How do BA deal with Thunderwolf Cavalry and Lord?

[Yochanan]

Hi everyone,

 

My first game with blood angels army is going to be against a list that runs the following unit:

 

Wolf Lord - Runic Armour, Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Thunderwolf Mount, 2x Fenrisian Wolves, Saga of the Bear

5 Thunderwolf Cavalry - 1 Power Fist, 1 Melta Bomb, 1 Storm Shield, 1 Bolter

 

I have absolutely no idea how to deal with it, ignore it etc. I know strength 10 instant kills them which is why I've put together something with Mephiston and Honor Guard with fists, but if they get the charge, which they probably will with their range, I think it will get torn apart.

 

Mephiston

Honor Guard

Jump Packs

Storm Shields x4

Power Fists x4

Chapter Banner

 

Any suggestions?

 

Cheers

[Nax]

May want to save the 100 points on 4 Fists. Honor Guard with Fists will only be Str8 base, and Str9 on the charge. They won't ID the Wolves. Usually I find its easier and safer to just shoot the holy hell out of them. Fear of the Darkness also works wonders

[JamesI]

Welcome to the B+C Yochanan.

 

So you are aware, it is against B+C rules to list the points for upgrades, just give unit totals.

 

My recommendation for Thunder Wolves is either hit them with a Furioso with blood talons, or Vindicator shells. Really the best answer is kill them with shooting.

[TrentL]

When in doubt a fast S10 pie plate (Vindicator) is the way to go!

[Godhead]

Just be aware that if you are firing the vindi at the TWC, then you are in threat range from the calv busting up your vindis. IMO shoot them. They will die if you make them take armor saves. You don't need to try to ID them. TWC have multiple wounds and use the wound allocation shinanegans out the wazoo, but their small squad size makes them vulnerable to massed fire. Heck guard with 1st rank fire, 2nd rank fire with 50 some lasgun shots can take out a huge chunk from a full twc squad.

[GlauG]

For what it's worth, Lemartes + 4 Death Company with 1 Power Weapon nearly managed it on their lonesome when the Wolves charged THEM, with Dante having nerfed the Lord. Lemartes alas only made 6 out of the 7 invun saves he needed to tie them up for another round and potentially kill them all at I... Had I got the charge, I'd have killed them all, most likely.

[Anarchyman99]

You could go with twin LC's so with the charge your S5 with reroll to wound add a cheap Chap for reroll to hits.....rinse and repeat

[Murphestus]

You are on the right track with the HG.

 

I'd drop two fists and go with a pair of melta guns. You want to try and take off a couple of wounds on the way in.

 

Mephiston is a great equalizer but you can get even more pain dished out by taking a regular lip and a chap in that HG squad. That way you're re-rolling misses with your Str 10 attacks and the rest of the HG.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If you want to tailor your list specifically against Thunderwolves then one or two Vindis would be very helpful as will Mephiston. Make sure to charge Mephiston into a Thunderwolf without the power fist and charge another model into the Wolf Lord so your opponent cannot put it in b2b contact with Mephiston.

 

0b :P

[Yochanan]

Thanks for the help. I'll definately try out 3 Vindicators.

 

How's this sound: if I go first advance 6" try to hit them on their line (probably won't happen but if I get a lucky scatter). Hit them full blast second turn.

If they go first, I'll hit them once and take the charge. Thing is they'll have to deal with the Vindicators. I'm sure they'll kill one but then I assault with squad X to mop up what the Vindicator's didn't kill.

 

I'm thinking 3 Vindicators should drop 3+ wolves in a round of firing? (scatter depending of course), but I'm hoping for this on average. The squad will have a couple wolves and the lord left. Now I need a squad that can really clean them up on the charge with Strength 10. Suggestions? I'm not a fan of DC, especially with Jump Packs. I want a JP squad that can do this for sure.

[Yochanan]

Here's a 1750 list I'm thinking of. The Honor Guard upgrades are getting a little out of hand though.

 

1 Mephiston 250

5 Honor Guard + jumppacks + 3 meltaguns + 2 power fists + chapter banner + 3 storm shields=360

10 Assault Squad + 2 meltaguns +powerfist =235

10 Assault Squad + 2 meltaguns +powerfist =235

10 Assault Squad + 2 meltaguns +powerfist =235

Vindicator 145

Vindicator 145

Vindicator 145

 

Things I'm uncertain about: should I roll with Mephiston or a Chappy with the Guard?, I really could use another Honor Guard unit or a Sanguinary Priest, is 3 Vindicators too many?

[Redo]

James I and a few others have suggested a vindicator. This is sound advice. You should be moving that Vindi at over 12" so that if the TWC go for the tank they only hit on 6s. To tell you the truth if you get one good shot off and the remaining TWC go for the vindi that is their lost as it will save your infantry and let them get another round of shooting off before charging.

 

The Bood Talons Furioso is also a killer, especially if it is a DC one on the charge. S7, I5 and 5 attacks on the charge. This fine fellow and an adequately equipped HG should really thin their numbers after the vindi has fired.

[Grey Mage]

Dante- using his mask on the WL, and a small honor gaurd squad could probly get them without to many problems- set up a juicy target like a tactical squad, then counter-assault them. Or launch them out a Thunderhawk at them.

 

Shell them to death with a vindicator.. though the range is the same as a TWC charge, so that can be tricky.

[JamesI]

Dante- using his mask on the WL, and a small honor gaurd squad could probly get them without to many problems- set up a juicy target like a tactical squad, then counter-assault them. Or launch them out a Thunderhawk at them.

 

Shell them to death with a vindicator.. though the range is the same as a TWC charge, so that can be tricky.

The thunderwolf charge is not guarenteed 24 inches though. You can hold back and hope they don't get a good fleet roll, plus take advantage of the fast moving only get hit on 6s defense.

[Grey Mage]

Dante- using his mask on the WL, and a small honor gaurd squad could probly get them without to many problems- set up a juicy target like a tactical squad, then counter-assault them. Or launch them out a Thunderhawk at them.

 

Shell them to death with a vindicator.. though the range is the same as a TWC charge, so that can be tricky.

The thunderwolf charge is not guarenteed 24 inches though. You can hold back and hope they don't get a good fleet roll, plus take advantage of the fast moving only get hit on 6s defense.

Well, and fair enough- having fast vindicators really does make that a viable tactic.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

James I and a few others have suggested a vindicator. This is sound advice. You should be moving that Vindi at over 12" so that if the TWC go for the tank they only hit on 6s. To tell you the truth if you get one good shot off and the remaining TWC go for the vindi that is their lost as it will save your infantry and let them get another round of shooting off before charging.

 

Just to clarify, though I think you do already know:

 

0" - auto hits

>0 - 5.99" - 4+

6 - 11.99" - 6

12 - 18" - 6

 

so you don't need to go faster than just over 6" to get the best defence. ;)

[Redo]

James I and a few others have suggested a vindicator. This is sound advice. You should be moving that Vindi at over 12" so that if the TWC go for the tank they only hit on 6s. To tell you the truth if you get one good shot off and the remaining TWC go for the vindi that is their lost as it will save your infantry and let them get another round of shooting off before charging.

 

Just to clarify, though I think you do already know:

 

0" - auto hits

>0 - 5.99" - 4+

6 - 11.99" - 6

12 - 18" - 6

 

so you don't need to go faster than just over 6" to get the best defence. ;)

 

 

Ahh! you've got me there. Mistype and daydreaming. I had meant over 6". Good correction.

 

Though I am of the opinion that;

>0" to 6" is 4+ to hit

>6 is 6 to hit...

I am pretty sure but could be wrong. Again.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Three vindicators are overkill. Two is nice.

 

My analysis of Space Wolves is as follows when they run Thunderwolves. They will probably have to 2-3 squads of Long Fangs and you can't touch them while the Thunderwolves are protecting them. This is why a unit of Vanguard veterans are so useful... They should be able to come in by turn 3 tops & snipe one squad of Long Fangs. One squad of Long Fangs are not half what are two squads - you really want to shut them down as quickly as possible. The Stormraven is another great choice versus Space Wolves. Load it full of assault terminators with a chaplain and a Priest, and hold them in reserve. A good mix is three termies with thunderhammer/stormshield & two with pairs of lightning claws. They can really hurt a squad of Thunderwolves and you want to make sure you get off the charge.

 

What you don't want to do is end up using all of your army fighting the Thunderwolves. It's easy to make this blunder and you will invariably lose when this happens.

 

0b ;)

[Yochanan]

Three vindicators are overkill. Two is nice.

 

My analysis of Space Wolves is as follows when they run Thunderwolves. They will probably have to 2-3 squads of Long Fangs and you can't touch them while the Thunderwolves are protecting them. This is why a unit of Vanguard veterans are so useful... They should be able to come in by turn 3 tops & snipe one squad of Long Fangs. One squad of Long Fangs are not half what are two squads - you really want to shut them down as quickly as possible. The Stormraven is another great choice versus Space Wolves. Load it full of assault terminators with a chaplain and a Priest, and hold them in reserve. A good mix is three termies with thunderhammer/stormshield & two with pairs of lightning claws. They can really hurt a squad of Thunderwolves and you want to make sure you get off the charge.

 

What you don't want to do is end up using all of your army fighting the Thunderwolves. It's easy to make this blunder and you will invariably lose when this happens.

 

0b ;)

 

Yeah, I figured as much. I'll probably try out two and see how that works. I don't want to make an anti-Thunderwolves list but I don't want them running around ruining my day. Ideally units that are versatile enough to deal with many things, and conveniently enough, Thunderwolves would be what I'm going for. That terminator squad sounds interesting. How would you equip a VV squad to snipe the long fangs squads?

 

@Redo: the dreadnought is a pretty solid suggestion too. Not realy sure how I would work it into a list.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here is how I would equip VV to snipe Long Fangs:

 

- jump packs {for Heroic Intervention}

Sergeant/power fist & stormshield

Veteran #1/lightning claw & stormshield

Veteran #2/lightning claw & stormshield

Veteran #3/bolt pistol & chainsword

Veteran #4/bolt pistol & chainsword

 

0b ;)

[Zealadin]

I just wanted to point out that according to most the SW players I see on forums the very sight of Mephiston will make them wet themselves, instantly winning you the game.

If they have more self control then Mephiston will just (with terrible rolls at best) kill their entire army in a round or two, winning you the game anyway.

[GlauG]

I just wanted to point out that according to most the SW players I see on forums the very sight of Mephiston will make them wet themselves, instantly winning you the game.

If they have more self control then Mephiston will just (with terrible rolls at best) kill their entire army in a round or two, winning you the game anyway.

 

 

Unless they run a Wolfy version of Razorback spam (which seems popular on both sides of London), in which case all that las/plas and rending Assault Cannon fire will do him some mischief. And by that I mean kill him in a single term's fire.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I think that 5 or 6 men DC with Lemartes are a solid unit to kill some wolves, even if not all of them. First, shoot them with Vindicator shells, then clear the table with Lemartes´ deadly retinue. Add a powerweapon here and there. Their WS 5 will help to hit better, and the rerolls for both failed hits and wounds will do their part as well.

 

Here would be my favourite load-out:

6 DC

JP

2x PW

Lemartes = 390 pts

 

As they will be heading for the next unit, it would be wise to make sure that the closest unit are the Thunderwolves. Thanks to the Jump-packs, they are fast and have a decent chance of getting the charge, and all of them hitting with S and init 5, Lemartes even faster with init 6 is a threat for every unit.

On the other hand, your opponent will try everything to shoot this unit into the ground, therefore the Longfangs should be eliminated by turn 2.

 

 

Snorri

 

Edit:

Corrected the number of marines in the squad.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Since the SW player is only taking one stormshield for his thunderwolves it will be much easier to remove them from play.

 

0b

[Godhead]

Meh, I never only take 1 ss for my twc. I run one shield bearer, and I put a shield on my TH TWC, then the lord or wgbl also run with a shield. So thats 3 shields in my squad. They are quite nasty to take down. Meph is tough, but not OMG the sky is falling the sky is falling tough. With a rune priest close enough, meph loses alot of his bit. Take away his str 10 or his rerolls and then he doesn't kill nearly as many as one would think. I still say shoot them.