ZONKEY Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Is cypher the dark angels primarch ...my bet is no cause why would a primarch need to hide away from the chapter nut they insist that he is the primarch of the chapter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pueriexdeus Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 I would venture to say no. Reading the latest offerings from the Black Library from the HH novels, Cypher is a position as opposed to a person, though yes their is a person who is the Cypher. Of note (without trying to give it away) the latest known Cypher was not a Dark Angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Lemur Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 No one knows for sure what/who Cypher is. Supposedly, the Lion is being tended by the WitD in some forgotten part of the Rock. *maybe spoiler* The recent DA books, especially Fallen Angels, seem to imply that Cypher is the last Lord Cypher of the Heresy era DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Cypher is too short to be a primarch. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Belial Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Not to mention there is plenty of canon sources that say exactly where the primarch is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG42 Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 I would venture to say no. Reading the latest offerings from the Black Library from the HH novels, Cypher is a position as opposed to a person, though yes their is a person who is the Cypher. Of note (without trying to give it away) the latest known Cypher was not a Dark Angel. Cypher was a position within the order. The one roaming now is the one from HH time, and he was brought up through the ranks and became a DA. Last known survivor from the Knights of Lupos I believe was mentioned in Fallen Angels. Zahareils discussion with Luther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Bloodwolf Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 I would venture to say no. Reading the latest offerings from the Black Library from the HH novels, Cypher is a position as opposed to a person, though yes their is a person who is the Cypher. Of note (without trying to give it away) the latest known Cypher was not a Dark Angel. Cypher was a position within the order. The one roaming now is the one from HH time, and he was brought up through the ranks and became a DA. Last known survivor from the Knights of Lupos I believe was mentioned in Fallen Angels. Zahareils discussion with Luther. I always thought the Knights of Lupos where cool, course anyone wearing power armor (even a primitive version of it) and a wolf pelt at the same time is cool to me. Sorry I know this has nothing to do with the topic ;). Anyway as others have said 1 Cypher is too short to be the primarch, I believe he was in the old CSM codex and his stats didn't reflect being a primarch, if he was The Lion why would his own chapter be hunting him and hate him? and in the HH books it is a title held within The Order (does anyone remember what the person who actually holds the title is supposed to do? I forgot?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Lemur Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 It seems like he was the one who studied all the histories and made sure the Knightly Order, and later the Chapter, didn't lose sight of where it came from. Like a lore keeper or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Just because the body is in Hiding and being attended to, dosn't mean the "soul" or his mind is not else where. With the power of the Emperor anything can happen. Why the DA would be hunting down thier Primarch? To keep their shame secret. Maybe the Inner Circle know who Cypher is, and want their Primarch back, or they are pissed that their Primarch works for the other side. Maybe they do not know that Cypher is their Primarch. Guess they will feel like crap when they find out they killed their Primarch. How Ironic that would be eh? Maybe that is their redemption. To kill the one who started it all. For as to what I believe. I do not think Cypher is The Lion. He is to weak to be a primarch, but then again, just as he is about to be defeated, he disapears, so either the Emperor or the Powers of Chaos is keeping him alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevulf Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Cypher is not our Primarch. No one knows who Cypher is. At least we know where is the Primarch. from the 2nd Ed Angels Of Death Codex: "The only people who know about the disastrous events that took place on Caliban all those millennia ago are the Emperor and the Dark Angels themselves. The Dark Angels will never reveal the truth to anyone outside the Chapter for they could not bear others to know the truth of their terrible shame. And all the while, deep within his cell, Luther, the betrayer, speaks of what is to come. Yet even the highest ranking Dark Angels do not know everything, although they may think that they do. Buried even deeper within the Rock, is the final, greatest Secret of the Chapter. Only one person in the entire universe knows the truth - the Emperor himself. For hidden inside a secluded, unreachable chamber at the heart of what was once the planet Caliban, Lion El'Jonson lies sleeping, waiting with the Watchers in the Dark for that time when he will be needed once again to defend the Imperium against it's enemies." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Librarian Hesperos Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 IMO, no, cypher is not the Lion, he may be a psychic manifestation but that is doubtful. I could have sworn that cypher was a DA, i will need to recheck that though. Also the last lord cypher did use dual pistols so i think they are one and the same. though he sided with the lion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSpirit Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Cypher is not our Primarch. No one knows who Cypher is. At least we know where is the Primarch. from the 2nd Ed Angels Of Death Codex: "The only people who know about the disastrous events that took place on Caliban all those millennia ago are the Emperor and the Dark Angels themselves. The Dark Angels will never reveal the truth to anyone outside the Chapter for they could not bear others to know the truth of their terrible shame. And all the while, deep within his cell, Luther, the betrayer, speaks of what is to come. Yet even the highest ranking Dark Angels do not know everything, although they may think that they do. Buried even deeper within the Rock, is the final, greatest Secret of the Chapter. Only one person in the entire universe knows the truth - the Emperor himself. For hidden inside a secluded, unreachable chamber at the heart of what was once the planet Caliban, Lion El'Jonson lies sleeping, waiting with the Watchers in the Dark for that time when he will be needed once again to defend the Imperium against it's enemies." All the fluff always said that no one knew of our secret, but I've seen DA background on FFG for deathwatch and it seems that there are rumors that some of us turned to chaos and because of that all our deeds in the Great crusade were expunged, thats lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 All the fluff always said that no one knew of our secret, but I've seen DA background on FFG for deathwatch and it seems that there are rumors that some of us turned to chaos and because of that all our deeds in the Great crusade were expunged, thats lame. What do you mean? That the rumours are lame or that the fact that the Lion is in the Rock is lame? The rumours about the DA have been canon for a while as well - even in second edition it was noted that rumours of the Chapter's dark history persist, but that's all they are to most people - rumours and gossip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 everyone knows that cypher is really luthor :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevulf Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 everyone knows that cypher is really luthor :D and he escapes his prison cell in the Rock (as well as his insanity) once in a week and lure Dark Angels just for fun. Because he got bored living closed for a thousand years and figured out that becoming a Cypher would bring him some entertainment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 everyone knows that cypher is really luthor :( and he escapes his prison cell in the Rock (as well as his insanity) once in a week and lure Dark Angels just for fun. Because he got bored living closed for a thousand years and figured out that becoming a Cypher would bring him some entertainment... I think he was only kidding because of the :) For a while I thought that Cypher could be The Lion and the DA were actually the Fallen. I based this on 4th edtion DA codex only because it was all the rescources I have to DA fluff. Now from reading other peoples posts, and reading a bit of fluff from 3rd edtion DA codex, now I see this isn't true. As for Cypher being Luthor? Same reason it can be the Lion. While the physical body isn't them, Their sould or mind could be in the Cypher body. Hell it can even be the Emperor himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Belial Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Except in the old OOP Eye of Terror Campaign Codex has a conversation with Abaddon and the Voice (Cypher). I don't think the Emperor in Spirit would tolerate Abaddon like he didn't tolerate Horus after his treachery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 I'm going to go ahead and guess that Cypher will turn out to be Zahariel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 I'm going to go ahead and guess that Cypher will turn out to be Zahariel. No , it's the last Lord Cypher . Nobody knows who he is so .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG42 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I'm going to go ahead and guess that Cypher will turn out to be Zahariel. I can't see it being Zahariel, here's why. In Fallen Angels, in Luthers office there were Cypher , Israfael , Astellan , Zahariel , and Luther. If you remember when Luther has all those warding spells written on himself Israfael gets upset and starts building his power and also wants to notify the Lion, Cypher puts a plasma pistol shot into him. Cypher is the last surviving Knight of Lupos, but have never given his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Lemur Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I just want to know why our codex says that Cypher is seen wearing green armor. Was that a misprint? Wouldn't the Heresy-era Cypher wear the original black armor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 It's not a misprint, for whatever reason Cypher does indeed have green armor as per official art of him as well as the Eavy Metal painted Cypher model. As for his identity, I understand that the PH Cypher being Cypher seems obvious but I just have a feeling that he will die and Zahariel will become the 40k Cypher as a plot twist. I know that this isn't a very convincing argument, but it just seems to me that from a storytelling perspective he is being groomed to be a character that survives the Heresy, and I think they will want to link him to some extant fallen, which would pretty much have to be Cypher as he is the only well known fallen save Astellan. Guess we will find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Since the DA have changed their colours, why wouldn't Cypher? Dosnt' he consider himself a DA after all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Because the fallen are generally disgusted with what they see the DA as having become? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkreig Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Because the fallen are generally disgusted with what they see the DA as having become? Yeah but we don't exactly know if Cypher is one of the Fallen do we? Just because the DA are hunting him doesn't mean he allied himself with Chaos..... He could be leading them to other fallen, using himself as bait...... He could be leading them to strategically important worlds in the war on Chaos...... the only thing more mysterious than Cypher's identity, are Cypher's motives! Personally, I'm of the theory that Cypher is an unnamed (by which I mean to the reader of a Heresy-era story he would be Dark Angel #4358) Dark Angel who sided with Luthor during the Heresy, saw the error of his ways and is the first true repentant chaos marine. He took the name and persona of Cypher as an act of repentance and now does everything he can to make sure the DA hunt the Fallen wherever they hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.