Timeline of the loss of the Primarchs?

[Fulgrimschampion]

Hi guys ive just been reading the HH books and as much fluff as i can find, and would like someone to set me straight on the order in which the primarchs were killed/lost or ascended to deamonhood.

Soo far from what ive read and know ive got this....

 

1. Ferrus Mannus - Killed by Fulgrim during the dropsite massacres

2. Sanguinius - Killed by Horus during the seige of Terra abord Horus' battle barge

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

11.

12.

13.

14.

15.

16.

17.

18. Rogal Dorn, i heard somewhere that Dorn was the last primarch to be killed or dissapear or ascend(cant remember what happened to him though)

 

If anyone could help me fill this in id be very greatful

Cheers Fulgrims Champion

[LPetersson]

Here:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Primarch

 

Most of the info you're looking for is here. It was one of the top results when I put 'Primarch' into google...

[Fulgrimschampion]

Cheers, thats pretty helpful however it dosent nessicarily sort out the order in which the primarchs met their fates.

I guess we could put Johnson in 4th as he must of returned to caliban pretty soon after the heresey.

 

Though dose anyone have info upon when several of the primarchs ascended to deamonhood?

 

Fulgrimschampion

[Legatus]

As far as fatalities go, 7 of them are said to have been killed.

 

- Sanguinius (at Battle for Terra)

- Horus (at Battle for Terra)

- Alpharius (allegedly, while the Ultramarines were racing to Terra)

-

- Lion El Jonson (when returning home after the Heresy)

-

- Rogal Dorn (soon after Corax disappeared, wich was shotliy after the 2nd Founding)

-

-

- Night Haunter (at some point after the Heresy)

-

- Roboute Guilliman (about 100 years after the Heresy)

 

 

The fate of the other 5 loyalist Primarchs (Leman Russ, Ferrus Manus, Corax, Vulkan, Jaghatai Khan) is unknown according to the Index Astartes series. Black Library sources may differ.

 

The 6 other traitor Primarchs have all ascended to daemonhood, presumeably as a result of the Heresy or shortly thereafter.

[Dosjetka]

it's rumored that Johnson isn't dead but sleeping in the depths of the Rock, tended to by Those Who See In The Dark (or something like that).

[TheDarker]

Order (at least of what i know):

 

-Ferrus: first in everything :P

-Sanguinius: Followed soon by

-Horus:

 

These three are the easy ones. Alpharious... it´s complicated but i thing it goes after the Heresy

-Lion el Johnson (probably the four)

 

-Russ is stated that he dissapears over 150 years afther the Emperor ascension (or something similar) so...

 

 

-Corax, Vulkan and Jaghatai dissapear, i´m not sure in what order (i think that Jaghatai pretty sure but...)

 

(at this point i´m pretty sure all the traitor primarchs are Daemons)

-Dorn

 

Don´t know when to put Guilliman. We only know that at this point Fulgrim was a daemon...

[Fulgrimschampion]

So were making some kind of order of it, gradually :woot:

 

1. Ferrus Mannus - Killed by Fulgrim during the dropsite massacres

2. Sanguinius - Killed by Horus during the seige of Terra abord Horus' battle barge

3. Alpharius - Killed by Guilliman while the Ultras were on the way to the seige of Terra (reportely killed anyway)

4. Johnson - Mortally Wounded/Killd upon returning to Caliban after the Heresy

 

(Traitor primarchs who reached deamonhood somwhen in this area, not sure what order however, mostly quite soon after heresy im guessing)

 

(We know Guilliman survived apparntly 100 years after the heresey and Fulgrim was already a deamon prince when he mortally wounded Guilliman)

 

(Other primarch dissapearance could range anywhere from just after the heresy to before Dorn from what i know)

 

18. Rogal Dorn, pretty sure i definatly read Dorn oulasted his brothers by a long time

 

Any more help would be much appreciated

Fulgrimschampion

[minigun762]

This reminded me of something, why would any of the Primarchs allow themselves to be killed?

 

Considering you lost the Emperor and you know that the Traitor Legions still have some of their Primarchs alive and well, why would they not put their own survival as a priority.

Not for selfish reasons but purely to help balance the board (so to speak)

[Legatus]

You missed Horus. He was killed mere minutes after Sanguinius. The duel between Alpharius and Guilliman could have happened before or after that final showdown of the Battle for Terra.

 

According to the Index Astartes Imperial Fists "Rogal Dorn outlived many of his brother primarchs and each loss saddened him greatly. Also, as fewer primarchs remained, each began to attract unhealthy respect. With the Emperor on Terra, some distant systems began to deify the Primarchs they encountered. To Dorn, only the Emperor was worthy of this attention and he feared the consequences. However, sacrifice came easily to Dorn...

Soon after the disappearance of Corax, Primarch of the Raven Guard, the Imperial Fists were asked to help against the Black Crusade bludgeoning its way through the Cadian Gate."

 

So he is described as being one of the last, but not specifically "the" last. Perhaps a different source is more specific? He definitely outlived Sanguinius, Lion El Jonson and Ferrus Manus, and Corax disappeared just shortly before Dorns demise. Khan and Russ disappeared as well, though I am not sure at what point, whether before or after Corax/Dorn. THat leaves Vulkan, whose fate has never been described as far as I can remember, and Guilliman, who is said in the Index Astartes Ultramarines to have led the Ultramarines for a further hundred years after the second Founding, before he was finally mortally wounded by Fulgrim.

 

Corax is said to have disappeared shortly after the second Founding in the Index Astartes Raven Guard, and according to the Imperial Fists article, Dorn was soon to follow. Howeverm it also said that Dorn spent two decades after the official second Founding date to reorganise the Imperial Fists, and it also describes him leading the Chapter for some time, so "soon after Corax" does not mean within a few months or so, it is more like 30ish years later.

[Fulgrimschampion]

You missed Horus

 

Horus of course Horus, how did i miss that :)

 

Guilliman, who is said in the Index Astartes Ultramarines to have led the Ultramarines for a further hundred years after the second Founding, before he was finally mortally wounded by Fulgrim.

Rogal Dorn outlived many of his brother primarchs and each loss saddened him greatly.

 

Soo maybe Dorn wasnt the last primarch but mostly likley one of them, and Corax was before Dorn and Guilliman. Yet still cant figure where the other "lost" primarchs fit in, Russ, Vulkan & The Kahn. Or where Conrad Kruz fits into the list.

 

Fulgrimschampion

[UltimateJake]

I thought Alpharius was killed after the Heresy. Because it was meant to show the tactical brilliance of the Alpha Legion as they retreated in a disciplined order from Terra after Horus's defeat. So I think Alpharius died a couple months after the Heresy possibly during the Scouring.

[Legatus]

It is not entirely clear in the Index Astartes Alpha Legion, as the section quickly jumps between different chronological episodes, after the heresy, at the beginning of the heresy, etc.

 

"Even after* the defeat of Horus on Terra, the Alpha Legion continued on unchecked, apparently inventing objectives and missions with absolutely no rebellion as a whole. They moved into the galactic east towards, whether by coincidence or design, the Ultramarines Legion. The Ultramarines had been posted on the Eastern Fringe when the Heresy began and were racing back to the Segmentum Solar**. They were enraged at the treachery of their brother Space Marines and teh Warmaster's connivance to keep them too far away to affect the outcome. It is possible that Alpharius deliberately sought out the Ultramarines and that he wished to confront Roboute Guilliman in a battle and prove the superiority of his tactics."

 

*This suggests that it happened after the defeat of Horus, as the Alpha Legion apparently started to move towards the Ultramarines after the end of the Battle for Terra.

 

**This suggests that it was before the defeat of Horus, as the Ultramarines had learned of the heresy when the Imperial Palace was already under siege and were racing to terra, and the Ultramarines being mere hours away being one of the reasons why Horus decided to lower the shields (in some of the accounts).

[Korraz]

This reminded me of something, why would any of the Primarchs allow themselves to be killed?

 

Considering you lost the Emperor and you know that the Traitor Legions still have some of their Primarchs alive and well, why would they not put their own survival as a priority.

Not for selfish reasons but purely to help balance the board (so to speak)

 

 

I don't think they went out and said "Kay, finish me off." Let's face it: All Primarchs that survived the Heresy were put on the bus, possibily for the sake of balance. If the loyalist Primarchs and the chaos Primarchs would that survived (I'm counting those, who were written to death, like Guilliman, Dorn or Night Haunter), would be still going around, kicking asses, Chaos and Imperium would still be equal. But the other races would face an incredible buttkicking and simply would be crushed. So they had to kill all surviving primarchs off or let them disappear (however, giving most of them the possibility to return! Dorn and Haunter were unlucky there) and the Chaos Primarchs are doing nothing but sitting around on their planets, with the exception of Angron who gets to eat a company of Grey Knights, every thousand years or so.

[Pacific81]

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the Dark Angels, and until we know for sure then its going to be hard to say at what point El'Johnson dies - whether or not El'Johnson was bashing together heads at home, or had some sinister motive (as seen in Angels of Darkness) all the current material has him away from Terra when the Heresy has broken out. I would put his death before the death of Sanguinius, depending on not on whether the DA were on route to Terra during the assault on the palace. Really, I think we are going to have to wait for the final part of the trilogy of HH books to find out for sure..

 

I know this is a bit off topic, but regarding the Ultramarines, I think them being posted on the Eastern Fringe is going to be changed. Collected Visions has the Legion effectively being smashed by the sucker-punch of the Word Bearers, and apparently there might be as many as three(!) books dedicated to the battle of Calth and the battle for survival by the Ultramarines.

[Legatus]

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the Dark Angels, and until we know for sure then its going to be hard to say at what point El'Johnson dies - whether or not El'Johnson was bashing together heads at home, or had some sinister motive (as seen in Angels of Darkness) all the current material has him away from Terra when the Heresy has broken out. I would put his death before the death of Sanguinius, depending on not on whether the DA were on route to Terra during the assault on the palace.

We know what happens, it has been described in the Dark Angels fluff since 2nd Edition. Jonson and Russ learn of the heresy, both race to terra, but they are too late to help. Jonson returns home and is greeted with fire from Caliban's defense batteries.

 

 

I know this is a bit off topic, but regarding the Ultramarines, I think them being posted on the Eastern Fringe is going to be changed. Collected Visions has the Legion effectively being smashed by the sucker-punch of the Word Bearers, and apparently there might be as many as three(!) books dedicated to the battle of Calth and the battle for survival by the Ultramarines.

But Calth is at the eastern fringes. It is part of Ultramar, which is far to the galactic east.

[Korraz]

Isn't Johnson not quite dead, but hold in a stasis, like Guilliman? I remember reading something like this.

[LorgarXVII17]

I would assume all the traitor primarchs still alive achieved daemonhood right after the heresy. Im guess Lorgar was one of the first to ascend, seeing as how his legion was the first to Chaos, and they pretty much started the Chaos Space Marines. Theres no official source that says this, im just saying its likely. Or maybe its just what I like to think...

[Fulgrimschampion]

So its possible that Alpharius was killed before the battle of Terra and his legion retreating in a well orderd manner just showed its strength in depth, and being able to operate without a leader. " There being many heads to the snake"

 

Im guess Lorgar was one of the first to ascend, seeing as how his legion was the first to Chaos, and they pretty much started the Chaos Space Marines. Theres no official source that says this, im just saying its likely. Or maybe its just what I like to think...

 

I was always under the impression that Lorgar was one of the last of the traitor Primarchs to ascende as it is stated in an Index Astartes or somewhere that "Eventually, the atrocities committed by the Word Bearers have allowed for Lorgar's ascension to Daemonhood."

 

Is it included in any of the Horus Heresey novels any of the primarch ascending to deamonhood, or will we have to wait too see that soon as were not fully into the later stages of the Heresey yet??

 

Fulgrimschampion

[Raulmichile]

So its possible that Alpharius was killed before the battle of Terra and his legion retreating in a well orderd manner just showed its strength in depth, and being able to operate without a leader. " There being many heads to the snake"

 

No, Alpharius died (or it seems) in battle with Guilliman after the Heresy. It is in the IA article related to the Alpha Legion

[Pacific81]

It will be interesting to see which way they go with the Dark Angels, and until we know for sure then its going to be hard to say at what point El'Johnson dies - whether or not El'Johnson was bashing together heads at home, or had some sinister motive (as seen in Angels of Darkness) all the current material has him away from Terra when the Heresy has broken out. I would put his death before the death of Sanguinius, depending on not on whether the DA were on route to Terra during the assault on the palace.

 

We know what happens, it has been described in the Dark Angels fluff since 2nd Edition. Jonson and Russ learn of the heresy, both race to terra, but they are too late to help. Jonson returns home and is greeted with fire from Caliban's defense batteries.

 

 

I know this is a bit off topic, but regarding the Ultramarines, I think them being posted on the Eastern Fringe is going to be changed. Collected Visions has the Legion effectively being smashed by the sucker-punch of the Word Bearers, and apparently there might be as many as three(!) books dedicated to the battle of Calth and the battle for survival by the Ultramarines.

But Calth is at the eastern fringes. It is part of Ultramar, which is far to the galactic east.

 

Ah ok thanks about Calth, didn't realise that was its location! Looks like they have just expanded upon existing fluff for that one then.

 

I'm not so sure the issue with Johnson is that clear cut.. I think its less likely now that any more attention is gong to be given to the Angels of Darkness plotline, of Johnson (don't reveal if you haven't read the book and intend to :D )

"Waiting to see which side won"

, but dispite that he came accross as far from a golden boy in Fallen Angels. I for one wouldn't be surprised at all if the series took another nasty little twist in the final part of the trilogy, whenever it is finally written. B)

[randian]

I would assume all the traitor primarchs still alive achieved daemonhood right after the heresy. Im guess Lorgar was one of the first to ascend, seeing as how his legion was the first to Chaos, and they pretty much started the Chaos Space Marines. Theres no official source that says this, im just saying its likely. Or maybe its just what I like to think...

Magnus may have been first, since he ascended pretty much immediately after being teleported away from Prospero.

 

I have conflicting info on Mortarion: one source say he ascended right after Nurgle took his Legion, the other says not until he arrived at the Plague Planet.

 

The same for Angron: one source says he was a daemon at the Siege, the other says not until his retreat to the Eye.

 

Fulgrim was possessed at Isstvan V, though the possessing daemon had to wait until he arrived at the Pleasure Planet for promotion.

 

Lorgar and Perturabo had to wait until they entered the Eye.

[husi2100]

its a long time since i read legion, but isnt there some guy who sometimes play primarch when alpharius dont have time? (not omegon) so is it possible that it was him getting killed and alpahrius/omegon is still alive, and even if one of them was killed the other would still live (and its a big secret that there are two primarchs in alpha legion so the imperium wouldnt know)

[LorgarXVII17]

I was always under the impression that Lorgar was one of the last of the traitor Primarchs to ascende as it is stated in an Index Astartes or somewhere that "Eventually, the atrocities committed by the Word Bearers have allowed for Lorgar's ascension to Daemonhood."

 

Is it included in any of the Horus Heresey novels any of the primarch ascending to deamonhood, or will we have to wait too see that soon as were not fully into the later stages of the Heresey yet??

 

Yes, now that I think about it, I too remember reading about Lorgar being one of the last to acsend, or something similar to that. Just goes to show you that you can never listen to LorgarXVII...

 

Another thing, what happened to Russ again? He left into the eye of terror, right? He and the White Scars primarch are 2 of the few who are supposedly still alive. Its very unlikely, but these are primarchs were talking about. Russ will come back and ask for a beer. (Not so sure about the Khan...)

[Fulgrimschampion]

Another thing, what happened to Russ again? He left into the eye of terror, right? He and the White Scars primarch are 2 of the few who are supposedly still alive. Its very unlikely, but these are primarchs were talking about. Russ will come back and ask for a beer. (Not so sure about the Khan...)

 

Yeah Russ and the Khan both dissapeared, aparetly Russ went off to pursue the traitors, or find a cure for the emperor and he said he would return. The Khan followed the Dark Eldar into the warp and is lost apparently.

 

Dont have much info on the two other "lost" Primarchs though, Corax and Vulcan, or the times at which any of them dissapeared. Corax was meant to of dissapeared not long before the second founding and the only Primarchs we are sure of that lived beyond that are Guilliman & Dorn soo i guess Corax could be put near the end of the list

 

Fulgrimschampion

[Fulgrimschampion]

Couple more questions sorry!!

 

1. Was Alpharius "killed" by Guilliman as the Ultramarines were racing to the seige of Terra or after the seige and the death of Horus had taken place?

 

2. How long did it take the traitor legions to flee to the Eye of Terror, and did they reach it in any specific order

 

3. Was the Iron Cage battle between Iron Warriors & Imperial Fists before the Iron Warriors retreated to teh Eye of Terror or had they already entered it but returened for this fight?

 

Thank

 

Fulgrimschampion