% Composition of Titan Legions

[minigun762]

1. Are we an older and more established Legion or a smaller less established Legion or something in between?

I would agree with something that is the equivalent of a "Second Founding" Legion. Maybe born out of the Horus Heresy but that didn't exist fully for Great Crusade. I am fond to the idea of a small group of Titans used as a security force for their (somewhat) backwater Forge World that escaped much of the Horus Heresy. In this way we could have been a minor player pre-Heresy but post-Heresy we are in a position to take a more aggressive role.

 

2. We have decided that the Warlord will be the mainstay of the Legion; is that a true statement? I believe it is; if that is not true then lets go back and re-evaluate our analysis.

I vote that our foundation should be Warlords supported by a moderate amount of Warhounds and a token Reaver force. Whether or not to include an Emperor is still up for debate but I'd almost be tempted to say no because it seems to dominate everything else.

 

3. What are our support assets (I am assuming we do) and do we have ties (hereditary, economic, or political) to other groups within the AM. I base this question on the "all-source" readings we have discussed.

If we go with the small Forgeworld making it big, I'd say we have the basic backing of the AM (Skitarii etc) as well as the local worlds or those worlds which supply the Forgeworld with food/manpower resources. I'd stay awya from any strong connections to any particular SM Chapter.

 

4. Once we have the outline of the Legion and its suppport I think the next part would be the total "background" of the Legion; from Forgeworld to specific battles; dogma and names of the Titans and their Commanders. I realize that this llast step is a rather large and daunting task but I look upon this as no different creating a DIY Chapter.

I'd be down for that. I think we should aim for a ballpark number of Titans for our Legion. If it was totally up to me, I'd like to see 20-30 strong.

[foto69man]

1. Are we an older and more established Legion or a smaller less established Legion or something in between?

I would agree with something that is the equivalent of a "Second Founding" Legion. Maybe born out of the Horus Heresy but that didn't exist fully for Great Crusade. I am fond to the idea of a small group of Titans used as a security force for their (somewhat) backwater Forge World that escaped much of the Horus Heresy. In this way we could have been a minor player pre-Heresy but post-Heresy we are in a position to take a more aggressive role.

 

2. We have decided that the Warlord will be the mainstay of the Legion; is that a true statement? I believe it is; if that is not true then lets go back and re-evaluate our analysis.

I vote that our foundation should be Warlords supported by a moderate amount of Warhounds and a token Reaver force. Whether or not to include an Emperor is still up for debate but I'd almost be tempted to say no because it seems to dominate everything else.

 

3. What are our support assets (I am assuming we do) and do we have ties (hereditary, economic, or political) to other groups within the AM. I base this question on the "all-source" readings we have discussed.

If we go with the small Forgeworld making it big, I'd say we have the basic backing of the AM (Skitarii etc) as well as the local worlds or those worlds which supply the Forgeworld with food/manpower resources. I'd stay awya from any strong connections to any particular SM Chapter.

 

4. Once we have the outline of the Legion and its suppport I think the next part would be the total "background" of the Legion; from Forgeworld to specific battles; dogma and names of the Titans and their Commanders. I realize that this llast step is a rather large and daunting task but I look upon this as no different creating a DIY Chapter.

I'd be down for that. I think we should aim for a ballpark number of Titans for our Legion. If it was totally up to me, I'd like to see 20-30 strong.

 

 

I like the backwater forge idea...very believable, or a secure AM site that we were told to guard even? I agree an emperor is pretty overpowering, that's why I suggested it be a disused broke down one...so it could be used in the infinite future maybe? It was just an idea though.

 

I know you were shying away from any chapters........but I do love a good conspiracy, and come on, this is the AM...knowledge is power my friend...

 

The only major event the Iron Hands Legion participated in the Horus Heresy was the death of their Primarch and his entire retinue in Isstvan V betrayal. Rumors persist that Ferrus Manus's corpse was taken to Mars; the Iron Hands deny any such claims. The Iron Hands bear a slight grudge against all the participants of the Heresy: the traitors, for being weak enough to become corrupted, and the other loyalists, for not being strong enough to protect the Emperor.

 

I'm sure something as a disappearing body of a primach, one so steepped in AM beliefs, would make good background fluff...

 

Oh yeah, i also agree with the low number of titans too...

[Severus6]

QUOTE

1. Are we an older and more established Legion or a smaller less established Legion or something in between?

 

I would agree with something that is the equivalent of a "Second Founding" Legion. Maybe born out of the Horus Heresy but that didn't exist fully for Great Crusade. I am fond to the idea of a small group of Titans used as a security force for their (somewhat) backwater Forge World that escaped much of the Horus Heresy. In this way we could have been a minor player pre-Heresy but post-Heresy we are in a position to take a more aggressive role.

 

Truth be told, I think that may be a little too much; a later forging perhaps with the advent of the reconquest of several worlds well after the Heresy. It doesnt have to be "backwater" either, simply smaller than most or basically the average size Forgeworld. Possibly the AM has jurisdiction over a specific outlying sector and the placement of a Titan Legion in that sector guarentees a certain amount of security along with the obvious other AM forces. A Titan Legion is like a Space Marine Chapter in that it is a Imperial "Trump Card". Its there for a reason and to drop that on someone means that the powers that be are not messing around.

 

QUOTE

2. We have decided that the Warlord will be the mainstay of the Legion; is that a true statement? I believe it is; if that is not true then lets go back and re-evaluate our analysis.

 

I vote that our foundation should be Warlords supported by a moderate amount of Warhounds and a token Reaver force. Whether or not to include an Emperor is still up for debate but I'd almost be tempted to say no because it seems to dominate everything else.

 

I agree completely; the Warlord should be the mainstay. Sitting down and thinking about it, this came to mind.

 

1. Eleven (11) Warlords equating to five (5) pairs with a single senior/command Warlord that would attach to other teams or roam independently.

 

2. Three (3) Reavers that act as fire support and the Rear Guard / Tactical Reserve.

 

3. Nine (9) Warhounds broken into four (4) teams of two (2) with a single Warhound acting as the second in command of the Legion and senior recon officer.

 

QUOTE

3. What are our support assets (I am assuming we do) and do we have ties (hereditary, economic, or political) to other groups within the AM. I base this question on the "all-source" readings we have discussed.

 

If we go with the small Forgeworld making it big, I'd say we have the basic backing of the AM (Skitarii etc) as well as the local worlds or those worlds which supply the Forgeworld with food/manpower resources. I'd stay awya from any strong connections to any particular SM Chapter.

 

I can see four (4) combat battalions (I am not ready to discuss support units as of yet). Two (2) Infantry, one (1) Armor, and finally a single Artillery Battalion. My suggestion for the Infantry would be that both units are either Mechanized or that one of them be Air Assault capable with an additional mission of forward recon.

 

QUOTE

4. Once we have the outline of the Legion and its suppport I think the next part would be the total "background" of the Legion; from Forgeworld to specific battles; dogma and names of the Titans and their Commanders. I realize that this llast step is a rather large and daunting task but I look upon this as no different creating a DIY Chapter.

 

I'd be down for that. I think we should aim for a ballpark number of Titans for our Legion. If it was totally up to me, I'd like to see 20-30 strong.

 

Just and initial stab.

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

I like it so far Severus6.

 

The idea of a "backwater" Forge World might have been confusing. I wasn't looking for one that was forgotten or rediscovered, instead I'd like it to not be front line, big fancy famous Forge World.

simply smaller than most or basically the average size Forgeworld

This is perfect. Maybe its in charge of a large sector that is sparely populated or the reverse, a small sector of a few important/large worlds.

 

I agree completely; the Warlord should be the mainstay. Sitting down and thinking about it, this came to mind.

 

1. Eleven (11) Warlords equating to five (5) pairs with a single senior/command Warlord that would attach to other teams or roam independently.

 

2. Three (3) Reavers that act as fire support and the Rear Guard / Tactical Reserve.

 

3. Nine (9) Warhounds broken into four (4) teams of two (2) with a single Warhound acting as the second in command of the Legion and senior recon officer.

Perfect I say! Gives us 23 Titans which is fairly substantial. I was reading Dark Creed and they talked about a Demi-Legion of 12. If we assume Demi-Legion is approximately 1/2 a full Legion then thats a reasonable number. Sidenote: How many Loyalist Titans were in Storm of Iron?

 

I can see four (4) combat battalions (I am not ready to discuss support units as of yet). Two (2) Infantry, one (1) Armor, and finally a single Artillery Battalion. My suggestion for the Infantry would be that both units are either Mechanized or that one of them be Air Assault capable with an additional mission of forward recon.

That seems kinda small actually. Wouldn't that be the equivalent of 1-2 IG Regiments only? I guess thats not that small considering we're not a huge Forge World. The breakdown of the types seems fair. I wouldn't make a decision about the Air Assault until we decide on what type of system and planet we have.

[foto69man]

Give me a day or two and i can re-read storm of iron and give you an exact number of titans.

[Severus6]

That seems kinda small actually. Wouldn't that be the equivalent of 1-2 IG Regiments only? I guess thats not that small considering we're not a huge Forge World. The breakdown of the types seems fair. I wouldn't make a decision about the Air Assault until we decide on what type of system and planet we have.

 

You're right, its to small,...I would think that you would require at least another Infantry Battalion and another Armor Battalion or possibly a Armored Cavalry unit with lots of Salamanders, Sentinals, and light Tanks. That could be your Recon unit that ranges forward at ground level and coordinates with the Warhounds. You could dispense with the Air Assault force and simply make that unit another Mechanized force. So in essence you would have:

 

1. Three (3) Mechanized Infantry Battalions

2. One (1) Armored Battalion

3. One (1) Armored Cavalry Battalion

4. One (1) Artillery Battalion

 

Basic Tactical Formation:

 

[_____Armored Cavalry Battalion_____] Inside of Indirect Fire Support

 

(3-5 kilometers behind)

 

[_____1st Mech Infantry_____]

 

(2-3 kilometer seperation between battalions)

 

[_____2nd Mech Infantry_____] [_____3rd Mech Infantry_____]

 

(2-3 kilometer from trail Mech Battalions)

 

[_____1st Armored_____]

 

(2-3kilometers trail from Armored Battalion)

 

[_____1st Artillery_____]

 

Just a thought,...

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

What about turning one of the Mech Infantry Battalions into a Recon Force with a mix of Chimera/Valkaries/Sentinels and other light forces. They could also be the mountain/rugged terrain specalists. Something akin to the US 10th Mountain Division.

 

This means that it would look like:

2 mech infantry Battalions (line troops)

1 mixed infantry recon Battalion

1 artillery Battalion

1 Armored Battalion

 

One thing, do we want all of our ground pounders to be Skitarii/Tech Guard or would be want to include some kind of IG PDF on planet?

[foto69man]

Storm of Iron has the Demi-Legion of Legio Ignatum. Yellow and Red Colors.

 

1 Command Warlod - Imperator Bellum

2 Support Warlods - Honoris Causa

- Clavis Regni

 

5 Reaver Titans...no names as of yet, give me time

 

4 Warhounds...no names either

 

 

 

So 12 titans for a demi-legion it seems

[minigun762]

Well thanks to Wikipedia, I see that demi = half

Demi is the French translation meaning half. For example, demi frere which means half brother or demi soeur which means half sister.

 

So I think we're set on the 24(ish) Titans for our Legion.

 

EDIT: Thanks for looking that up foto69man.

[Severus6]

One thing, do we want all of our ground pounders to be Skitarii/Tech Guard or would be want to include some kind of IG PDF on planet?

 

I would think that all of these guys belonged to the Legion; hands down. There is no playing "Mom against Dad", a set command structure is in place and no question as to who you owe your loyalty to. The Legion would always come first; they would take pride in the fact that they are not simply Tech Guard but units that are a part of the Legion and not simply attached to the Legion. They would wear the units colors and heraldry. It would be considered a singular honor to be a part of the combat support forces of the Legion. The senior ground officers would speak directly to Princeps during combat in order to feed information to them and increase the chances of success to "their" Legion.

 

So I think we're set on the 24(ish) Titans for our Legion.

 

We are at 23 right now,....do we need to add more and if so why? Not being critical, just curious as to why.

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

Well said Severus6, I was just bringing the idea up the to get it clarified. Reading Titanicus gave me the idea that you might have 2 command structures on a planet but making it a single, Legion based force is easier/better I think.

 

Oh 23 is fine, I was just doing the quick math that said we're in the approximate area for a full Legion considering we have 2 references of 12 Titans = Demi-Legion.

[foto69man]

The tech guard would wear the legion colors, but the skitarii all dress more beastly, to scare their enemies. I'll find the quote describing them in Titanicus in a second

[minigun762]

but the skitarii all dress more beastly, to scare their enemies. I'll find the quote describing them in Titanicus in a second

 

Thats if we want our Skitarii to be like that. I remember other books where they are described differently.

 

From the sound of it, the actual Skitarii troops (aren't all of the non-Titan forces called Skitarii?) are bred/designed/armed differently depending on the parent Forge World.

[Severus6]

Skitarii and Tech Guard take many forms and we have to decide what we want these forces to look like so that it falls into place and fits into the general "feel" of the Legion.

 

As to the difference between the forces of the Legion and the AM I would think that you would have two forces on the planet. One that was part of the AM proper and the other group that belonged solely to the Legion. Personally I can see a somewhat of a rivalry between the two.

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

As to the difference between the forces of the Legion and the AM I would think that you would have two forces on the planet. One that was part of the AM proper and the other group that belonged solely to the Legion. Personally I can see a somewhat of a rivalry between the two.

 

Interesting point there.

 

Ok so what do we need to decide next? Lets try and keep this organized.

 

Severus6, since this was your idea I'm assuming you're kinda taking charge. Maybe we'll do another "answer questions 1-5" post to get an idea.

[Severus6]

Sounds good, we will give it a day or two for folks to take a look at stuff and then we will go from there. I want folks to take a hard look at composition and disposition of the Legion and most importantly to start thinking about the overall "feel" of the Legion. Once we start getting that hammered out more of the peices will fall into place.

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

Here is what I've thought about so far, I'm far from a master on Titan Legion structure so I took what I could from online sources.

 

Name: I got nothing so far

Colors: I like the idea of Grey/Blue or Grey/Green. Alot of Legions seem to have very bright colors, so this is different

Forge World: I don't have a good name yet but I'd like a planet that is somehow different then the typical barren wasteland of rock and sand. Maybe an ocean planet? Ice world? Maybe the atmosphere has constant rolling storms and everyone lives underground?

Location: I'm thinking either segmentum Pacificus or Tempestus. I want to stay away from either the Eye of Terror or the Eastern Fringe since everything seems to happen in those locations.

Combat Doctrine: I'd like to see a focus on conservative combined arms. By this I mean, they are a small/average forge world and so want to keep what Titans they have alive and functional. This means they don't take many risks and rely heavily on their support units to clear the way and protect their Titans.

[KhorneHunter57x]

Hi. I have been watching this thread for a while with great interest and I thought I might provide a bit of input.

Here is what I've thought about so far, I'm far from a master on Titan Legion structure so I took what I could from online sources.

 

Name: I got nothing so far

Well, Legio B&C is taken :D .

Colors: I like the idea of Grey/Blue or Grey/Green. Alot of Legions seem to have very bright colors, so this is different

I also like Grey/Blue. They go well together, and as you said it is different from the other Legions.

Forge World: I don't have a good name yet but I'd like a planet that is somehow different then the typical barren wasteland of rock and sand. Maybe an ocean planet? Ice world? Maybe the atmosphere has constant rolling storms and everyone lives underground?

I think that a Forge World where everyone lived underground seems just a bit too Necron-y. Also, if the storms prevented life outside wouldn't the people there just get someting like bionic skin (they are the AdMech after all, flesh is weak etc.)?

 

Just a few thoughts from a fresh mind.

[minigun762]

I think that a Forge World where everyone lived underground seems just a bit too Necron-y. Also, if the storms prevented life outside wouldn't the people there just get someting like bionic skin (they are the AdMech after all, flesh is weak etc.)?

 

I was thinking that the storms would also give out alot of EM radiation, rendering most non-hardened machines inoperative.

 

They wouldn't have to be underground, they could also be in large domed cities or some kind of void shielding barrier that creates a few pockets that are livable.

 

They could also have large collectors, pulling in the energy from the storm to power the cities.

 

Anyway, its just a thought.

[foto69man]

If you go ice world, then grey/blue for the color scheme would fit very well. Ecspecially since we are a more conservative legion. Like to use everything to our benefit...camo...enviroment...ect...

[minigun762]

If you go ice world, then grey/blue for the color scheme would fit very well. Ecspecially since we are a more conservative legion. Like to use everything to our benefit...camo...enviroment...ect...

 

Ohh I like where you're going with it.

[foto69man]

It just kinda came to me...

 

Also, and this is a strech...but how bout the Legio Glacialis...translated as the 'Frozen Legion.' We are small, but fiercly stubborn legio who uses every resource to win the fight...

 

Just kinda thought it up, what do you guys think? :lol:

[minigun762]

So whats next?

[Lion in the Stars]

In addition there are such things as Hun, Goth and Nightbringer titans

Those are slightly different variations of a Reaver, sacrificing weapons and void fields for speed or vice versa.

 

I may be getting old, but I (vaguely) remember seeing a piece of fluff that said Warhounds weren't counted in the numbers of Titans for a legion. In WW2, nobody counted how many destroyers were out there, they counted the Cruisers (sometimes) and the Battleships. It was assumed that the Navy would supply adequate escort ships for the heavies without having to keep track of them individually. What I'm saying here is that a demi-legion would be a dozen or so battle titans, plus their uncounted (because they're not important) escorting Warhounds.

 

Warhounds fulfill the role of 'torpedo boat destroyer': Dangerous enough to keep the torpedo boats off the heavier ships, but not really a danger to the heavier ships themselves. In this case, Warhounds are armed to remove infantry and armored vehicles from the field, but have a lack of dedicated Titan-Killer weapons (allowing them to fire at units ON the titan the Warhound is escorting!).

 

Reavers are older cruisers or battlecruisers, and suffer from the same problem: Too lightly armed and armored to stand in the line of battle anymore (and taking too long to build/repair), and not fast enough to be a screening unit. This also ties in to the German Commerce Raiders like the Bismark (which is no match for an Iowa or Yamato), and let's be honest: Chaos just raids, they don't really conquer territory. Further, there is long precedent of even STC units getting refitted with other weapons should their primary weapon system become damaged (Destroyer tank hunter versus Thunderer siege tank).

 

Warlords are the equivalent of WW2 battleships or sailing ships of the line: They only exist to bring the fight to the enemy.

 

Emperor and Warmonger Titans are the big boys: German H44, Japanese 798/799 class, or the US Montana class. Bigger, more heavily armed and armored (if possible, the 798/99s were lightly armored in comparison to the other two and to the Iowas), and used for a specific battlefield role. Warmongers are siege/assault units, and Imperators are Command Centers with lots o guns.

[minigun762]

I may be getting old, but I (vaguely) remember seeing a piece of fluff that said Warhounds weren't counted in the numbers of Titans for a legion. In WW2, nobody counted how many destroyers were out there, they counted the Cruisers (sometimes) and the Battleships. It was assumed that the Navy would supply adequate escort ships for the heavies without having to keep track of them individually. What I'm saying here is that a demi-legion would be a dozen or so battle titans, plus their uncounted (because they're not important) escorting Warhounds.

 

Warhounds fulfill the role of 'torpedo boat destroyer': Dangerous enough to keep the torpedo boats off the heavier ships, but not really a danger to the heavier ships themselves. In this case, Warhounds are armed to remove infantry and armored vehicles from the field, but have a lack of dedicated Titan-Killer weapons (allowing them to fire at units ON the titan the Warhound is escorting!).

 

I see where you're coming from but I'm not sure that this is the case.

With Warhounds, they still maintain enough punch to threaten the heavier Titans. In this way they can work as hunter-killer packs or escorts depending on what they need. In this light, I don't see them so much as Destroyers as they are submarines. Working on the outskirts of the battle group's formation as a front line of defense or grouped together and sent after priority targets.

 

The rest of it makes alot of sense though, especially the Reavers = Heavy Cruiser/BattleCruiser/Pocket Battleship idea. They make good bully units or working a support for larger Titans but aren't that great in a straight up firefight.