% Composition of Titan Legions

[Severus6]

All right, based on all of that, lets begin take two (2):

 

Standard Legion:

1 - Emperor

3 - Reavers (1 trio)

6 - Warlords (3 pairs)

8 - Warhounds (4 pairs)

10 - Knights (one full household = 1 Baron + 3 squads of 3 Knights or 1 Senchal + 2-4 Knights) {Associated or non-associated?}

 

Tech Guard:

1 - Battalion of Heavy infantry (Praetorians, 4 companys including transport element)

1 - Regiment of Light Infantry (Skitarii, 4 battalions including transport element)

3 - Armoured Companies (Tanks, sub-Super Heavies; i.e., Leman Russ's) {Do you think that this would include Hydras?}

1 - Super Heavy Tank Detachments (1-2 Super Heavies per detachment) {Shadowswords or a combination?}

 

Too little, too much,...whats the verdict gents?

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

Standard Legion:

1 - Emperor

10 - Knights (one full household = 1 Baron + 3 squads of 3 Knights or 1 Senchal + 2-4 Knights) {Associated or non-associated?}

 

Severus6

 

My questions are with these two parts (the biggest and smallest).

I don't think every Legion is going to have an Emperor. Thinking back to the HH Mechanicum, did Legio Tempestus have one because I don't remember the big special Titan being mentioned as an Emperor.

 

And again with the Knights, I'm not that certain if they are a standard organization within the Titan Legions or more of a specialist one. Would every Legion have access to them or even use them or could their roles be replaced by Warhounds and Super Heavy tanks?

[Severus6]

Good points both. I guess it could go either way with the Emp Titan. My theory for that was it would be the centerpiece of the Legion. Numbers wise we are not very large in any way shape or form and a single Emp grants us some worthy but not over the top weight. As for the Knights, I was leaning towards a tactical relationship rather than a operational relationship,...in that they work together/share resources, deploy and fight together. My reasoning for this is that I still feel we are light in Titans.

 

That and if we did not have an Emp Titan, would we have something else? Another set of Warlords perhaps? Maybe four (4) more Warhounds in lieu of the larger constructs. Baically a Hunter/Killer group as opposed to a set peice Legion.

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

That and if we did not have an Emp Titan, would we have something else? Another set of Warlords perhaps? Maybe four (4) more Warhounds in lieu of the larger constructs. Baically a Hunter/Killer group as opposed to a set peice Legion.

 

Severus6

 

I'd say that most Legions would WANT to have an Emperor or 5 as their centerpiece unit, but not all of them could field one.

In such a Legion, I'd assume that the most powerful Warlord would be the dominate Titan on the battlefield, and it would probably be determined by a combination of weapon loadout (I think anti-Titan would be regarded higher then anti-infantry/vehicles for example) and the prestige/powers of the Princeps.

 

Functionally I think a pair of Warlords is approximately equal to an Emperor, at least on paper.

[Severus6]

Functionally I think a pair of Warlords is approximately equal to an Emperor, at least on paper.

 

I dont know,...an Emp Titan is just straight away tough to kill and makes mince-meat out of evrything else on the battlefield. Its a tough call; or maybe I have the force structure screwed up?

 

Standard Legion:

1 - Emperor (?)

6 - Warlords (3 pairs)

6 - Reavers (2 trios)

8 - Warhounds (4 pairs)

10 - Knights (one full household = 1 Baron + 3 squads of 3 Knights or 1 Senchal + 2-4 Knights) {Non-associated; tactical affiliation only. They do not belong to the Titan Legion.}

 

Tech Guard:

1 - Battalion of Heavy infantry (Praetorians, 4 companys including transport element)

1 - Regiment of Light Infantry (Skitarii, 4 battalions including transport element)

3 - Armoured Companies (Tanks, sub-Super Heavies; i.e., Leman Russ's) {Do you think that this would include Hydras?}

1 - Super Heavy Tank Detachments (1-2 Super Heavies per detachment) {Shadowswords or a combination?}

 

Severus6

[Eddie Orlock]

I'll throw two bits in here.

 

Maybe there's a difference between 'Standard' and 'Normal'. Maybe what the Omnimessiah dictates as the plan and what the current dispositions are seldom quite line up. Thus, A standard legion would have an Emperor and increasing numbers all the way down, but in practise, perhaps the largest of their number has been disable and has been functionally replaced by a number of lesser machines in a task force until such time as this can be rectified. Given the complexity of Emperors, this could be an extended interval.

[minigun762]

I'll throw two bits in here.

 

Maybe there's a difference between 'Standard' and 'Normal'. Maybe what the Omnimessiah dictates as the plan and what the current dispositions are seldom quite line up. Thus, A standard legion would have an Emperor and increasing numbers all the way down, but in practise, perhaps the largest of their number has been disable and has been functionally replaced by a number of lesser machines in a task force until such time as this can be rectified. Given the complexity of Emperors, this could be an extended interval.

 

Thats what I was attempting to say, but Mr. Orlock put it much better.

Its like saying an SM Chapter is always going to be 10 Companies with X Chaplains, Y Librarians and Z Captains/Masters backed up by A Land Raiders etc etc

 

I think there are the Legions that have active Emperor's at their disposal and those that do not and make due the best they can.

[jeffersonian000]

I'm working on a Legion of my own for Apocalypse, mostly because I think it'd be cool to be able to claim the I have my own Legion. Since I'm poor in resources yet rich in determination, I've decided my home forge world should be the same. Here is what I'm planning on building:

 

Legio Crux Fidilus, aka "The Twenty"

Home: Forge World Crusible

 

Immortals:

Emperors "Oceanus" and "Tethys"

Warlords "Hyperion", "Theia", "Coeus", and "Phoebe"

Reavers "Mnemosyne", "Themis", "Cronus", "Rhea", "Crius", and "Iapetus"

Warhounds "Astraeus", "Asteria", "Helios", "Selene", "Eos", "Leto", "Pallas", and "Dione"

 

Cataphractii:

Knight Households (counts as Leman Russ Armoured Companys)

"Eisenfaust", "Odenwald", "Steigerson", "Altmuhl", "Baunach", "Rhon-Werra", "Gebirg", "Hegau", "Schwarwald", and "Kraichgau"

 

Praetorii

Grey Knights "Augustus Praetorii"

 

Skitarii

Sisters of Battle "Victrix Auxilleria"

 

Total: 20 Titans, 100 Knights, 1300 Infantry (not including transports)

 

SJ

[Severus6]

Looks good,...having the SoB and the GK as the heavier Infantry is a good call.

 

Severus6

[theredcorsair]

I'm just throwing this out there. This is a ratio from biggest to smallest, not including knights (IIRC they are separate). Only from what little I know about titans and what I learned from this thread;)

 

1:4:4:8

[minigun762]

I'm just throwing this out there. This is a ratio from biggest to smallest, not including knights (IIRC they are separate). Only from what little I know about titans and what I learned from this thread;)

 

1:4:4:8

 

 

So something like this

1 Emperor

4 Warlords

4 Reavers

8 Warhounds

 

Functionally it makes alot of sense. If it was me, I'd group them like this.

 

Emperor Titan + 2 Warhounds + 2 Reavers

Warhounds act as scouts and Reavers as bodyguards for the Emperor, keeping infantry, armor and smaller Titans from getting too close

 

2 Warlords + 2 Warlords + 2 Warhounds + 2 Warhounds

The main offensive element, Warhounds scout and screen Warlords who engage enemy Titans.

 

2 Warhounds + 2 Reavers

This is the backup squad. I could see the Reavers possibly going with the Warlord above for added firepower or the Reavers working with the Warhounds in hunter-killer squads.

[Severus6]

But this goes against the Reavers travel/grouped in threes (3's); basically trios.

 

Wouldnt it be: 1/4/6/8,...?

 

Severus6

[theredcorsair]

This is for a full legio, changed it a bit.

 

1:16:16:32

 

Anyways, what do you have to support the grouping of threes?

 

EDIT:This is not about how the legion is grouped, most generally run autonomously IIRC. Also, this would vary ALOT from legion to legion.

[minigun762]

I was reviewing this thread and I noticed this

Just to toss in some more info on the Reaver - they used to be considered main battle titans, until the advent of the Warlord class. Now, they generally perform the role of firesupport, rather than front line battle titans. And yes, they are increasingly rare because they have been superseded by the more capable class.

 

Is that true? Understandably the Warlord is bigger and more powerful, but wouldn't the Reaver's age indicate it is a superior design? (Given that most old things > than most new things).

I was under the impression that they were more rare because they were a more advanced Titan and therefore harder to create.

[jeffersonian000]

Per old fluff, Warhounds are the oldest Imperial Titan design, with Reavers being bigger Warhounds that filled a sustained combat role rather than fast/flanking role Warhounds are suited to. Warlords came about on Earth during the Age of Strife, and were used as siege engines by techno-barbarian forces when the Emperor conquered the Earth and then the Moon. Following the Emperor's visit to Mars, Warlords were put into full production and it was at that point the Emperor-class Titan was first conceived and constructed. Knights were a response to Eldar Exodites attempting to claim Agro-worlds allied with nearby Forge worlds, and are base in design and function on Eldar Revenant Titans while using Imperial construction techniques which places them post Age of Strife.

 

Given this time-line, Warhounds and Reavers are from the Dark Age of Technology, Warlords are from the Age of Strife, with Emperors and Knights being Great Crusade era designs. The only fluff to refute this is the story regarding the STC Titan, which could be considered a lie/propaganda as the STC Titan is the only source of information regarding its own construction and it was daemon infested for some period of time before its introduction to the story-line.

 

I'm just going off of memory; however, I'm really into the mechs in general and Titans were my gateway into 40k some 22 years ago.

 

SJ

[havoc3149]

While we are on the topic about the complexity of emperors, I think we should consider that there are different titan legions out there, and while the majority of the titan legions we see are divisio militaris, there are also the mandati legions as well, who are the executive branch of the colegio. Each of these legions only consist of 2 to 3 imperators, and are used in intensive sieges and exploratory missionary work (since they are walking cathedrals basically). So when we talk about the composition of the titan legions, we should also consider that there might be different branches that handle certain tasks, with the average militaris legion serving as the main force, while the imperators are sent on critical sieges and crusades. I also think that there are a couple other branches as well, like psy titan legions and experimental legions that test new designs for the standard legions (as well as producing for the otther legions them too). From Codex Titanicus

 

Yeah you can really tell I like imperators huh?

[Sons of Horus]

I remember reading that the Legio Ordo Sinister was the smallest Titan Legion but then again all 12 of their titans were Imperators :tu:

[theredcorsair]

While we are on the topic about the complexity of emperors, I think we should consider that there are different titan legions out there, and while the majority of the titan legions we see are divisio militaris, there are also the mandati legions as well, who are the executive branch of the colegio. Each of these legions only consist of 2 to 3 imperators, and are used in intensive sieges and exploratory missionary work (since they are walking cathedrals basically). So when we talk about the composition of the titan legions, we should also consider that there might be different branches that handle certain tasks, with the average militaris legion serving as the main force, while the imperators are sent on critical sieges and crusades. I also think that there are a couple other branches as well, like psy titan legions and experimental legions that test new designs for the standard legions (as well as producing for the otther legions them too). From Codex Titanicus

 

Yeah you can really tell I like imperators huh?

 

We are not talking about variables here, we are talking about the standard titan legio.

[jeffersonian000]

I've been pondering the imponderables this week and realized that GW has inadvertently given us our answer. Super-heavies form their own force org chart of 1-3 Super-heavies. 12 FOC's nets us 12-36 Super-heavies to a Chapter/Regiment equivalent, giving us a rough estimate of where a Legion should fit in the grand scheme of things. Now, add to this the fact that some units, such as the Emperor-class Titan, may very well fill all 3 of the slots available in its FOC, while units like the Warhound could flex a bit and fit in at 2-6 (or Knights fitting 10 into an FOC), giving us again a rough equivalent of around 30+ Titans to a Legion. We know that Legions with resources number 40+ (or just 12 in the case of an all Emperor Legion), while Legions without resources may number less than 30.

 

I'd go was this estimate:

 

1 Emperor = 1 FOC, 1-3 Warlords = 1 FOC, 1-3 Reavers = 1 FOC, 1-3 Warhounds = 1 FOC, 3-5 Knights = 1 FOC, and each Legion has 12 FOC's they can reasonably fill.

 

SJ

 

*edit was for spelling

[havoc3149]

Not quite redcorsair, because we are talking about all of the titan legions, not just the standard ones. Depending on its role, a legion is going to have a different composition of titans. Besides I don't remember the topic starting off with us talking about just the standard titan legion, so yes these variables count, especially since these special legions do make up a substantial percentage of titan legions. In fact, we know that even the standard militaris legions arent even the same and vary greatly so technically there is no standard legion.

[theredcorsair]

I'll rephrase that...The average titan legio.

[minigun762]

I've been pondering the imponderables this week and realized that GW has inadvertently given us our answer. Super-heavies form their own force org chart of 1-3 Super-heavies. 12 FOC's nets us 12-36 Super-heavies to a Chapter/Regiment equivalent, giving us a rough estimate of where a Legion should fit in the grand scheme of things. Now, add to this the fact that some units, such as the Emperor-class Titan, may very well fill all 3 of the slots available in its FOC, while units like the Warhound could flex a bit and fit in at 2-6 (or Knights fitting 10 into an FOC), giving us again a rough equivalent of around 30+ Titans to a Legion. We know that Legions with resources number 40+ (or just 12 in the case of an all Emperor Legion), while Legions without resources may number less than 30.

 

I'd go was this estimate:

 

1 Emperor = 1 FOC, 1-3 Warlords = 1 FOC, 1-3 Reavers = 1 FOC, 1-3 Warhounds = 1 FOC, 3-5 Knights = 1 FOC, and each Legion has 12 FOC's they can reasonably fill.

 

SJ

 

*edit was for spelling

 

I was thinking about what you said, and it makes some sense to me.

But what do you call the intermediate organizational units in a Legion.

So far it goes:

Legion

Demi-Legion (understrength Legion)

...

...

Individual Titans

 

So whats the spaces in between? (I just choose 2 lines at random)

 

As for deployment, I'm fairly certain the roles would be altered depending on how many Titans you have.

If all you drop planetside is two Warhounds, they very might well act as mini-Battle Titans, being the spearhead to an armored thrust.

If you add a Reaver, suddenly the Warhounds revert to either a Hunter/Killer role or act as bodyguards for the true Battle Titan.

[theredcorsair]

Could we please leave knights out. They aren't part of the adtitanicus very much and are not formal parts of titan legions. Maybe when we finish the discussion on the actual compostition.

[jeffersonian000]

I was thinking about what you said, and it makes some sense to me.

But what do you call the intermediate organizational units in a Legion.

So far it goes:

Legion

Demi-Legion (understrength Legion)

...

...

Individual Titans

 

So whats the spaces in between? (I just choose 2 lines at random)

 

As for deployment, I'm fairly certain the roles would be altered depending on how many Titans you have.

If all you drop planetside is two Warhounds, they very might well act as mini-Battle Titans, being the spearhead to an armored thrust.

If you add a Reaver, suddenly the Warhounds revert to either a Hunter/Killer role or act as bodyguards for the true Battle Titan.

 

Going with my FOC example, I'd say that a demi-Legion would just use less than their full FOC allotment, maybe no more than 6 FOC's. Of course, that's just my thoughts of how to define a Legion within the 5th Ed 40k rules structure.

 

 

Could we please leave knights out. They aren't part of the adtitanicus very much and are not formal parts of titan legions. Maybe when we finish the discussion on the actual compostition.

 

Except the Knight are apart of the Adeptus Titanicus as much as any other Titan class, they are just under represented in the current epic rules set, and lack official/FW 40k scale rules at this time. Rules exist for them, going all the way back to 2nd Ed, just nothing current. In point of fact, there are a number of people (myself included) that use Leman Russ Battle Tanks to count as non-superheavy Knight Titans. Others enjoy using Chaos Marine rules for their AdMech force in order to represent the odder Skitarii formations and to use Defilers as Knights (the closest match in game). So while they are not currently represented, Knights are a legitimist unit in any Titan Legion.

 

SJ

[minigun762]

Going with my FOC example, I'd say that a demi-Legion would just use less than their full FOC allotment, maybe no more than 6 FOC's. Of course, that's just my thoughts of how to define a Legion within the 5th Ed 40k rules structure.

 

That may be very well and true, but I'm still wondering what you'd call a pair of Titans, or 4 or 6 or anything other than a single Titan or a Legion. ^_^

I'm looking for the Titan equivalent of squad, platoon, company etc