The Rift Lords - Ace's idea for traitors

[Ace Debonair]

I understand. Not many people share my taste for doomed anti-heros (though you'd think more would around here, given the setting). It's why BA/TS are my favorite loyalists/traitors, they're were the legions that had the most potential yet are their own worst enemies.

 

Also, my lucky number is 9. Is that wierd? BA are the 9th legion, and the sacred number of Tzeentch is 9. I didn't really think about either of those facts until recently. It's like GW custom made them for me!

 

It's a wacky world alright! :D

 

Ok, Ace, back to business.

I've been promising actual work on these guys since before the heresy (at least, it feels that way) so it's about time I delivered.

 

I've put together an Early History section for these guys, so see what you think.

It's a bit long, I know - but I'm not sure where to streamline.

 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Early History:

Origins:

The warband known as the Rift Lords are, in many respects, an enigma to Imperial researchers. It is hard to say for certain where they came from, whether the Rift Lords are a fallen Space Marine chapter, or a fragment from one of the original legions. Even amongst the warband itself, the truth is not known - indeed such discussions are considered unimportant, as the geneseed in it's original form was intended only as a tool of the false Emperor.

 

Much of the early history of the warband is lost, even to them - though by chance or design is hard to say. It is known that the Rift Lords have always been devout followers of the cult of Chaos Undivided, and have always preferred brutal, two-pronged surprise attacks against foes rather than pitched battles. In a way, however, the true history of the Rift Lords begins with Maluk, their current leader. With his rise to power, the Rift Lords became more agressive, - attacking Imperial forces more regularly and with greater ferocity. Maluk, however, was no fool. Knowing full well the might the Imperium could bring to bear against the warband, he always targeted Imperial forces that were either weakened from conflict or unable to defend themselves, allowing the Rift Lords to remain undetected. The Rift Lords were a potent, hidden threat within the Segmentum Pacificus, always in the shadows, biding their time before striking. Maluk was guided in his campaign by Keja, a wily sorcerer possessed of great intuition and cunning. It was through a combination of Maluk's ruthlessness and Keja's deadly insight that the Rift Lords were successful in prosecuting their hidden war and bringing glory to their dark Gods.

 

Avenging Angels:

The first Imperium-confirmed combat against the Rift Lords was on the planet of Throka, at the fortress-monastery of the Red Sabres. After a long, difficult campaign, picking exclusively on the weakened and islotaed Astartes forces, the Rift Lords had driven what remained of the chapter back to their homeworld. Although the Red Sabres were destroyed in the following battle, and their once-proud Red Fortress torn to the ground, reinforcements from the chapter known as the Stonebound were detected a short way from the planet at the battle's conclusion. Imperial records state that the Stonebound were able to engage the warband in open combat, killing many and driving the few survivng weary traitors from the planet. The truth is that Maluk quickly ordered a retreat, unsure of how many astartes were arriving to avenge the fallen chapter. Leaving only a hundred of the least experienced as a decoy to occupy the attention of the vengeful astartes, Maluk and his forces were able to slip away, boarding their ships and abandoning the planet.

 

This conflict marked the end of the Rift Lords' veil of secrecy. The Stonebound would pursue the warband relentlessly, forcing them to flee across the Segmentum Pacificus. During this time, the Rift Lords were perpetually hunted, attacked by naval forces and xeno ships alike. Even Keja's psychic foresight could not keep them from the danger that threatened from every angle. During this time, even some senior Rift Lords begun to doubt in the power of the Chaos Gods. Maluk had to contend with several challenges to his leadership, creating further strife and tension within the warband.

 

Eventually, the Rift Lords were cornered. Maluk and Keja only had one option - to abandon the Segmentum Pacificus altogether. Maluk and Keja organised their forces carefully, keeping only those who had shown unwavering devotion both to Maluk and the Chaos Gods near them, and placing the other, less stalwart Rift Lords in more perilous positions. As the Imperial forces closed in, Maluk hatched his plan.Taking only his chosen followers with them, Maluk and Keja snuck away aboard a strike cruiser, leaving the majority of the original warband to perish at the hands of the vengeful Imperium.

 

Into the Shroud:

Masquerading as a loyalist force, the surviving Rift Lords traversed a great expanse of space, avoiding naval patrols and contact with enemy forces where possible. Eventually, after many years, the Rift Lords found themselves in the Segmentum Ultima, north of the Dominion of Storms. Constant evading of Imperial forces had left the surviving Rift Lords haggard and weary. Seeking desperately to find a permanent shelter, they travelled haphazardly from system to system. Eventually, on one planet, they heard tell of a place called the Shroud Stars, said to be a cursed place, forsaken by the Emperor. The Rift Lords navigated their way towards the Shroud cautiously, knowing Imperial forces resided watchfully in the areas of space around it.

 

What they found there staggered their minds. The Shroud Stars were a number of barren planets and suns blanketed with unpredictable, harsh warp storms - throughout it's length and breadth were the ruins of vessels - Imperial and Xeno - both from recent times and some dating back to perhaps before the great crusade. Navigating through the Shroud required all of the guile and skill of the Rift Lords, but they knew instinctively that here was a place where the Imperium would never reach them. At the centre of the warp storms sat a great space hulk, abandoned and empty. The Rift Lords boarded it and swept through with the practiced ease common to Astartes. At the centre they found a vast, decorated altar room, covered from floor to ceiling in runic writing detailing the glories of the Chaos Gods and promising great power to those who glorify them with all their heart and soul. More practically, though, behind the altar lay a great relic - the controls for a huge and powerful engine that generated the devastating warp-storms that gave the Shroud Stars their name.

 

Filled with a newfound zeal, and convinced to a man that the Gods had planned this for them, from that day the Rift Lords would be forever changed. Maluk and Keja begun planning to rebuild the warband, and how best to strike back at the hated Imperium.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

Phew... that took some writing.

After all the hype I've given these guys, I only hope what I've written isn't too much of a disappointment. :ermm:

 

As always, any thoughts, ideas, views or blasting apart of my crazy ideas will be appreciated. ^_^

Edited June 23, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

While I am no Octavulg or Aurillius Rex, I don't see much of anything problematic here. I like it a lot, though that is hardly a suprise coming from me regarding your work Ace as I'm a bit of a fan. :ermm:

 

The whole 'lost history' angle was a little dissapointing at first until you swept it aside with the introduction of Maluk and the statement 'the true history of the Rift Lords' made up for any preconceptions I had about the initial enigmatic beginnings. Perhaps only Maluk and Keja truly know where the Rift Lords originally came from. In any case, it's not a problem.

 

Even Keja's psychic foresight could not keep them from the danger that threatened from every angle. Most devastating to the warband were attacks by the Twilight Talons - a chapter of loyal Astartes whose guile and skill at surprise attacks almost made them the equal of the Rift Lords.

 

The only thing I might point out is the fact that you are name-dropping two of your own chapters. While this rule is usually only concerned with Official chapters and Canon fluff, putting shameless plugs for your own chapters detracts from their 'coolness' and pushes them further towards 'awesome', which as we all know is the worse end of the spectrum.

 

Name dropping the Blazing Sons however... ^_^ I kid, I kid. I think the Stonebound is fine, as they bring a great symmetry to both of the IA's, I do however think the Twilight Talons bit could be dropped with no ill effects. It would also streamline it a bit as you mentioned. The point is we get that they were harried and persued by the Imperium and the Adeptus Astartes, the Twilight Talons piece might be labouring that point a little bit.

[Ace Debonair]

While I am no Octavulg or Aurillius Rex, I don't see much of anything problematic here. I like it a lot, though that is hardly a suprise coming from me regarding your work Ace as I'm a bit of a fan. ^_^

Oh, I don't know - generally you're amongst the first to pick up on any mistakes in IAs, so I'm glad this passes the GHY test. :D

 

The whole 'lost history' angle was a little dissapointing at first until you swept it aside with the introduction of Maluk and the statement 'the true history of the Rift Lords' made up for any preconceptions I had about the initial enigmatic beginnings. Perhaps only Maluk and Keja truly know where the Rift Lords originally came from. In any case, it's not a problem.

 

Disappointing in what way? The Rift Lords were always going to have disputable origins, so I presume the execution is a bit heavy-handed or otherwise rubbish. What bit is most at fault?

 

The only thing I might point out is the fact that you are name-dropping two of your own chapters. While this rule is usually only concerned with Official chapters and Canon fluff, putting shameless plugs for your own chapters detracts from their 'coolness' and pushes them further towards 'awesome', which as we all know is the worse end of the spectrum.

 

Fine, the TT are gone. I was only really adding them in because I was struck by the remarkable parallels between the two, none of which were ever conciously made.

 

Any more for any more? :ermm:

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

The Rift Lords were always going to have disputable origins, so I presume the execution is a bit heavy-handed or otherwise rubbish. What bit is most at fault?

 

Disappointing in what way? The Rift Lords were always going to have disputable origins, so I presume the execution is a bit heavy-handed or otherwise rubbish. What bit is most at fault?

 

Disreputable is fine, it's just the fact that 'unknown origins' or a start that is inexplicably shrouded in mystery is a little overdone, and there are a lot of pre-loaded preconceptions that are brought to bear by those who have read a lot of those sorts of things, like myself.

 

The reason I say that it's not a problem is because for me it's more an issue with my own preconceptions than it is a real literary problem for your origins. It might be alleviated by alluding to some part of their history that could be linked to them, before they went rogue.

 

A lot of the time it seems like I'm making something out of nothing. I think I was curious to know just who the Rift Lords were before they fell and just what happened to make them go the way they have. Again, this is not something that requires a change, but it could be something to think about.

[Ferrus Manus]

The warband known as the Rift Lords are, in many respects, an enigma to Imperial researchers. It is hard to say for certain where they came from, whether the Rift Lords are a fallen Space Marine chapter, or a fragment from one of the original legions. Even amongst the warband itself, the truth is not known - indeed such discussions are considered unimportant, as the geneseed in it's original form was intended only as a tool of the false Emperor.

 

Much of the early history of the warband is lost, even to them - though by chance or design is hard to say. It is known that the Rift Lords have always been devout followers of the cult of Chaos Undivided, and have always preferred brutal, two-pronged surprise attacks against foes rather than pitched battles. In a way, however, the true history of the Rift Lords begins with Maluk, their current leader. With his rise to power, the Rift Lords became more agressive, - attacking Imperial forces more regularly and with greater ferocity. Maluk, however, was no fool. Knowing full well the might the Imperium could bring to bear against the warband, he always targeted Imperial forces that were either weakened from conflict or unable to defend themselves, allowing the Rift Lords to remain undetected. The Rift Lords were a potent, hidden threat within the Segmentum Pacificus, always in the shadows, biding their time before striking. Maluk was guided in his campaign by Keja, a wily sorcerer possessed of great intuition and cunning. It was through a combination of Maluk's ruthlessness and Keja's deadly insight that the Rift Lords were successful in prosecuting their hidden war and bringing glory to their dark Gods.

Bolded words need capitals.

 

The first Imperium-confirmed combat against the Rift Lords was on the planet of Throka, at the fortress-monastery of the Red Sabres. After a long, difficult campaign, picking exclusively on the weakened and islotaed Astartes forces, the Rift Lords had driven what remained of the chapter back to their homeworld. Although the Red Sabres were destroyed in the following battle, and their once-proud Red Fortress torn to the ground, reinforcements from the chapter known as the Stonebound were detected a short way from the planet at the battle's conclusion. Imperial records state that the Stonebound were able to engage the warband in open combat, killing many and driving the few survivng weary traitors from the planet. The truth is that Maluk quickly ordered a retreat, unsure of how many astartes were arriving to avenge the fallen chapter. Leaving only a hundred of the least experienced as a decoy to occupy the attention of the vengeful astartes, Maluk and his forces were able to slip away, boarding their ships and abandoning the planet.

 

This conflict marked the end of the Rift Lords' veil of secrecy. The Stonebound would pursue the warband relentlessly, forcing them to flee across the Segmentum Pacificus. During this time, the Rift Lords were perpetually hunted, attacked by naval forces and xeno ships alike. Even Keja's psychic foresight could not keep them from the danger that threatened from every angle. During this time, even some senior Rift Lords begun to doubt in the power of the Chaos Gods. Maluk had to contend with several challenges to his leadership, creating further strife and tension within the warband.

 

Eventually, the Rift Lords were cornered. Maluk and Keja only had one option - to abandon the Segmentum Pacificus altogether. Maluk and Keja organised their forces carefully, keeping only those who had shown unwavering devotion both to Maluk and the Chaos Gods near them, and placing the other, less stalwart Rift Lords in more perilous positions. As the Imperial forces closed in, Maluk hatched his plan. Taking only his chosen followers with them, Maluk and Keja snuck away aboard a strike cruiser, leaving the majority of the original warband to perish at the hands of the vengeful Imperium.

Same as above.

Italics - I don't think this word fits, 'razed' would be better.

 

More practically, though, behind the altar lay a great relic - the controls for a huge and powerful engine that generated the devastating warp-storms that gave the Shroud Stars their name

Out of the whole section this was the only bit that disappointed me. In my opinion it makes them seem to awesome. I prefered the 'unstable psyker that died and caused the region to become unstable in terms of the veil between the warp and reality' angle that was discussed somewhere in the thread.

 

++++++++++++

 

Otherwise, I like it :rolleyes:

[Lysimachus]

Overall I think it's a good start, Ace. However, there's one thing that bugs me slightly in the write up... for that matter it worried me in the planning stages too.

 

There are 2 ways to do an IA/IT in terms of writing perspective, omniscient or in-universe (i.e. don't have all the details). Now, in my view, you've done the right thing to do the Rift Lords from an in-universe PoV, it fits their subtle, sneaky nature better and works with keeping their early history a mystery.

 

However, I have one problem. How would anybody outside the RL themselves know who leads them? Given their secretive nature and the very cool ideas that have been knocked about regarding the faceless 'Voice' characters, why would they then have revealed Maluk and Keja? Surely for an enemy, whether Imperial or another renegade, that would make them a clear target for assassination attempts? Perhaps it would be better to keep them more anonymous and hidden, like the rest of the RL command structure?

 

Wouldn't actually affect the article much, just hint at the change of leadership instead of outright stating that it's because of Maluk?

 

In a way, however, the true history of the Rift Lords begins with Maluk, their current leader. With his rise to power, the Rift Lords became more agressive, - attacking Imperial forces more regularly and with greater ferocity.

 

to something along the lines of:

 

In a way, however, the true history of the Rift Lords began only recently. It is thought that a new master may have emerged from their ranks, leading the Rift Lords to become more agressive, - attacking Imperial forces more regularly and with greater ferocity.

 

Then, if you wanted to bring the divsion between Maluk and Keja into the article, you still could with a sidebar or something with a discussion/debate between two shadowy characters. Don't give their names but by the way you describe them, anyone reading who knows about Maluk/Keja will know who it's talking about.

 

 

Anyway, just a thought...

Edited June 23, 2010 by Strike Captain Lysimachus

[Ace Debonair]

However, I have one problem. How would anybody outside the RL themselves know who leads them? Given their secretive nature and the very cool ideas that have been knocked about regarding the faceless 'Voice' characters, why would they then have revealed Maluk and Keja? Surely for an enemy, whether Imperial or another renegade, that would make them a clear target for assassination attempts? Perhaps it would be better to keep them more anonymous and hidden, like the rest of the RL command structure?

 

That sounds to me like I've slipped up in the writeup somewhere. Maluk and Keja are well kept secrets to the Imperium, just like the rest of the Rift Lords. I see where you've gotten the idea that this isn't the case, though. Curse my clumsy writing! :rolleyes:

 

Perhaps I should just explicitly state that the names of Maluk and Keja are known only to the Rift Lords and those who work with them?

Seems like the simple solution. :cuss

 

Ferrus, thanks for the readthrough, buddy. I knew there were going to be some mistakes in there, despite me checking it very thoroughly.

Out of the whole section this was the only bit that disappointed me. In my opinion it makes them seem to awesome. I prefered the 'unstable psyker that died and caused the region to become unstable in terms of the veil between the warp and reality' angle that was discussed somewhere in the thread.

I don't know how to pull this off, regrettably.

It basically means adding more psykers to the Rift Lords, or to the Shroud Stars before the Rift Lords get there. If the former, that's tricky. If the latter, I don't think the Rift Lords would research the cause of the warp storms.

 

My idea at the time was to add to the 'surely giving us this is the will of the Gods' air that I wanted in that part, although perhaps it does mean the Rift Lords get 'awesome' down their shirts. ;)

I could just remove the thing that controls the warp storms, I guess, and leave the question of what governs them open.

That seems like the sensible thing to do, at least to my over-worked brain. :cuss

 

Anyone else got any views or opinions on any of this stuff? Let me hear it! :cuss

Edited June 23, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Lysimachus]

That sounds to me like I've slipped up in the writeup somewhere. Maluk and Keja are well kept secrets to the Imperium, just like the rest of the Rift Lords.

 

I figured thats how it was supposed to be. It's just that if you're telling the reader about the RL's most secret stuff, like Maluk and Keja, why is it a mystery where they came from in the first place? I don't see how you can have both without switching PoV half way :D (again, here is where a sidebar can be very useful)

 

I could just remove the thing that controls the warp storms, I guess, and leave the question of what governs them open.

 

Wasn't there some idea of the RL's base being the only producer of arms/armour within the Shroud Stars. Surely the threat of destroying that would be almost as effective a means of control over the other renegades as control of the storms themselves?

[Ferrus Manus]

I could just remove the thing that controls the warp storms, I guess, and leave the question of what governs them open.

That seems like the sensible thing to do, at least to my over-worked brain.

To add to what SCL said, I doubt the warp storms would be too much of a problem for the Lords and the heretical astartes that live in the region, simply cause the warp is governed by the Chaos Gods... so I think they would trust in the Gods to protect them.

 

Plus, I'm sure I read somewhere that Chaos Marines have no fear of the dangers of the Warp, unlike the Imperium, cause of the gifts bestowed on them offer some protection. If that makes any sense.

[Ace Debonair]

That sounds to me like I've slipped up in the writeup somewhere. Maluk and Keja are well kept secrets to the Imperium, just like the rest of the Rift Lords.

 

I figured thats how it was supposed to be. It's just that if you're telling the reader about the RL's most secret stuff, like Maluk and Keja, why is it a mystery where they came from in the first place? I don't see how you can have both without switching PoV half way :( (again, here is where a sidebar can be very useful)

 

Well, that information (where they came from) is privy only to Keja and Maluk, whereas the rest of the stuff is fairly common knowledge within the warband. I see what you mean, though.

I need to find a way to make that apparent (and ideally, doesn't look like a clumsy edit :( ), so I'll think on that for a while.

 

I could just remove the thing that controls the warp storms, I guess, and leave the question of what governs them open.

 

Wasn't there some idea of the RL's base being the only producer of arms/armour within the Shroud Stars. Surely the threat of destroying that would be almost as effective a means of control over the other renegades as control of the storms themselves?

 

It was more for the practical use of the storms as a shield against Imperial assaults than as leverage over other renegades sheltered there, actually.

That said, kicking that particular idea out of the door still seems to be the best route to go down, doesn't it? :D

 

EDIT: Ferrus, you ninja. I suppose in that case I can safely axe the storm-controlling thingummy and have them rely on the Gods. Sounds good, I'll do that in the next update.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[Heru]

In regards to the "control of the warp storms" I agree with Ferrus. The Rift Lords having that and monoploy manufacting ability is very OP.

 

Here is my suggestion.

 

The Rift Lords don't have control of the Warp Storms, what they do have is a method for predicting when and where they will occur, allowing them to plot courses throughout the Shroud Stars safely.

 

Lets say instead of there being a "Warp Storm control device" on the hulk, there is a Daemon trapped in something on board there, and that Daemon is able to predict the Warp Storms, while also preventing others from being able to predict them. What the Rift Lords have done is bend that Daemon to their will.

 

Now what the Rift Lords do is allow their "allies" to communicate with "aircraft control Daemon" for a safe "flight plan". If any of the "allies" try anything against the Rift Lords the ACD gives them a bad flight plan.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Heru Talon

[Ace Debonair]

Heru, nice.

 

I'll sit down later and edit something like that in, if I can find the time. ;)

Rest assured that'll go into the next update.

[Wildfire]

I would just leave anything regarding the warp storms out, other than that they exist. Plenty of other chaos warbands are able to navigate the warp without special help, why do the Rift Lords need it? That they need a daemon to tell them where to fly makes them seem sort of pansy, at least in comparison.

 

Plus, giving them too many special "advantages" makes them seem too uber.

[Ace Debonair]

The reason I say that it's not a problem is because for me it's more an issue with my own preconceptions than it is a real literary problem for your origins. It might be alleviated by alluding to some part of their history that could be linked to them, before they went rogue.

 

A lot of the time it seems like I'm making something out of nothing. I think I was curious to know just who the Rift Lords were before they fell and just what happened to make them go the way they have. Again, this is not something that requires a change, but it could be something to think about.

 

Oops, just spotted this.

 

Before they went rogue?

That stuff about fallen chapters is a decoy, buddy. Don't believe everything you read.

Here's the honest-to-the-Emperor truth of the matter. The Rift Lords are definitely from one of the fallen legions. But, I couldn't pick which one. Moreover, I've never done mystery-history before, so I wanted to take a shot at it.

 

And lastly, I wanted where they came from to be the least important part of the IA. :P

 

 

I would just leave anything regarding the warp storms out, other than that they exist. Plenty of other chaos warbands are able to navigate the warp without special help, why do the Rift Lords need it? That they need a daemon to tell them where to fly makes them seem sort of pansy, at least in comparison.

 

Plus, giving them too many special "advantages" makes them seem too uber.

Touché, sir. Perhaps I'll go with that, just to minimize any 'awesome'. ;)

 

EDIT: Turns out I can't spell 'quote'. :lol:

Edited June 24, 2010 by Ace Debonair

[JaM_TW]

I like the whole setup.

Any ideas about their armour/colours ?

Full chaos outfit, or mix-and-match Imperial/chaos stuff ?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I did think at one point that they could look like a 'reversed' 13th company. Simply for the fact that if you look less menacing, people might actually want to join you a bit more.

 

Other than that, how spikey can you get? :woot:

[Ace Debonair]

I like the whole setup.

Any ideas about their armour/colours ?

Full chaos outfit, or mix-and-match Imperial/chaos stuff ?

Check the first post of this topic for a cool picture of a typical Rift Lord. :tu:

 

As far as model appearance... Chaos marines who don't look like obvious villains, so less spikes. Beyond that, I don't know. Gah, I'm too tired to have good ideas right now. :lol:

[Heru]

I would just leave anything regarding the warp storms out, other than that they exist. Plenty of other chaos warbands are able to navigate the warp without special help, why do the Rift Lords need it? That they need a daemon to tell them where to fly makes them seem sort of pansy, at least in comparison.

It's not really about the Rift Lords, it's about the Shroud Stars. What could be said is that the Warp Storms keep just the Imperium and various Xenos out, but what stops another Warband with it's own manufacturing ability (lets say Iron Warriors) from stomping in and just squashing the Rift Lords?

 

If the Rift Lords are top dog of the Shroud Stars region they need a reason beyond "manufacturing ability". They aren't a huge warband so they don't have that running for them either. Heck they didn't even come to the Shroud Stars at full strength, how did they even wrest control of that region from the buggers who would likely of been there first? It's a ship graveyard someone must of had reason to go into the region, unless of course they aren't actually Warp Storms*.

 

* = Perhaps the region is more like the Bermuda Triangle, maybe they aren't Warp Storms, but in fact Warp Funnels that drag ships in from all over the Sector and deposit them in the Shroud Stars, or even also drag things out of the Shroud Stars (two way funnel). Even if you are Chaos Marine with no fear of the Warp**, getting dragged half way across the Sector wouldn't be fun, even assuming their ship survives the gravimetric stresses such an ordeal would put them through.

 

** =

I doubt the warp storms would be too much of a problem for the Lords and the heretical astartes that live in the region, simply cause the warp is governed by the Chaos Gods... so I think they would trust in the Gods to protect them.

There are four Gods, and they do not get along. Heck their followers don't even get along when they worship the same God. There is no yellow brick road for anyone when traveling through the Warp. Only during the Horus Heresy was the Warp becalmed to allow the Traitor Legions passage (and even then the Death Guard got thrown into Nurgle's playpen).

[Wildfire]

It's not really about the Rift Lords, it's about the Shroud Stars. What could be said is that the Warp Storms keep just the Imperium and various Xenos out, but what stops another Warband with it's own manufacturing ability (lets say Iron Warriors) from stomping in and just squashing the Rift Lords?

 

Because the supply lines would be very long back to the Eye, and easily cut off. We're talking about local manufacturing capability, which was the whole point.

 

Heck they didn't even come to the Shroud Stars at full strength, how did they even wrest control of that region from the buggers who would likely of been there first? It's a ship graveyard someone must of had reason to go into the region, unless of course they aren't actually Warp Storms*.

 

That's a good question, actually. Perhaps they weren't top dog initially, having to bribe and fight their way unntil they were owed enough favors to take out their rivals.

[Heru]

It's not really about the Rift Lords, it's about the Shroud Stars. What could be said is that the Warp Storms keep just the Imperium and various Xenos out, but what stops another Warband with it's own manufacturing ability (lets say Iron Warriors) from stomping in and just squashing the Rift Lords?

 

Because the supply lines would be very long back to the Eye, and easily cut off. We're talking about local manufacturing capability, which was the whole point.

I wasn't talking about supply lines, I was talking about mobile manufacturing ability. Everyone would be stuck forever in the Eye if everyone only had static manufacturing ability. The Iron Warriors were an example of a Chaos Legion that likely doesn't go anywhere without their own forgeships (they aren't going to ship the parts they need to super fortify their worlds all the way from the Eye).

[Brother Argent]

As a side note when I first suggested the Ship Graveyard idea to Ace that was in part what I meant. Basicaly 'Warp Funnels' as you put it, dragging ships from alll over the place. Of course that is what I thought Warp Storms basically were, the raw Warp spilling over into the Real World.

[Wildfire]

It's not really about the Rift Lords, it's about the Shroud Stars. What could be said is that the Warp Storms keep just the Imperium and various Xenos out, but what stops another Warband with it's own manufacturing ability (lets say Iron Warriors) from stomping in and just squashing the Rift Lords?

 

Because the supply lines would be very long back to the Eye, and easily cut off. We're talking about local manufacturing capability, which was the whole point.

I wasn't talking about supply lines, I was talking about mobile manufacturing ability. Everyone would be stuck forever in the Eye if everyone only had static manufacturing ability. The Iron Warriors were an example of a Chaos Legion that likely doesn't go anywhere without their own forgeships (they aren't going to ship the parts they need to super fortify their worlds all the way from the Eye).

 

It would still take time to find a suitable world, impress local citizenry into producing raw materials, stockpile enough supplies to start fortifications, build fortifications, etc. During which time they are vulnerable to a force that already has this taken care of.

 

That's my view. You may disagree.

[Ace Debonair]

As a side note when I first suggested the Ship Graveyard idea to Ace that was in part what I meant. Basicaly 'Warp Funnels' as you put it, dragging ships from alll over the place. Of course that is what I thought Warp Storms basically were, the raw Warp spilling over into the Real World.

 

Ah, I was just thinking a big chunk of once-civilised space that was consumed by warp storms and is occasionally visited by Imperial ships trying to explore the area. Obviously, the exploration doesn't go exactly as planned, but there are bigger tragedies in the Imperium on a daily basis, so nobody really has much time to spare to go and see what happened.

 

And in a hundred years or so, the whole cycle repeats. ;)

 

It's not really about the Rift Lords, it's about the Shroud Stars. What could be said is that the Warp Storms keep just the Imperium and various Xenos out, but what stops another Warband with it's own manufacturing ability (lets say Iron Warriors) from stomping in and just squashing the Rift Lords?

 

If it's not a large warband, I wouldn't put money on the Iron Warriors. The Rift Lords have help from other warbands, and if they're fired up with the promise of looting some original-legion quality gear, I suspect they'd go to it with a will.

 

If it is a large warband/entire legion, then there isn't really anything Maluk can do that will bring a victory. Iron Warriors, as per the example, are probably the best legion for defending supply lines and whatnot, so the Rift Lords wouldn't even be able to harass them much.

 

So now I need a reason why none of the original legions* would bother stomping in and taking the Shroud Stars for themselves. Tricky.

Or, a good way of keeping the legions out of the Shroud Stars. Ideally, one that hasn't washed itself in 'awesome'. :tu:

 

*Or any other famous chaos forces. Personally I think the Rift Lords could beat anyone but the legions, but I'm biased.

 

Thinking cap on for me this weekend, in short. :P

[Wildfire]

How about the simple fact that there's plenty of other places easier to conquer than the Shroud Stars? I mean, why fight a tough opponent (who isn't really even an enemy) if you don't have to?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

What about trading information/slaves for not being stomped or other favours from the legions. That and what Wildfire said.