The Rift Lords - Ace's idea for traitors

[Brother Argent]

I faced a similar conundrum with the Iron Dragons. I solved it in multiple ways: Recruiting some from their homeworld, some from the worlds under their sway, some from other renegades joining and lastly recruiting from Imperial worlds. This last one may involve setting up an invasion of the planet by a different force to find the most suitable and strongest recruits. Of course the Iron Dragons fight for their own interests and sake where-as the Rift Lords are trying to 'save' the people of hte Imperium, so it would obviously work differently.

[Wildfire]

Re: the title of the "priestly" Rift Lords, I much prefer Voice over Word. I had an interesting though about these guys. What if all Voices wear identical armor at all times, or perhaps undergo surgery which gives them all identical facial features? This way it is much harder to track their movement, and is more fear-inspiring for the Imperium ("Holy Emperor, Inquisitor, this is the 4th time we've killed this man!").

 

I also don't like the idea of a homeworld for these guys. Makes them too easy to find, and too vulnerable to anyone willing to drop a virus bomb or two. Instead, why would the Voice not choose worthy candidates from among the faithful for this ultimate gift of the Chaos Gods?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Re: the title of the "priestly" Rift Lords, I much prefer Voice over Word. I had an interesting though about these guys. What if all Voices wear identical armor at all times, or perhaps undergo surgery which gives them all identical facial features? This way it is much harder to track their movement, and is more fear-inspiring for the Imperium ("Holy Emperor, Inquisitor, this is the 4th time we've killed this man!").

 

There's an IG novel where an Inquisitor and his henchmen all have identical features.

[Wildfire]

Dang. Scratch that, then.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Dang. Scratch that, then.

 

Just alter it.

 

Think of the golden masks of the Sanguinary Guard (I think)... The Voice of the Rift Lords never goes anywhere unmasked, his features concealed behind a mask created in the image of *****.

 

That way they all look alike without the need for surgery or anything like that, think of it in the faceless way of the Chaplains skull-helms.

[Ferrus Manus]

The Voice of the Rift Lords never goes anywhere unmasked, his features concealed behind a mask created in the image of *****.

Potentially, the mask could be grafted to his skull to prevent it being removed in combat, by the enemy.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Ferrus Manus

[Captain Juan Juarez]

The Voice of the Rift Lords never goes anywhere unmasked, his features concealed behind a mask created in the image of *****.

Potentially, the mask could be grafted to his skull to prevent it being removed in combat, by the enemy.

 

I thought about that actually, perhaps not even a mask.. A Very subtle mutation of bone like groth with forms it? But that could be a tad complicated and Chaos is hardly subtle.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Captain Juan Juarez

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Chaos may not always be subtle, but those that use it or work around it can be. Look at the Alpha Legion. While they can't truly be classed as one of the 'chaos legions' they do use chaos for their own gains and pretty much wrote the book on astartes subtlety.

 

If it's part of who the Rift Lords are, I see no problem with it. They are more organized and less feral than other, simpler warbands and I think this speaks to this superior manner very aptly.

[Wildfire]

Chaos is hardly subtle.

 

Says who? Chaos can be very subtle, when it wants to be.

 

Of course, being Chaos, it rarely can stay the course over extended periods of time...

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Chaos is hardly subtle.

 

Says who? Chaos can be very subtle, when it wants to be.

 

Of course, being Chaos, it rarely can stay the course over extended periods of time...

 

I mean in terms of mutations, so don't crop quotes :P

[Ace Debonair]

Dang. Scratch that, then.

 

Just alter it.

 

Think of the golden masks of the Sanguinary Guard (I think)... The Voice of the Rift Lords never goes anywhere unmasked, his features concealed behind a mask created in the image of *****.

 

That way they all look alike without the need for surgery or anything like that, think of it in the faceless way of the Chaplains skull-helms.

 

Dude, AWESOME.

Totally buying into the facemasks. ^_^

I'm thinking plain and featureless gold masks, covering the top half of the face (leaving only the mouth and chin visible, really) complete with cunningly crafted golden eye lenses so the masks look totally solid, and the wearer appears blind.

 

Makes them too easy to find, and too vulnerable to anyone willing to drop a virus bomb or two. Instead, why would the Voice not choose worthy candidates from among the faithful for this ultimate gift of the Chaos Gods?

 

Surviving the warpstorms and other sundry dangers that are the Shroud Stars in order to get close enough to fire a virus bomb would be another matter, but I see your point.

The Imperium is not short of firepower, and sooner or later they'd catch one in the face.

 

No homeworld it is, then. Instead the lucky and brave few selected by the Voice (there's more than one, but they all share the same singular title) will be brought back to the space hulk and trained up from there on various worlds.

 

It's kind of weird - the Rift Lords are be a lot more disciplined and formal than other chaos warbands. Combined with the highly formalized, more welcoming version of the religion, it makes them a strange echo of the stauncher and more solid chapters of the Imperium. Only, of course, with the Chaos Gods in the place of the Emperor.

[Wildfire]

Chaos is hardly subtle.

 

Says who? Chaos can be very subtle, when it wants to be.

 

Of course, being Chaos, it rarely can stay the course over extended periods of time...

 

I mean in terms of mutations, so don't crop quotes :P

 

I didn't catch that subtext, but I'd still disagree. Mutations may be very subtle, people just ignore them because part of 40k is modeling, and drastic mutations makes for a more interesting model.

 

 

It's kind of weird - the Rift Lords are be a lot more disciplined and formal than other chaos warbands. Combined with the highly formalized, more welcoming version of the religion, it makes them a strange echo of the stauncher and more solid chapters of the Imperium. Only, of course, with the Chaos Gods in the place of the Emperor.

 

If you take a large enough sample, even complete randomness will appear at times to follow a pattern.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Ace I've had two awesome ideas for you IA.. Go me :devil:

 

Wildfire, in that case Ill agree that you're wrong.. Or to disagree, whichever is best B)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

To end this debate over subtlety, which is fairly off-topic by this point I should just mention that it is both subtle and not at the same time.

 

If it wasn't subtle Tzeentch could not exist. Period. To control the strands of all fate you have to be both subtle and not whenever the situation calls for it. That is not to be argued against as it is carved in stone as far as chaos canon goes.

 

No homeworld it is, then. Instead the lucky and brave few selected by the Voice (there's more than one, but they all share the same singular title) will be brought back to the space hulk and trained up from there on various worlds.

 

I think this is deserving of it's own sidebar, perhaps a 'Voice' speaking to a crowd of hopefuls or curious onlookers in a warzone. People that are looking for a way out, away from the fighting or perhaps the power to change their own circumstances. People in those circumstances are desperate and if the 'Voices' are as persuasive as the best Imperial Preachers then they will definitely get the people they need.

 

One thing I am curious about though is that because it's definitely a Chaos Warband the Rift Lords are not constricted by the Imperium's separation of powers do they have non-astartes forces in tow? I know you don't want to make them overpowering but chaos forces aren't just made up of traitor astartes after all.

[Ace Debonair]

I think this is deserving of it's own sidebar, perhaps a 'Voice' speaking to a crowd of hopefuls or curious onlookers in a warzone. People that are looking for a way out, away from the fighting or perhaps the power to change their own circumstances. People in those circumstances are desperate and if the 'Voices' are as persuasive as the best Imperial Preachers then they will definitely get the people they need.

 

One thing I am curious about though is that because it's definitely a Chaos Warband the Rift Lords are not constricted by the Imperium's separation of powers do they have non-astartes forces in tow? I know you don't want to make them overpowering but chaos forces aren't just made up of traitor astartes after all.

 

I was writing one of thes dealing with that exact situation yesterday. Get out of my head, GHY! :P

I've had to scrap it though, since it was rubbish. I'll definitely try again later, though - it's the best way to hint at one of the things that influenced the Rift Lords. ;)

 

In terms of non-astartes forces, I don't know. Individual taskforces working in various parts of the galaxy might well make use of devout followers to raise some hell so the Rift Lords can pin it on the Emperor.

 

I'm unsure about having a permanent group of traitor guard or any of that kidney simply because I don't know what I would do with them. I suppose they could be used alongside or in place of other warbands, as well as put more firepower aboard the space hulk the Rift Lords live in.

 

I did have a question, since I'm wondering where the Rift Lords should get their weapons/armour from...

How, roughly, does the DarkMech work? I'm wondering if I should put some kind of evil forgeship in the Shroud, just to resupply the good folks who dwell therein.

[Wildfire]

I did have a question, since I'm wondering where the Rift Lords should get their weapons/armour from...

How, roughly, does the DarkMech work? I'm wondering if I should put some kind of evil forgeship in the Shroud, just to resupply the good folks who dwell therein.

 

Perhaps their hulk is actually an ancient spaceborne automated factory?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Get out of my head, GHY!

 

But I just redecorated! :(

 

I did have a question, since I'm wondering where the Rift Lords should get their weapons/armour from...

How, roughly, does the DarkMech work? I'm wondering if I should put some kind of evil forgeship in the Shroud, just to resupply the good folks who dwell therein.

 

A mechanicus forge-ship could work well here similar to what Wildfire suggested, though I think you shouldn't make it too major. Chaos forces typically must raid the Imperium for certain supplies and even though your group is large and well organized I wouldn't take it away from them as it is part of what makes the renegades battle a bit uphill. The Imperium has the manpower and the manufacturing ability to crush any single foe many, many times over. What prevents them doing so, apart from bureaucratic hell and political minefields is the fact that they are constantly beset from all sides by almost all of the other races in the galaxy. Chaos is a significant force on it's own, but it's not a structured enemy, more of a malign over-arching threat.

 

Wall of text!

 

I'm unsure about having a permanent group of traitor guard or any of that kidney simply because I don't know what I would do with them. I suppose they could be used alongside or in place of other warbands, as well as put more firepower aboard the space hulk the Rift Lords live in.

 

What if the Rift Lords use traitor guard and heretic units to accompany other warbands for both the extra firepower and the ability to keep tabs on those that have pretty much requested asylum. Kind of their ever-watchful presence. While they may not be able to stand up against a proper chaos marine warband they could easily keep watch on them and easily present a significant foe to any independent traitor guard units, along with the smaller warbands.

 

Hell, you could have a whole regiment under the command of a Rift Lord, being the intermediary between the other chaos warband and the Rift Lords.

 

Those are my thoughts anyway.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Grey Hunter Ydalir

[Guest Mordray]

to build upon GHY's work...

 

Dark-Mech:

As far as I know these guys are just Admech with a drive towards tech-heresy. Which could be anything from not beating on the machine before starting it. To not using the 'proper' (IE might not be good enough) oil/coolant. Could even be going as far as to attempt to improve upon what the machine god made (Admech really doesn't like that... if there god didn't make it then we don't need it.) Tech-heresy can also extent towards binding daemons and machine-spirits together and I'd imagine at least one faction of the Dark-mech is working on a chaos enhanced avatar for the machine god.

 

 

One thing to keep in mind Ace is that you don't need to concern yourself with Table Top balance when writing an IA. Hell I'm writing my Void Reavers up as something I think I'd enjoy playing. I'll worry about TT balance after I finish their fluff and never before. My only real concern with the fluff is making sure that they are both cool and yet still very much a forgotten/overlooked background element not a core element as with the GW poster-boy Chapters/Races/Regiments/Factions.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Mordray

[Ace Debonair]

One thing to keep in mind Ace is that you don't need to concern yourself with Table Top balance when writing an IA. Hell I'm writing my Void Reavers up as something I think I'd enjoy playing. I'll worry about TT balance after I finish their fluff and never before. My only real concern with the fluff is making sure that they are both cool and yet still very much a forgotten/overlooked background element not a core element as with the GW poster-boy Chapters/Races/Regiments/Factions.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, and will almost certainly laugh aloud for an almost offensively long time should anyone ever complain about how the Rift Lords would work in an actual game of 40k. :lol:

I'm not the least bit concerned how they'd play, since I've never sat down and played a game of 40k in my life. The closest I've ever come was space crusade. (back in the days when bolters had bayonets :P )

 

I just know that other people do factor such things into what they are reading, so if I can flatten that particular speed bump before I even get started down the road, all to the good.

 

CJJ, you are indeed on form for the ideas. Keep it up! :P

 

A mechanicus forge-ship could work well here similar to what Wildfire suggested, though I think you shouldn't make it too major. Chaos forces typically must raid the Imperium for certain supplies and even though your group is large and well organized I wouldn't take it away from them as it is part of what makes the renegades battle a bit uphill. The Imperium has the manpower and the manufacturing ability to crush any single foe many, many times over. What prevents them doing so, apart from bureaucratic hell and political minefields is the fact that they are constantly beset from all sides by almost all of the other races in the galaxy. Chaos is a significant force on it's own, but it's not a structured enemy, more of a malign over-arching threat.

 

Ah, well, as a newcomer to the chaos scene it was something I thought I should make certain of, before I started writing about how they send geneseed tithes to the DarkMech or something equally dozy.

Wildfire's idea works fine for me - a factory even capable of producing bolter shells and half-decent armour will do, just so running out of bullets isn't in the Rift Lords' forseeable future.

 

Heh, there's so many good ideas in this thread that I don't think I'll be able to do them all justice when I write this IT up. At least, not on my first attempt. :D

 

I'd like to get to work on these guys tomorrow, but the amount of free time I've got is drastically plummeting of late.

Visiting relatives, much cave upgrading/maintenance and other intrusions into my writing/research time mean I have little opportunity to discuss history with Lord Maluk and company, let alone document the whole lot into something coherent that also describes perfectly the picture of a feasibly elusive, persuasive potential menace who may or may not turn up to ruin your day no matter where you are.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Damn your sneaky Rift Lords Ace, my Blazing Sons need someone to fight! ^_^

 

Are the Rift Lords still at the top of your list or has another of your chapters caught your eye? I know myself that while I'm working on the Sons I keep getting drawn to my Voyagers chapter that I had ideas for a while ago, which isn't good considering I want to finish the Sons first....

 

Anyway, enough about me, more about them chaos ladz over there. If I work the Rift Lords into my IA don't feel obligated to mention the Sons in yours, it's my idea to have a 'nemesis' for the Sons after all. Damn chaos scum. ;)

[Ace Debonair]

Damn your sneaky Rift Lords Ace, my Blazing Sons need someone to fight! :P

Pfft, like they'd ever get near the Rift Lords. They'd just break up your overstretched supply lines and attack you when you're at your weakest. ;)

 

Are the Rift Lords still at the top of your list or has another of your chapters caught your eye? I know myself that while I'm working on the Sons I keep getting drawn to my Voyagers chapter that I had ideas for a while ago, which isn't good considering I want to finish the Sons first....

 

Anyway, enough about me, more about them chaos ladz over there. If I work the Rift Lords into my IA don't feel obligated to mention the Sons in yours, it's my idea to have a 'nemesis' for the Sons after all. Damn chaos scum. ;)

 

It's all about the Rift Lords EDIT: (can't abbreviate them to RL, the Red Lords have got that already...) right now, with the Infinity Knights to follow. I've got a spare hour or so, I'll have a bash at the origins/early history part of the IT.

 

I personally like to think the Rift Lords are a nemesis for all the unenlightened, but then I do have a habit of punching above my weight with the ambitious ideas. ;)

If I get room I'll namedrop the Blazing Sons in a sidebar somewhere, but I can make no promises.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Wildfire]

Wildfire's idea works fine for me - a factory even capable of producing bolter shells and half-decent armour will do, just so running out of bullets isn't in the Rift Lords' forseeable future.

 

Actually, you might make this part of why they are able to throw so much weight around the Shroud Stars. Perhaps there's very little in the way of manufacturing capability in the Shroud Stars, and other renegades must trade favors to get bullets.

 

If their mobile forge hulk is large enough, it would take perhaps decades or even centuries to match it's capability. Enough time that while other warbands don't like the monopoly, they must deal with the Rift Lords constantly or they would be overwhelmed by guardsmen with charged laspacks (lasguns > expensive clubs, which is what bolters without bolts are). In fact, if the Rift Lords were really evil, they might attack (or bribe others to attack, or covertly notify Imperial forces of the location of, etc.) any renegades who were trying to set up a manufacturing base in the Shroud Stars. This way they keep their monopoly.

 

Likewise, other warbands might hate that the Rift Lords are violently maintaining their monopoly. But they can't afford to destroy them, because the Rift Lords have mined the entire factory complex and would rather take it with them than leave it for their rivals.

 

I think the primary concern with this idea would be explaining how they keep away from Imperial attack fleets. I mean, the Imperium may be corrupt and frequently incompetant, but it isn't dumb. If the forge complex goes, so does the renegade presence in this area. And they only have to be lucky once, where the renegades must be lucky every time.

 

So how does the factorium survive? Does it have some sort of chaosy shield that protects it from detection? Is it a massive fortress as well, or protected by a significant fleet? Is it so mobile that the Rift Lords can run easily? Have they mounted a disinformation campaign to keep the Imperium from locating it, or do they control fleet officers who steer the Navy away? Is there so much debris in the Shroud Stars that it's extremely difficult to find it? Is it so deep behind the lines that it's impossible to attack? Does the Imperium not know of it's existance, and thus doesn't look for it? Or has it simply not been found yet?

 

I like the last choice best, as it sets a predefined clock on the Rift Lords. Eventually, they're going to get found, and then they'll die. I like encompassing a doom in the setting from the start, but that's because I like tradegies. Plus I find that sort of living in the glory of the moment very chaosy.

[Ace Debonair]

First off;

Wildfire, you're a genius. ;)

 

I like the last choice best, as it sets a predefined clock on the Rift Lords. Eventually, they're going to get found, and then they'll die. I like encompassing a doom in the setting from the start, but that's because I like tradegies. Plus I find that sort of living in the glory of the moment very chaosy.

It's a very cool idea. I'm not sold on setting the timer for the Rift Lords just yet, though. ;)

 

I much prefer the idea that the Imperium doesn't have any evidence that the Rift Lords have such a ship, or that they make their home in the Shroud Stars. Rift Lord campaigns range far and wide, leaving much speculation as to where they are really stationed. Chaos forces hired by the Rift Lords to perform a task will seldom have to perform it close to home.

 

This does beg the question of how they get from place to place, although I suspect the best bet is by the mundane way of avoiding Naval patrols and moving circumspectly through space.

 

Honestly, I don't want the Imperium to have much concrete stuff on the Rift Lords. It's the only feasible way they, and the Shroud Stars, could survive.

 

In fact, if the Rift Lords were really evil, they might attack (or bribe others to attack, or covertly notify Imperial forces of the location of, etc.) any renegades who were trying to set up a manufacturing base in the Shroud Stars. This way they keep their monopoly.

 

Would the Rift Lords do something so fiendish? ;)

(They would now, obviously. Great idea!)

 

So how does the factorium survive? Does it have some sort of chaosy shield that protects it from detection? Is it a massive fortress as well, or protected by a significant fleet? Is it so mobile that the Rift Lords can run easily? Have they mounted a disinformation campaign to keep the Imperium from locating it, or do they control fleet officers who steer the Navy away? Is there so much debris in the Shroud Stars that it's extremely difficult to find it? Is it so deep behind the lines that it's impossible to attack? Does the Imperium not know of it's existance, and thus doesn't look for it? Or has it simply not been found yet?

 

OK, well, it's sort of most of these. :P

I was thinking highly mobile, shielded from detection, also shielded by a disinformation campaign, hidden deep in the heart of the treacherous Shroud Stars and mostly unheard of by the Imperium.

 

EDIT: Not that I'll need that much detail in the IT, right? ;)

Edited June 23, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Pfft, like they'd ever get near the Rift Lords. They'd just break up your overstretched supply lines and attack you when you're at your weakest. ;)

 

Says you sonny jim! The Sons would lure you into foolish raid and reduce your already undermanned control over the shroud stars! :lol:

 

I think 'stretched' supply lines is, err, stretching it a bit. I didn't mean for it to be a massive problem, but that recruits are flown constantly from the homeworld to the front lines, creating a bit of a lag in recruiting and deployment.

 

Actually, you might make this part of why they are able to throw so much weight around the Shroud Stars. Perhaps there's very little in the way of manufacturing capability in the Shroud Stars, and other renegades must trade favors to get bullets.

 

I like this a lot and it reminds me of (bear with me if you don't play/aren't into games or Fallout) the Fallout series of games and more recently, The Pitt addon for Fallout 3. The Pitt maintains domination of the surrounding area through working slaves in the forges to keep the steel mills and manufacturing centers running. They have the only means of keeping themselves well supplied outside of the last technological hold outs of mankind.

 

The slaves bitch bitterly and try to revolt every now and again, but to those living outside The Pitt, the Raiders who protect them and raid for food they have it easy and shouldn't complain. It's a pretty good human situation to think about.

 

Anyway, the reason this relates to the Rift Lords is clear in my mind. The Manufactorums run by the Rift Lords would be run by slaves most likely, worked to the bone by their (likely normal human renegade/heretic) guards. While it would be less philanthropic than the protection the workers in the situation the Pitt workers gain, the Rift Lords would likely see it as worthy service. Perhaps some of the work details would be very fanatical in their production work, the same way some Imperial factory workers consider their work ordained by the Emperor.

 

I get drawn into things very easily and have rather an overactive imagination as you can probably tell! :P

 

It's a very cool idea. I'm not sold on setting the timer for the Rift Lords just yet, though.

 

Honestly I like the idea of the 'end' or 'current' part of the IT describing the Rift Lords having to actively fight to maintain their dominion and monopoly in the Shroud Stars, like their golden age came and resting on their laurels in many ways (if appropriate) has left them with some unexpected obstacles.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Grey Hunter Ydalir

[Wildfire]

First off;

Wildfire, you're a genius. :lol:

 

Wow, thanks. Quite a compliment, coming from you.

 

I like the last choice best, as it sets a predefined clock on the Rift Lords. Eventually, they're going to get found, and then they'll die. I like encompassing a doom in the setting from the start, but that's because I like tradegies. Plus I find that sort of living in the glory of the moment very chaosy.

It's a very cool idea. I'm not sold on setting the timer for the Rift Lords just yet, though. :P

 

I understand. Not many people share my taste for doomed anti-heros (though you'd think more would around here, given the setting). It's why BA/TS are my favorite loyalists/traitors, they're were the legions that had the most potential yet are their own worst enemies.

 

Also, my lucky number is 9. Is that wierd? BA are the 9th legion, and the sacred number of Tzeentch is 9. I didn't really think about either of those facts until recently. It's like GW custom made them for me!