Defining the quantity of DC Dreads

[Gv0zD]

A question occurred in my local gaming community.

 

We get a DC Dread for every DC model in an army. Lemmy can be included in a DC. So can we count Lemmy as a DC model in terms of defining the quantity of DC Dreads we can take? Or a DC Dread can be included for every five DC marines?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Korloth Darkwolf]

I'd be inclined to say he doesn't count as he is a unit of "Lemartes" and not an additional "Death Company".

 

I only count the standard DC marines in my list to work out the number of Dreads.

 

That said I'd be open to a solid argument that he does count as it would save at least 20 points in my lists!

[Brother Landrain]

Further you can also ask is DC Tycho count towards dreads...

 

But then who uses Tycho since he can't actually join the death company that he joined to become DC Tycho...

[Gv0zD]

Tycho can't join DC, so he's out of question. But Lemmy is included in DC. And the rule for DC Dread says 1 can be taken for 5 DC models (not marines). And that was the point. I'd go with 5 marines for a Dread, to avoid any misunderstanding. But since Lemmy is a part of DC, he can be counted as DC model (why wouldn't they write "marine" instead of "model"?)

[BOBMAKENZIE]

(why wouldn't they write "marine" instead of "model"?)

 

why do they do anything they do? (To agravate me?)

[Deus_Sanguinius]

I'd be inclined to say he doesn't count as he is a unit of "Lemartes" and not an additional "Death Company".

 

I only count the standard DC marines in my list to work out the number of Dreads.

 

 

I would go this way too. Lemartes is a model of Lemartes. Nowhere in the codex stands that Lemmy is a DC model. He is a Lemartes model. So I would say he is no DC model in terms of defining the quantity of DC Dreads we can take.

 

Cheers

Sang

[Dhx711]

Here's my logic on the situation (which is not to say it's correct).

 

If a unit of DC (atleast the first 3) must be fielded to get Lemartes and he must be part of the unit (if taken) then I'd count him towards the DC Dred requirements.

 

By the same token I really think DC Tycho is supposed to be part of the DC unit (I know, no IC status usually means can't join another unit) since there is a restriction on 1 DC unit only (unless Astorath is on the board) that all DC must join. I think the IC part was left out so no one can say "He's an IC" and have he leave the DC company to join another unit.

[SamaNagol]

You can look at it one of 2 ways.

 

Look at it like Corbulo who counts as a Sanguinary Priest in your 1-3 allocation.

 

Or look at it as something else which just happens to be part of a DC unit.

 

I don't have the BA dex to hand so I can't go through the exact wording with a fine toothed combed, but I always counted him as a 'DC Model'.

[Judaz]

But if we count all DC models, we could have 7 DC marines, Lemartes, DC Tycho and a DC Dread. Thats 10 models, give me another DC Dread!

[Gv0zD]

The question arose when someone asked if DC Dread should be counted as" a DC model", since it was Death Company Dread. But the DC dread is a DC Dread and not DC. And Lemmy is a part of DC, so literally he is a DC model. :)

@ SamaNagol : Corbulo is a good example, btw.

[JamesI]

Personally, I am of the opinion that Lemartes does not count towards the number of DC models. Partly because Lemartes does not replace a DC (it is legal to have 30 DC and Lemartes in a single squad).

 

But it is at best questionable.

[shatter]

lemartes, while he can join the death company, he is not a death company model. Death company models have the statline shown in the death company entry. This is quite similar to the HG upgrades for champions and novitiates argument. Which label or title is a Death Company/Honour Guard refering to? The unit entry or the model with the statline? Most people say the statline is what matters. Both Death Company and Honour Guard (models) have a specific statline... so, if one thinks novitiates and champions do not get HG wargear options, to be consistent, you shouldn't qualify Lemartes as a DC model.

Those same people that say it's okay for Lemartes to be a DC model should also have no qualms about buying him upgrades from their list... which is of course a No.

 

pg 89 c:BA

You can include one death company dreadnought for every 5 death company models in your army.

 

I think that's for the number of guys with the death company entry statline.

[Gv0zD]

@ shatter : now that's a good point! I should have thought of the statline. This clarifies the situation.

 

So, in case of both Corbulo and Lemartes, they can join the certain squads, but still retain their unique status and do not count as regular models of the respective squads.

[Dhx711]

Will GW Cust Care give rule clairications if called?

[SamaNagol]

Corbulo however does not follow that rule. He counts towards the 1-3

[JamesI]

Corbulo however does not follow that rule. He counts towards the 1-3

It also specifically says he counts as part of the 1-3. Lemartes does not state he counts as part of the 3-30.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I see Lemartes as the functional equivalent to a sergeant... so as far as I'm concerned he counts as a DC Marine for determining the # of DC dreads you can field .

 

G B)

[shatter]

I see Lemartes as the functional equivalent to a sergeant...

 

I agree, functionaly, he is exactly that x 5!

 

 

so as far as I'm concerned he counts as a DC Marine for determining the # of DC dreads you can field .

 

G :lol:

 

Err... despite the single statline in the Death Company entry?

 

I don't agree with this for the reasons I stated above. While you can add stuff to the DC, including ICs or a special character without the IC rule, it doesn't change the numbers of Death Company models.

[Plague Angel]

Yeah, I'm with Shatter and James and the others on this.

 

OP asked, why does it say "Death Company model" and not "Death Company marine." Well, because "Death Company model" has a very specific meaning. It's talking about one of these guys:

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m990148a_99120101084_BADeathCompany3_873x627.jpg

 

Now fluffwise, Lemartes is part of the Death Company sure. Ruleswise, he's a unit-upgrade character for a Death Company unit. But he is not a "Death Company model." Rather, he's a "Lemartes model." As James pointed out, he's not part of the 3-30, so he's not part of the 5 Death Company model requirement to unlock a Dread option.

[Gv0zD]

Well, actually, Lemmy is not even an upgrade (unlike Blood Champion), he's just a different unit that can be fielded only with the DC. But aside of this fact there is nothing that states that Lemmy is a DC model. He's not a part of 3-30 limit, he has his own statline. So I would go with the fact that Lemmy is not a DC model, hence he can not be counted to define the quantity of available DC dreads.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Does Lemartes reroll both hits and wounds when charging?

 

G :D

[shatter]

*salute*

 

pg43 Lemartes version.

Liturgies of Blood:On a player turn in which they assault,

Lemartes and his Death Company can re-roll failed rolls to hit

and to wound.

 

It's pretty specific about who and only who it helps. Did the FAQ change it?

 

*doesn't look*

[Son Of Moriar]

Personally, I am of the opinion that Lemartes does not count towards the number of DC models. Partly because Lemartes does not replace a DC (it is legal to have 30 DC and Lemartes in a single squad).

 

my understanding is that lemartes is an upgrade for Death Co. so you've paid for the marine and are upgrading him to become Lemartes therefore he's death company.... same with Corbulo you buy the sang. priest and upgrade to Corbulo.

 

but then again I've been awake since 2010 so sleep depravation might be behind my logic....... Roll on End of the month and say hello to the new transport contingent of my army He He he

 

 

Also; can Blood Angels use the new Achilles Land Raider, that's gonna be a shiny transport for my Vanguard

[Gv0zD]

Neither Lemartes nor Corbulo are upgrades. They are unique characters that can be fielded only within the certain units. However Crbulo replaces the priest, while Lemartes is 'an addition' to DC. An example of upgrade is Blood Champion, however, he loses 'honour guard' trait when the upgrade is taken.

 

:to: BA can't use Achilles, as they are not mentioned in Achilles' datasheet (or whatever that pdf-download is callled). And why do you intend to use it with vanguard? :tu:

[Son Of Moriar]

BA can't use Achilles, as they are not mentioned in Achilles' datasheet (or whatever that pdf-download is callled). And why do you intend to use it with vanguard? :rolleyes:

 

take the jump packs off and transport gets a 35point discount perhaps???? thought that was obvious... our club players are pretty reasonable with regards to vehicles ie a space wolf player can use Leman Russ's if the opponent agrees. they see it as a challenge.

 

and if anyone gets snippy; the chapter changes to "Harbingers of Absolution" with lots of counts as models. (An Imperial Guard player is usually the only one to spit his dummy coz he reckons only he should be allowed tanks!!)