Chapter Master Dave Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 as much as I would want them to come back i really do doubt GW would do it but as thinking what would happen if they did return im not sure due to thhe amount of enemies the imperium has gained over the years Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2085933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutteman Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Guilliman: *loads boltgun*Calgar: "No my lord, you must speak the litany of loading first" Guilliman: ".....Leman, will you please smack Marneus for me?" -Proteus Sigged ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2086065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 The whole point is that they are mythical figures (...) I also think their idea to write novels about the Heresy was also a bad one as I liked it when that time was more an age of legend QFT That is why I have refused to this day to read any of the horus heresy novels. The heresy and the stories about the primarchs are one of my favourite elements if the 40K lore... when they are millennia old legends that are briefly described in the Codices and the Index Astartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2086089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 The whole point is that they are mythical figures (...) I also think their idea to write novels about the Heresy was also a bad one as I liked it when that time was more an age of legend QFT That is why I have refused to this day to read any of the horus heresy novels. The heresy and the stories about the primarchs are one of my favourite elements if the 40K lore... when they are millennia old legends that are briefly described in the Codices and the Index Astartes. Well I have to be honest thats your loss man. Most of them have been excelent stories. Other then some personal disapoint ment at the primarch of my Legion who in truth wasn't look too hot before these books started. I find that the stories have in some was enhanced the myths because now I can see them from both sides. To the People of the M41 the Great Crusade was a golden age because they need it to be. The truth while a bit more gray then the myth is still quite colorful and if GW takes what they hae done here to a logical conclusion you will need to know the truth of these myths to understand the why of things to come. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2086339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 To the People of the M41 the Great Crusade was a golden age because they need it to be. The truth while a bit more gray then the myth is still quite colorful and if GW takes what they hae done here to a logical conclusion you will need to know the truth of these myths to understand the why of things to come. That the novelizations of the legendary mythological heresy could not in any way live up to the brief stories and legends that have been known is precisely why I do not like that GW decided to do them. That has nothing to do with authorial intention on behalf of the Black Library editors and authors. It simply could not have been done. I don't doubt that people reading the novels will then "see the tales of the heresy in a different light", and they might find that interresting. But it is nothing other than removing the distance and wonder of these legendary tales. And I think it is a pity GW went that route. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2086348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 A wise man once told me "Son when you come to the end return to the begining." It has taken me many years to figure it out, and I think where the future of 40k is concerned this truth will be of great importance. In order to see the road out of the darkness sometimes you need to look back and understand exactly how you got there in the first place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2086861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Are you sayingwe must embrace chaos? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2087086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Not at all. What I'm saing is that the Emperor was over 30,000 years old. His primary goal was first and formost the survival of humanity. He always took the long veiw in his plans and everything he did or alowed to happen was working toward this single goal. More then once he has told people he knew that it was only by the narrowest of margines that humanity would survive, not did survive. Everything he did from the making of the Primarchs to how he dealt with each one of them. At this point in the 40k timeline humanity is on the brink of extinction again. nevermore has the danger been so great and the odds so long. All I'm saing is that everything is still going according to his plan. Its just in order to figure that plan out I needed to be able to see exactle how he set this phase in motion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2087284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadren Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 It does seem rather odd that the Emperor never told the Primarchs of Chaos knowing the dangers it could pose and the potential trap. Knowing ones enemy is the key to defeating it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2087513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 A wise man once told me "Son when you come to the end return to the begining." It has taken me many years to figure it out, and I think where the future of 40k is concerned this truth will be of great importance. In order to see the road out of the darkness sometimes you need to look back and understand exactly how you got there in the first place. What does this have to do with anything? The characters of 40k will never "see the road out of the darkness" because the grimdark is what has been and continues to be the selling point of 40k. What Legatus and I are saying is simply that some things are best left mysterious and mythical so as to give them an aura of wonder, reality is always more austere than fantasy and for a fantasy world to try to create a "realistic" depiction of its own mythology seems like a bad idea. In other words, the primarch were better left as vague supermen allowing players to fill in the gaps for themselves rather than being "humanized" into just more characters. Furthermore, the previous state of the mythos left room for personal imagination and interpretation, and now it's all set in stone. Whereas before we didn't know if Garro really stayed loyal now we do, whereas before we didn't know exactly what led Horus to betrayal now we do (and it's a boring deus ex machina reason besides). Not everything should be laid out on a silver platter, but it seems that the current zeitgeist is to do just that and it makes me sad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2087579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Where are we in the 40k timeline? Were at the end. The EOT campaign was conducted right up until the last minute of the 41rst millenia. So where else can GW take it? Theyve pushed the timeline so far is they go another step theyll be in warhammer 41k, wich isnt quite the point eh? So theyll go back to the beggining of it all, the great crusade. Id not be suprised if they did a crusade campaign during the last set of book releases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2087582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Proteus Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 So theyll go back to the beggining of it all, the great crusade. Id not be suprised if they did a crusade campaign during the last set of book releases. That would be kind of hard. If they made this a mainstream change, they would have to change 40k to 30k, and anyone playing space marines from the 2nd founding or later, or the traitor legions for that matter, would find their paint schemes, names, technologies, and other aspects of their armies completley out of sync. Completley aside from a total reversion, how many people have actually made pre-heresy armies? -Proteus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2087601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 So theyll go back to the beggining of it all, the great crusade. Id not be suprised if they did a crusade campaign during the last set of book releases. That would be kind of hard. If they made this a mainstream change, they would have to change 40k to 30k, and anyone playing space marines from the 2nd founding or later, or the traitor legions for that matter, would find their paint schemes, names, technologies, and other aspects of their armies completley out of sync. Completley aside from a total reversion, how many people have actually made pre-heresy armies? -Proteus Nah... theyd just cheapen out and say to use the 40k rulesset for 30k. No big deal :D and all the fluff vets will be up in arms and nerd rage will sweep the nation... and die back down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2087840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Their are several "myths" about the "end times" in 40k fluff. the one most people here are familur with would be the "Wolf Time" of the Space Wolves Legion. The one thing most of these things have in common is they speak about a return of the primearchs and a final battle against the darkness that decides the fate of humanity. As always its done in very vauge terms ECT.. Point is they are now calling this, 40K, "The Time of Ending". It at least sounds like they are gearing up for that last big battle. Wheather the company will actually go through with it your guess is as good as mine but at this point I think they have finnally written themselves out of the "humanity is toast" box they have been sitting in for the last 5 years or so. As for changing the name why? The game is over 20 years old now. The HH is part of the timeline, not a seperate game. Some rules need tweeking to make the overall system fit the time better no biggy. Same is true of the future. You going to tell me you think as monolithic as they universe is that the passage of 1 year would require a whole new set of rules under a new name. If they want to run another campain in the HH or advance the time line even at a slow pace like one year in game is 2 to 4 years real world that fine with me. I think if their smart they will latch on to this tiny glimmer of hope they have created and use it for all its worth.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2088600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranc Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Next question is: assessing m41 who wd they go after? Chaos that broke cadia? Ctan Gods who their father had fought one of them? The Nids who are mysterius and unknown? They would drop everything and go after the Tau! Definately the Tau :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2088754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Arent the tau like the most "non offensive" race as far as the imperium is concerned? i mean theyre filthy xenos but still they seem to be the least hated...and whats up with all that Greater Good stuff? Sounds to me like something fishy is goin on there! Also the End times are here at the end of Millenium 40! Also as far as the story is concerned we are in the M42 right now (source= http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M42 ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2089023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Also the End times are here at the end of Millenium 40! Also as far as the story is concerned we are in the M42 right now (source= http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M42 ) Well, at least as far as Sandy Mitchell is concerned... :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2089028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Valius Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Well you know what happens... i thought it was obvious. We advance through the timeline... the mperors will breaks and the illuminatti sacrifice all the sensei and NOTHING HAPPENS yup and then we all eventually turn to chaos and then we all lead cursed lives :) Lets just say im not one for weird religous conspiracys. I also belive in that thing in science... what's it called again?... whatever it basically says you should belive the one that is most likely to happen. So the primarchs or the Big E don't come back in my eyes and humanity gets owned Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2091406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadren Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Really, they can shift things ahead. You don't have to change the title to Warhammer 41k. 20th century Fox didn't change their name, as has been said. It can still be Warhammer 40k. They can do an End Time series, but it doesn't have to be an end. Primarchs come back, Emperor awakens, and here's what happens: the storyline in the novels takes a dramatic shift. We have new (old) dynamic characters in the Primarchs. The Emperor can still be a distant figure or they can use him. New crusades begin, progress is made again. It becomes a new and exciting time of hope for humanity. Just as another Black Crusade is launched and the Tyranid really begin their push. The threat becomes greater and so do the heroes the Imperium has to call upon. It would be cool, in my opinion, and a shift from the norm. Things really would move ahead. This is my take on it, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2092288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Agreed. If the plot development is taking a long veiw. Then it makes sence for them to want you more familur with characters like the primarchs if you will be seeing them on the table eventuall in 40k Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2092426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 Id kill to see some Emperor stats for the table top :devil: 10s all over the place and an invul save of 2+ :( and he can reroll it 2 times! He has insta death melee and shooting and a large blast of str 10 ap1 ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2092555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadren Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I think the Emperor would be more like 12's and cost 1,000 pts alone. And he'd be worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2092564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galadren Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Furthering the thought on the return, I think it would be an interesting clash, watching it play out as the Emperor and Primarchs return and see the Imperium as it has become, and working to undo that. Not to mention the inevitable resistance as people are told the person they worship doesn't want to be worshipped and all of that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2092674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemFX Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 And so, the Great Wolf, Leman Russ did return from the store, bearing the most holy relics he declared he would retrieve. Lo, for his quest was long and holy, and indeed, did he return from the store with cigarettes, coffee and poptarts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2092727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hashulaman Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Okay, the Emperor has been arudn since the 8th millenia BC, the Primarchs should be able to weather 10,000 years easy. It even says in the HH series they are immortal and cannot die from aging. Though non have died from old age, they all died from combat. The primarchs at least are immortal. If the Primarchs did return, Russ, Khan, Vulkan, Lion, and even guillieman (I think Corax is dead) First thing they'd do is clean up the mess the Ecclisiarchy made. Then they'd turn to the Eye of Terror to finish what Horus started. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/176345-return-of-the-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-2092778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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