Wraiths of Darkness

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I just had an idea... Why don't we use both?

 

That way, what your worried about (how it looks on Chaos) and what I'm worried about (accurate depictions of the colors themselves) are both met.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

What I don't understand is why you're so eager to replace the chaos image with the new painter? The new painter is good, but it doesn't have the same range with metallic effects that the old one had and the chaos one works very well with the metallic effect that Heru has come up with.

 

If I hadn't lost the old image for my Blazing Sons that Dazzo did up for me, I'd still be using it despite it being an old painter image without the new shaders.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I never meant for the Wraiths to be metallic... On any level... :devil:

 

I need to write something up soon. Hmmm....

[Heru]

I never meant for the Wraiths to be metallic... On any level... :)

 

I need to write something up soon. Hmmm....

GHY meant in reference to the silver trim.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

GHY meant in reference to the silver trim.

This is true, that is what I was talking about. Frankly I like it.

 

To explain, the reason I prefer the metallics and paler colours is that they seem to fit the imagery brought up with the name better.

 

A Wraith to me is very cold and you don't get much colder than metal. The expression 'giving them cold steel' in reference to killing another man with a sword or later a bayonet is very much in keeping with the attitude I'm ascribing to here.

 

The Wraiths are cold, calculating traitor mercenaries. Bold colours just seem incongruous with the theme.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

GHY meant in reference to the silver trim.

This is true, that is what I was talking about. Frankly I like it.

 

To explain, the reason I prefer the metallics and paler colours is that they seem to fit the imagery brought up with the name better.

 

A Wraith to me is very cold and you don't get much colder than metal. The expression 'giving them cold steel' in reference to killing another man with a sword or later a bayonet is very much in keeping with the attitude I'm ascribing to here.

 

The Wraiths are cold, calculating traitor mercenaries. Bold colours just seem incongruous with the theme.

 

Cold? I see where you are coming from, but the Wraiths have always felt... faded, almost, like they don't quite... project? Onto the realm that the rest of the universe does. Like true Wraiths, in a sense... but at the same time, they are very real and can be very lethal.

 

Cold? Maybe. I equate it more to poor Captain Barbosa of the Black Pearl before he was released from his curse - more like they don't really feel at all.

 

As you can tell, a lot of this isn't very clear to me. But that's no excuse, I just haven't been putting enough effort into finding how to best convey that.

[RagingGriffon]

Alright, I just read these guys for the first time. I decided to look at some decent work instead of feeding trolls...

 

I like the idea that your guys keep coming back from the brink of destruction. You said they operated in the Eye, and I thought, "Man, the Black Legion would eat these guys..." Then you mentioned they got their tails handed to them by the BLs. Cool!!

 

I like that they are mercenaries and assassins. However, I would caution the use of "assassin." It conjures up the ideas of a single guy sneaking in and killing someone. Maybe use the term "strategic target specialists." Ie: they find their ways into a PDF's centralized power plant, and they annihilate it and leave. No one know's they were there except for the people that hired them.

 

900 Marines is a lot. That is just shy of a full Chapter. I would think there would be SOOOO many people trying to take them out just like the Black Legion did. Especially Chaos. The join us or die factor is high with the Ruinous Powers (praise be their names!). I see your guys as a small force. 250-350 specialized BAMFs. A Battle Barge might be a bit too big. Something quick and hard hitting would be better (maybe an ancient ship that has allowed them to survive for so long...)

 

Last, how does your Chapter feel about cultists/acolytes? I could see your guys having a few peeps that infiltrate planets, do recon, get contracts, etc.

 

All of this is my opinion of course, so feel free to take what you like.

 

-RG

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Thanks for the kind words :lol:

 

I see what you are going for with the small amount of Wraiths, but the Wraiths generally have a good chunk of the Chaos forces everywhere asking for their help.* 250 to 350 would not cut it. They need a couple hundred just to fulfil the majority of requests, not to mention reserves and the force set aside in the Shroud Stars.

 

I did mean for a few of them to be assassins, and I'll have them be a seperate section of about twenty Astartes that are constantly rotating in and out of the Wraith's fleet.

 

You do have a good idea, however, and it was more of/closer to/ a better description of what I was thinking of anyways.

 

The join or die thing - That's why I made them hidden. You can hire them, and you can meet a representitive, but you won't find their fleet to destroy them. All the times that they've nearly been destroyed have been where the number of Astartes dropped to around 10 to 12% of the entirety of the Wraiths at the time.

 

The Wraiths don't utilize non astartes. At all. Everything is done by Astartes, for Astartes ;)

 

*This sounds immensely arrogant, but I've tried to balance that out by showing that it's only because only the Wraiths know how really weak the Wraiths are.

[RagingGriffon]

Sorry, then. I must have missed the point of the Wraiths then. So, they are weak, but they feign strength to absorb smaller warbands and use them as the "meat" of their attacks? However, the actual Wraiths are the ones that pull all the strings? Am I getting this right?

 

Well, I am going to use what I said (but tweak it a little) for my Thousand Son warband. They are going to be Material Space agents for their Primarch, and they are "strategic target specialists" to push along his plethora of schemes. But I digress.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Sorry, then. I must have missed the point of the Wraiths then. So, they are weak, but they feign strength to absorb smaller warbands and use them as the "meat" of their attacks? However, the actual Wraiths are the ones that pull all the strings? Am I getting this right?

 

If you're weak, but feign strength to absord other warbands then surely you become strong?

[Aqui]

Sorry, then. I must have missed the point of the Wraiths then. So, they are weak, but they feign strength to absorb smaller warbands and use them as the "meat" of their attacks? However, the actual Wraiths are the ones that pull all the strings? Am I getting this right?

 

If you're weak, but feign strength to absord other warbands then surely you become strong?

 

Only in so far as they are strong before a battle. Attrition takes hold (i.e. casualties etc) and the Wraiths then have to get more troops..... ad infinitum

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Only in so far as they are strong before a battle. Attrition takes hold (i.e. casualties etc) and the Wraiths then have to get more troops..... ad infinitum

 

How is this any different from a normal chaos warband? You're explaining away their uniqueness here.

[RagingGriffon]

When you say weak, what do you mean? Physically weak? Like they have a curse? I just don't think you did a good job of explaining it, because 900 Marines and that huge of a fleet seems strong to me. I haven't been privvy to all of the discussion around your warband, just reading what is on the first page. So, some of the people that frequent this thread might have gotten this, but I did not get this from the first post.

[Heru]

The Wraiths don't utilize non astartes. At all. Everything is done by Astartes, for Astartes :lol:

So how does that work? I mean you need non-Astartes to crew your ships, and attend your Marines needs (like helping them get their armour on before a battle, cleaning the toilets, bringing them food etc etc). Even Renegades need normal humans to do things that Astartes would be wasted on.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Wow. Way to not be present when it's needed most.

 

Weak as in lacking numbers. They appear to be able to fulfil any request, do any job, whatever it takes so long as you pay. They seem to have the numbers to do anything, when the truth is that they are barely scraping up the required amount to mantain that illusion.

 

Contary to popular belief, you don't need non astartes. They're generally accepted as needed (because I can't spell necessary :lol: ) because even traitor marines have that inbuilt arrogance that says "putting on your own armour is beneath you". The Wraiths don't accept outsiders, as in anyone not a Wraith - this obviously extends to non astartes.

[Heru]

Contary to popular belief, you don't need non astartes. They're generally accepted as needed (because I can't spell necessary :) ) because even traitor marines have that inbuilt arrogance that says "putting on your own armour is beneath you". The Wraiths don't accept outsiders, as in anyone not a Wraith - this obviously extends to non astartes.

You are going to need WAY more than 900 then.

 

:: Wonders which poor Chaos Marine will get toilet cleaning duties ::

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Contary to popular belief, you don't need non astartes. They're generally accepted as needed (because I can't spell necessary :cuss ) because even traitor marines have that inbuilt arrogance that says "putting on your own armour is beneath you". The Wraiths don't accept outsiders, as in anyone not a Wraith - this obviously extends to non astartes.

You are going to need WAY more than 900 then.

 

:: Wonders which poor Chaos Marine will get toilet cleaning duties ::

Do you flush the toilet after you use it? Do you clean up after yourself? Same concept. Some will be needed and specificly trained for operating the fleet with those various tasks (everything from coordinating deployments with the ships computer to reloading the main guns - The Soul Drinkers beginning of Hellforged has a good description of what it would be like) but they have a very "You take care of you" approach to it.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

That's all well and good when you're at home, but when you're dealing with a large group, the rules change drastically.

 

In the military each soldier is required to keep his gear squared away and to clean up after himself. However, there are always the men who are required to dig and clean the latrines, construct shelter, lay communications wire and basically do any other mundane task that needs doing. Each soldier is capable of completing these tasks but it's not always efficient to force everyone to do something that a few can do.

 

Also, Power Armour requires help to don, so far as I know, and Chaos Marines don't strike me as the 'helpful' type.

 

The Wraiths could easily have purposely blinded, deafened slaves. Cut out their tongues and put slave collars on them (the type that kill the wearer if they try to escape) and your problem is solved.

[Ace Debonair]

The Wraiths could easily have purposely blinded, deafened slaves. Cut out their tongues and put slave collars on them (the type that kill the wearer if they try to escape) and your problem is solved.

 

Nice.

Not sure how a Chaos marine would communicate with someone blinded and deafened, though.

EDIT: Unless they were all psychic, but that's a bit much.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Ferrus Manus]

Cut out their tongues and put slave collars on them (the type that kill the wearer if they try to escape) and your problem is solved.

Playing too much Fallout 3 lately? :D

 

Jokes aside, it is a good idea.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

The Wraiths could easily have purposely blinded, deafened slaves. Cut out their tongues and put slave collars on them (the type that kill the wearer if they try to escape) and your problem is solved.

 

Nice.

Not sure how a Chaos marine would communicate with someone blinded and deafened, though.

EDIT: Unless they were all psychic, but that's a bit much.

Especially considering they can all already teleport... :)

 

Even I'm not that crazy.

 

Yeah, but how are they going to do anything if they're blind and deaf? I think that would just make the latrine more messy.

 

Do Marines even have/need a latrine? Thay don't even eat half the time (unless your a SW or similar, which isn't the case).

[Ferrus Manus]

Do Marines even have/need a latrine? Thay don't even eat half the time (unless your a SW or similar, which isn't the case).

I kinda think we're getting to stuck on this metaphor. But still, I haven't a clue - but I'd assume so,I mean they were human originally.

 

RE: the slaves, why not just have them under oath to never look directly at one of the Wraiths, under pain of death? I think that would work, it would keep me in line anyways.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Do Marines even have/need a latrine? Thay don't even eat half the time (unless your a SW or similar, which isn't the case).

I kinda think we're getting to stuck on this metaphor. But still, I haven't a clue - but I'd assume so,I mean they were human originally.

 

RE: the slaves, why not just have them under oath to never look directly at one of the Wraiths, under pain of death? I think that would work, it would keep me in line anyways.

The Fleet has no Wraiths in it. Brilliant. I amaze myself once again.

 

Erm, for those of you who didn't get what I meant with the "no Wraiths in the fleet", basicly there are slaves, and they do their job, but they never see the Wraiths. It's like they aren't even there. But if you slack off, or begin to organize anything, or something like that, your corpse will be found.

 

In acutality the Wraiths are there, but most of the time they're in the places the slaves aren't allowed to go.

[Heru]

That works. :)

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

That works. :D

I got Heru Talon to agree with me on something! Yes!

 

The bad news part 1 - It didn't involve color schemes

 

The bad news part 2 - It doesn't really affect the IT