ForTheLion Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 So i was thinking the other day. The Primarchs (that are still alive) went missing or left around the time of the scouring or a bit later. Hence before the age of Apostasy and the Religious freaks turning the Emperor into a god. So if say in the 41st Milennium...or rather 42nd since we are now 999.M41 , came back: what do u think they would think and do. For one i think theyde be disgusted with the Imperium and the Divination of their father. Secondly theyde Either Unite their chapters or take control of the chapter bearing the original name (DA, SW etc) . They wd reorgasnise the Terran Administrations and go to war. Next question is: assessing m41 who wd they go after? Chaos that broke cadia? Ctan Gods who their father had fought one of them? The Nids who are mysterius and unknown? What ya guys think bout all this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadren Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I think they'll want to go after the Traitor Legions. However. if there's a more pressing threat like a Tyranid invasion, they'll go after that first. I think they'd return to the head of their chapters and call all of their successor chapters to them as well (which I imagine going something like this) Dorn: Ok, I've got all of my chapters together. Guilliman: "Oh cool..hey, wait! How come the black and white ones are more like 6 or 7 chapters?!" Dorn: "Dunno, I haven't really been around." Russ: *snicker* Anyway, that said, I imagine the God Emperor awakening from the Golden Throne as well and a new age dawning for the Imperium as he sets things straight. But that's me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Dorn: Ok, I've got all of my chapters together.Guilliman: "Oh cool..hey, wait! How come the black and white ones are more like 6 or 7 chapters?!" Dorn: "Dunno, I haven't really been around." Russ: *snicker* Brilliant. Sigged if you don't mind :) And I think they would go for the Traitor Legions, with backing from the Eldar and the Phoenix Lords will unite. Then they will rebuild the Imperium. But to be honest, I don't think it will happen, and if it did I don't know what will happen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Child-of-the-Emperor Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Pffft! Imperial Optimists :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical Cricket Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Khan's not coming back until he's finished kicking Dark Eldar butt. Might be a while. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valdenaar Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Though I hate to admit it. The great Rogal Dorn is no longer in the realm of mortals. He now stands at the right side of the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadren Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Though I hate to admit it. The great Rogal Dorn is no longer in the realm of mortals. He now stands at the right side of the Emperor. This can probably be said of all the Primarchs at this point. 10,000 years is a long time. I mean let's face it, we know exactly where Papa Smurf is. It would take the Emperor's return to bring him back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think they'd return to the head of their chapters and call all of their successor chapters to them as well And why should they do that? They were still around when it was decided that the Legions would split up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 Though I hate to admit it. The great Rogal Dorn is no longer in the realm of mortals. He now stands at the right side of the Emperor. Actualt the Golden Throne is Broken and keeps beeing breaking and no one can fix it, its only a mtter of time untill The Emperor dies And why should they do that? They were still around when it was decided that the Legions would split up. 10000 years is a long time :P and well, if we take into account all thats been going on, i dont see a reason why they would not want to unite! Though I hate to admit it. The great Rogal Dorn is no longer in the realm of mortals Thats because Dorn was Blown up while beeing on a spaceship! We know that the Emperor is Alive since 8M and that the Primarchs are his children, so if the Emperor can live 22000 wd it not be logical to assume that his sons can live at least half thus age? And anyway, Khan, Wolf, Lion, Corax, Vulkan are still considered alive as they were never seen to be killed. We have Vulkan whos said to return when the salamanders find his 9 Artefacts. The Lion either sleeping of hiden in the depths of the rock. Khan stuck somewhere int he webway (prolly captured in cammoragh) , wolf ... well hes actualy a mystery and i cant find any sources other that they found his armor, corax left to the eye with the last words on his lips beeing "Nevermore" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think they'd return to the head of their chapters and call all of their successor chapters to them as well And why should they do that? They were still around when it was decided that the Legions would split up. Begrudgingly decided... I think they would see that obviously from the state of things in good ole Milky Way that splitting up the legions didn't exactly help the Imperium take over the galaxy. A corps of legions might though, with the wisdom gained from past experiences :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 if we take into account all thats been going on, i dont see a reason why they would not want to unite! Oh, I can think of a few. The Badab War, the 1st War for Armageddon, the 13th Black Crusade, to name just the most recent and most prominent examples. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I can definitely see them uniting again. The Imperium is in terrible shape and it sounds logical to use a large force to try and fix things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 The Imperium was in an even worse state when they chose to split, so I can't imagine the current situation making them want to unite. Well, Russ and Dorn might, along with the other "pro-Legion" Primarchs, but I can't see Guilliman wanting to reunite. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerelius Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Face people the Emp is failing, the Astro is becoming weaker and Chaos seems to be gatting the upper hand, we've got Nids at the door, The necronsmaking a comeback. Unless either the Primarchs make a return and Vulkan whose the only one one next to Ferrus Magnus whom might have the knowledge to be able the fix that pesky throne, and sence we know ferrus isn't going to put his own head back on and make a comeback Tour, we need Vulkan. Then that still doesn't get us out of the mess that were in fighting a war on all fronts and believe me fellow Loyalist were losing , the Younger (Alien) races are snapping at the dying animal taking our space and trying to take our supremacy. The Necrons are the biggest threat to us as we just can't beat them and the only ones that they really feared was the Old Ones, and despite what we've heard the aren't all dead, realising that they couldn't win this war in the short term they somehow managed to get them to Sleep, and left us to deal with them cause the skinny Eldar can't, but unless the Mechanicum gets off the cllective rears and start coming up with some new tech like the use to before the Heresy, and the a few of the Old Ones turn up to help along with the Vulkan and the rest of the Primarchs, the Imperium will fall as the Cabal predicted. Enuff said Until the Great Lion sits upon his Throne again, Fight On!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Well, assuming Guilliman can't be revived, and that Dorn really is dead (I thought they found his hand on a Chaos spaceship... not his corpse) we have Lion El'Jonson, Leman Russ, Corax, Vulkan, and Khan coming back. That's only 25% of the original Primarchs, but they now command a potentially far larger number of Astartes: the million (or so) of the present era is almost certainly larger than the combined Legions of the Crusade. The question is, how many of the present Astartes would follow the Primarchs? Would later Foundings of Fists or Ultramarines bend knee and follow another Primarch? The HH novels show that Astartes are tremendously influenced even by Primarchs from other Legions. On the other hand, the Ultramarines and any like-minded Chapter might naturally recoil at the undoing of what Guilliman wrought: not so much the size of the units, per se, but the idea of a small number of men commanding so much power once more. Where normal humans are concerned, though, I think you're looking at a completely different deal. Were those five Primarchs to work in concert, they would galvanize Humanity to an incredible degree. Imagine men of such genius and brilliance re-starting the Great Crusade, if even on a smaller, slower scale? I would think that every agency save for the Adeptus Mechanicum would find itself demasculated by the Primarchs literally overnight. What Adept of Terra would try to talk down a Primarch? What Lord Commander of the Guard or member of the Admiralty would refuse to follow them into battle? What threat could the Inquisition pose against a Primarch, each of whom, on average, likely would command tens of thousands (if not more) Astartes and hundreds of warships? I can imagine only two possible results: 1. A new golden age for humanity, wherein the Primarchs smash away the hide-bound dogma, stifling oppression, and narrow vision that has helped cripple mankind for so many millennia. Led by Primarchs capable of conducting unmatched campaigns on a galactic scale, humanity would turn the tide against its many foes. 2. The Daemon Primarchs, who ostensibly outnumber the good guys (Angron, Fulgrim, Perturabo, Magnus, Lorgar, Mortarion), decide to cast their eye upon the mortal world anew, and summon unto them their own Legions and hordes of slaves. Taking advantage of the many other foes the Primarchs must face (Tyranids, Orks, Necrons, for certain; Eldar and Tau perhaps to a lesser extent), they strike the Imperium wherever it is weakest and may perhaps finally slay their brothers during a war greater and more terrible than anything in ten thousand years... Semi-off topic ramble: With that in mind, anyone know just what percentage of today's Astartes are actual Ultramarines descendants? The article on the Second Founding Founding certainly has Legio VIII as siring the lion's share of the Successors (14 out of 35 total). Though it also states those were just the ones we know of, logic follows that the rules of proportionately would follow suit as time went on as well. Going by the numbers given in the Collected Horus Visions, "Fulgrim", "Call of the Lion" and "Fallen Angels", we can deduce that many Legions numbered anywhere from 20-30,000 strong or more by the time of the Heresy, but that the Ultramarines numbered (questionable, I know) roughly 200,000 strong. Given all this, it's not unreasonable to suppose that Ultramarines may very well have accounted for anywhere from 25%-50% of surviving loyalist Astartes. That proportion may very well have continued to this day. Of course, this assumes that we really haven't heard of all of the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, White Scars, etc., descendant Chapters out there (see several cases of new introductions in novels). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2084992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 On number of successors: The 2nd Edition Codex Ultramarines states that more than half of todays Chapters are based on Ultramarines gene-seed, while the current 5th Edition Codex Space Marines states on page 8 that nearly 3/5ths of the current Chapters are based on it. So that would be about 60% of all Chapters. During the 2nd founding there were about 24 Ultramarine Chapters and 28 Chapters from all the other Legions (or 26, if you go by 2nd Edition and don't count the Blood Drinkers and Flesh Tearers as 2nd founding). You also have to remember that the Space Wolves Geneseed is not used at all, and Dark Angels, Blood Angel, Salamanders and probably also Raven Guard gene-seed is only rarely used for new Chapters. That leaves the Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands and White Scars to account for almost all of the Chapters. (All based on Index Astartes or 2nd Edition descriptions) My estimation would be something like this: Ultramarines: 60% Imperial Fists: 10% Iron Hands: 10% White Scars: 10% Salamanders: 2.5% Blood Angels: 2.5% Dark Angels: 2.5% Raven Guard: 2.5% Space Wolves: - Though, since the Imperial Fists are known for their Codex adherence while the Iron Hands and the White Scars have a few issues that may or may not be gene-seed related I assume that the Imperial Fists gene-seed is used more often than theirs. This is all speculation however. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2085025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical Cricket Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 What if Alpharius or Omegon (whichever is still alive) betrays the rest of the Chaos Primarchs? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2085090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadren Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 What if Alpharius or Omegon (whichever is still alive) betrays the rest of the Chaos Primarchs? That is a wild card I have wondered about. Problem is while they were originally doing it for reasons that didn't include the influence of Chaos, and to this day still declare "For the Emperor!" they have become tainted by Chaos. Still, I could see an End Times series with them turning on the other Traitor Legions towards the end, or sabotaging anti-Imperial efforts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2085244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Gentlemen you are forgeting something. What would be the resulte of the Emperor's body dying now. Most Everyone would Like to the see the damge of the HH undone and the Imperium restored to it's mithical Golden Age. But The Emperor said it is only by the most narrow of margins the humanity would survive the darkness to come. The Cabal thought that this path lead only to Chaos' victory in part becasue they are not concerend with the survival of humanity. Infact they all would be much happier if we where dead. You want to beat Chaos You would have to take the fight to where they live and need leaders strong enough to fight these "gods" 1 on 1. You would need a "god" of your own capable of fighting and surviving in the warp; but while you are doing this you need Chaos looking the other way. 10,000 years is a long time to prepare for a war. My thought is not if they came back it's when the come back at the Emperor's side with your armies be ready? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2085388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Proteus Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I wonder what they would do, given that the state of the imperium went from a martial empire, to one made of fanatics. Given the fact that when the primarchs were around, they lead their armies, spread the imperial truth and were content to kick butt and chew bubblegum, what would they do in terms of the inquisition, and the imperial cults of the present date? Not to mention, other ah, changes. Guilliman: *loads boltgun* Calgar: "No my lord, you must speak the litany of loading first" Guilliman: ".....Leman, will you please smack Marneus for me?" -Proteus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2085800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Methinks you forgot the debasement of the Imperium. Anybody claiming to be a Primarch would be shot on sight, presuming the speaker to be either a heretic or a Chaos trick. As far as I know, all the Imperium has left is highly stylized artistic depictions of them; nobody knows what they actually looked like. They're archangels at this point, not real historical figures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2085816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Based on what you've read you think you could pull a gun and cap a Primarch before he beat your butt? I don't think it would be that hard for them to prove their bonifieds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2085818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Based on what you've read you think you could pull a gun and cap a Primarch before he beat your butt? I don't think it would be that hard for them to prove their bonifieds. I didn't say he'd be killed I said he'd be shot. What makes you think a bunch of superstitious Imperials would listen to any proof he offered? Being big and tough isn't a unique quality of a Primarch. More likely he's a trickster sent by the Great Enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2085831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I would assume that a returning primarch would not simply stand before an imperial institurion and anounce that he has to be venerated. They would probably try to stand befor their Chapter first. And I think they would know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2085836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I doubt GW will bring back any primarchs and if they do it will signal a major jump the shark moment. The whole point is that they are mythical figures and although I'm sure plot armor protects all of the ones that disappeared (Corax, Russ, Khan, etc) I doubt they will return. Then again, I also think their idea to write novels about the Heresy was also a bad one as I liked it when that time was more an age of legend and you could use your imagination, but hey I'm not in charge. Even if they do bring some back though, it won't matter as it's not like GW can destory the traitor legions any more than they can destroy the Imperium, they need to keep their players. It's just like how they trumped up the EoT campaign back in '02 and then--nothing happened. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/#findComment-2085892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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