Age of Darkness

[Marshal Rohr]

Would be nice if we could settle the survivors of Istavaan III question. Maybe we will get more hints as to who the 8 astartes that accompanied Malcador to see the Emperor.

 

On a side note..... The Emps. Fists had 7 years to work on the Palace ............. Fail!

 

Im sorry at what point did the traitors sack the palace and burn it to the ground? Oh they didn't? So what are you talking about? Istvaan III survivors and the Loyalists losing at Terra all in one post..tsk tsk... you may need to see a doctor.

 

 

+++++++

It'll be good to finally know why the Ultramarines took 7 years to get from Ultramar to Terra. As long as they were doing something.

[Aqatone]

It'll be good to finally know why the Ultramarines took 7 years to get from Ultramar to Terra. As long as they were doing something.

 

Low on petrol, had to make a stop. Found chaos in the petrol station. Initiated a purge.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

On a side note..... The Emps. Fists had 7 years to work on the Palace ............. Fail!

 

Yes, the Imperial Fists did have seven years and still did a poor job.

 

The Siege of Terra is a horrid piece of fluff if you compare it to anything vaguely like reality. 3 Legions & a Castle versus 5 Legions & Daemons, the baddies are not all actually trying to breach the walls, only WE & IW, and yet they are about to crush it within 3 months.

 

Drivel. :)

 

Afterwards Rogal Dorn goes to kill or capture Perturabo. Probably because he was so cut at being written as such a loser Siege Master. Rogal Dorn suffers from depression and apparently insanity.

 

1 Legion and a Castle versus 1 Legion.

The Imperial Fists get slaughtered and bailed out by Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines.

 

Hang on, if 2 focused Legions and Daemons with 3 Doing-other-stuff Legions can smash a seven years+ prepared Bastion of humanities defence with 3 focused Legions defending it, and all within 3 months....

How on Earth can 1 Legion get hammered *to the point of annihilation* by 1 Legion & Castle?

 

I can believe the Iron Cage incident mathematics. Which makes Dorn's actions ridiculously stupid and so all but impossible for someone who has been conditioned with decades of Siege experience and been used as the pinch hitters once another Legion had tied up the enemy. If he was a siege master *as per fluff and equal to Turbs* there is no way he'd do that. Even after the Emperor was interred onto the Throne.

That is like someone who is a sword master choosing to run onto a sword or a mechanic trying to stop a Prime Mover from rolling forwards. :huh:

 

So why are defences as good as mud when Dorn is running the show *with seven years+ of preparation* and then when Turbs is in charge *with perhaps a few years of preparation during the Scouring*, they become amazing again. :)

 

Have I made my feelings on these inconsistencies known clearly enough? :lol:

 

+++

 

I am looking forwards to more HH stuff ~ I have just started reading A Thousand Sons, and I like it a lot. ^_^

[Ian MacKay]

Yes, the Imperial Fists did have seven years and still did a poor job.

 

The Siege of Terra is a horrid piece of fluff if you compare it to anything vaguely like reality. 3 Legions & a Castle versus 5 Legions & Daemons, the baddies are not all actually trying to breach the walls, only WE & IW, and yet they are about to crush it within 3 months.

 

 

Have I made my feelings on these inconsistencies known clearly enough? :)

 

+++

 

I am looking forwards to more HH stuff ~ I have just started reading A Thousand Sons, and I like it a lot. :P

 

On topic: After the last Heresy short story collection, I'm very much looking forward to this new one. The tidbits and fill-in that we got was perfect. Fleshed out a couple of chapters and answered the question of the Lectitio Divinitatus.

 

Off topic: I think in trying to compare the Palace to the Iron Cage you and possibly others have made a error.

 

The Palace was first and foremost, a palace. A place of government, pomp, circumstance, and research. The Iron Cage was made for one reason only: To prove to Dorn he wasn't the best.

 

It's like trying to compare Buckingham Palace to say, Fort Sumpter. The fort was build to kill anything getting close by any means necessary. Buckingham is a residence and museum, a lot of what I imagine the Palace to be. There's only so much even a siege master can do to make a residence fortified to withstand a massive attack.

 

So in one case you have a place retro-fitted to be as defensible as possible and one built to purpose.

 

And don't forget the Chaos fleet controlled the airspace over Terra. As we learned in WWII, that means a hell of a lot. Modern wars prove it even more. Orbital bombardments would have really given the traitors a chance. Dorn just wanted to get as close as possible to Perturabo to kill him if possible. And Dorn was almost insane with grief over letting the Emperor get nearly killed and placed into the throne. All the stuff from IA talks about how Dorn needed to be cleansed in fire with the secondary goal of reducing his Legion to something he could break into Chapters.

[Ashe Darke]

Regarding the survivors of Istvaan III,

well we know Loken is still alive, both Dan and Aaron have been saying this for ages

. I like to think Tarvitz didn't die, I went back and re-read the passages and there is talk of bombs over head which could be incoming bombs OR it could be them bombing the surface where you used to be because you're happy sat in an underground hanger. It gives no specifics and if

Loken can survive the situation he was written into

then I imagine Tarvitz can as well. We're only left with that idea because 'bombs overhead', when you don't know about the bunker yet (first heard about in Fulgrim), makes you think he died, then when you hear about the bunker it will then split people into groups. Those who say 'yeah he clearly survived in there' and others who were like 'no, that doesn't matter, he's dead remember' when that opinion was formed with only half the information.

 

That said I have no idea how they're going to get off the planet, unless that hanger just happens to be filled with ships they can fly

[Aqatone]

I hope Torgaddon survives!

 

If Loken is now written to survive, the only plausible reason I can see how he survives is that Tarvitz drags him into the hangar where Ancient Rylanor is guarding and fly away in a ship located within.

[Brother-chaplain Astador]

On a side note..... The Emps. Fists had 7 years to work on the Palace ............. Fail!

 

Yes, the Imperial Fists did have seven years and still did a poor job.

 

The Siege of Terra is a horrid piece of fluff if you compare it to anything vaguely like reality. 3 Legions & a Castle versus 5 Legions & Daemons, the baddies are not all actually trying to breach the walls, only WE & IW, and yet they are about to crush it within 3 months.

 

Drivel. :D

 

Afterwards Rogal Dorn goes to kill or capture Perturabo. Probably because he was so cut at being written as such a loser Siege Master. Rogal Dorn suffers from depression and apparently insanity.

 

1 Legion and a Castle versus 1 Legion.

The Imperial Fists get slaughtered and bailed out by Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines.

 

Hang on, if 2 focused Legions and Daemons with 3 Doing-other-stuff Legions can smash a seven years+ prepared Bastion of humanities defence with 3 focused Legions defending it, and all within 3 months....

How on Earth can 1 Legion get hammered *to the point of annihilation* by 1 Legion & Castle?

 

I can believe the Iron Cage incident mathematics. Which makes Dorn's actions ridiculously stupid and so all but impossible for someone who has been conditioned with decades of Siege experience and been used as the pinch hitters once another Legion had tied up the enemy. If he was a siege master *as per fluff and equal to Turbs* there is no way he'd do that. Even after the Emperor was interred onto the Throne.

That is like someone who is a sword master choosing to run onto a sword or a mechanic trying to stop a Prime Mover from rolling forwards. :huh:

 

So why are defences as good as mud when Dorn is running the show *with seven years+ of preparation* and then when Turbs is in charge *with perhaps a few years of preparation during the Scouring*, they become amazing again. :P

 

Have I made my feelings on these inconsistencies known clearly enough? :lol:

 

+++

 

I am looking forwards to more HH stuff ~ I have just started reading A Thousand Sons, and I like it a lot. ^_^

 

It wasn't a 'castle' it was 'continent spanning' and built ontop of the Himalayas I beleive? Or the alps.

 

And to quote Lexicanum on the Iron cage incident (which I beleive is a quote from one of the HH artwork books)

 

Without his customary caution and planning, Dorn led his men into the heart of the Iron Warrior defences. The battle should have favoured the treacherous trench-fighters, but the Imperial Fists endured. They countered every ambush and fought their way out of every trap. Rogal Dorn was a colossus who personally turned back attack after attack. Ammunition expended, brothers fought in half-flooded trenches with combat knives, giving and expecting no quarter. Eventually it became apparent that the Iron Warriors could not finish them. For all their skill and ferocity, the Iron Warriors lacked the faith to make the ultimate sacrifice that victory demanded. While they paused, the Ultramarines intervened; Guilliman had decided that Perturabo's destruction was not worth the loss of Rogal Dorn and had brought his Chapter to drive off the Iron Warriors.

[Innus Bade 9]

Here is the description from The Black Library website.

 

After the betrayal at Isstvan, Horus begins his campaign against the Emperor, a galaxy-wide war that can lead only to Terra. But the road to the final confrontation between father and son is a long one – seven years filled with secrecy and silence, plans and foundations being formed across distant stars. An unknown history is about to be unveiled as light is shed on the darkest years of the Horus Heresy, and revelations will surface that will shake the Imperium to its very foundation...

 

May 2011 • Softback, 416 pages • ISBN 9781849700368

Author - Unknown

Edited by Christian Dunn

 

Here are a few cover shots.

 

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2010/07/Age1.jpg

 

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2010/07/Age2.jpg

[Captain Idaho]

Who is that under his boot?! It could just be a normal Marine, but size comparison seems to suggest he is comparable to Hours...

[Reyner]

Just looks like a generic Imperial Fist to me.

[awfulawful]

Just looks like a generic Imperial Fist to me.

 

Of course. Who else would be courageous enough to stand up to Horus?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The one Imperial Army soldier whose name's been dropped from canon. . . Ol. . . Olind. . O-something. Help me out here, guys.

[Sons of Horus]

Ollanius Pius <_<

 

I love the cover art although the proportions are a bit off and Horus' pose is a bit awkward too.

[Walter Payton]

Yes, the Imperial Fists did have seven years and still did a poor job.

 

The Palace never actually fell though, so their preparations were not all in vain. Dorn's boasts that it was 'impregnable' were silly though.

 

3 Legions & a Castle versus 5 Legions & Daemons,

 

2 Legions. The White Scars were defending the Lions gate spaceport. And the traitors had several Titan Legions (the Imps had one), millions of traitor guard and armour pieces. And don't underestimate daemons. Because they can be summoned and re-summoned, they are effectively without number.

 

yet they are about to crush it within 3 months.

 

Except they aren't, that's the whole reason Horus dropped his shields. Dorn designed and built a fortress which he held until he was relieved. Doesn't seem like a poor job to me.

 

Afterwards Rogal Dorn goes to kill or capture Perturabo. Probably because he was so cut at being written as such a loser Siege Master. Rogal Dorn suffers from depression and apparently insanity.

 

Not really. If anything Perturabo was the loser because if he had done his job better, Horus need never have exposed himself to the Emperor.

 

As for his depression, he lost his mentor, closest friend and father. He blamed himself, and felt a desire to atone for his failures (perceived or otherwise).

 

1 Legion and a Castle versus 1 Legion.

The Imperial Fists get slaughtered and bailed out by Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines.

 

Change that to 'one Legion with an unstable, impassioned and unsound commander walking into a carefully prepared trap versus one Legion with a famously dispassionate commander with a mastery of sieges.

 

I can believe the Iron Cage incident mathematics. Which makes Dorn's actions ridiculously stupid and so all but impossible for someone who has been conditioned with decades of Siege experience and been used as the pinch hitters once another Legion had tied up the enemy. If he was a siege master *as per fluff and equal to Turbs* there is no way he'd do that. Even after the Emperor was interred onto the Throne.

That is like someone who is a sword master choosing to run onto a sword or a mechanic trying to stop a Prime Mover from rolling forwards. :P

 

Rage makes people act in stupid ways. I think it is perfectly believable that Rogal Dorn would act rashly after having suffered a personal tragedy. People do that all the time.

 

So why are defences as good as mud when Dorn is running the show *with seven years+ of preparation*

 

They aren't though. Oh, and mud walls are excellent defences, because they absorb cannon impacts.

 

and then when Turbs is in charge *with perhaps a few years of preparation during the Scouring*, they become amazing again. :)

 

Because Fortress Terra was built to defend a strategic objective from attack, whilst the Iron Cage was built with the preset objective of luring in an enemy and opening him to attack. The Iron Cage wasn't a 'fortress'. The whole point was that it would be easy for Dorn to break through to the centre, where, instead of finding a command post or citadel, he found nothing, but then was in the centre of the frying pan.

[Dark Scipio]

On a side note..... The Emps. Fists had 7 years to work on the Palace ............. Fail!

 

Yes, the Imperial Fists did have seven years and still did a poor job.

 

The Siege of Terra is a horrid piece of fluff if you compare it to anything vaguely like reality. 3 Legions & a Castle versus 5 Legions & Daemons, the baddies are not all actually trying to breach the walls, only WE & IW, and yet they are about to crush it within 3 months.

 

Drivel. :mellow:

 

Afterwards Rogal Dorn goes to kill or capture Perturabo. Probably because he was so cut at being written as such a loser Siege Master. Rogal Dorn suffers from depression and apparently insanity.

 

1 Legion and a Castle versus 1 Legion.

The Imperial Fists get slaughtered and bailed out by Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines.

 

Hang on, if 2 focused Legions and Daemons with 3 Doing-other-stuff Legions can smash a seven years+ prepared Bastion of humanities defence with 3 focused Legions defending it, and all within 3 months....

How on Earth can 1 Legion get hammered *to the point of annihilation* by 1 Legion & Castle?

 

I can believe the Iron Cage incident mathematics. Which makes Dorn's actions ridiculously stupid and so all but impossible for someone who has been conditioned with decades of Siege experience and been used as the pinch hitters once another Legion had tied up the enemy. If he was a siege master *as per fluff and equal to Turbs* there is no way he'd do that. Even after the Emperor was interred onto the Throne.

That is like someone who is a sword master choosing to run onto a sword or a mechanic trying to stop a Prime Mover from rolling forwards. :huh:

 

So why are defences as good as mud when Dorn is running the show *with seven years+ of preparation* and then when Turbs is in charge *with perhaps a few years of preparation during the Scouring*, they become amazing again. ;)

 

Have I made my feelings on these inconsistencies known clearly enough? :lol:

 

+++

 

I am looking forwards to more HH stuff ~ I have just started reading A Thousand Sons, and I like it a lot. ^_^

 

 

Dorn hold that Palace against countless Demonslegions and against a superior tide of Astartes, while the Iron Warriors could at best force a draw at the Iron Cage against equal numbers and beeing in long prepared defensive lines.

[Rain]

The palace did fall for all intents. If you can find Index Astartes:Siege of the Imperial Palace, it pretty much says as much. The Iron Warriors (well actually the Legio Mortis, but it was under the direct command of Perturabo) breached the wall, and then the World Eaters poured in. The loyalists defended as well as they could, but they were forced back to the inner palace and the outcome was by this point a forgone conclusion. Then, Horus lowered his shields for reasons disputed and the Emperor, Sanguinius, and Dorn do a hail mary and teleport to Horus's ship and the rest is history.

[Dark Scipio]

A fortification is not fallen when the walls are breached. It would be the perfect Fortification if the walls would not have been breached against this superority of enemies.

 

In fact it did not fall, and Horus had to act quickly because everything seemed so, that the Palace would never fall because Reinforements of the Loyalist were likekly to arrive.

 

Dorn constructed a fortress out of a palace that did not fall despite the numbers.

 

And remember Dorn even saved valuable cultural goods.

[Captain Idaho]

People keep having a go at Dorn for failing to protect the Emepor with 7 years preparation, but let's not forget that if Dorn had 7 years to prepare, Horus did too...

[Rider-75]

Browsing BL for upcoming HH novels and books, i came across this when reading the blurb for "Age of Darkness"

 

"An unknown history is about to be unveiled as light is shed on the darkest years of the Horus Heresy, and revelations will surface that will shake the Imperium to its very foundation... "

 

Could we be about to get more insight into either of the missing Legions? - Which would be nice

 

Or is it just that they've never really dealt with what happened between the start of the Heresy and the Seige? - Which while still cool, isn't as NICE!!

 

Ideas?

[Wrath of Terra]

Just looks like a generic Imperial Fist to me.

 

Of course. Who else would be courageous enough to stand up to Horus?

 

 

Show some cursed respect cur. His name was Ollanius Pius, remember it.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ollanius_Pius

 

Alone did he fight his way through the Hell that was the Vengeful Spirit until came upon the Emperor stricken down by his daemon son Horus and Blessed Sanguinius already dead by the same vile hand. Alone he stood before Horus, the Horus who had his feet upon the road to god-hood. The horror and despair of the sight alone would have crushed Astartes, Primarchs even. Ollanius the Soldier, Ollanius the Pious knew his duty. Facing a veritable god Ollanius the Saint did his duty and he held the B) line.

 

When even his own sons had turned from his light and dragged the entirety of humanity to the brink of Hell, brave Ollanius' sacrifice showed the Emperor the nobility of the common human, showed that when even gods in human form had fallen to the greatest of evils that some would never stray from the Golden Path He had set. Brave Ollanius' sacrifice gave the Emperor the Holy Fury to cast down his fallen son, the favourite son that even moments before the Emperor hoped to save.

 

Ollanius Pius. Badass.

 

 

 

(Several slow, deep, relaxing breaths to calm down.)

 

And then GW retconned possibly their greatest hero out of existence. The stupid, smelly :cuss :cuss

 

I pray that in the HH series he'll be ret-conned back into the background. Who cares if some Astartes or Custodes had to face Horus alone? Oh dear, what a pity, never mind. It would lack any of the emotion of one lone Imperial Army trooper against Horus.

 

Can you tell I have a big-boy crush on Ollanius Pius and the whole scene? :D

[Pulse]

Can you tell I have a big-boy crush on Ollanius Pius and the whole scene? :huh:

Yeh and i would keep it under wraps as that story is complete pants.

[Wrath of Terra]

Can you tell I have a big-boy crush on Ollanius Pius and the whole scene? :P

Yeh and i would keep it under wraps as that story is complete pants.

 

 

Some people just don't get it I suppose.

[Ju'kosian]

Yes, the Imperial Fists did have seven years and still did a poor job.

 

The Palace never actually fell though, so their preparations were not all in vain. Dorn's boasts that it was 'impregnable' were silly though.

 

3 Legions & a Castle versus 5 Legions & Daemons,

 

2 Legions. The White Scars were defending the Lions gate spaceport. And the traitors had several Titan Legions (the Imps had one), millions of traitor guard and armour pieces. And don't underestimate daemons. Because they can be summoned and re-summoned, they are effectively without number.

 

yet they are about to crush it within 3 months.

 

Except they aren't, that's the whole reason Horus dropped his shields. Dorn designed and built a fortress which he held until he was relieved. Doesn't seem like a poor job to me.

Are we sure that it was Horus who dropped the shields ? I thought I read somewhere that Little Horus dropped them..

[Skirax]

Ollanius Pius ;)

*Is dragged off to secret Inquisition base*

 

He was my favourite ever character, and GW went the way of realism in place of heroics - they thought the idea of a 'soldier' standing up to Horus was too unbelievable, but a Custodes wasn't.

[Wrath of Terra]

Ollanius Pius ;)

*Is dragged off to secret Inquisition base*

 

He was my favourite ever character, and GW went the way of realism in place of heroics - they thought the idea of a 'soldier' standing up to Horus was too unbelievable, but a Custodes wasn't.

 

It's not that unbelievable. It's unbelievable that he'd have any sort of chance of scratching Horus. A Custode might nick him but that's about it. What matters is that an average human soldier saw, literally, Hell's chosen look like he was on the verge of casting down the (God) Emperor. That soldier showed more faith and loyalty to the Emperor than Horus ultimately did and even though everyone on that bridge knew Ollanius didn't have a chance Ollanius acted anyway, out of defiance towards Horus and love of the Emperor.

 

Much better that than some one dimensional, faceless Custode wandering in to exhibit little in the way of emotion or relatability before going all red-shirt. Boring. Tedious. Unnescessary power-armour porn when we could have Ollanius.