What are you waiting for?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i use Shrike as a example because the TS use their (at this point) frowned upon practices to defend a xeno library and target of their allies against their allies. if this isnt clear enough on how the TS view the use of their abilites then i dont know what is.

 

what takes place on Propero is enough proof of the corruption of the TS and their disloyalty to the Emperor. They had specific orders on how to use their powers, defied them, and then used them on the Wolves, Sisters and Custodes who were acting under orders of the rightful authority at the time (as Horus had modified their orders from arrest to wip out).

 

and while Magnus said he would bear the guilt for their actions, he was aided by his Sons, and they knew of what their punishment was to be for failure. They carry the burden as much as Magnus does, who in his arrogance thougth that failure wasnt really an option (in my opinion)

 

I think, if Wyrdmake had survived, he would have been judged by the Emperor or a appointed official, but cleared foe the his use of his powers due to the threat the TS presented and the outcome of the invasion.

 

WLK

[Mr. Sandbot]

i use Shrike as a example because the TS use their (at this point) frowned upon practices to defend a xeno library and target of their allies against their allies. if this isnt clear enough on how the TS view the use of their abilites then i dont know what is.

 

what takes place on Propero is enough proof of the corruption of the TS and their disloyalty to the Emperor. They had specific orders on how to use their powers, defied them, and then used them on the Wolves, Sisters and Custodes who were acting under orders of the rightful authority at the time (as Horus had modified their orders from arrest to wip out).

 

and while Magnus said he would bear the guilt for their actions, he was aided by his Sons, and they knew of what their punishment was to be for failure. They carry the burden as much as Magnus does, who in his arrogance thougth that failure wasnt really an option (in my opinion)

 

I think, if Wyrdmake had survived, he would have been judged by the Emperor or a appointed official, but cleared foe the his use of his powers due to the threat the TS presented and the outcome of the invasion.

 

WLK

 

The practices were primarily frowned upon by the Death Guard, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists and Raven Guard. The Blood Angels, Emperor's Children, Night Lords, Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Salamanders seemed more than supportive since they all took librarians into their legions. If anything its more so controversial than frowned on (unless your approaching from a Wolves' perspective, then I can agree).

While the library was a xeno's one, it was still a lost colony of humanity and burning the books that made up their society would be nothing more than censorship to an entire planet. I'm on the side of the Thousand Sons in taking the moral high ground and protecting a planet's past to ensure more long term compliance with the planet (aka, censorship really doesn't get you anywhere).

I can agree that the battle of Prospero was sadly proof of their corruption for consorting with daemons. But the order in and of itself was flawed. The 41st millennium shows us this by having Librarians being seen as common place amongst the Space marine chapters. Just to further the point, the best fighting force against Chaos is also a chapter filled with well trained psykers. I believe the Imperium would be rather lost without harnessing psychic talent. I'm pretty sure the Wolves too would make a passionate testimony on how beneficial it has been to have rune priests at their side (if they could only admit Rune priests are the same as librarians).

If we look in examples of history too, shunning minorities for something they are born with (for example race) is the closest we can get to how morally wrong a decision such as "no psychic powers ever" is for people born latent with psychic abilities.

 

In all honesty, I respectfully disagree with you WLK. Wyrdmake defied the Emperor's decree of "never again employ any psychic powers again". Such a decree has no ambiguities and no exemptions just because of how final it is. The Thousand Sons were indeed a great threat, but there were other options Wyrdmake could have done such as stalling Ahriman long enough for his pack brothers to disrupt his concentration. Nonetheless, Wyrdmake still employed his powers against Ahriman.

This same situation happened in Battle for the Abyss where Imhotep used his powers to save everyone from the daemons of the warp. Imo, just because the foes were a great threat and the ultimate outcome was a positive one, it still does not excuse his use of his powers.

[Rain]

When all is said and done, the Thousand Sons never have been described as really "evil" in any appreciable way. All of the other traitor legions want to either torture a lot of people, kill a lot of people, cough on a lot of people, or whatever else, but all the Thousand Sons want and have ever done is knowledge. Hell, Ahriman has never even accepted Chaos, so that really doesn't seem so bad. I mean the equivalent of what happened to the Thousand Sons is if we rounded up the faculty of our universities and handed them over to some drunk redneck with an axe who "don' li-yek their kay-end wit all their fanc-eh thinkin". The survivors would then be charged with treason.

 

Seriously, it's kind of absurd that Tzeentch is even a "dark god" I mean the other gods are all benefactors of things that are either crimes (killing, beat) or generally considered bad (viruses, cancer), while Tzeentch, is the god of curiosity and knowledge, kinda doesn't fit.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@mr. sandbot: we are allowed to disagree, thats what makes us civilized.

 

but as fun as these things are, unless more information is presented i feel we are going to stuck in our differing positions. so until next january mr. sandbot!

[Mr. Sandbot]

hahaha agreed Wolf Lord Kieran. Its always great fun reading your debates, but I didn't think it would be even more fun being a part of them.

 

Just another reason to wait for Prospero Burns with eager anticipation.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

hahaha agreed Wolf Lord Kieran. Its always great fun reading your debates, but I didn't think it would be even more fun being a part of them.

 

Just another reason to wait for Prospero Burns with eager anticipation.

 

trust me, i love these things, but there is only so long they can continue with such limited information.

 

I CANT WAIT!

 

WLK

[DaemonPrinceDargor]

I want to see a book about the Blood Angels by ADB or Abnett.Dan has done enormous justice to Sanguinius in Horus Rising and i just love ADB's style of writing.I also want to see a book dedicated to the World Eaters and (i cant believe i say this) the Ultramarines.

 

Of the ones already announced,i cant wait for The First Heretic and Prospero Burns.

 

 

Cheers! :lol:

[Corsair]

I want to see a book about the Blood Angels by ADB or Abnett.Dan has done enormous justice to Sanguinius in Horus Rising and i just love ADB's style of writing.I also want to see a book dedicated to the World Eaters and (i cant believe i say this) the Ultramarines.

 

Of the ones already announced,i cant wait for The First Heretic and Prospero Burns.

 

 

Cheers! :lol:

 

A book with something gribbly EATING Ultramarines, maybe ;)

[Rik Lightstar]

I want an Iron Hands novel, just so I can read about Ferrus Manus getting taken down HARD from another viewpoint (slow-motion replay style).

[Ashe Darke]

I know a lot of people would hate it but I'd like to see a book solely about the Emperor. It would cover the stretch of his life showing key events in his life and that of humanity that he was involved with, probably ending with him meeting Horus for the first time or their parting at the end of Ullanor. I'd place it just before the siege if it done in one book, or if it is done in stages, before the Emperor teleports up to the Vengeful Spirit.

 

Obviously you don't reveal too much but you'd gain an insight as to why he cares so much about humanity, what he has done for them, his personal views and awareness of the chaos gods as well as covering his relationship with Horus, to really add gravity to the betrayal.

 

Having thought about it, it should be sliced in during the parts leading up to the teleporting moment. Kinda like in Fallen Angels, you alternate chapters but you have it so there are parallels between the pairs. That would be awesome.

[Corsair]

I know a lot of people would hate it but I'd like to see a book solely about the Emperor. It would cover the stretch of his life showing key events in his life and that of humanity that he was involved with, probably ending with him meeting Horus for the first time or their parting at the end of Ullanor. I'd place it just before the siege if it done in one book, or if it is done in stages, before the Emperor teleports up to the Vengeful Spirit.

 

Obviously you don't reveal too much but you'd gain an insight as to why he cares so much about humanity, what he has done for them, his personal views and awareness of the chaos gods as well as covering his relationship with Horus, to really add gravity to the betrayal.

 

Having thought about it, it should be sliced in during the parts leading up to the teleporting moment. Kinda like in Fallen Angels, you alternate chapters but you have it so there are parallels between the pairs. That would be awesome.

 

I think they couldn't do a book from the perspective of the Emperor, simply because it would make concrete so many things that are currently questionable about the Big E and what he really was.

 

I think a book from the perspective of Malcador or one of the custodes or something would accomplish the same thing (always with the Emp, witnessing the good bits) while not ruining the mystique of the Emp or Horus (if it was from his perspective, the Primarchs would by definition have to be written as far less impressive than they currently are, since they are essentially just his kids).

 

Writing from the perspective of a bodyguard also allows you to have some mystery about certain actions, cryptic dialogue, foreshadowing, etc, etc, and also removes the nightmare of having to take into account E's far-seeing abilities when it comes to plot twists or surprises; more importantly, it would give you an intimate look at the Emperor while still maintaining the 'shiny gold awe' vibe we get otherwise - a book saying 'Tim, Emperor of Mankind, got out of bed and thought to himself "think I'll have a game of cricket with Horus today," before putting on His golden boots and conquering 15 star systems.' would have way less impact than those same actions from the perspective of someone close to Him.

 

Plus if it was about Malcador or one of the Custodes, the book could be called Emperor's Little Helper ;D

[Ashe Darke]

Yeah I can see that working. I'd not really thought about it being from his perspective so thanks for bringing up that point to clarify.

 

The fluff talks about him guiding the human race and stories about him helping them design warp capable crafts or something would be cool. Obviously not that exactly but you get the picture. But the main point would be emphasise his rise to power, the empire he helped building over thousands of years and his relationship with Horus, just as it is about to be torn down and destroyed, to show how big a tragedy it is. I think the final book(s) need something like that to hammer home the point. It's the end of a glorious era, one that will never be seen again and I think how huge a moment when it is all lost should be emphasised.

 

If done in a similar manner as The Last Church I think it could work. It's probably not gonna happen but still it would be cool in my opinion.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

that soudns like a interesting idea guys and one i would love to see.

 

WLK

[Inquisitor Engel]

Signus Prime. That will be a hell of a story. Regardless of how much the Blood Angels current background bothers me, Sanguinius is awesome as are the pre-Heresy Blood Angels. His presence on Murder was a highlight, for sure.

 

I'd like to see the Siege broken a couple of books, one from the Loyalist POV (preferably with a heavy emphasis on the Fists and the White Scars, since the Blood Angels will most assuredly get their own book) and one from the Traitor POV.

 

I also can't wait for the Night Lords book. I'd quite enjoy an Imperial Fist/Night Lords double-bill given the history between their Primarchs.

[Monstra Sumus]

I am eagerly awaitng the Signus Prime novel.

 

Even more so the events after the Heresy because theres FAR too much fluff for them to end it with the Horus Vs Big E.

 

I want a dedicated book to the Ultramarines because if it wasn't for them the Imperium would have been snuffed out completely.

 

The single most anticipated event for me is a book concerning the Iron Cage incident. That will just be magnificent and the writer had better do it justice.

[Lord Adras]

I'm waiting on a book about Eskrador. Hopefully the writer can put it in a way that doesn't tell us too much more about the fate of the primarch though.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Something about the Salamanders would be nice, wouldn't a book on the Ultramarines be after the Heresy, unless we want to see a bunch of Space Evangelica, er, Word Bearers take on the whole of the biggest legion and delay it for a while, though it would be interesting to see one during the scouring from the Ultramarines veiw, perhaps whereever they faught the Alpha Legion, can never remember the name, also, perhaps some books focusing on the deaths/disaperence of the primarchs