% Composition of Titan Legions

[jeffersonian000]

Yep. That pretty much seems to fit with what most of us have been saying.

 

SJ

[minigun762]

Well, I know Reavers are the oldest Titans, so it's possible the Chaos Legions have a much higher proportion since they are mostly more ancient. Other than that.....no idea. Possibly the forgeworlds in the Eye are setup more for production of faster raiding models than Warlords?

 

As for the skill level difference, yep, it's pretty noticeable. Mostly a case of making the heroes more heroic I suspect, since Invicta also seems noticeably more skilled than Tempestus, who primarily amble around getting killed a lot, while Invicta does all the winning.

 

 

Good point about the Reavers being older, though that implies that either 1) Chaos/Dark Mechanicum is less able to produce the larger Titans then their Imperial counter-parts or 2) they are able to maintain their original Titans better then the Imperials.

Even given the speed difference between a Reaver and Warlord (which may/may not be significant I have no idea), it doesn't make too much sense to purposefully build the smaller/weaker Battle Titan if its just as easy to build the larger one. Considering the age of most of the Titans in the book, I'm leaning towards the 2nd point. Somehow they can either maintain their Titans better or they engaged in less battles and therefore have less losses.

 

On a slight tangent, is it just me or does the Reaver seem to be the odd man out as far as Titans go. You have a scout/light Titan, a main battle Titan and a super heavy gun platform Titan. The Reaver's role doesn't seem as well defined as the rest of them.

[TheRealAxel]

I'd argue it's an obsolete model. They haven't been scrapped because of the reverence for ancient working technology. Besides which, they're still effective - just not as an efficient use of resources as a Warlord or Warhound.

 

Since they seem to be more-or-less walking shrines to the Omnissiah they are, in practice (if such a thing exists for a future alternative universe), retro-fitted as artillery and support Titans.

[Blackrose]

I'd argue it's an obsolete model. They haven't been scrapped because of the reverence for ancient working technology. Besides which, they're still effective - just not as an efficient use of resources as a Warlord or Warhound.

 

Since they seem to be more-or-less walking shrines to the Omnissiah they are, in practice (if such a thing exists for a future alternative universe), retro-fitted as artillery and support Titans.

 

 

Pretty much this. They were the primary battle machine before the Warlord was invented...after the Warlord came along, they got mostly relegated to fire support roles, at which they perform just as well as a bigger Titan.

[Severus6]

I wouldnt go so far as saying its obselete but definately antiquated. Sort of like those old destroyers that havent been upgraded with the newest armor or engines yet still effective enough to be used. I would imaging that is why they have been grouped together in threes. A larger or even equivilent Titan (a newer model possibly) is able to match and destroy it. Add a second and threat changes; you now have to allocate a larger or several smaller Titans to either destroy those two or at least prepare a screen or guard mission. Add a third and now you have a whole flank that must be dealt with especially if you are a single large Titan. You can destroy the first, maybe fight off the second, but it will be the third that zaps you.

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

I wouldnt go so far as saying its obselete but definately antiquated. Sort of like those old destroyers that havent been upgraded with the newest armor or engines yet still effective enough to be used. I would imaging that is why they have been grouped together in threes. A larger or even equivilent Titan (a newer model possibly) is able to match and destroy it. Add a second and threat changes; you now have to allocate a larger or several smaller Titans to either destroy those two or at least prepare a screen or guard mission. Add a third and now you have a whole flank that must be dealt with especially if you are a single large Titan. You can destroy the first, maybe fight off the second, but it will be the third that zaps you.

 

Severus6

 

I could understand that if technological advancements went in the normal direction (increasing with time) but the opposite is true for most of this galaxy. The older stuff is almost always the better stuff.

 

I thought I remember reading somewhere that the Reaver is a more advanced design, one that is harder to recreate and that is a large reason why there is a shift to the comparably simpler Warlord design.

[Blackrose]

I wouldnt go so far as saying its obselete but definately antiquated. Sort of like those old destroyers that havent been upgraded with the newest armor or engines yet still effective enough to be used. I would imaging that is why they have been grouped together in threes. A larger or even equivilent Titan (a newer model possibly) is able to match and destroy it. Add a second and threat changes; you now have to allocate a larger or several smaller Titans to either destroy those two or at least prepare a screen or guard mission. Add a third and now you have a whole flank that must be dealt with especially if you are a single large Titan. You can destroy the first, maybe fight off the second, but it will be the third that zaps you.

 

Severus6

 

I could understand that if technological advancements went in the normal direction (increasing with time) but the opposite is true for most of this galaxy. The older stuff is almost always the better stuff.

 

I thought I remember reading somewhere that the Reaver is a more advanced design, one that is harder to recreate and that is a large reason why there is a shift to the comparably simpler Warlord design.

 

Entirely possible....could be as simple as the Warlord design being better optimised for mass production. less complicated parts/construction techniques etc.

[jeffersonian000]

Entirely possible....could be as simple as the Warlord design being better optimised for mass production. less complicated parts/construction techniques etc.

 

That has been thoughts on this as well. Warlords are crude to a Reaver's elegance, yet a Warlord is still a “ship of the line of battle” while the Reaver no longer is.

 

SJ

[minigun762]

Entirely possible....could be as simple as the Warlord design being better optimised for mass production. less complicated parts/construction techniques etc.

 

That has been thoughts on this as well. Warlords are crude to a Reaver's elegance, yet a Warlord is still a “ship of the line of battle” while the Reaver no longer is.

 

SJ

 

 

That makes perfect sense to me. You have a more advanced but ultimately weaker design in the Reaver whereas the Warlord is a less advanced but stronger design. This makes the Warlord a better main battle Titan (where its toughness and numbers matter more) and leaves the Reaver as a support Titan (where it can be relatively safer but still contribute to the battlefield).

[Severus6]

Thats what I was thinking with the "triad" configuration (no, thats not doctrine),...acts as either support or a heavy tactical reserve.

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

Thats what I was thinking with the "triad" configuration (no, thats not doctrine),...acts as either support or a heavy tactical reserve.

 

It would make sense to husband your more limited resources like that. Maybe even attach them to other Titan detachments since the same way a heavy weapon squad might get attached to an infantry platoon.

 

I'm sure Warhounds would work the same way since its role is more limited then strict battle Titan.

 

I could see a typical detachment working something like this:

 

5-8 Warlords working either separately or in pairs (I noticed alot of Warlord pairs in Titanicus)

1 "squad" of 3 Reavers as fire support

1-2 pairs of Warhounds to scout and protect the flanks

 

At first it seem a little top heavy, but functionally and logistically it makes sense since the smaller Titans are either more rare or more specialized than the simpler battle Titan.

[spu00sed]

There is one problem with the composition being discussed.

 

It doesn't take into acount the other types of titan.

 

For example the warhound is noted as being the only scout class titan deployed on Armageddon.

 

In addition there are such things as Hun, Goth and Nightbringer titans, those these could be seen as varirants on Reaver and Warlord Chasis with the reactor out put being realigned (for more speed/firepower/shields).

[Severus6]

I agree; your mainstay "meat and potatoes" Titan being the Warlord with a squad/wing of Reavers acting as support or a heavy reserve. I still think that there would be more Warhounds though acting as more than just Scouts,...running Screen and Guard missions or simply turning a flank while being paired up with some other larger Titans.

 

Severus6

[jeffersonian000]

That's my point exactly with the navel analogy. Warhound, Reaver, Warlord, and Emperor are classes of Titan just like there are numerous classes of warships. Yet warships function in modern combat by using different classes of vessel for specific roles that are better suited to their design. Warhounds are scout/light Titans intended for the role of screening the larger battle Titans; the number of Warhounds in a Legion will depend on the number of battle Titans in the Legion. Reavers and Warlords are both battle Titans, yet the Warlord is the heavier unit of the two and the one most likely to be seen at the core of a Legion's fighting force. Emperors and Reavers are too rare and too much at the extremes to be core units, which is why we see them in a support role per all of the fluff.

 

All we need to do is decide how many Warlords we will have in our Legion. The rest of the Titans will fall into their respective places based on what role we wish to assign them, and thus their numbers will be revealed.

 

SJ

[minigun762]

All we need to do is decide how many Warlords we will have in our Legion. The rest of the Titans will fall into their respective places based on what role we wish to assign them, and thus their numbers will be revealed.

 

Do we think that every Legio would have similar access to the more rare designs like Reavers and Emperor's?

 

I feel like older/larger Legios would have more of the older/better stuff while the newer/smaller might have to make due with the newer designs like Warlords and Warhounds.

 

I'm trying to think back to Titanicus and I thought there was a difference in Titan loadouts between the two Legios.

[Severus6]

All we need to do is decide how many Warlords we will have in our Legion. The rest of the Titans will fall into their respective places based on what role we wish to assign them, and thus their numbers will be revealed.

 

Depending on the size of the Legion, I would say (based on all that we have discussed) that the average for a small Legion would be four (4) to six (6) Warlords and for the larger Legions it would be seven (7) to eleven (11) while the larger Legions would have anywhere from twelve (12) to twenty (20) Warlords. That would be the "backbone" of the Legion.

 

Do we think that every Legio would have similar access to the more rare designs like Reavers and Emperor's?

 

No, I thought we had already decided that they would not. In fact there would be, based on age of the Tiatn Legion, a very clear deliniation of type and number of the older and or more rare Titans.

 

I feel like older/larger Legios would have more of the older/better stuff while the newer/smaller might have to make due with the newer designs like Warlords and Warhounds.

 

Agreed,...but I can see some of the newer Legions with the Warlords and Warhounds having a distinct advantage over the older Legions. The less diverity you have the easier it is to replace and repair damaged Titans.

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

Depending on the size of the Legion, I would say (based on all that we have discussed) that the average for a small Legion would be four (4) to six (6) Warlords and for the larger Legions it would be seven (7) to eleven (11) while the larger Legions would have anywhere from twelve (12) to twenty (20) Warlords. That would be the "backbone" of the Legion.

That seems alot smaller then the sizes listed in Titanicus.

 

No, I thought we had already decided that they would not. In fact there would be, based on age of the Tiatn Legion, a very clear deliniation of type and number of the older and or more rare Titans.

Agreed.

 

Agreed,...but I can see some of the newer Legions with the Warlords and Warhounds having a distinct advantage over the older Legions. The less diverity you have the easier it is to replace and repair damaged Titans.

This makes perfect sense. It seems to be the case that most Legio's Titans are made from the same forge world so they should have the same/similar designs and therefore maintenance.

Plus if you only have to take care of 2 types of Titans, its less in the way of parts, expertise and hopefully a quicker turn around time in the shop.

 

 

Realistically, there isn't alot that Reavers can do special compared to Warlords so not having access to them shouldn't be a big disadvantage on the battlefield and Emperor's are only brought onto the field in special situations (or to die epically).

[Severus6]

That seems alot smaller then the sizes listed in Titanicus.

 

I was under the impression that those were the older more established Legions,....and we are definately not that.

 

(shakes fist in frustration) Drat! Stupid timeline! :)

 

Severus6

[jeffersonian000]

Hopefully, the rumored 17th codex will be the Mechanicus, with the background history and org charts there in to give us all some peace of mind on this.

 

SJ

[Severus6]

Hopefully, the rumored 17th codex will be the Mechanicus, with the background history and org charts there in to give us all some peace of mind on this.

 

Oh to dream,....However, if such a thing were to take place then I may very well have to find a new basement or convince the spousal unit to release the funds to build me a "shed"in the backyard as the basement would no longer be adequate to store the "troops". B)

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

Hopefully, the rumored 17th codex will be the Mechanicus, with the background history and org charts there in to give us all some peace of mind on this.

 

SJ

 

Ohh I would instantly drop IG as my backup army at the chance of making a pure AM force.

[Severus6]

All right gents; so here we are, Q&A time.

 

1. Are we an older and more established Legion or a smaller less established Legion or something in between?

 

2. We have decided that the Warlord will be the mainstay of the Legion; is that a true statement? I believe it is; if that is not true then lets go back and re-evaluate our analysis.

 

3. What are our support assets (I am assuming we do) and do we have ties (hereditary, economic, or political) to other groups within the AM. I base this question on the "all-source" readings we have discussed.

 

4. Once we have the outline of the Legion and its suppport I think the next part would be the total "background" of the Legion; from Forgeworld to specific battles; dogma and names of the Titans and their Commanders. I realize that this llast step is a rather large and daunting task but I look upon this as no different creating a DIY Chapter.

 

If anybody else has any other ideas or comments, lets hear it. Thanks.

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

Ohh are we making up our own Legion?

[foto69man]

All right gents; so here we are, Q&A time.

 

1. Are we an older and more established Legion or a smaller less established Legion or something in between?

 

2. We have decided that the Warlord will be the mainstay of the Legion; is that a true statement? I believe it is; if that is not true then lets go back and re-evaluate our analysis.

 

3. What are our support assets (I am assuming we do) and do we have ties (hereditary, economic, or political) to other groups within the AM. I base this question on the "all-source" readings we have discussed.

 

4. Once we have the outline of the Legion and its suppport I think the next part would be the total "background" of the Legion; from Forgeworld to specific battles; dogma and names of the Titans and their Commanders. I realize that this llast step is a rather large and daunting task but I look upon this as no different creating a DIY Chapter.

 

If anybody else has any other ideas or comments, lets hear it. Thanks.

 

Severus6

 

 

1. If you go with a newer legion, you have more options available to you. What about a 'second founding' legion? Say a rediscovered forge world???

 

2. If you go the rediscovered route, you can say an Emperor Class was found in dis-repair, so in the future it can be added. And yes I think the Warlord is definitley the mainstay of any legion

 

3. We have the Skitarii legions...Ordniatus Minoris and Majoris.......................ummm...If our forgeworld is anywhere close to a Salamanders or Iron Hands chapter keep/planet, we could have ties to them too

 

4. I will gladly help with this task...i love fluff and background, ecspecially titans

 

 

:mellow:

[Severus6]

Well, truth be told, the initial concept was to simply determine what a "normal" Legion would loook like. But since this thread has substantially grown I think it is time to take it to the next level.

 

Additionally, once this is complete, I want to submit this project to the Librarium.

 

Severus6