IA: The Stonebound

[Ace Debonair]

It's cool, man. I know dreadnoughts need their rest to stop 'em going crazy.

 

I think the Techmarines have been a little lax in my case, since I so rudely rose into consciousness this morning before I should have...

It's true they don't train Techmarines like they used to. *loads bolt pistol* I'll try and have a quick word with them later if I get chance.

 

 

Alternatively, you cuold have great, underground seas which are heated by goethermal vents, perhaps even made unstable and more prone to surge along ancient, worn paths in the forms of rivers, geysers, and other (convenient, yet mildly dangerous) channels that bring heat up towards the crust. How to explain it? The world has multiple, large moons that cause tidal stresses only during the already merciless winters, forcing tha Kagarans to hide from death above and below.

 

Plus, since I'm now aware that you're going for dwarves, they could have watermills and steam-powered machinery which they leave in place until the next season, coming back to do their forging for the approaching thaw. They take food, animals, and clothing down into the dark and come back with a nature-purged populace, steel tools, and a lean, hungry determination to tame the surface once more.

 

Sounds good. Sounds very good. Underground seas explains the tunnel network much better, too.

To my mind, unless your Monastery takes centuries to build and all influence from the Imperium at large has worn away, it's probably not terribly likely that the place would be named in anything other than Gothic. Even allowing another couple of decades probably wouldn't be all that realistic because the initiates are going to be withstanding enormous amounts of information being pumped into their heads, along with psychodoctrination that's supposed to make their former lives seem less important than their new purpose. Plus, the White Scars are known to take initiates and break up their tribal groups, moving them around within the Chapter so that they lose affiliation to their old clans.

 

The weight of tradition is against you here, though I suppose you could argue the point if you have a sufficiently convincing reason. Also, and I don't know if you have, this would probably be a good place to actually use Tolkein's languages to name your fortress if you're going to insist on something not in Imperial Gothic.

 

In which case, I would advise the use of Gabilgathol, or "great fortress" as being something actually in Khuzdul.

 

Alright, point well made. I suppose the Kagaran name would pop up amongst the populations first, then gradually (over a few millenia, say) become a name used by the chapter. Possibly. I'll put some more thought into this.

I'd rather not use Tolkien's actual language, though. Something about doing so just screams "unlikely!" at me. And if I can't believe in my own chapter, how can anyone else? :lol:

 

 

Consider for a moment that we're talking about a Legion which is created, in large part, from the Huns and the Mongols. These are, historically, not terribly nice people who rode rampant across anything in their way and don't have a particularly good reputation when it comes to public relations or dealing with others.

 

Now, that doesn't mean that you can't deviate from that theme in any way, but it does require that you explain to us why they would abandon the ways of their forebears. The White Scars aren't really known for defending in any official source I've ever seen, since it would appear that they would rather find a way to take the fight to the enemy rather than stand behind a wall and shoot. I also don't remember there being any mention of a particular fondness for civilians, which is something of a hallmark for the Salamanders (and one of my reasons for suggesting them). As such, I would argue that a people who can't support and defend themselves, especially in terrain which allows raids, swift strikes, wheeling away to fade into the caves, and then a chance to range across the surface in better times... It's different from the typical view of the bikers and assault troops we're used to, but not so different that it lends itself to the interpretation that you've given us yet.

I see your point, but this is talking about huge numbers of orks with shootas attacking isolated feudal-tech clans of humans who have never seen an enemy like this before. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that any loyalist marines (easy to picture it for chaos, of course) would leave the future of their chapter in such untested hands.

 

Also, what you say is true enough about the White Scars method of fighting. But given the Ka'hagul is underground, options for riding out on bikes are limited. Although I do like the idea that they try and fight back the ol' fashioned Scars way and are forced to shut the gates and endure the siege over the winter.

 

My present solution for all this is as follows:

 

Orks land and wipe out a clan.

Other clans run to the underground fortresses (the native ones), the Stonebound launch a rapid campaign of lightning-attacks.

The Orks are too numerous and widespread to repel in this fashion; they take the attack to the marines.

The Stonebound reluctantly (after a fair few losses) get back in the Ka'hagul and bunker down, still launching occasional sorties and taking losses for it.

They also send forces to the underground fortresses built by the Kagarans. The marines there are fairly successful at repelling the orks, only a couple of forts fall.

Winter comes along and kills most of the Orks who stay on the surface or go too deep into the caves (the Gor'da get them)

Winter ends, the Stonebound go back about their rapid-attacking ways and burn Kagara clean of greenskin presence.

I'll see to that. As for why axes, ask Tolkien. It's his dwarves I'm ripping off.

 

You ought to have them be secretive about proper names, then. No Dwarf in the books ever gave his true name to anyone, only using the Dalish or other languages of men when dealing with them.

Nice. Consider your suggestion taken on board.

 

This is a very good question. It'd be much easier to make them Salamanders, which was one of the reasons I didn't. (if that makes sense?) The other is that I don't remember the last time I saw a Scars successor here on Liber. But I have to admit, the mental image I have of the chapter ties more neatly to Salamanders than Scars. I'll think about this.

 

It's not so much that it's easy as it is that it's the only way that makes sense, barring events leading them down that path. The Salamanders are known for being more tolerant and social with humanity than pretty much any other Chapter, so it's no great stretch to imagine their successors inheriting that trait. As I previously mentioned, in a now-dead incarnation of the main Chapter, I was working this angle too and went through all the arguments in my head before finally dropping the idea for possible use later.

 

Well, I thought my reasoning was sensible behind them protecting civilians in the siege of Kagara. The fact that it wasn't, or at least wasn't presented sensibly, hinders my plan somewhat.

I'll try again with the White Scars geneseed during the re-write. At least I always have the option of altering it later.

 

Ready for a short rant?

 

Enlightening, to be sure. Essentially I have my idea backwards, then - those with a love of armour might be more inclined towards the newer marks.

Better still might be to just omit any descriptions of preferred armour, though.

 

I'm not really certain where you should go on this point, myself.

 

On the one hand, I can understand that it's supposed to be a big part of your Chapter's character that they closely mirror dwarves as often as possible, but it doesn't make sense from the standpoint of warrior-monk zealots who spend the vast majority of their day preparing for war. Perhaps you could make it a part of their spiritual practice, so that a portion of their usual schedule becomes worship-by-forging, creating something lasting and of use in the struggles to come as a way of showing their devotion?

 

I can just picture a temple room full of marines stood by anvils, hammers held high above still-hot metal bars that will one day be axes or bolters.

"Praise the Emperor!"

*simultaneous hammering*

"Glory to Him upon the Golden Throne!"

*simultaneous hammering*

 

Actually, without the comedy, that would be pretty awesome. I'll see what I can do with this.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about mail armor being "better" than the ceramite and plasteel underneath it. If anything, mail is really only protection against bladed weapons in any case, since blunt ones smash against what's beneath it and projectiles go through it.

 

Unless you come up with a great reason for explaining it as anything more than decorative flourishes, I would stick with that angle.

Touché.

 

 

Alternatively, you could work the Sages in by mentioning them as being important to the Kagarans' daily lives, perhaps by making them akin to Imperial Remembrancers. If the Kagarns don't rely on paper for their record keeping because of their frequent need to move suddenly, but they don't want to carry stones around with them all the time, then locking contracts, lineages, and other important knowledge up in the heads of trusted, highly schooled elders would provide a great lead-in for the thematic elements of Librarians, if not the psyker potential. It also gives you a reason for the Grudge Stones, since the Sages would be the keepers of these tales and they could carve them in the deeps when the tribes hide from the winter.

 

Interesting idea. Would the details of that be better in Homeworld, Beliefs or Organisation, though?

Also, the Kagarans could keep primitive grudge stones in the fortress and break any that need breaking when they return to the surface, which could be cause for a celebration. This might tie in the post-battle feasting slightly better.

 

Thank you for pointing out that the first action I described is competely at odds with how a White Scars successor would act. There were two decades where the chapter would battle like the White Scars and Red Sabres, but since nothing important happened I left them out.

 

Their doctrines changed, apparently. I would call that important.

 

Ah, Ace, you've failed to articulate again.

I meant to say, during the first two decades the Stonebound were exactly as you'd expect a Scars successor to be in battle. But since they didn't really do anything noteworthy until Kagara was attacked, I thought it would be needless wordage (is that a word?) to talk about how like the White Scars they were.

 

Actually, I just had an idea. It's a bit... well, weak, though. I could make quick mention that the Red Sabres themselves had adopted a more slow and stubborn attack method, which was then passed on to the Stonebound. But, that bypasses any explanations of "why?" and draws more attention to a chapter other than the Stonebound.

Does anyone else think that sounds like the cheap way out of explaining away tactical differences?

 

So it's nothing to do with the Scars seeing Dreadnoughts basically as prisons for the soul then? I picked that idea up from somewhere on this board. I just wish I could remember where.

 

It's possible that this is true, and I admit that I'm fuzzier on the Scars than I am on most Legions. If so, then it probably ought to remain and factor into the the explanation of their feelings about Dreadnoughts.

I wish I could remember where I picked that idea up, so I could go and check. Either way I'll make certain I've got it right before the re-write.

EDIT: There's a bit about it on the 40k wiki, but not much. I'll keep looking for more stuff.

 

We don't like to talk about it.

 

The speed of drop pods make it that much more apparent just how slow our stumpy little legs make us.

I made the raucous sounds of mirth when I read this. On the positive side, though, very few enemies will get chance to indulge in mockery after Dreadnoughts land on them.

 

The Exonerators just got a renaming and a total restart, though I'm keeping their themes intact and attempting to create the writeup anew so that my intentions are clearer and better organized. I'd also like to point out that I didn't so much take "dwarves" from the writeup as I did "subterranean smiths," which I suppose should have been a hint but didn't automatically make the association for me.

 

Ah, I'm getting closer. Hopefully the re-write gets nearer the mark still, although I suppose you can't forget they're supposed to be dwarves now.

 

 

In AD's defence, I think you're missing his intention to model the Stonebound after dwarves. If you keep that in mind, you'll find that a lot of the decisions he made about the chapter come into better focus. Some additional explaination may be in order in some places, but the "why?" is much more obvious.

 

Hey, thanks for reading, Wildfire. I'm glad you think my work worth defending! But if folks can miss my intention, that says to me that I need to tighten the focus a little and write it up again.

And besides, I take all criticism as a positive. I might also throw a few choice curses around when I have to re-write or cut some of my favourite bits, but it's a chance to improve on both my writing and my knowledge of 40K lore, and that's pretty much what motivates me.

 

 

Also, feral is probably a relative term. You seem to be picturing complete savages, stone age cultures such as early american indians or modern bushmen. I personally would consider Gauls or Celts feral, and they had both fortresses and smithing technology. And historically, the less advanced the culture the more they tend to revere the smith/toolmaker.

 

I would argue that the Gauls and Celts were tribal but fuedal, not feral, though the definition within the BRB seems to indicate that Games Workshop largely considers it a difference in possession of gunpowder. That seems silly and arbitrary to me, since you can have fuedal cultures who haven't ever heard of the stuff.

 

Both fairly valid points, and an interesting potential debate on how to define Feudal worlds. Either way, Kagara will be better as a Feudal world rather than a Feral one, since I can throw some steam-powered-tech stuff in there for fun.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Lysimachus]

Hmmm, Apothete makes some very good points.

 

I suppose the Kagaran name would pop up amongst the populations first, then gradually (over a few millenia, say) become a name used by the chapter.

 

Logical solution to the problem, and probably more or less what happens with most Chapters anyway. I mean, can you imagine the day after Caliban got destroyed, two DA standing there

 

"so, what are we gonna call the place?"

 

"...well... it's like a big piece of rock, isn't it......"

 

 

 

Their doctrines changed, apparently. I would call that important.

 

Orks land and wipe out a clan.

Other clans run to the underground fortresses (the native ones), the Stonebound launch a rapid campaign of lightning-attacks.

The Orks are too numerous and widespread to repel in this fashion; they take the attack to the marines.

The Stonebound reluctantly (after a fair few losses) get back in the Ka'hagul and bunker down, still launching occasional sorties and taking losses for it.

They also send forces to the underground fortresses built by the Kagarans. The marines there are fairly successful at repelling the orks, only a couple of forts fall.

Winter comes along and kills most of the Orks who stay on the surface or go too deep into the caves (the Gor'da get them)

Winter ends, the Stonebound go back about their rapid-attacking ways and burn Kagara clean of greenskin presence.

 

Again, this makes sense to me. Expand the description of the Ork attack in the main to clarify that they tried to do it 'their' way but in the end it was change or die.

 

 

Actually, I just had an idea. It's a bit... well, weak, though. I could make quick mention that the Red Sabres themselves had adopted a more slow and stubborn attack method, which was then passed on to the Stonebound. But, that bypasses any explanations of "why?" and draws more attention to a chapter other than the Stonebound.

Does anyone else think that sounds like the cheap way out of explaining away tactical differences?

 

Honestly? A bit, yeah. Personally, I like the forced change, as long as you explain it properly as you laid out above. Actually, this is why I like the WS geneseed over Salamanders, it makes them different and therefore interesting.

 

 

so that a portion of their usual schedule becomes worship-by-forging, creating something lasting and of use in the struggles to come as a way of showing their devotion?

 

love this idea!

 

 

Kagara will be better as a Feudal world rather than a Feral one

 

good point, and like the tribes>clans, its a really simple swap that clarifies what you mean. Should've seen that one myself...

 

 

Anyway, guess it's still not quite there Ace? :blush: Don't worry, I'm confident you'll get there for the Gauntlet. Keep going!!!

 

IG PC 39/40

Edit: Just checked, it's not, it's 40/40! Hurray, I can stop counting!!! :P

Edited April 20, 2010 by Strike Captain Lysimachus

[Wildfire]

Actually, I just had an idea. It's a bit... well, weak, though. I could make quick mention that the Red Sabres themselves had adopted a more slow and stubborn attack method, which was then passed on to the Stonebound. But, that bypasses any explanations of "why?" and draws more attention to a chapter other than the Stonebound.

Does anyone else think that sounds like the cheap way out of explaining away tactical differences?

 

Easy. Though they come from White Scars gene-seed, the training cadre came from another chapter. However...

 

I see your point, but this is talking about huge numbers of orks with shootas attacking isolated feudal-tech clans of humans who have never seen an enemy like this before. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that any loyalist marines (easy to picture it for chaos, of course) would leave the future of their chapter in such untested hands.

 

Also, what you say is true enough about the White Scars method of fighting. But given the Ka'hagul is underground, options for riding out on bikes are limited. Although I do like the idea that they try and fight back the ol' fashioned Scars way and are forced to shut the gates and endure the siege over the winter.

 

My present solution for all this is as follows:

 

Orks land and wipe out a clan.

Other clans run to the underground fortresses (the native ones), the Stonebound launch a rapid campaign of lightning-attacks.

The Orks are too numerous and widespread to repel in this fashion; they take the attack to the marines.

The Stonebound reluctantly (after a fair few losses) get back in the Ka'hagul and bunker down, still launching occasional sorties and taking losses for it.

They also send forces to the underground fortresses built by the Kagarans. The marines there are fairly successful at repelling the orks, only a couple of forts fall.

Winter comes along and kills most of the Orks who stay on the surface or go too deep into the caves (the Gor'da get them)

Winter ends, the Stonebound go back about their rapid-attacking ways and burn Kagara clean of greenskin presence.

 

Actually, how about this:

Orks land. Stonebound launch lightning raids to slow Ork advance while they press clans to retreat to caves. Ork numbers wear down Stonebound. They're especially hard on bike/speeder units and transports, since that's what's in use most. Stonebound lose equipment that allows lightning raids, forced to retreat to caves.

 

Stonebound begin linking caves together, allowing raids from unexpected areas. This allows the raid style of warfare they prefer, but without fast vehicles. Stonebound come to prefer setting up a series of mutually supporting strong points, linked by a tunnel/trench system which allows rapid redeployment for raids from unexpected quarters.

 

Now you have a Chapter that still relies on raiding, but is primarily infantry based and does so from secure holdings. You even justify a penchant for creating fortifications while still maintaining some link to WS-style warfare.

[Ferrus Manus]

Ferocious on the attack, unwaveringly stubborn in defence, The Stonebound Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes are known best for their grim and unyielding service to the Emperor of Mankind. With skill, unswerving determination and quiet pride, they have fought His enemies and protected His subjects for millennia, and are resolved that they shall continue to do so - evermore.

You don't need the dash at the end. The sentence works fine without it.

 

Alar Baines was the leader of this cadre, but would not claim the position of Chapter Master, insisting that his role was only to mentor the Chapter for a short time. He instead took up the title of Grand Captain.

Not a fan of this bit. Baines is effectively CM in all but name. All he has done is re-title the role. It could work if he wasn't in sole command, if he had a council or something. Otherwise, I'd suggest you just get rid of it.

 

 

++++

 

Sorry for such a small critique, I'll come back and finish it later... I feel guilty doing this with a pile of coursework glaring at me from the corner of the room :)

[Ace Debonair]

Sorry for such a small critique, I'll come back and finish it later... I feel guilty doing this with a pile of coursework glaring at me from the corner of the room :D

 

No problem. Get that coursework in order, the Stonebound will still be here when you've finished.

Matter of fact, if you can bear to hold until after the weekend, I might have the re-write sorted. I use the word might because real life is impeding my progress yet again. :)

 

I'll try and mess with the command structure while Baines is there, then.

And fix the dash.

 

Thanks again!

[Ferrus Manus]

That's cool, I'll wait til next week to finish it then.

[Ace Debonair]

OK, I've hit a problem. Time for me to throw ideas around like they're going out of fashion. :D

 

Particularly the point about the caves is a good one, and I'm kicking myself for not thinking that through right. Kagara will have to have a thin crust, so the caves are warmer than the snow-storm in the winter.

 

Alternatively, you cuold have great, underground seas which are heated by goethermal vents, perhaps even made unstable and more prone to surge along ancient, worn paths in the forms of rivers, geysers, and other (convenient, yet mildly dangerous) channels that bring heat up towards the crust. How to explain it? The world has multiple, large moons that cause tidal stresses only during the already merciless winters, forcing tha Kagarans to hide from death above and below.

 

Plus, since I'm now aware that you're going for dwarves, they could have watermills and steam-powered machinery which they leave in place until the next season, coming back to do their forging for the approaching thaw. They take food, animals, and clothing down into the dark and come back with a nature-purged populace, steel tools, and a lean, hungry determination to tame the surface once more.

 

It's less Tolkein and more abject survival in bad circumstances, but I think that's more appropriate to 40k in any case.

 

Well, I just started re-writing the homeworld. Unfortunately, it's not exactly going well. I'd love to work in the steam-tech stuff, but I'm not sure in what capacity it should be used. Originally I was thinking for electricity, but then I remembered they don't have that on Kagara. (At least, the natives don't.) Possibly it could be used for the forges in the fortresses, to keep the bellows going or what-have you. Then I suppose there's always the possibility of recently-invented primitive steam-powered rifles - prone to exploding and requiring great skill and attention to detail to make properly. Or steam-powered heavy stone gates for the fortresses, operated from within by a system of levers...

 

The problem is, by giving them all that, it makes the Kagaran existence underground much more awesome than their existence during the other three seasons. If the winters are bad enough that they have to go underground to survive, then buildings will be lucky to last more than two years without being destroyed by the violent weather. I'm not sure how portable the steam-tech is, either. Probably a clan's fortress will be more heavily guarded than the surface dwellings, too, though, just to prevent rival clans from looting or damaging any steam-tech or forges or what-have-you. To this end, given that the Gor'da are still in the caves too, perhaps any steam-powered rifles that might exist would stay below the surface too.

 

At least the giant underground seas are not giving me so much trouble. ;)

Does any of what I've written make sense? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? :tu:

[Wildfire]

Yeah, you make sense. Personally I didn't really like the steam/waterwheel stuff. Only in WFB have I heard dwarves being that high tech.

[Ace Debonair]

Yeah, you make sense. Personally I didn't really like the steam/waterwheel stuff. Only in WFB have I heard dwarves being that high tech.

 

I know what you mean, but I think it could work. It'd give the clans something to fight the Orks with, at least, so I can write that part a bit closer to Apothete's ideas of letting the clans fend for themselves.

 

I think I might let the clans fight Orks for a bit, before it becomes obvious to the Stonebound that the future of their chapter could well depend on these people's survival.

It's still giving me headaches, though. Guess I'll see how it shapes up in the next few days. :huh:

[Apothete]

I'd rather not use Tolkien's actual language, though. Something about doing so just screams "unlikely!" at me. And if I can't believe in my own chapter, how can anyone else?

 

What about the use of Khuzdul is so unbelievable?

 

It's just as likely as the corrupt-Latin we all know as High and Low Imperial Gothic, especially if it's being used to give a nod to the source you're attempting to emulate while not outright stealing from the setting. A little sprinkle of it here and there would let those in the know realize what you're doing and provide a possible bit of flavor, while not just bashing the reader over the head with the understanding that we're talking about Tolkeinian dwarves.

 

I see your point, but this is talking about huge numbers of orks with shootas attacking isolated feudal-tech clans of humans who have never seen an enemy like this before. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that any loyalist marines (easy to picture it for chaos, of course) would leave the future of their chapter in such untested hands.

 

Actually, I could see it quite easily.

 

The Iron Hands executed every third person during their cleansing of Contqual, regardless of age, gender, or participation in the uprising. This was after they had put down the Renegades, banished the daemons, and closed a warp portal. Similarly, the Marines Malevolent opened fire with Whirlwind batteries on a trajectory that would likely leave enormous collateral damage in and around a refugee camp just because they wanted to be sure that they would strike the retreating enemies on the far side. Often, the executor of an Inquisitorial Exterminatus order is a Space Marine Chapter, and so we know for a fact that the Astartes are willing to eradicate whole populations while under orders.

 

However, historical and political examples aside, I think that it could be argued that a populace which isn't canny enough to use their home turf to their advantange through hit-and-run raids probably wouldn't seem fit to be Stonebound. Regardless of their eventual changes of doctrine, they are descended from the masters of lightning raids, strike and fade attacks, reconnaisance, and flanking maneuvers. A people who can't practice such things on their own don't seem like such a great place to be drawing one's potential aspirants, now do they?

 

Orks land and wipe out a clan.

Other clans run to the underground fortresses (the native ones), the Stonebound launch a rapid campaign of lightning-attacks.

The Orks are too numerous and widespread to repel in this fashion; they take the attack to the marines.

The Stonebound reluctantly (after a fair few losses) get back in the Ka'hagul and bunker down, still launching occasional sorties and taking losses for it.

They also send forces to the underground fortresses built by the Kagarans. The marines there are fairly successful at repelling the orks, only a couple of forts fall.

Winter comes along and kills most of the Orks who stay on the surface or go too deep into the caves (the Gor'da get them)

Winter ends, the Stonebound go back about their rapid-attacking ways and burn Kagara clean of greenskin presence.

 

While I can see where you're going, how is it that the Orks catch the Stonebound in the open when they're relying so heavily on their speed and maneuverability?

 

Enlightening, to be sure. Essentially I have my idea backwards, then - those with a love of armour might be more inclined towards the newer marks.

Better still might be to just omit any descriptions of preferred armour, though.

 

Well, this is a point on which Games Workshop and I disagree fairly heartily.

 

According to them, those "with a love of armor" will be fascinated with older suits and relics from the past because they're older and technology is always better if it's ancient. In some cases, like starships, plasma weapons, and certain now-lost creations, this is true. However, when it comes to armor, this is patently, monstrously false.

 

The only older mark of armor which could compete with what is being rolled out of the various manufactorum in the modern-day Imperium is the Maximus suit, and that's only equal in terms of protective capability. In every other way, it's inferior.

 

Despite that, there are Chapters which won't touch the Errant suits because they're not four thousand years old.

 

Actually, without the comedy, that would be pretty awesome. I'll see what I can do with this.

 

I agree. Do something with this.

 

Interesting idea. Would the details of that be better in Homeworld, Beliefs or Organisation, though?

 

Also, the Kagarans could keep primitive grudge stones in the fortress and break any that need breaking when they return to the surface, which could be cause for a celebration. This might tie in the post-battle feasting slightly better.

 

Personally, I'm torn between Homeworld and Beliefs. The things which would make them different from a Librarian aren't really battle-oriented, and so this detail doesn't particularly belong under the Organization segment.

 

Also, I would make the feasting be a consequence of breaking a Grudge Stone. You could also tie it in with the White Scar's Great Hunt traditions, except that instead of going off in search of someone who's wronged the Chapter, the Stonebound are exorcising their grudges and maintaining their carven records until someone has spilled the offenders' blood.

 

Actually, I just had an idea. It's a bit... well, weak, though. I could make quick mention that the Red Sabres themselves had adopted a more slow and stubborn attack method, which was then passed on to the Stonebound. But, that bypasses any explanations of "why?" and draws more attention to a chapter other than the Stonebound.

 

Does anyone else think that sounds like the cheap way out of explaining away tactical

differences?

 

I'm sorry, but you already answered yourself in the brieff paragraph above.

 

On the positive side, though, very few enemies will get chance to indulge in mockery after Dreadnoughts land on them.

 

The Techmarines stole a magna-grapple from a wrecked Furioso for me.

 

It's a little harder to laugh when I can harpoon you and drag you within range of my fist.

 

Orks land. Stonebound launch lightning raids to slow Ork advance while they press clans to retreat to caves. Ork numbers wear down Stonebound. They're especially hard on bike/speeder units and transports, since that's what's in use most. Stonebound lose equipment that allows lightning raids, forced to retreat to caves.

 

Stonebound begin linking caves together, allowing raids from unexpected areas. This allows the raid style of warfare they prefer, but without fast vehicles. Stonebound come to prefer setting up a series of mutually supporting strong points, linked by a tunnel/trench system which allows rapid redeployment for raids from unexpected quarters.

 

Now you have a Chapter that still relies on raiding, but is primarily infantry based and does so from secure holdings. You even justify a penchant for creating fortifications while still maintaining some link to WS-style warfare.

 

I like this idea better and it gives you a chance to maintain the fortress-building which seems like such a dwarvish trait.

 

Not a fan of this bit. Baines is effectively CM in all but name. All he has done is re-title the role. It could work if he wasn't in sole command, if he had a council or something. Otherwise, I'd suggest you just get rid of it.

 

I disagree.

 

Baines is not the Chapter Master because he has no intention of remaining in that role, staying only long enough that he can create a proper candidate to take that role. I would suggest that, rather than having a council, that you have a second chosen from amongst the best of the Kagarans who would be groomed to take over when the Red Sabres are preparing to depart. That is, if you're worried about this part.

 

Well, I just started re-writing the homeworld. Unfortunately, it's not exactly going well. I'd love to work in the steam-tech stuff, but I'm not sure in what capacity it should be used. Originally I was thinking for electricity, but then I remembered they don't have that on Kagara. (At least, the natives don't.) Possibly it could be used for the forges in the fortresses, to keep the bellows going or what-have you. Then I suppose there's always the possibility of recently-invented primitive steam-powered rifles - prone to exploding and requiring great skill and attention to detail to make properly. Or steam-powered heavy stone gates for the fortresses, operated from within by a system of levers...

 

I wouldn't spend too much time on the steam-powered gadgetry, mostly for the reasons which you've already brought up. Instead, I would probably use this opportunity to exploit the peccadilos of the Imperial citizenry and say that the steam engines that drive the underground forges, power the gates, and provide the Kagarans with a way to create their weapons are ancient, difficult to maintain, and have religious significance to them. As such, they are only to be used at particular times - winter, in this case - and for the creation of the things which are necessary for their survival. That would mean weaponry, armor, construction tools for rebuilding on the surface,

 

Also, an easy argument could be made that the levels of the water are in flux and that, until the moons align in a certain way and create the tidal stresses that bring water up to the level of the keeps, that the engines don't work. Combine that with the limited availability of combustible fuel brought down from the surface and you don't have year-round occupation and use of the things.

 

Probably a clan's fortress will be more heavily guarded than the surface dwellings, too, though, just to prevent rival clans from looting or damaging any steam-tech or forges or what-have-you. To this end, given that the Gor'da are still in the caves too, perhaps any steam-powered rifles that might exist would stay below the surface too.

 

Make it so that any damage to the steam-machines is heresy, punishable by an incinerative death. If the clan forges are religious sites and they're instrumental to the survival of the race, it's not necessarily unbelievable that the various factions would agree to only fight outside of the keeps.

[Wildfire]

the limited availability of combustible fuel brought down from the surface

 

Another excellent point in favor of simply removing steam tech.

[Ace Debonair]

I'd rather not use Tolkien's actual language, though. Something about doing so just screams "unlikely!" at me. And if I can't believe in my own chapter, how can anyone else?

 

What about the use of Khuzdul is so unbelievable?

 

It's just as likely as the corrupt-Latin we all know as High and Low Imperial Gothic, especially if it's being used to give a nod to the source you're attempting to emulate while not outright stealing from the setting. A little sprinkle of it here and there would let those in the know realize what you're doing and provide a possible bit of flavor, while not just bashing the reader over the head with the understanding that we're talking about Tolkeinian dwarves.

 

Well, for a long time people spoke latin, and there's some distant possibility that just maybe one day the entire planet will abandon their individual languages in favour of a crazy variation thereon. It's not likely, but we'll see how the next 38,000 years or so work out. But the odds of a distant planet colonized by man that is forgotten about and happens to degenerate to such a point where they somehow replace their language with a language written by an author the best part of forty thousand years old that nobody in the real world uses on a day-to-day-basis and never has...

 

I can't quite accept that so easily.

That and High Gothic itself is canon and can't be changed or ignored. Otherwise all my chapters'd speak English.

 

I see your point, but this is talking about huge numbers of orks with shootas attacking isolated feudal-tech clans of humans who have never seen an enemy like this before. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that any loyalist marines (easy to picture it for chaos, of course) would leave the future of their chapter in such untested hands.

 

Actually, I could see it quite easily.

 

The Iron Hands executed every third person during their cleansing of Contqual, regardless of age, gender, or participation in the uprising. This was after they had put down the Renegades, banished the daemons, and closed a warp portal. Similarly, the Marines Malevolent opened fire with Whirlwind batteries on a trajectory that would likely leave enormous collateral damage in and around a refugee camp just because they wanted to be sure that they would strike the retreating enemies on the far side. Often, the executor of an Inquisitorial Exterminatus order is a Space Marine Chapter, and so we know for a fact that the Astartes are willing to eradicate whole populations while under orders.

 

However, historical and political examples aside, I think that it could be argued that a populace which isn't canny enough to use their home turf to their advantange through hit-and-run raids probably wouldn't seem fit to be Stonebound. Regardless of their eventual changes of doctrine, they are descended from the masters of lightning raids, strike and fade attacks, reconnaisance, and flanking maneuvers. A people who can't practice such things on their own don't seem like such a great place to be drawing one's potential aspirants, now do they?

 

Point well made.

 

Interesting idea. Would the details of that be better in Homeworld, Beliefs or Organisation, though?

 

Also, the Kagarans could keep primitive grudge stones in the fortress and break any that need breaking when they return to the surface, which could be cause for a celebration. This might tie in the post-battle feasting slightly better.

 

Personally, I'm torn between Homeworld and Beliefs. The things which would make them different from a Librarian aren't really battle-oriented, and so this detail doesn't particularly belong under the Organization segment.

 

Also, I would make the feasting be a consequence of breaking a Grudge Stone. You could also tie it in with the White Scar's Great Hunt traditions, except that instead of going off in search of someone who's wronged the Chapter, the Stonebound are exorcising their grudges and maintaining their carven records until someone has spilled the offenders' blood.

I'll give that a try and see how it turns out.

 

On the positive side, though, very few enemies will get chance to indulge in mockery after Dreadnoughts land on them.

 

The Techmarines stole a magna-grapple from a wrecked Furioso for me.

 

It's a little harder to laugh when I can harpoon you and drag you within range of my fist.

 

Nice. That's probably their way of making up for waking you up early.

Strange that when I was talking to them nobody would willingly take the blame. Techmarines, eh?

 

Orks land. Stonebound launch lightning raids to slow Ork advance while they press clans to retreat to caves. Ork numbers wear down Stonebound. They're especially hard on bike/speeder units and transports, since that's what's in use most. Stonebound lose equipment that allows lightning raids, forced to retreat to caves.

 

Stonebound begin linking caves together, allowing raids from unexpected areas. This allows the raid style of warfare they prefer, but without fast vehicles. Stonebound come to prefer setting up a series of mutually supporting strong points, linked by a tunnel/trench system which allows rapid redeployment for raids from unexpected quarters.

 

Now you have a Chapter that still relies on raiding, but is primarily infantry based and does so from secure holdings. You even justify a penchant for creating fortifications while still maintaining some link to WS-style warfare.

 

I like this idea better and it gives you a chance to maintain the fortress-building which seems like such a dwarvish trait.

 

Yeah, I can see that working out better myself.

 

Not a fan of this bit. Baines is effectively CM in all but name. All he has done is re-title the role. It could work if he wasn't in sole command, if he had a council or something. Otherwise, I'd suggest you just get rid of it.

 

I disagree.

 

Baines is not the Chapter Master because he has no intention of remaining in that role, staying only long enough that he can create a proper candidate to take that role. I would suggest that, rather than having a council, that you have a second chosen from amongst the best of the Kagarans who would be groomed to take over when the Red Sabres are preparing to depart. That is, if you're worried about this part.

 

I prefer to act on all criticism, so I'll adress this in the re-write.

 

Well, I just started re-writing the homeworld. Unfortunately, it's not exactly going well. I'd love to work in the steam-tech stuff, but I'm not sure in what capacity it should be used. Originally I was thinking for electricity, but then I remembered they don't have that on Kagara. (At least, the natives don't.) Possibly it could be used for the forges in the fortresses, to keep the bellows going or what-have you. Then I suppose there's always the possibility of recently-invented primitive steam-powered rifles - prone to exploding and requiring great skill and attention to detail to make properly. Or steam-powered heavy stone gates for the fortresses, operated from within by a system of levers...

 

I wouldn't spend too much time on the steam-powered gadgetry, mostly for the reasons which you've already brought up. Instead, I would probably use this opportunity to exploit the peccadilos of the Imperial citizenry and say that the steam engines that drive the underground forges, power the gates, and provide the Kagarans with a way to create their weapons are ancient, difficult to maintain, and have religious significance to them. As such, they are only to be used at particular times - winter, in this case - and for the creation of the things which are necessary for their survival. That would mean weaponry, armor, construction tools for rebuilding on the surface,

 

Also, an easy argument could be made that the levels of the water are in flux and that, until the moons align in a certain way and create the tidal stresses that bring water up to the level of the keeps, that the engines don't work. Combine that with the limited availability of combustible fuel brought down from the surface and you don't have year-round occupation and use of the things.

 

Probably a clan's fortress will be more heavily guarded than the surface dwellings, too, though, just to prevent rival clans from looting or damaging any steam-tech or forges or what-have-you. To this end, given that the Gor'da are still in the caves too, perhaps any steam-powered rifles that might exist would stay below the surface too.

 

Make it so that any damage to the steam-machines is heresy, punishable by an incinerative death. If the clan forges are religious sites and they're instrumental to the survival of the race, it's not necessarily unbelievable that the various factions would agree to only fight outside of the keeps.

 

Religion? Why why why didn't I think of that? ;) That's much better than any of the dumb reasons I was experimenting with.

 

Thanks for the C+C. I don't know if I'll have the free time to finish these guys in time for the Iron Gauntlet, but that's all part of the fun. :P

[Apothete]

Well, for a long time people spoke latin, and there's some distant possibility that just maybe one day the entire planet will abandon their individual languages in favour of a crazy variation thereon. It's not likely, but we'll see how the next 38,000 years or so work out. But the odds of a distant planet colonized by man that is forgotten about and happens to degenerate to such a point where they somehow replace their language with a language written by an author the best part of forty thousand years old that nobody in the real world uses on a day-to-day-basis and never has...

 

I think you're meta-analyzing this idea just a little too much.

 

While it could be argued that the world in which the Stonebound would exist is a future derivative of our own, what I was advocating is not the multi-aeon long preservation of a single fictional construct. It's not Khuzdul per se, in the sense that it would be exactly the same thing as passed down over unimaginable time, but the use of tropes and forms from recognizable fiction to support your general theme.

 

Now, you can argue that it wouldn't be effective or that you don't like the sound of it. Hell, you could say that you don't want to use the established lingual forms just because. The argument you just presented is an odd blend of in and out of world reasoning, though.

 

That and High Gothic itself is canon and can't be changed or ignored. Otherwise all my chapters'd speak English.

 

Okay...

 

So what about Fenrisian? The battle cant of the Luna Wolves, which was Cthonic? Glossia, the artificial tongue used by Eisenhorn, Ravenor, and their followers?

 

It's early, so I'm struggling a little to think of other clear examples, but we have easy citations of languages other than Imperial Gothic which are plainly in use and - importantly - incomprehensible enough to outsiders that they can be used as code.

 

Nice. That's probably their way of making up for waking you up early.

 

I'm just waiting on the jump pack I was promised.

 

Religion? Why why why didn't I think of that?

 

Because I'm an idea factory?

 

Thanks for the C+C. I don't know if I'll have the free time to finish these guys in time for the Iron Gauntlet, but that's all part of the fun.

 

No problem on both counts.

 

There's a reason I didn't enroll in the Gauntlet this year.

[Ace Debonair]

While it could be argued that the world in which the Stonebound would exist is a future derivative of our own, what I was advocating is not the multi-aeon long preservation of a single fictional construct. It's not Khuzdul per se, in the sense that it would be exactly the same thing as passed down over unimaginable time, but the use of tropes and forms from recognizable fiction to support your general theme.

 

Now, you can argue that it wouldn't be effective or that you don't like the sound of it. Hell, you could say that you don't want to use the established lingual forms just because. The argument you just presented is an odd blend of in and out of world reasoning, though.

I'd prefer to make up my own language for 'em. I think the 'just because' sums up the why best, out of the arguments you presented. But, there's no harm in me making it similar so it's easier to pick up on.

 

So what about Fenrisian? The battle cant of the Luna Wolves, which was Cthonic? Glossia, the artificial tongue used by Eisenhorn, Ravenor, and their followers?

 

It's early, so I'm struggling a little to think of other clear examples, but we have easy citations of languages other than Imperial Gothic which are plainly in use and - importantly - incomprehensible enough to outsiders that they can be used as code.

Fair enough. Put like that, I have an ever-diminishing number of legs to stand on. :lol:

 

Nice. That's probably their way of making up for waking you up early.

 

I'm just waiting on the jump pack I was promised.

So that's what the techmarines were testing nextdoor yesterday. A word of warning - it's pretty loud.

 

 

Because I'm an idea factory?

Also true. ;)

 

Thanks for the C+C. I don't know if I'll have the free time to finish these guys in time for the Iron Gauntlet, but that's all part of the fun.

 

No problem on both counts.

 

There's a reason I didn't enroll in the Gauntlet this year.

If you take part next year, I'll do my best to be as helpful to your work as you've been to mine. I get plenty of time to practice as well. ;)

[Ace Debonair]

Alright then. :)

 

Here's the main body of the updated stuff.

Apologies for the lack of sidebars, but I am getting seriously tired, so they can wait until later.

Hopefully there's not quite as many faults as last time. There are parts of the IA I didn't change, but hopefully the parts that I did change now fit with them. ^_^

Enjoy!

 

-=-=-=

History:

They called us Stone Warriors,for no weapon in their hands could harm us. Had we come to wage war, I would have thought nothing of it and slain them outright. The name, though, had appeal. We Astartes, bound in armor as enduring as the stones upon which we stood..." Extract from the saga of Alar Baines, Grand Captain of the Stonebound.

 

Created in the Sixth Founding from the gene-seed of Jaghatai Khan, the Chapter that would come to be known as the Stonebound was assigned to the Segmentum Pacificus to combat the threat of increasingly numerous Ork incursions. A cadre of veterans from their parent chapter, the Red Sabres, would train them for a time, overseeing the maturation of their first five generations of recruits. Alar Baines was the leader of this cadre, but would not claim the position of Chapter Master, insisting that his role was only to mentor the Chapter for a short time. He instead took up the title of Grand Captain and created a temporary council of Captains. Baines taught these warriors of the many responsibilities and burdens of command, and began to search for a leader who might replace him when the time came.

 

Baines’ next task as leader of the fledgling Chapter was to find a world that they could call their home. This search lasted for several decades, but soon after his Marines made planetfall on the world known to the Imperium as Kagara, Baines knew that his quest had finally ended.

 

Homeworld:

"In the Kagaran caves at winter, the only light is faith in Him. Darkness surrounds, and we endure."

Oruc Stonebreaker of the Redshields Company speaking to an officer of the Imperial Navy two years after the battle at Kagara.

 

Kagara is a world within the Segmentum Pacificus, close to the borders with the Segmenta Tempestus and Solar. A planet of extremely volatile winters, the people of Kagara survive the merciless blizzards and destructive gales of the season by taking to the underground. Under the surface, Kagara is home to vast, underground seas, heated by geothermal vents. The world has multiple, large moons that cause tidal stresses only during the already merciless winters, causing the raging, roiling waters of the underground to surge along ancient, worn paths in the forms of rivers and geysers. In heading to the underground, the people of Kagara do not escape danger - rather they trade one set of difficulties for another. However, the people have adapted well to the depths. Much of the interaction between clans, such as trade or warfare, continues in the dark, dangerous caverns. An additional threat is the Gor'da, or 'Dark lizards', large, dangerous crested lizards that are easily capable of attacking and killing entire human convoys. During the winter, the Gor'da become more active, scenting both humans and their livestock as potential food sources.

 

In response to the threat of the Gor'da, the Kagarans built hardy stone fortifications, sturdy enough to withstand attacks from the dark lizards. Although the Kagarans have not discovered gunpowder, in recent years the clans have begun to make use of watermills and steam technology, most notably to quickly open and close the sturdy stone doors of their fortifications, and to power their forges. The tidal fluxes that causes the raging waters in the winter are what power these watermills, and during the rest of the year they lay dormant. The watermills are in fact a relic from previous Imperial occupation of the planet, and are held in a reverance bordering on religious fervour. To damage a watermill or forge, even one of a rival tribe, is seen as the greatest of crimes, and is invariably punished with death. Forges are used almost constantly throughout the winter, creating weaponry, armour, and construction tools in preperation of the return to the surface.

 

During the early days of spring, when the food supplies begin to run low, the clans ready themselves to return to the surface. The Gor'da become most active at this point, laying in wait and bearing the chill of being near the surface for the chance of feasting on an unprotected band of Kagarans. Conflict with the dark lizards is almost inevitable, and only the hardiest of warriors survive such encounters - keeping the lizards at bay while their clan make for the surface. There are many tales of legendary heroes amongst the clans, warriors who slew several Gor'da in one battle, armed only with axe and mail.

 

When the Chapter first arrived on Kagara they saw that, for the people of a feudal world, the populace showed great innovation in their lifestyles. Many of the underground tunnels were linked, mostly by natural occurrences, but sometimes by the industrious toil of the Kagaran people. With the arrival of the Astartes, many Kagaran clans tried to fight them off. But after facing the fearsome 'stone warriors' with their unbreakable armour and terrifying weaponry, each clan quickly agreed to meet with Grand Captain Baines, who gave them the honour of providing recruits for the Chapter.

 

Within two decades, the Chapter had built what would become the core of their fortress monastery, deep under the surface of the world, and Baines had settled on a name for the Chapter - they would now be known as the Stonebound. By the end of their twentieth year on Kagara, the Stonebound had adapted to the world marvellously, taking in their first generation of new recruits with acceptable levels of losses.

 

It was half a year later that the Orks came, attacking Kagara and the Stonebound in their thousands. The Stonebound's response was as swift as it was brutal - launching a series of lightning raids on the greenskins, whilst chapter serfs urged the tribes of Kagara to make for the underground. The Stonebound's raids, while effective, were not enough to halt the Ork advance, and soon the numbers of the advancing xenos began to tell, inflicting much damage to the Chapter's bikes and land speeders. The Stonebound were forced back to their half-completed fortress monastery. Grand Captain Baines grew frustrated with the situation - with every attack launched against the Orks, more losses were taken by the marines. It was one of the Captains Baines was training, Jorn Rockhammer, who devised the solution. By creating new tunnels and linking the already vast network of tunnels under the surface, the Stonebound were able to attack from unexpected quarters, allowing them to strike any exposed weakness in the Ork advance. The chapter would set up a series of strong points within the tunnels, allowing infantry-based raids from multiple directions whilst maintaining solid defences that could ward off counter-attacks. Rockhammer's strategy drove the Orks from the tunnels, and mere weeks later, winter came to Kagara, killing as many of the greenskins as the brutal, co-ordinated attacks of the astartes. On the first day of spring, the entire Chapter surged forth, bursting from the caves of Kagara and driving the Orks on the planet to extinction. The people of Kagara were jubilant, and to the surprise of the Astartes, the clans united for a day, holding a great feast 'to remember and honour the dead and the brave'. The clans begged the Stonebound to attend, and Baines reluctantly accepted the honour.

 

When Grand Captain Baines left Kagara to return to the Red Sabres, he made Jorn Rockhammer, Captain of the First Company, the first true Stonebound Chapter Master. Under his leadership, and those who came after him, the Stonebound have waged war against the foul Orks ever since. The Chapter has developed a fierce love of close combat tactics, and in a salute to an ancient Kagaran warrior tradition, each marine carries an axe with him into battle. The axe, to the Stonebound, symbolises the role of a space marine - to brutally and irrevocably destroy the enemies of makind.

 

The Chapter recruits from the clans during every season other than the winter, challenging aspiring warrior youths by flying them to the top of Kagara's highest mountain ranges and forcing them to survive the month-long climb down with no equipment or help. The difficulty of this task is magnified greatly by the bitter cold, as well as lack of shelter, and made even worse by attacks by the ferociously territorial V'or, a species of flying, carnivorous lizard distantly related to the Gor’da and only slightly smaller than a grown man.

 

Beliefs:

"Look after your armour, brother. You will find little else that so effectively keeps the Ork's fangs from your throat."

Attributed to Techmarine Rha’kol.

 

The beliefs of the Stonebound have been heavily influenced by the attitudes of the Kagaran people. In Kagaran society, two abilities are prized over all others; skill in battle and craftsmanship, whether in carving stone or forging steel. From a very young age, all Kagarans are taught these skills and in Kagaran warrior tradition, a man is only truly a man when he has forged his own chain-mail and axe, and is ready to use them in the defence of his people. Both of these customs are held dear by the Chapter. Each Marine learns to lovingly care for his own weapons and armour, but also to create other pieces, statues and sculptures in metal and stone, ornately decorated to commemorate victories or other notable events.

 

Stonebound marines are often easily identifiable even amongst their fellow Astartes, thanks largely to the practice of adorning their ceramite armour with decorative mail links. Marines of higher rank or veterancy are generally more decorated, sometimes with entire hauberks, shoulder coverings or even mail hoods. The practice clearly originates from Kagaran culture, but the Stonebound also say to not show the proper respect to the holy armour of The Emperor's Space Marines would be to invite misfortune and failure in battle. Part of the spiritual practice of the Chapter revolves around the creation of arms and armour, reflecting in miniature the Emperor's creation of His holy weapons, the Space Marines. Techmarines chant praises to the Emperor, Khan, and the heroes of the Stonebound, punctuated by the simultaneous crashing of hammer on anvil. Given that the Stonebound have an almost spiritual relationship with their arms and armour it is unsurprising that Techmarines are figures of some stature within the Chapter. Not only do they take care of more complex repairs, oversee the rituals of forging, and maintain the well-being of the Chapter’s machine spirits, but often Battle Brothers approach them when they have a need for spiritual guidance - linking flaws in the art of forging to a troubled and ill-balanced soul. Techmarines often set penances for those who feel their skills are lacking, and offer the forgiveness of the Emperor and the machine spirits to those who complete said penance. For this reason, the functionality of the Chapter Reclusiam is somewhat altered as well; their roles outside of battle almost solely consisting of the duties usually associated with a Master of the Recruits. However, the zeal and fervour of the Chaplains remains undiminished, and in battle they perform as they would in any other chapter.

 

Kagarans have little use for the written word. Paper is dismissed as too flimsy to survive in the harsh winters, and carved stones are seldom used. As a result, each Kagaran clan has a small council of learned scholars, known collectively as sages. It is their duty to memorize the details of contracts, lineages, and other important knowledge. The only words written by the sages are the details of an enemy or a dishonour that must be avenged by the clan, and these are carved into 'Khu'ra', or grudge-stones. These are carved during the dark months, detailing the vengeance that must be extracted upon the target of the grudge-stone. The breaking of a grudge-stone is a cause for celebration for the Kagaran clans, and is often done with considerable ceremony. Much of this carries over to the Stonebound astartes, their Librarians taking on the iconic name of the Sages. Grudge-stones are still used to record the details of losses or dishonours, and the chapter will fight with unmatched ferocity to avenge a loss recorded on a grudge-stone. In an act echoing the great feast after the siege of Kagara, the breaking of a grudge-stone is a cause for company-wide celebration, and a feast to honour the memories of the dead and the brave.

 

Kagaran tribes are also superstitious about their names, using aliases and codewords when dealing with members of other clans. Kagarans follow the belief that the use of someone's true name by an enemy will rob them of their power, and this belief has also, over time, infiltrated the ranks of the Stonebound. Thus, to outsiders, the Stonebound appear more insular and solemn than many other chapters, seldom engaging in conversation outside of discussing tactics or making reports. They also never give their Kagaran names to outsiders, instead using approximate High Gothic translations of their surnames, and sometimes also replacing their first names with their rank or simply the word 'Stonebound'.

 

The Stonebound, for all their introversion, are fiercely loyal to each other, and to any others whom they feel have earned their respect. These include Marines of other Chapters who have performed feats of daring or courage whilst fighting alongside the Stonebound, and occasionally a courageous Imperial Guard regiment has been able to count the Chapter amongst their most trustworthy allies.

 

One unusual detail of the Stonebound's Chapter Cult is the way in which the Chapter reveres The Emperor, which appears to vary slightly within some of their rituals. Some portray The Emperor as the true first Space Marine, a guiding hero and king whose goal was to reshape the galaxy to his vision. Others place him closer to a true creator – a being of awesome power and wisdom who literally shaped worlds with his Godlike power. Whether or not they truly deify Him is something the Chapter will not be drawn on (unsurprising, given their reputation for introversion), and the few who have spoken to others about their personal beliefs over the centuries have each painted wildly different pictures of The Emperor.

 

 

Combat Doctrine:

"Let the enemy charge like a fool, recklessly taunting fate. In battle, we are as the mountains of Kagara - patient and unbreakable!"

Sergeant K'ahl Oakenshield of the Stonebound tenth company instructing recruits.

 

Since the siege of Kagara, the favoured tactics of the Stonebound have slowly come to more and more resemble those once advocated by Jorn Rockhammer. The Chapter sets up a series of defensive strong points, from which deadly attacks can easily be launched by rhino-mounted infantry, bikes, or land speeders to harry or destroy an enemy force. The Stonebound stubbornly move forward, and enemy counter-attacks, launched at what appears to be the weakest part of the slowly advancing Astartes are often met with sudden, devastating firepower or brutally overwhelmed by assault squads.

 

The Stonebound train in the use of axes rather than knives, echoing the Kagaran warrior tradition. The Stonebound's Assault Squads number among the finest of the Chapter's axe wielders, many of them carrying heavy two-handed blades with which to annihilate their enemies. Although it is not unheard of for such squads to utilize jump packs, these are typically employed only for battles in difficult terrain. Generally, Assault Squads in the Chapter prefer to rely on their Rhino transports to get them into the thick of battle and provide cover.

 

Whilst Orks are still the foremost enemy of the Stonebound, they have also crossed blades with marauding Chaos warbands, put down heretical planetary rebellions, and in more recent times fought against a Tyranid Splinter Fleet believed to be a part of Hive Fleet Leviathan. The tactics used by the Stonebound will change to suit the terrain and the enemy, but one thing is always placed above all others - ferocity.

 

Organisation:

"The Great Khan saw in the tome written by his brother Primarch words of true wisdom. Who are we, then, to doubt those words?"

Chapter Master Jorn Rockhammer of the Stonebound.

 

For the most part, the Stonebound follow the pattern of Chapter organization laid out in the Codex Astartes, fielding ten Companies of around one hundred Space Marines. These Companies are structured into Veteran, Battle, Reserve and Scout formations respectively. Although the Stonebound follow the Codex Astartes, there are still many similarities in their structure with their primogenitor Legion, the White Scars.

 

For example, much like the sons of the Khan from which they descend, the Stonebound always break up recruits taken from the same clan and induct them into different Companies, thereby promoting a strong sense of unity throughout the Chapter - irrespective of which Kagaran clan a Marine comes from, he is now Stonebound, evermore. Also, the White Scars' attitude regarding internment within a Dreadnought continues to hold much weight among the Stonebound, and many Chapter brethren see the hulking machines as nothing more than walking tombs. However, this is not to say that the Stonebound have no Dreadnoughts. Over the course of many centuries, a not inconsiderable number within the Chapter have become more comfortable with the ancient weapons, and see the opportunity to continue to serve the Emperor as one of ‘the Ironbound’ as a great honour.

 

In homage to their parent chapter, the Stonebound named their First Company the Redshields. Members of the Redshields are usually ancient marines; long-bearded, grizzled warriors who combine the wisdom of countless battles with ferocious skill-at-arms. Marines in the First Company paint their pauldrons a deep, rich red and each Veteran is gifted a finely crafted red shield. These shields are commonly decorated with personal heraldry, as well as badges and honours recognizing a Marine’s individual achievements. When a member of the Redshields dies his shield is hung on the outer walls of the Fortress-Monastery; from a distance it appears that the Ka’hagul is anointed in the blood of these heroes.

 

Entry into the 1st Company is marked by a test of skill - a Marine wishing to enter the Redshields must walk alone under the earth until he can claim a tooth from the mouth of a Gor'da. Hunting and stalking the beast in the pitch-dark caverns is difficult enough; and fighting a Gor'da alone is a true test even for the highly skilled Astartes. The badge of the Redshields is therefore a stylized red fang that is carved onto their armour, as well as onto any vehicles assigned to the 1st Company. Each Company Captain in the Stonebound is always promoted from the ranks of the Redshields.

 

Any campaigns outside of the Sector in which the Stonebound are based receive the attention of one of the Chapter's two Battle Barges, the Ni'halm (Black Shield) and the Arn (Axeblade). When on campaign in a Battle Barge, the Stonebound seldom deploy less than two Companies to any engagement, reckoning that overwhelming an enemy with as much force as possible is always the best way to proceed.

 

 

Geneseed:

"You leave your humanity and your family in the past - they no longer matter. You are The Emperor's now, and you are our brother."

Apothecary H'rad Thunderskull.

 

The Chapter descends from the line of the Great Khan, through his sons, the Red Sabres. Like their predecessors, the Stonebound show no signs of gene-seed degradation or mutation, although the aggression and ferocity commonly associated with the sons of Jaghatai Khan are present. However, when not fighting or feasting the Chapter’s Marines have a reputation among Imperial sources for being somewhat introverted, some even claiming that they are stubbornly and intractably ill-tempered. Certainly, it has been noted that the Stonebound are generally quiet around others, preferring to hold muted, short conversations amongst themselves in the Kagaran tongue. Communication between the Stonebound and other Imperial forces typically happens at command levels only, and informal exchanges are extremely rare.

 

Whether these traits are due to mutations in their gene-seed or simply to the influence of Kagaran culture has been widely debated, but the Chapter view such questionings as futile and unworthy of a warrior’s time.

 

 

Battlecry:

"Your enemies are about to embark upon the road to the afterlife. It is only common courtesy to inform them beforehand."

Sergeant Garant Stonehearth of the Tenth Company.

 

The Stonebound do not have a formal chapter-wide battlecry, instead simply roaring wordless defiance in the face of whichever enemy dares to confront them. When engaging an enemy force, Captains are allowed the honour of sounding their chosen battle cry first, followed by a crescendo of answering roars and battle calls from his brother marines.

 

-=-=

 

Thanks for reading this far! Criticism and general bit-by-bit annihilation of my work much appreciated and certainly looked forward to.

It's getting late now, so I am almost certain there'll be a choice selection of errors for everyone to pick on. :)

All shades of opinion valued and welcomed - what do you guys think?

 

EDIT: Now including KHK's suggestions, unless I missed any out. :P

Edited May 3, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Brother Argent]

I should get a good read of this is the next few days, hopefully in time for my comments to be of some use for the Iron Gauntlet. Its funny, you know, I'm actually going to abysmally fail my own challenge... :)

[GhostLegion]

this may sound weird coming from me...but I really have no suggestions on this draft. i can only point out that you do have a couple pretty complicated sentances here...which suggests there may be some grammar issues, but none lept out and kicked me around.

 

I really like the amount of and attention to detail you have here; more to the point, i like that you actually tell the story of your chapter and develop it enough to give an idea as to the character of the marines and the planet they call home. I also like that though you have White Scars as the primogenator chaper, there is not much of the WS flavoring in your chapter....it is nice to see a couple hints at the lineage in the combat doctrine.

 

At this point I would not suggest adding any more to what you have, but refining the idea and reviewing what youve written certainly wont hurt you at all.

 

Nicely done.

[Ace Debonair]

Thanks!

 

It's good to hear that I'm probably on the right track at last. :)

I'll sit down in the next couple of days and try to adress any grammar issues and whatnot.

 

Anyone else have any views? If so, let me have 'em! :P

[Lysimachus]

It's getting better and better with each draft, Ace, good job!

 

There are a few grammatical things, I'll try to have a more detailed look over the next few days; but one thing that stood out as not quite right was this bit:

 

Since the siege of Kagara, the favoured tactics of the Stonebound have slowly come to more and more resemble those once advocated by Jorn Rockhammer. The Chapter sets up a series of defensive strong points, from which fast, deadly attacks can easily be launched by rhino-mounted infantry, bikes, or land speeders to harry or destroy an enemy force. The Stonebound stubbornly move forward, and enemy counter-attacks, launched at what appears to be the weakest part of the slowly advancing Astartes are often met with sudden, devastating firepower or brutally overwhelmed by assault squads.

 

So they attack fast, but stubbornly and ....slowly :)

 

I get what you're saying but I think you need to focus here on how they've gone away from the WS, highlight their defensive nature. They're dwarves (you know what I mean), so they're strong, skilled, determined, stubborn and generally bad tempered... but never fast.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Strike Captain Lysimachus

[Ace Debonair]

So they attack fast, but stubbornly and ....slowly :)

 

Hell yeah! ;)

Ok, that one slipped in under the radar. Should just be 'deadly attacks' rather than 'fast deadly attacks'.

 

But if that's the only problem you can see with it, I think I might (finally) be getting it right.

Took me long enough, eh? :P

[Lysimachus]

Ok, grammar stuff.....

 

History section:

 

They called us Stone Warriors, for no weapon could harm us in their hands

 

This might read better as 'for no weapon in their hands could harm us'?

 

A training cadre of veterans from their parent chapter, the Red Sabres, would train them for a time, overseeing the maturation of their first five generations of recruits

 

Repetition. Simplest answer might be to cut 'training' altogether?

 

He instead took up the title of Grand Captain. Baines' first move was to create a temporary council of Captains, whom he instructed in the ways of leadership and began to evaluate the best candidate to replace him when the time came.

 

These two sentences run a little oddly, and I don't personally like 'instructed in the ways of leadership'.

 

How about:

 

He instead took up the title of Grand Captain and created a temporary council of Captains. Baines taught these warriors of the many responsibilities and burdens of command, and began to search for a leader who might replace him when the time came.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Strike Captain Lysimachus

[Ace Debonair]

All suggested edits made. First section does indeed look rather smoother now.

If that was all of the grammar changes needed, I'm not doing too badly. :cry:

 

Seriously though, if anyone can spot anything wrong with this draft, point it out. I think by this point I can't see the forest for all the trees. :angry:

[Ace Debonair]

Hmm. As much as I like the 'battle at Ivenix' sidebar, The Stonebound don't hold their feasts after every fight anymore.

Should I try to work that back in and keep the sidebar, or explore another angle altogether?

I could, for instance, use instead an extract from that killer saga Octavulg wrote a few pages back. That'd look pretty good as a sidebar.

 

In any case - here's the revised version of the 'Broken Sabre' sidebar, not presented in sidebar format 'cause it looks a little isolated withotu the rest of the text.

 

-=-=

Almost two hundred years after Alar Baines left the Stonebound, the Chapter recieved a garbled distress call from Throka, homeworld of the Red Sabres. The Stonebound hurried to Throka aboard the Battle Barge Arn, but when they arrived their parent Chapter was gone forever. The once-proud Red Fortress had been torn down, it's rubble used to create an enormous star of Chaos. The desecrated corpses of Space Marines were also lain atop the rubble, alongside the remains of once-prized chapter relics and banners. Amongst the dead was Alar Baines.

 

That night, whilst burning the dead, the Stonebound were attacked by a force from the same Chaos warband believed to have ambushed and destroyed the Red Sabres, known as the Rift Lords. Even though they were likewise taken by surprise, the Stonebound were able to quickly dig in and defend their positions. Combined with a ferocious desire for vengeance that more than matched the zeal of their enemies, the Stonebound’s agressive retaliation enabled them to drive the Chaos marauders back; although Imperial historians have pointed out that the Rift Lords were likely worn down severely by the fighting that marked the end of the Red Sabres. This was the first of many battles between the Stonebound and the Rift Lords, and the first engagement against the warband in which the Imperium is known to have triumphed. The Stonebound, though victorious, had taken heavy losses themselves in the conflict, and mourned both their losses and the eradication of the Red Sabres.

 

Although broken-hearted at the loss of his mentor, the Stonebound’s success where the Red Sabres had sadly failed encouraged Jorn Rockhammer, giving him confidence that the changes he had made to the organization and performance of his Chapter had been wise.

-=-=

 

Hopefully this communicates better that the entire warband is not comitted to the battle, and seems less over-the-top. Also, the Chaos side has the right name this time. :P

Any views or opinions welcome and appreciated!

[Donkey Kong]

Time to take a look at your progress, Ace. It's the least I can do for you :wacko: .

 

History

Had we come to wage war, I would think nothing of it and slay them outright.

 

The tenses don't agree, “had we come” is in the past, the latter is in the present.

“Had we come to wage war, I would have thought nothing of it, and slain them outright.”

 

...the Chapter that would come to be known as the Stonebound were assigned to the Segmentum Pacificus to combat the threat of increasingly numerous Ork incursions.

 

Stonebound was assigned

 

Alar Baines was the leader of this cadre, but would not claim the position of Chapter Master, insisting that his role was only to mentor the Chapter for a short time.

 

e instead took up the title of Grand Captain and created a temporary council of Captains.

 

I assume the “e” is supposed to be “He”. “Instead, he took up the title of Grand Captain and created a temporary council of Captains.” There's also the issue that the Captains would more than likely be the best of those brought with the training cadre, but I digress.

 

Homeworld

crested lizards that are easily capable of attacking and killing entire convoys of humans.

 

Personal taste but, I prefer human convoys to convoy of humans.

 

With the arrival of the Astartes, many Kagarans tried to fight, but after facing the fearsome 'stone warriors' with their unbreakable armour and terrifying weaponry, each clan quickly agreed to meet with Grand Captain Baines, who gave them the honour of providing recruits for the Chapter to battle the enemies of the Imperium.

 

Huge. Run on. Sentence.

 

With the arrival of the Astartes, many Kagaran clans tried to fight them off. But after facing the fearsome 'stone warriors' with their unbreakable armour and terrifying weaponry, each clan quickly agreed to meet with Grand Captain Baines, who gave them the honour of providing recruits for the Chapter.

 

who came up with the solution.

 

I find this to be a poorly worded clause. “who conceived the solution” or whatever. “came up with” just sounds too simple.

 

When Grand Captain Baines left Kagara to return to the Red Sabres, he made Jorn Rockhammer, Captain of the First Company, the first true Stonebound Chapter Master.

 

First Captain is not the Chapter Master.

 

Nothing about the climb from the mountain being a pilgrimage the people had to face when being attacked by the Orks?

 

Beliefs

a man is only truly a man when he has forged his own chain-mail and his own axe,

 

“when he has forged his own chain-mail and axe”, “his own” axe is unnecessary.

 

ceramite armmour

 

armour. In fact, I recommend just reading through to see if you find any spelling mistakes. It's always a good idea.

 

spiritual advice

 

I think “guidance” would be more appropriate than “advice”.

 

Combat Doctrine

The Stonebound train in the use of axes rather than knives, echoing the Kagaran warrior tradition. The Stonebound's Assault Squads number among the finest of the Chapter's axe wielders, many of them carrying heavy two-handed blades with which to annihilate their enemies. Although it is not unheard of for such squads to utilize jump packs, these are typically employed only for battles in difficult terrain. Generally, Assault Squads in the Chapter prefer to rely on their Rhino transports to get them into the thick of battle and provide cover.

 

You could include something in the beliefs section about not particularly liking having their feet off the ground. They are, after all, Stonebound.

 

Organisation

As one might expect, these Companies are structured into Veteran, Battle, Reserve and Scout formations respectively.

 

“As one might expect” is unnecessary.

 

However, although the Stonebound follow the Codex Astartes, there are still many similarities in their structure with their primogenitor Legion, the White Scars.

 

However is unnecessary.

 

Entry into the 1st Company

 

First Company, numbers are too informal.

 

Geneseed

Nonetheless, although quiet,

 

Nonetheless is unnecessary.

 

the Stonebound are fiercely loyal to each other, and to any others whom they feel have earned their respect. These include Marines of other Chapters who have performed feats of daring or courage whilst fighting alongside the Stonebound, and occasionally a courageous Imperial Guard regiment has been able to count the Chapter amongst their most trustworthy allies.

 

This would be more fitting in the beliefs section.

 

I've read The Broken Sabre and see nothing wrong with it.

 

Good job, Ace. You've certainly come a long way :P .

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Actually, I just had an idea. It's a bit... well, weak, though. I could make quick mention that the Red Sabres themselves had adopted a more slow and stubborn attack method, which was then passed on to the Stonebound. But, that bypasses any explanations of "why?" and draws more attention to a chapter other than the Stonebound.

Does anyone else think that sounds like the cheap way out of explaining away tactical differences?

 

*Raises hand* "Err... sir?.... I do...." *Blam!*

 

 

To my mind the only real way an organisation would mould it's tactics like that is in response to a particular kind and/or frequently occurring threat.

 

What about when facing an obsessive Dark Eldar Dracon? The Dark Eldar strike so swiftly at so many places at once, the Stonebound change their tactics, using overlapping areas of operation for squads and strike forces, taking strongpoints on the battlefield simply by denying the Dark Eldar a chink in their overall deployment that they can exploit.

 

As an example the Dark Eldar in this context are great for the simple fact of how they operate. You can't match them in speed and precision, so you deny them the benefits of their chosen type of warfare and force them to engage you where you are stronger.

 

Once they begin to use these new tactics regularly after they prove successful they would begin adapting them to other enemies and, if they prove to be viable then they would likely stick with that mentality. Over time this would become a tradition, an ingrained part of the chapter to match their character.

 

This all however hinges on a few key individuals, namely the commanders in charge of that initial engagement and those that subsequently adopt those selfsame tactics, eventually bringing it back to the character and personality of the Stonebound.

 

Did that make sense or have I just waxed lyrical in my sleep-deprived state (sleep-critiquing?)?