemon Princes. Pretty much means Iron Hide all around.3+ armour save, jeez I guess that negating inv means all of nothing now.

 

And everything moves 6" or is stupidly expensive (ie: giant target). You drop in, Mystics let 1 unit shoot you. Normally it's psycannons, but it could be the LR's lascannons doing the job. Free shooting is free shooting, and if you deploy out to avoid it you do exactly what they want. Deploy close and you run the risk of landing in the Sanctuary zone or mishapping like normal.

[Captain Malachi]

Hockert, the problem is he'll just argue the point and you still won't have any fun. That's why I refuse to play a sanctuary list, you'll either get creamed and have no fun, or you can rules laywer the hell out of it and still have no fun.

[stump]

First post in this forum and I have no where near the experance with Daemons that some of you do(4 Games total).

 

I have a freind that played nothing but GK and he took this power a couple of times and it worked out good except for his army had like 28 models in it and most of it died to the rest of the daemon army. Yes the LR was rolling around untouchable but he could only score one objective and the Daemon player had the other 3 win for the Daemon player.

 

If a GK player took all Inq. for this power his army will be rough and almost unstoppable but thats part of the fun bring your army I will bring mine. It makes you a better player to adjustment to an opponent. Besides at a tourney he might beat you but a SM army will chew him and your next opponent will probley not have GK's.

 

My 2 cents

[DuskRaider]

Screw the invulnerables, just run a ton of Bloodcrushers, Bloodthirsters, and Daemon Princes. Pretty much means Iron Hide all around.3+ armour save, jeez I guess that negating inv means all of nothing now.

 

And everything moves 6" or is stupidly expensive (ie: giant target). You drop in, Mystics let 1 unit shoot you. Normally it's psycannons, but it could be the LR's lascannons doing the job. Free shooting is free shooting, and if you deploy out to avoid it you do exactly what they want. Deploy close and you run the risk of landing in the Sanctuary zone or mishapping like normal.

 

 

True. I prefer to use Daemonzilla most of the time, it's worked for me thus far. There's a risk running daemons in the first place, considering how unpredictable they are. I'd rather take my risk of landing too close, especially if it's first turn and I make the first move. As I said, you bet I'm going after the Inquisitor the very first turn. Breath of Chaos or a good Soul Grinder shot should take care of him..

[Captain Malachi]

True. I prefer to use Daemonzilla most of the time,

Good man :)

 

The thing is, you can try and take out the inquisitor first turn, and that'll solve the problem. However, if he's in a crusader then good luck, and even if he isn't he can take acolytes to shove wounds away from the inquisitor.