Vanir Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Like it or not, it's always been strongly implied that the BA have a vampirical side. That is undeniable. Sarcophagi, long lives, Imperial citizens vanishing without explanation, the rage... it's all there! Read "Angels of Death"! They practicaly shout it from a rooftop! If your going to call Blood Angels Vampires just like that. Then you made as well call Space Wolfs Werewolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Blood Angels are Vampires if you understand them by the origins of the blood hunters, they were isnpired by Vlad 3 the impaler, which was pretty much a Prince that killed his enemies in a very barbaric way(he impaled his enemies trough their backside and them gravity killed them very slowly...), even so he did have the "noble look", so thinking like that you might see the Chapter a derivant from him, not exactly from vampires. My apologies I didn't know. Thank you for the edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guerra Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 IF you read what I wrote, I didn't say they were vampires. Do not twist or generalize my words. I said they had a "vampirical side". They are not vampires in the sense that we know them, of course, but it is undeniable they share quite a few of the traits by which we recognize vampires. Those traits include the major ones, minus the physical weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Ranwulf, so you are aware, it is against B+C rules to swear, even using * or $ to cover up the letters. IF you read what I wrote, I didn't say they were vampires. Do not twist or generalize my words. I said they had a "vampirical side". They are not vampires in the sense that we know them, of course, but it is undeniable they share quite a few of the traits by which we recognize vampires. Those traits include the major ones, minus the physical weaknesses. I have to agree with this. And I think it works well, allowing players who wish to emphasize their vampiric side to do so, while others ignore it as they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Ranwulf, so you are aware, it is against B+C rules to swear, even using * or $ to cover up the letters. IF you read what I wrote, I didn't say they were vampires. Do not twist or generalize my words. I said they had a "vampirical side". They are not vampires in the sense that we know them, of course, but it is undeniable they share quite a few of the traits by which we recognize vampires. Those traits include the major ones, minus the physical weaknesses. I have to agree with this. And I think it works well, allowing players who wish to emphasize their vampiric side to do so, while others ignore it as they see fit. + 1 for this I don't understand how people get so agitated, as far back as I have been into BA (Angels of Death) it has always been this way - that is - each to his own. However, don't want to sound ominious to the vamp haterz but GW are timing the codex while pretend vampirism/twighllight etc is very popular, so they may lean more toward that direction! As long as they don't pout to much hey brothers ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasoroth Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Ranwulf, so you are aware, it is against B+C rules to swear, even using * or $ to cover up the letters. IF you read what I wrote, I didn't say they were vampires. Do not twist or generalize my words. I said they had a "vampirical side". They are not vampires in the sense that we know them, of course, but it is undeniable they share quite a few of the traits by which we recognize vampires. Those traits include the major ones, minus the physical weaknesses. I have to agree with this. And I think it works well, allowing players who wish to emphasize their vampiric side to do so, while others ignore it as they see fit. + 1 for this I don't understand how people get so agitated, as far back as I have been into BA (Angels of Death) it has always been this way - that is - each to his own. However, don't want to sound ominious to the vamp haterz but GW are timing the codex while pretend vampirism/twighllight etc is very popular, so they may lean more toward that direction! As long as they don't pout to much hey brothers :P More like as long as they don't sparkle in the sun light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kael Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 More like as long as they don't sparkle in the sun light lol. :P Captain Kael :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakiq Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 This Twilight thing makes me look at Blood Angels Brother Edward in a new way. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Not sure I dare to come back to this. I still don't think that Lestat's question has been answered. Why, of all the many ingredients which go in to defining the Blood Angels is it the vampire subject which puts some people's backs up? There are never any posts complaining about the misused Christian/Catholic imagery ('I will never use a holy grail or holy shroud on my models'), the Angelic imagery ('Angels do not have wings. I refuse to use them on Sanguinius'), the Italian renaissance stuff, the chivalric knights. My Blood Angels are a combination of all these things, but they are also vampiric, for the same reasons midnight runner covers. This is a clear steer in Angels of Death. I'm imagining that Vampirism like lycanthopy is part of the 40K human genome. They were traits which the emperor incorporated in the super soldiers of the astartes and generally that process is well controlled. In the case of the Blood Angels it is more dominant due to (eg) Sanguinius' own genes or the psychic shock of his death. The BA are effectively cured/recovering vampires, with harmless traits like sleeping in coffins and having fangs, unless the red thirst grips them. All I can find against this is that some members don't like the teen angst version of the vampires. this is such a tiny trivial part of the vampire mythology it hardly means I have to throw the whole lot out..does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Not sure I dare to come back to this. I still don't think that Lestat's question has been answered. Why, of all the many ingredients which go in to defining the Blood Angels is it the vampire subject which puts some people's backs up? There are never any posts complaining about the misused Christian/Catholic imagery ('I will never use a holy grail or holy shroud on my models'), the Angelic imagery ('Angels do not have wings. I refuse to use them on Sanguinius'), the Italian renaissance stuff, the chivalric knights. My Blood Angels are a combination of all these things, but they are also vampiric, for the same reasons midnight runner covers. This is a clear steer in Angels of Death. I'm imagining that Vampirism like lycanthopy is part of the 40K human genome. They were traits which the emperor incorporated in the super soldiers of the astartes and generally that process is well controlled. In the case of the Blood Angels it is more dominant due to (eg) Sanguinius' own genes or the psychic shock of his death. The BA are effectively cured/recovering vampires, with harmless traits like sleeping in coffins and having fangs, unless the red thirst grips them.All I can find against this is that some members don't like the teen angst version of the vampires. this is such a tiny trivial part of the vampire mythology it hardly means I have to throw the whole lot out..does it? Forgive my ignorance but I thought the whole blood drinking was part of the tribe that Sanguinius was adopted into? That is to say that blood rituals were part of his "tribe" which is why it was included as part of the Sanguine cult? As such, wouldn't it make just as much sense to link them to other blood related cults than just vampires? Primarily, I think the vampire image is based on the whole longevity, refined artistic aesthetics and blood drinking which immediately sparks vampirism in most people's minds. The coffin thing also doesn't help with this visual but I digress. However, you can probably draw parallels to ancient Mayan and Incan heritage just as much as the whole east European vampire count heritage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 i believe it's the fact you have all of them together. ok so the catholics drink the 'blood' of jesus, as other groups in the past have. if it was just that, some would still say vampire, but the coffin/sarcophogi sleeping, the thirst which causes them to want to drink blood, the fangs, it's the combination that makes the vampire theme. if it were just a single one of these, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion right now. it's the same concept as in geometry, a square is technically a rectangle, but a rectangle can't be a square. a square has all the elements of a rectangle, plus some, while a rectangle doesn't meet the requirements to be a square. rectangle-goemetric shape with 4 sides, 2 of which are equal in length. square-geometric shape with 4 sides, all of which are equal in length. there fore a square can be a rectangle, but a rectangle can't be a square. vampire-long lived, undead, fanged, blood drinking, handsome, seducers, strong, sleep in coffins BA-long lived, fanged, blood drinking, handsome, strong, sleep in sarcophogi, genetically engineered humans (which could still be considered a form of after life) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 i believe it's the fact you have all of them together. ok so the catholics drink the 'blood' of jesus, as other groups in the past have. if it was just that, some would still say vampire, but the coffin/sarcophogi sleeping, the thirst which causes them to want to drink blood, the fangs, it's the combination that makes the vampire theme. if it were just a single one of these, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion right now. it's the same concept as in geometry, a square is technically a rectangle, but a rectangle can't be a square. a square has all the elements of a rectangle, plus some, while a rectangle doesn't meet the requirements to be a square. rectangle-goemetric shape with 4 sides, 2 of which are equal in length. square-geometric shape with 4 sides, all of which are equal in length. there fore a square can be a rectangle, but a rectangle can't be a square. vampire-long lived, undead, fanged, blood drinking, handsome, seducers, strong, sleep in coffins BA-long lived, fanged, blood drinking, handsome, strong, sleep in sarcophogi, genetically engineered humans (which could still be considered a form of after life) I still have yet to be convinced that BA are indeed fanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrvat Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 There has been an artwork in one of the WD with fanged BA. Not very pronounced but beside otherwise equal "porculan" teeth on that image they stood out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guerra Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 A simple look at the cover of the 3rd ed. Codex or the crew of the new Baal Predator show quite a few vampirical traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 i believe it's the fact you have all of them together. ok so the catholics drink the 'blood' of jesus, as other groups in the past have. if it was just that, some would still say vampire, but the coffin/sarcophogi sleeping, the thirst which causes them to want to drink blood, the fangs, it's the combination that makes the vampire theme. if it were just a single one of these, then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion right now. it's the same concept as in geometry, a square is technically a rectangle, but a rectangle can't be a square. a square has all the elements of a rectangle, plus some, while a rectangle doesn't meet the requirements to be a square. rectangle-goemetric shape with 4 sides, 2 of which are equal in length. square-geometric shape with 4 sides, all of which are equal in length. there fore a square can be a rectangle, but a rectangle can't be a square. vampire-long lived, undead, fanged, blood drinking, handsome, seducers, strong, sleep in coffins BA-long lived, fanged, blood drinking, handsome, strong, sleep in sarcophogi, genetically engineered humans (which could still be considered a form of after life) I still have yet to be convinced that BA are indeed fanged. isn't the sgt. from the space hulk set fanged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I still have yet to be convinced that BA are indeed fanged. Is this convincing enough? http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...nzo_873x627.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Aren't all Marines fanged? Or am I just remembering incorrectly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 My two cents worth: A man's struggle against adversity has always been an indicator of his true worth, his nobility. Having a grievous flaw in a hero is a key element of Greek tragedies and serves to add depth to otherwise perfect beings, to enhance their virtues by giving a contrast via said flaw. The saying there is no light without dark applies here. How you choose to adapt the theme of vampirism into the Blood Angels is up to you. Do you portray the Blood Angels as horrified by blood letting, constantly striving to keep the Black Rage and the Red Thirst in check and struggling to keep their baser instincts at bay (and in so doing taking their place as one of the most valorous chapters through keeping their flaws in check) or do you portray them as a slightly corrupt, less morally upright Chapter, content to turn a blind eye to those who fall temporarily (or permanently) to the Red Thirst (and in doing so tarnishing their reputation as one of the nobler Chapters with the theme of unrestrained vampirism)? Either choice (and the degrees in between) are valid representations of the Blood Angels Chapter and are more or less equally interesting and engaging. It's everyone's personal choice as to how far the theme of vampirism is taken with their Blood Angels but I think it's beyond argument that vampirism is a theme. I agree. Ive always loved the iddea that though Sanguinous was a true exemplar of good, honor, and purity his death diminished his people, and now they must struggle to live up to his ideals with all the weight of an undying hatred and eternal bloodlust on their hearts. It makes them dynamic. Anyone can say "oh looketh there, for there be the paladins of light who shalt save the world from evil". Your not a hero until youve bettered yourself, your just a guy with alot of potential. And not Igotsmeakabob not all marines have fangs, its pretty much SWs and BA- the others just, mostly, have an organ that lets them gain information from their food... the extent of that infromation differs from source to source though. One other thing to note: the Rennaisance is part of the vampire theme, the two are intertwined- the rennaisance was when vampires first really appeared in literature, and the modern ideas of them came from. They work well in tandem, and to deny either really cheapens the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Agosto Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Aren't all Marines fanged? Or am I just remembering incorrectly? I checked the index astartes and the only organ that might produce the fangs is the Ossmodula. The Ossmodula is the organ that release hormones to harded and fuse the bones of the space marine. Only other chapter that I know of that has fangs is the space wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnean Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 i present you: Captain Vlad Wingseer from 1 thing comes another ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasoroth Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 i present you: Captain Vlad Twinclaws from 1 thing comes another ;p You win fifty three and a quarter Internets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnean Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 yay :huh: i made it so i could play wolf lists, untill our dex is out. it still needs a lot of work though :/ more of im here: Captain Vlad Wingseer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I still have yet to be convinced that BA are indeed fanged. Is this convincing enough? http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...nzo_873x627.jpg Merely an artistic interpretation, not enough to satisfy my thirst for enlightenment B) Looking at the model myself, it is not really apparent that the model was done with fangs. Teeth are there certainly but you cannot actually tell that fangs are on the model. I think the artist chose to accentuate fangs rather than the fangs being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 i know you are going to ask for a reference, and unfortunately i can't remember exactly where i saw it, but theres some where that says the BA have fangs. besides, check the famous pic of Mephiston from AoD and you'll see that there are very clearly fangs in the pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkio Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 umm.. people seem to be forgetting that in 1st/2nd edition blood angels in assault on a failed roll would spend the next trun DRINKING the blood of those just slain. and if you were dumb enough to assault them at that point they got double attacks and double stregth if i recall correctly. Mephiston was the worst for this with 8 base attacks. I am afraid my man card might have to be revoked as my significant other sat me down and "forced" me to watch the twilight films. i had been reading this topic before i saw the movies so i actually applied this discussion to my thoughts as i watched the films. Fist of all you need to look past all the teenage angsty BS. Once past that the vampire archetype that the Cullens fill is a totally unique manner of the persona. its a familial unit that has stuck together for the better part of a century assisting what is normally prey to them. they are honorable, and avoid the killing/urning of humans as best they can (resisting the red thirst much?) one of the brothers is actually a "fresh" vampire who has not lived off blood other than humans for a longer period of time then being as the movie puts it the "vegans" of vampirisim who goes crazy whenever the chick gets cut (black rage much?) and the whole mannerisims in which they uphold truth and avoid the standard vampire style slayings every night for feeding. all in all as much as i hate to say this. the vampire archetype, this is NOT saying Edward himself who is a big fuggin pansy, put forth by the movie in terms of morality, desires, and thought processes are the same exemplars that make the blood angels the barely restrained blood thirsty nobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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