Lords of Shadow and Hunters of Truth

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Alright, the Lords of Shadow are my main DIY chapter. This is the beginning of their IA -

History

Although the exact Founding of the Lords of Shadow is unknown, it is widely assumed that they belong to the 13nth Founding for their records and records of them start a few centuries after it. Due to the lack of information surrounding their Founding, the Lords of Shadow geneseed is also unknown. Both the adepts of Mars and the apothecaries of the Lords of Shadow have tested it for the markers of other well known geneseed.

The earliest records indicate some kind of struggle, possibly due to unforeseen geneseed issues, as well as some failure recorded in the journal owned by the Chapter Master, Garth Xin. The journal went on to indicate that the losses were 'severe', so Garth 'swallowed his pride' and asked for the help of the Hunters of Truth chapter, an Ultramarine successor, speculated to be chosen because of their close proximity to the Lords of Shadow. Impressed by the humility of the Lords of Shadow, the Hunter's Chapter Master, Delgeon, began sending a supplementary force to each Lords of Shadow understrength companies. Further journal entries detail a strong rapport growing between the chapters.

When the Lords of Shadow are full strength again, they return the favor and send ten squads, one from each company, each sent out to fight alongside various forces of the Hunters of Truth. Although squads are rotated out due to casualties and so that the marines can observe chapter tradition, there are always ten squads assisting the Hunters for an entire century.

After the end of the century, the ten squads are recalled to the Lords of Shadow, but soon after those squads are asking to go back and assist the Hunters of Truth. The call goes out from the entire chapter, most of which have serve alongside the Hunters at some point. Garth Xin, who has now been coordinating his chapter alongside Delgeon for four centuries at this point, is surprised and pleased at these requests. Delgeon is also beset by a number of squads who also wish to continue serving alongside the Lords of Shadow, and after agreeing, it eventually becomes common practice for the chapters to send supplementary forces to each other.

After being chapter master for almost six hundred year, Grath Xin is mortally wounded in battle, and out of respect he is interred in a dreadnought. He asks that half his dreadnought be painted the green of Hunters of Truth, to honour his long career and mostly successful career alongside Delgeon, who is killed seventy two years later. Both chapters are moved by this, and the Lords of Shadow unamiously agree to do the same for their own armour. The Lords of Shadow amor is never change again in their history.

A few centuries after the 23rd Founding, a chapter, Burning Swords, established in the 22nd Founding rebels in it's entirety. The Lords of Shadow and the Hunters of Truth send accompanying forces, led by Captain Recaird of the Lords of Shadow and Captain Mrikre of the Hunters of Truth, respectively. They join the many other forces of the Imperium tasked with destroying the rebels, with Lord Inquisitor Amrak in overall command.

The Burning Swords call on a few allies of their own, including a small force of Alpha Legion. It is widely suspected by the Inquisition the appearance of the Alpha Legion and the cause of the Burning Swords rebellion is linked, although there has been no evidence found to support this theory. In a single engagement most of these Alpha Legionaires are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos, and so gather the interest of the Inquisition attached to the campaign.

The investigating Inquisitor studies the geneseed of the Alpha Legion, with the aid of a 'volunteered' Magos Bioligis from a nearby Forgeworld. The Magos, one Mrathron Fulkair, notices the Alpha Legion's geneseed is uncannily similar and could easily be a base for the Lords of Shadow geneseed, although the Lords of Shadow geneseed is considerably mutated from the common points. Mrathron sees oppurtunity in this, for while the geneseed is similar, he doubts that the adepts of Mars would allow the chance of traitorous geneseed being used. The adepts of Mars are not on the Eastern Fringe, however, and with the growing threat of Tyranids and the expanding empire of the Tau Mrathron decides to have the Lords of Shadow indebted to the him.

A Lord of Shadow apothecary is called in, and told to examine the two geneseed. After making the same discovery as the Magos, he shakily informs Captain Recaird. Captain Recaird informs the Chapter Master, and after all the Lords of Shadow on the cmpaign have been given the order to recall the council of captains convenes. Magos Mrathron Fulkair and the captains of the Hunters of Truth are permitted to attend. After a few hours, the captains mutually agree to gather the Lords of Shadow and go on a final, redemption crusade.

This is not what Mrathron intended, and the Hunters of Truth refuse to accept that the Lords of Shadow will martyr themselves. Their arguments become increasingly irrational and agitated, even stating that they will not believe that the geneseed matches. It is Mrikre who desperately convinces Captain Recaird that it is possible to prove your loyalty, and in return Recaird convinces the majority of the Lords of Shadow council. The Chapter, however, is not convinced, but he is willing to accept it as a possibility, and if he was wrong, all space marines die in battle regardless. One way or another, the Lords of Shadow would be redeemed.

The Magos also states that if the wider Imperium learns of this they would certainly destoy the chapter. They would not even be given the chance to launch a crusade, and at this realisation it is unanimously agreed that silence must be kept. Mrathron would assist in blocking others from making the same discovery. To do this effectively, the Magos stated, he would need to do so from his laboratory in the Forgeworld, and he would, of course, need to be protected.

The Ninth company, and later elements of the expanded 10th, were assigned to protect the Forgeworld, and Mrathron was given two codes. The first was a distress code of the Lords of Shadow, treated by the chapter as above Alpha Class priority. The second code was a warning signal - if the wider Imperium ever discovered the Lords of Shadow's secret, the Magos would know immediately through an extremely extensive series of automated searches and failsafe viruses that tracked all the information about the Lords of Shadow and who was using it.

So the Lords of Shadow returned to their homeworld, and when the chapter was finally assembled, they were told of their geneseed. The effect was not immediate - for several seconds, the marines simply stared at the chapter master. Then one reached out to the nearby wall, all protocol forgotten as he leaned against the wall for support. Within seconds all discipline had broken as marines fell to their knees, turned to their sagging brothers for support and removed their helmets to wipe the tears from their eyes. A few, the closest to the chapter master, shouted that he was lieing, but the chapter master merely bowed his head. It was the Master of Sanctity and the Master of the Apothecarion who came together and confirmed the chapter master's words.

Eventually, order was established once more, as eventually the battle brothers turned to their sergeants, who in turn looked to their captains. As they had been at the original council, the captains managed to slowly calm down their companies. The Chapter Master then told the chapter of their new deployments, their new duty - to pitch themselves in the worst combats, to fight the hardest wars, so that the warriors of the Emperor who weren't tainted, who didn't need redemption would not have to.

Perhaps the only thing that kept the chapter alive for the next few decades was the Hunters of Truth. They never once faltered in aiding the Lords of Shadow, keeping to the old ways of the chapters fighting alongside each other, even though the Lords of Shadow asked many times that the Hunters of Truth wouldn't endanger themselves by fighting in such suicidal battles. The Hunters declined every one of those requests, stating just as often it was for these battlefields that the Adeptus Astartes were created.

Eventually the Lords of Shadow moved out of their suicidal mindset, and began to recover. This process was aided by the fact that very few of the battle-brothers who had been there when the wider chapter was told, including the chapter master, were still alive, and under the new leadership of Chapter Master Recaird the Lords of Shadow began to thrive once more.

Beliefs

- Two main beliefs developed after the Lords of Shadow discovered their geneseed, the first being...

- The Cult of the Crusade, who believe that the Lords of Shadow should embrace death in battle. Followers of the Cult are usually marked by a Death Seal (purity seal) or a winged skull. They have labelled the first company the Cursed, because they have failed to embrace death.

- The most extreme members of the Cult tend to ignore battle plan, and have to be restrained by the more tempered members of the Cult. If Redemptionists attempt to hold them back, they are merely shaken off and cause them to run to death all the faster.

- The Redemptionists, who believe that the Lords of Shadow should earn redemption not in death but in deeds. Unusually, the chaplains who follow this wear a knight helmet, to associate their image with the crusade. They do this because the crusade is death to them and they believe in a chance of survival. The Redemptionists are typically identified by having little to no ornamentation on their armour, unless they are of the first company (who they call the Forgiven).

- The Redemptionists tend to be more level-headed, but are either unusually hopeful or mellow. Among greener members it can be quite annoying, but age and experience usually lessens the excessive emotion of a Redemptionist, to the point that most veteran Redemptionists are accounted as extremely callous and cynical.

- The First Company is known as the Forgiven or the Cursed. The majority of the First Company are Redemptionists, although there is usually a few squads who belong to the Cult of the Crusade.

- Regardless of belief, all Lords of Shadow not in the First Company have a black sword as their chapter symbol, which symbolises them, a weapon with the stain of their geneseed. The Redemptionists of the First Company bear white swords instead, as they have proven themselves loyal beyond a shadow of a doubt. Those of the First Company who follow the Cult wear dark red swords instead, to symbolise that despite being washed in blood they have still not embraced death and are stained.

- All Chaplains come from the First Company, as only they have proven their loyalty, and so only they can be trusted not to spread corruption.

- Librarians and Apothecaries are all Redemptionists. Librarians because they know of the Warp and what comes after death, Apothecaries because only Redemptionists have the motivation to become Apothecaries. Librarians are also already considered Forgiven, regardless of belief, simply because they and they alone have the ability to be touched by the Emperor as diviners and pierce the future by his will on Terra. Since they can be contacted by him, and not be killed by his power, they are clearly free of the Emperor's anger.

Orginisation- The Lords of Shadow have a similar structure to the Codex.

- Instead of typical squad designation, however, a tactical marine's lower right leg armour will be painted the designated squad colour, the colour depending on your position within the company. The most veteran tactical squad is usually designated gold, second most veteran silver, newest tactical squad white, with red, yellow, and brown being used for the other three tactical squads, also based on seniority. Assault and Devastator squads have Gold and Silver on their lower left leg instead of lower right legs, and Command squads have no markings at all. The Captain makes his own decision on heraldry. The 8th company is spread out amongst the battle companies, and all their marines have black lower right leg armour. The 9th Company has four additional colours, as they are completely assembled on one Forge World.

The above system is mostly because that's how I decided to paint my Lords of Shadow force, I have no real fluff reason for it besides perhaps they are unworthy of using the Codex.

- Because of the fatalistic nature of those who follow the Cult of the Crusade, which make up the majority of the Lords of Shadow's marines, the chapter requires a higher rate of recruits into the chapter. As well as ensuring the Battle Companies have a large scout support, the 10th Company also protects Mokratee, the Forgeworld on the Eastern Fringe housing the Magos Bioligis, along with the 9th company.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

I think this is an interesting concept. The one thing that stops me while I was reading this is that there aren't any known Chapters of the 13th Founding. A returning Chapter of the thirteenth should receive more explanation.

[CantonWC]

Hmm I find myself liking this Chapter concept. Just a few things:

 

- 13nth Founding, geneseed unknown (at point of creation, testing does not match to any geneseed that the Lords of Shadow apothecaries can readily identify).

 

A Chapter would not know they are from the 13th Founding, maybe falsified records?

 

I don't know if Night Lords suffer from visions like Konrad Curze did, maybe you could have it as a gene-seed flaw?

 

Have these guys unconsciously developed a preference for terror and psychological warfare like their, uh, parents? What is their general personality like? How have they changed after the reveal?

[Apothete]

13nth Founding, geneseed unknown (at point of creation, testing does not match to any geneseed that the Lords of Shadow apothecaries can readily identify).

 

The Chapter Apothecarium is not the one who tests for known matches, the Magos Genetor or Biologis of the Adeptus Mechanicus would. They're going to have genetic signatures for every loyalist Legion and Chapter and, quite possibly, the ones for the Traitors as well. I wouldn't expect them to have usable geneseed for those who turned their backs on the Imperium but it's not like they won't know how to interpret something that comes from the major lines.

 

Using the Thirteenth Founding gives you some leeway in having their origins be shrouded in mystery, but you're going to need a good explanation for not tithing geneseed or sending in material that doesn't raise any eyebrows.

 

Struggled early in their history, so swallowed their pride and asked for the help of the Hunters of Truth chapter (DA successor). Impressed by the humility of the Lords of Shadow, the Hunter's chapter master began sending a supplementary force to each Lords of Shadow understrength companies (which was all of them). Establishes a rapport between the chapters.

 

What does their actual parent Chapter think of this? How does it affect relations with their progenitors, those of their geneline (if they have contact with any), the forces with which they fight, and those who they're protecting? It's not as if a Chapter failing early in its history is a vote of confidence in the eyes of those who would, fairly certainly, be watching.

 

Also, how do the Hunters of Truth manage to spare Marines in order to send them to fight for others when they're a Dark Angels successor and thus, unless derelict in their sworn duty, they're going to have to have Marines dedicated to the search for the Fallen already? It's not like any successor from that particular heritage is going to be brimming with spare bodies.

 

When the Lords of Shadow are full strength again, they return the favor and send ten squads, one from each company, out to fight alongside various forces (the Lords of Shadow squads are seperated so that 10 forces would benefit) of the Hunters of Truth for a century (squads are rotated back in forth due to the casualties inflicted on the squads).

 

If I follow this sentence, you're saying that the Lords - a Chapter that loses so many bodies that they had to ask for help - send out a squad from each of their Companies for a century. Each squad is sent to a different Company of the Hunters, though I find it unlikely that even allies would be allowed to serve with the First or Second because of their special role in the heirarchy of Dark Angels successors.

 

Why would the Hunters risk the potential of an outsider discovering the shame of the Fallen? Why would they court the wrath of the other successors and their parent Chapter?

 

Original chapter master (the one who asked for the Hunter's help in the first place) is mortally wounded in battle, after living a very long and mostly successful life, and out of respect he is interred in a dreadnought. He asks that half his dreadnought be painted the green of Hunters of Truth. Both chapters are moved by this, and the Lords of Shadow unamiously (sp?) agree to do the same for their own armour. The Lords of Shadow color scheme changes to this -

 

Is this Chapter Master the leader of the training cadre that founded them or is he a recruit trained by them? Some people might claim it's a relatively minor point, but I think that it ties back in with what I asked you earlier about their roots and the nature of the veterans who would be raising the aspirants in the first place.

 

How can you claim that he's lived a "mostly successful" life when he had to go ask another Chapter to bolster his ranks because his Marines weren't good enough to do the job on their own? You give us no reason to suspect anything but incompetence at this point because the nature of their struggle, as you put it, is not defined at all. Unless they're facing insurmountable odds (in which case, a more senior and established Chapter seems to be called for, rather than recruits), this isn't much a confidence builder.

 

You might also want to come up with something to explain how they get away with changing their colors, since a great deal of animism and superstition surrounds the arming ceremony, the wargear itself, and the handling of armament and armor both on and off the field of battle. This would likely be even more potent and hard to overcome with Dreadnoughts, as they're incredibly rare and difficult to come by for even powerful, established Chapters, and they're the resting places of revered heroes and great warriors.

 

A few centuries after the 23rd Founding, a chapter, Burning Swords, established in the 23rd Founding rebels in it's entirety. Lords of Shadow and the Hunters of Truth send a force large enough to put down the rebels along with any allies they might have. The Hunters of Truth command suspect Fallen responsible, so also call for a few other Dark Angel successors to aid them if it is.

 

You skip approximately five thousand years right here, if you didn't know.

 

What have the two been doing in the meantime, how have the intervening millenia shaped their outlooks, their attitudes, their practices and rites, and their interactions with one another, their respective ancestries, and the rest of the Imperium? Why is it that the Hunters call for other successors to come bail them out, rather than applying their own knowledge and ability to contain the threat, then offer the Fallen back to the Dark Angels once they've won? There's no sense of scale here to tell us that help is needed, except that you say that they call on others without explaining why it's important.

 

Also, even if they like the Lords, they're not likely to trust them enough to risk discovery. It's not even about their own safety, it's a problem for the Dark Angels and every successor if this secret is discovered, which is why you don't see any divergent successors in the codex.

 

On a more general note, why wouldn't conventional forces become involved if a Chapter has been shown to go rogue? The Inquisition would likely want a piece of the action, along with the Imperial Navy for bombardment, interdiction, and blockade duties, any Chapters that might have grievance against the Burning Swords would love to get revenge, and it would thus be the kind of thing that's difficult to hush up and keep internal to the Dark Angels successors. This is a nightmare situation and would probably warrant a huge, coordinated response from anyone available, both from the Imperium and those who want the Fallen to be kept secret.

 

Nobody wants rogue Space Marines loose to do as they wish, but the Dark Angels really, really, really don't want anyone to know about Luther's followers. This is so big we'd have heard about it by now unless it was completely hushed up, and even then it would rate mention in the Dark Angels codex.

 

The Burning Swords call on a few allies of their own, including a small force of Night Lords. In an engagement, most of these Night Lords are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos, and so gather the interest of the Hunters of Truth apothecary. He is a veteran and due to the practice of attaching a Lords of Shadow force to his own has had to harvest their mysterious geneseed often. He finds it identical to the Night Lords. He reports this to the commanding Hunter of Truth, and confusion ensues.

 

Loyalist Traitors? Really?

 

Eventually word gets out to the Lords of Shadow and the other Dark Angel successors. After much silencing of the ranks, the commander in charge of all the Lords of Shadow decides to take the chapter on a final crusade to do as much damage to the enemies of the Imperium before being wiped out. Distraught, the Hunters of Truth command do everything they can to try and convince the Lords of Shadow to do otherwise, but fail.

 

How does a lineage steeped in concealing a huge and highly dangerous secret from everyone but their own progeny leak something like this? It's not that plausible, considering they've kept the Fallen a secret even through abandoning battlefields, leaving engagements, and allowing Imperial forces to die so that they could give chase.

 

Despite bonds of brotherhood that you're trying to establish here, I don't see the Hunters begging Night Lords (that's what they'd seem to be), to stay put. If anything, the logical conclusion for the Hunters is that the Lords of Shadow are in fact a plant meant to sabotage loyalist Chapters, a ploy by the Ruinous Powers with a the long game outlook. They're possibly even in league with the Fallen, making a mockery of their friendship and the hunt for those who turned against the Lion.

 

The other Dark Angel successors, worried about what the Hunters of Truth would do if the Lords of Shadow were destroyed, deliberate over what to do. Eventually they decide to take a major risk by showing them an example of not only a chapter but several with tainted geneseed who continue to fight instead of simply choosing death... the Dark Angels and their successors.

 

Why would the Hunters do anything? They have their own demands on their time, their own committments to the others looking for the Fallen, and surely even their own secrets to be protected.

 

Their actions in revealing the Fallen to an entire Chapter would be the most grievous sin imaginable, and I could see an attempt to discredit and possibly even eliminate them both as a way to keep the knowledge from being spread any farther. Dark Angels successors don't even trust their own Brothers to know the truth, requiring elevation into the initiated and long experience before they'll take that risk and that's within their own ranks. How could a Chapter steeped in that culture possibly be so blind?

 

The Lords of Shadow stop their actions in the face of this huge, huge secret being revealed to them. They are advised to keep their own geneseed a secret, like the Dark Angels have, and eventually they agree to.

 

The Dark Angels geneseed is not a secret. They're descended from Lion El'Jonson, the First Legion and the first amongst the creations of Him on Earth. I'm not at all sure where it is that you're getting the impression that they're hiding their origins or their geneleine.

 

The campaign is quickly finished after that, and the Lords of Shadow begin to seek out Night Lords as their favoured targets, but try and keep the appearance that nothing has changed. The Lords of Shadow command decide not to tell new recruits of the major secrets of the chapter (or that of the Dark Angels) and after a few centuries only the very highest in the chapter know.

 

It's just a shame that the Hunters of Truth couldn't manage to keep their mouths shut, since the needless complication and breach of security is a problem that I could see leading to extreme, wide-ranging censure from the other successors and the Dark Angels themselves.

[Leonaides]

unfortunately DAT, there are several issues here... Some of which are already pointed out to you above. That being the case, i'm not commenting further until you finish/sort out/understand where you went wrong with the other chapters you've still got on the go. Its getting a bit tedious saying the same sort of thing every time tbh. Creative juices good, inability to finish a job bad.

[Telveryon]

While I do agree what Apothete said, I enjoyed the this idea until this bit...

- The Burning Swords call on a few allies of their own, including a small force of Night Lords. In an engagement, most of these Night Lords are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos, and so gather the interest of the Hunters of Truth apothecary. He is a veteran and due to the practice of attaching a Lords of Shadow force to his own has had to harvest their mysterious geneseed often. He finds it identical to the Night Lords. He reports this to the commanding Hunter of Truth, and confusion ensues.

This is where it all goes south. Having them clear Loyalist Traitors is rather tacky (though, at the end of the day, it's still a better explanation then most). I'd recommend that instead of making their Gene-seed identical, to make just eerily similar. It should be more then enough shame for a truly loyal chapter.

 

 

How does a lineage steeped in concealing a huge and highly dangerous secret from everyone but their own progeny leak something like this? It's not that plausible, considering they've kept the Fallen a secret even through abandoning battlefields, leaving engagements, and allowing Imperial forces to die so that they could give chase.

 

Despite bonds of brotherhood that you're trying to establish here, I don't see the Hunters begging Night Lords (that's what they'd seem to be), to stay put. If anything, the logical conclusion for the Hunters is that the Lords of Shadow are in fact a plant meant to sabotage loyalist Chapters, a ploy by the Ruinous Powers with a the long game outlook. They're possibly even in league with the Fallen, making a mockery of their friendship and the hunt for those who turned against the Lion.Why would the Hunters do anything? They have their own demands on their time, their own committments to the others looking for the Fallen, and surely even their own secrets to be protected.

 

Why would the Hunters do anything? They have their own demands on their time, their own committments to the others looking for the Fallen, and surely even their own secrets to be protected.

 

Their actions in revealing the Fallen to an entire Chapter would be the most grievous sin imaginable, and I could see an attempt to discredit and possibly even eliminate them both as a way to keep the knowledge from being spread any farther. Dark Angels successors don't even trust their own Brothers to know the truth, requiring elevation into the initiated and long experience before they'll take that risk and that's within their own ranks. How could a Chapter steeped in that culture possibly be so blind?It's just a shame that the Hunters of Truth couldn't manage to keep their mouths shut, since the needless complication and breach of security is a problem that I could see leading to extreme, wide-ranging censure from the other successors and the Dark Angels themselves.

But these two points made by Apothete are also absolutely critical! If you wish to get anywhere with these chapters, you'll have to fix these issue.

[Ace Debonair]

- A few centuries after the 23rd Founding, a chapter, Burning Swords, established in the 23rd Founding rebels in it's entirety. Lords of Shadow and the Hunters of Truth send a force large enough to put down the rebels along with any allies they might have. The Hunters of Truth command suspect Fallen responsible, so also call for a few other Dark Angel successors to aid them if it is.

- The Burning Swords call on a few allies of their own, including a small force of Night Lords. In an engagement, most of these Night Lords are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos, and so gather the interest of the Hunters of Truth apothecary. He is a veteran and due to the practice of attaching a Lords of Shadow force to his own has had to harvest their mysterious geneseed often. He finds it identical to the Night Lords. He reports this to the commanding Hunter of Truth, and confusion ensues.

I'll bet it does.

How the AdMech didn't spot obvious Night Lords would be one of the topics of the day, I reckon. :D

 

That said, I find that to quite an intriguing take on the old twist.

But I did facepalm mightily because I should have seen that coming from the non-too-subtle clue in the name. ;)

- Eventually word gets out to the Lords of Shadow and the other Dark Angel successors. After much silencing of the ranks, the commander in charge of all the Lords of Shadow decides to take the chapter on a final crusade to do as much damage to the enemies of the Imperium before being wiped out. Distraught, the Hunters of Truth command do everything they can to try and convince the Lords of Shadow to do otherwise, but fail.

Interesting. I liked this bit.

When I read about this, I felt certain we were about to see the friendship between these two chapters drift apart and end in a suitably grimdark state.

 

Instead, though, we get...

- The other Dark Angel successors, worried about what the Hunters of Truth would do if the Lords of Shadow were destroyed, deliberate over what to do. Eventually they decide to take a major risk by showing them an example of not only a chapter but several with tainted geneseed who continue to fight instead of simply choosing death... the Dark Angels and their successors.

- The Lords of Shadow stop their actions in the face of this huge, huge secret being revealed to them. They are advised to keep their own geneseed a secret, like the Dark Angels have, and eventually they agree to.

- The campaign is quickly finished after that, and the Lords of Shadow begin to seek out Night Lords as their favoured targets, but try and keep the appearance that nothing has changed. The Lords of Shadow command decide not to tell new recruits of the major secrets of the chapter (or that of the Dark Angels) and after a few centuries only the very highest in the chapter know.

Which basically means your entire chapter as a is now a DA Inner Circle. :P

 

I sort of expected the DA and all their successors to say 'back off from those no-good traitors or else' to the Hunters, and then the Lords of Shadow getting all grim and miserable because their friends have deserted them and storming off to die heroically.

 

Or even the DA ordering the Hunters to lie, pinning stuff like the fallen on another chapter - maybe a fictional successor of the Hunters of Truth, and swearing the LoS to absolute secrecy in the matter.

 

All in all, though, I quite like this as a rough concept, except for the ending. I just find it extremely hard to credit that a non-DA successor would get any knowledge of the DA's big secret.

I'd also agree on having the LoS with an obviously mutated Night Lord geneseed, so it's less likely the AdMech would actually notice they were traitor successors. ^_^

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Which basically means your entire chapter as a is now a DA Inner Circle.

 

Aaaand here we have a (sorry to say) predictable tripping point for the entire article.

 

I'll not pile on the points others have made but it's so far and away an almost totally unjustifiable occurance it drags all the other work already done down with it. Not a good thing.

 

Also, catagorically stating that your guys are loyalist traitors is not good.

 

If you are going to go a more subtle route with the 'loyalist traitor' thing (I sincerely hope you do), I'd question your desire to make them Night Lords.

 

The Night Lords, even before the heresy were well known for being psychopathic murderers and users of the most horrific of terror-tactics, slaughtering millions during the Great Crusade in many occurrences, just because they could. Diplomacy was dead for them, they killed because they enjoyed it.

 

Everyone loves the Night Lords because they are 'cool'. Do you have a more substantial reason to pick them? In a situation like this the Alpha Legion would be a much, much more suitable choice, given that this sort of infiltration is more their style, and much more worthy of what would have to be the subsequent intrigue within the chapter.

 

That said, I'm a huge fan of the Alpha Legion so my opinion may be somewhat biased. :wallbash:

[Ace Debonair]

Which basically means your entire chapter as a is now a DA Inner Circle.

 

Aaaand here we have a (sorry to say) predictable tripping point for the entire article.

 

I'll not pile on the points others have made but it's so far and away an almost totally unjustifiable occurance it drags all the other work already done down with it. Not a good thing.

Let's be fair. It's not as bad as a teleporting army or a legion of demonic-looking winged custodes. :wallbash:

 

I think that without the LoS ever finding out about the Fallen, there's the makings of a good, solid chapter in here.

Everyone loves the Night Lords because they are 'cool'. Do you have a more substantial reason to pick them? In a situation like this the Alpha Legion would be a much, much more suitable choice, given that this sort of infiltration is more their style, and much more worthy of what would have to be the subsequent intrigue within the chapter.

 

That said, I'm a huge fan of the Alpha Legion so my opinion may be somewhat biased. :pinch:

Night Lords have awesome bat-wing hats. ;)

Alpha Legion do not. :lol:

 

Seriously though. I sort of agree. Just by being Alpha Legion successors, it makes the entire thing reek of conspiracy, and would set up a break between the two chapters in most fantstic fashion.

 

However if DAT does stick with a Night Lord lineage, then curbing the wilder edge of the traditional Night Lord temperament could be explained somewhat by mutated geneseed.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Night Lords have awesome bat-wing hats. :D

 

They are so not awesome.

 

They look more like some kind of ridiculous, futuristic sporting helmet, like super-ping-pong-tennis-something that uses the athletes seriously muscular neck to whip his head around and smack the ball with the wing of his helmet. That's bad.

 

I think we may have to agree to disagree here. :P

[Ace Debonair]

Night Lords have awesome bat-wing hats. :lol:

 

They are so not awesome.

 

They look more like some kind of ridiculous, futuristic sporting helmet, like super-ping-pong-tennis-something that uses the athletes seriously muscular neck to whip his head around and smack the ball with the wing of his helmet. That's bad.

 

I think we may have to agree to disagree here. :P

Pfft. you're just jealous because Night Lords have cooler-looking hats than Alpha Legion. :lol:

But, I agree that DAT should not let the superiority of the NL's headgear influence his decision in any way.

[Blacklight]

They are so not awesome.

 

They look more like some kind of ridiculous, futuristic sporting helmet, like super-ping-pong-tennis-something that uses the athletes seriously muscular neck to whip his head around and smack the ball with the wing of his helmet. That's bad.

 

I'm sorry to interject, but that's hilarious. Sigged!

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Ah, no Dark Angel involvement then. Got it. :D

 

Hmmm... Alpha Legion... Night Lords... Word Bearers... Emperor's Children? I was actually liking Emperor's Children concept wise, it just didn't agree with their stealthy side nearly as much as Night Lords did.

 

[qoute]Let's be fair. It's not as bad as a teleporting army or a legion of demonic-looking winged custodes. [\qoute]

 

The fact that both of those were examples of my ideas is as amusing as it is ridiculus.

 

Hmmmmm... The Lords of Shadow do need something major other than brotherhood to stop them though. I wanted to get across that they were incredibly noble, sacrificing their lives do cleanse this huge stain of their existence, and their brothers would be better off without them.

 

I've got to go, but hopefully I'll get a good idea on this.

 

EDIT: Qoute tags!

[Ace Debonair]

Ah, no Dark Angel involvement then. Got it. :lol:

 

Hmmm... Alpha Legion... Night Lords... Word Bearers... Emperor's Children? I was actually liking Emperor's Children concept wise, it just didn't agree with their stealthy side nearly as much as Night Lords did.

I had Alpha Legion down as pretty stealthy, actually.

But a rather reformed Night Lords successor just sounds like a lot of fun.

[qoute]Let's be fair. It's not as bad as a teleporting army or a legion of demonic-looking winged custodes. [\qoute]

 

The fact that both of those were examples of my ideas is as amusing as it is ridiculus.

That was actually deliberate, to illustrate this could easily work out as being a more reasonable/likely to exist chapter than some of your earlier efforts. (Although the Wraiths got much better after you dropped the teleporting, let me add :P )

 

Basically, it was an attempt at humour... that wound up sounding a lot funnier in my head than on the page. :D

 

Hmmmmm... The Lords of Shadow do need something major other than brotherhood to stop them though. I wanted to get across that they were incredibly noble, sacrificing their lives do cleanse this huge stain of their existence, and their brothers would be better off without them.

 

I've got to go, but hopefully I'll get a good idea on this.

 

EDIT: Qoute tags!

 

You could have the HoT suspect them of being part of a Chaos conspiracy, and have the LoS rush off to prove themselves by killing as many Chaos Marines as they can find. Dunno if it would be better to have the HoT then forgive them or always be suspicious of them. :P

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Nope, the Hunters must remain as brothers to the Lords of Shadow.

 

I was thinking of making it a major campaign, with the Inquisition, Imperial Guard, and other chapters getting involved, and an Inquisitor, charged with investigating a splinter band of Emperor's Children, discovering it instead.

 

Yes, I know the Inquisition's a terrible plot tool, but the Inquisition isn't being used as a power tool, more of what I would actually see happening.

 

EDIT: Made it sound less pathetic...

 

If you guys have any idea as to how they found out about the geneseed, let me know, I'll work it over. Just don't have it do with the loss of brotherhood between the two chapters.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I removed Dark Angel involvement completely.

 

I also rewrote it to be more plausible, although I must leave the computer rather suddenly, I would like you guys to look over the section under the color scheme.

[Ace Debonair]

- A few centuries after the 23rd Founding, a chapter, Burning Swords, established in the 23rd Founding rebels in it's entirety. Lords of Shadow and the Hunters of Truth send accompanying forces, led by Captain Recaird of the Lords of Shadow and Captain Mrikre of the Hunters of Truth respectively. They join the many other forces of the Imperium tasked with destroying the rebels, with Lord Inquisitor Amrak in overall command.

- The Burning Swords call on a few allies of their own, including a small force of Emperor's Children. In an engagement, most of these Emperor's Children are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos, and so gather the interest of the Inquisition attached to the campaign. The investigating Inquisitor studies the geneseed of the Emperor's Children, and on a hunch requestsa sample of the Lords of Shadow geneseed, who comply with great reluctance. He finds it identical to the Emperors Children's. He reports this to the Lord Inquisitor, and confusion ensues.

- Eventually word gets out to the Lords of Shadow and the Hunters of Truth. After much silencing of the ranks, the commander in charge of all the Lords of Shadow decides to take the chapter on a final crusade to do as much damage to the enemies of the Imperium before being wiped out. Distraught, the Hunters of Truth command do everything they can to try and convince the Lords of Shadow to do otherwise, but fail.

- Lord Inquisitor Amrak, who has been informed of the geneseed of the Lords of Shadow and their self destructive intent, visits Captain Recaird personally.

That's more like it. :(

 

The only change I'd reccomend this time is rather than have the geneseed the same, have it so the Lords of Shadow's one is a bit mutated. There'd still be lots of similarities, and the Inquisitor would deduce them to be the same geneseed.

 

Because the geneseed is mutated, and the LoS have no real history of heresy, it'd make the crusade they launch seem a bit more of a needlessly heroic sacrifice, in a good way. And it also leaves the slight possibility that the inquisitor was wrong - which would be horribly ironic and fit the whole grimdark thing perfectly. :P

[Telveryon]

Actually, I think there are still a few issues with this version. First and foremost is this bit:

In an engagement, most of these Emperor's Children are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos

Established fluff says that the Emperor's Children has one of, if the most mutated gene-seed of the Traitor Legions from all the drugs they abuse. Only the Black Legion can compete due to the high incident of possession among their ranks. If memory servers, the legions with the most stable gene-seed are the Night Lords, Iron Warriors and the Alpha Legion.

 

He finds it identical to the Emperors Children's.

This is the second problem. As I said before, stating clearly that your chapter is made of loyalist traitors is tacky. Implying it, however, is both cooler and more plausible. And it would still be enough for the self destructive reaction of your chapter as they would probably see themselves as unworthy of serving the Emperor given who where their progenitors.

 

The investigating Inquisitor studies the geneseed of the Emperor's Children, and on a hunch requestsa sample of the Lords of Shadow geneseed, who comply with great reluctance.

 

...

 

- Lord Inquisitor Amrak, who has been informed of the geneseed of the Lords of Shadow and their self destructive intent, visits Captain Recaird personally.

And this bit just reeks of Inquisitor Ex Machina. Firstly, what logic would make the Inquisitor request the gene-seed sample from the Lords? Even hunches are based underlying, if not immediately apparent, logic. This is completely out of the blue...

 

Secondly, why would Amrak give a damn about the chapter's intents? If anything he should encourage them. After all, any Inquisitor short of a radical would see the Lords as an incredible breach of the Imperium's security.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Actually, I think there are still a few issues with this version. First and foremost is this bit:

In an engagement, most of these Emperor's Children are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos

Established fluff says that the Emperor's Children has one of, if the most mutated gene-seed of the Traitor Legions from all the drugs they abuse. Only the Black Legion can compete due to the high incident of possession among their ranks. If memory serves, the legions with the most stable gene-seed are the Night Lords, Iron Warriors and the Alpha Legion.

 

Gotcha. I think I'll go with Alpha Legion then... The reason I didn't choose them before is they already have their loyalty/traitorism in question, I didn't want the Lords of Shadow to piggyback on that... intrigue? You understand what I'm saying (I hope). That, and the Night Lords and Emperor's Children were both more fitting with their personailty.

 

He finds it identical to the Emperors Children's.

This is the second problem. As I said before, stating clearly that your chapter is made of loyalist traitors is tacky. Implying it, however, is both cooler and more plausible. And it would still be enough for the self destructive reaction of your chapter as they would probably see themselves as unworthy of serving the Emperor given who where their progenitors.

 

I'm going to take your and Ace's advice on this one...

 

The investigating Inquisitor studies the geneseed of the Emperor's Children, and on a hunch requestsa sample of the Lords of Shadow geneseed, who comply with great reluctance.

 

...

 

- Lord Inquisitor Amrak, who has been informed of the geneseed of the Lords of Shadow and their self destructive intent, visits Captain Recaird personally.

And this bit just reeks of Inquisitor Ex Machina. Firstly, what logic would make the Inquisitor request the gene-seed sample from the Lords? Even hunches are based underlying, if not immediately apparent, logic. This is completely out of the blue...

 

Secondly, why would Amrak give a damn about the chapter's intents? If anything he should encourage them. After all, any Inquisitor short of a radical would see the Lords as an incredible breach of the Imperium's security.

1) Inquisitors have the means and the mission to do so, and 2) their geneseed is unknown, which means it ddoesn't match any loyalist geneseed identifyable by the Mechanicus (which is all loyalist geneseed). Whose geneseed does that leave?

 

Amrak is a Lord Inquisitor. This may be an issue of perception, but Lord Inquisitors have defended the Imperium for several centuries, from within and without. They wouldn't be too keen on tossing away a chapter that has proved it's dedication for the past couple millenia.

 

After all, the chapter itself isn't traitorous... It has geneseed that has the majority of it's users are traitorous.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I wrote up some beliefs quickly, it's also on the first post -

 

Beliefs

- Two main beliefs developed after the Lords of Shadow discovered their geneseed, the first being...

- The Cult of the Crusade, who believe that the Lords of Shadow should embrace death in battle. Followers of the Cult are usually marked by a Death Seal (purity seal) or a winged skull. They have labelled the first company the Cursed, because they have failed to embrace death.

- The Redemptionists, who believe that the Lords of Shadow should earn redemption not in death but in deeds. Unusually, the chaplains who follow this wear a knight helmet, to associate their image with the crusade. They do this because the crusade is death to them and they believe in a chance of survival. The Redemptionists are typically identified by having little to no ornamentation on their armour, unless they are of the first company (who they call the Forgiven).

- The First Company is known as the Forgiven or the Cursed. The majority of the First Company are Redemptionists, although there is usually a few squads who belong to the Cult of the Crusade.

- Regardless of belief, all Lords of Shadow not in the First Company have a black sword as their chapter symbol, which symbolises them, a weapon with the stain of their geneseed. The Redemptionists of the First Company bear white swords instead, as they have proven themselves loyal beyond a shadow of a doubt. Those of the First Company who follow the Cult wear dark red swords instead, to symbolise that despite being washed in blood they have still not embraced death and are stained.

- All Chaplains come from the First Company, as only they have proven their loyalty, and so only they can be trusted not to spread corruption.

[Telveryon]

1) Inquisitors have the means and the mission to do so, and 2) their geneseed is unknown, which means it ddoesn't match any loyalist geneseed identifyable by the Mechanicus (which is all loyalist geneseed). Whose geneseed does that leave?

While the Inquisition does have the means to but not the mission. It's not their prerogative to find out to which genetic line does a certain chapter belongs, just to make sure they keep to the straight and narrow. Though, if truth be told, it might be a passion of specific Inquisitor.

 

And to answer your second point... Plenty! Your chapter is from the 13th founding, that's about two millenia after the 3rd Founding. There is enough time for a chapter to be wiped out and records of it to be lost (unlikely, though it might still happen).

 

After all, the chapter itself isn't traitorous... It has geneseed that has the majority of it's users are traitorous.

True, that's why they would be offered a honorable death rather then the standard bolter round to the face.

 

Amrak is a Lord Inquisitor. This may be an issue of perception, but Lord Inquisitors have defended the Imperium for several centuries, from within and without. They wouldn't be too keen on tossing away a chapter that has proved it's dedication for the past couple millenia.

Actually, they would. The general consensus within the Imperium is that the Legions that fell to Chaos, did so because their gene-seed where flawed. The Imperium isn't a place of second chances, if the Inquisition caught wind that a chapter might have Traitor gene-seed they would be pointed to the nearest impenetrable Chaos fortress and tell them to get on with the killing the and heroic sacrificing.

 

Here are two possibilities for you to explore, should you like them:

Firstly. You could have the Inquisitor doing the investigation might be a radical that has yet to start doing funny stuff. He could use the findings to possibly blackmail the Lords into doing some nasty things for him. This version would put considerable pressure on the Redemtionist faction as they would either have to obey the Inquisitor damning them selves all the more, or they would have to get rid of said inquisitor possibly getting into trouble because of it or piling even more shame on themselves because of the underhanded tactics they would most likely have to use.

 

Secondly, Inquisitors themselves aren't exactly experts on genetics, then usually rely on Magos Biologis or Space Marine Apothecaries to do that sort of research for them. You could have the discovery to be made by either an Apothecary of the Lords, who would most likely try to destroy the evidence and this attempt might be discovered by an Apothecary of the Hunters, or by an Apothecary of Hunters, that has seen the gene-seed of the Lords, which would then inform the Lords (this variant is a bit more dodgy then the Lords Apothecary variant).

 

I wrote up some beliefs quickly, it's also on the first post -

 

Beliefs

- Two main beliefs developed after the Lords of Shadow discovered their geneseed, the first being...

- The Cult of the Crusade, who believe that the Lords of Shadow should embrace death in battle. Followers of the Cult are usually marked by a Death Seal (purity seal) or a winged skull. They have labelled the first company the Cursed, because they have failed to embrace death.

- The Redemptionists, who believe that the Lords of Shadow should earn redemption not in death but in deeds. Unusually, the chaplains who follow this wear a knight helmet, to associate their image with the crusade. They do this because the crusade is death to them and they believe in a chance of survival. The Redemptionists are typically identified by having little to no ornamentation on their armour, unless they are of the first company (who they call the Forgiven).

- The First Company is known as the Forgiven or the Cursed. The majority of the First Company are Redemptionists, although there is usually a few squads who belong to the Cult of the Crusade.

- Regardless of belief, all Lords of Shadow not in the First Company have a black sword as their chapter symbol, which symbolises them, a weapon with the stain of their geneseed. The Redemptionists of the First Company bear white swords instead, as they have proven themselves loyal beyond a shadow of a doubt. Those of the First Company who follow the Cult wear dark red swords instead, to symbolise that despite being washed in blood they have still not embraced death and are stained.

- All Chaplains come from the First Company, as only they have proven their loyalty, and so only they can be trusted not to spread corruption.

This bit the quite good! But it could use a bit more conflict, maybe you could have the Crusaders go more "Leroy Jenkins" when in combat with the Redemtionist trying their best to restrain them.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

While the Inquisition does have the means to but not the mission. It's not their prerogative to find out to which genetic line does a certain chapter belongs, just to make sure they keep to the straight and narrow. Though, if truth be told, it might be a passion of specific Inquisitor.

 

As you say, although Inquisitors are unusually open minded for people of the Imperium (unless they are Purists, of course).

 

And to answer your second point... Plenty! Your chapter is from the 13th founding, that's about two millenia after the 3rd Founding. There is enough time for a chapter to be wiped out and records of it to be lost (unlikely, though it might still happen).

 

That's true, but I'm already planning on following a variation of your suggestion below.

 

True, that's why they would be offered a honorable death rather then the standard bolter round to the face.

 

See my below point.

 

Actually, they would. The general consensus within the Imperium is that the Legions that fell to Chaos, did so because their gene-seed where flawed. The Imperium isn't a place of second chances, if the Inquisition caught wind that a chapter might have Traitor gene-seed they would be pointed to the nearest impenetrable Chaos fortress and tell them to get on with the killing the and heroic sacrificing.

 

Again, I don't believe an Lord Inquisitor, who has an incredible amount of experience, would willingly throw away a chapter who up until this point has had a spotless record.

 

Secondly, Inquisitors themselves aren't exactly experts on genetics, then usually rely on Magos Biologis or Space Marine Apothecaries to do that sort of research for them. You could have the discovery to be made by either an Apothecary of the Lords, who would most likely try to destroy the evidence and this attempt might be discovered by an Apothecary of the Hunters, or by an Apothecary of Hunters, that has seen the gene-seed of the Lords, which would then inform the Lords (this variant is a bit more dodgy then the Lords Apothecary variant).

 

Heh, this gave me the mental image of...

 

=][= : Lords of Shadow apothecary, can you help me study this geneseed for a moment?

Apothecary: Anything for the Inquisition! 'examines geneseed'

=][= : Well? Anything unusual?

Apothecary: :D

 

To do a better edition (er, more fitting to the character of the Lords in my head) of your suggestion, instead of attempting to destroy the evidence, he voxes Captain Recaird to tell him, and tells the inquisitor (because he is acting very suspicious at this point). Cue confusion.

 

This bit the quite good! But it could use a bit more conflict, maybe you could have the Crusaders go more "Leroy Jenkins" when in combat with the Redemtionist trying their best to restrain them.

Er.... Leroy Jenkins? This is a reference I have sadly missed :P

[Telveryon]

Again, I don't believe an Lord Inquisitor, who has an incredible amount of experience, would willingly throw away a chapter who up until this point has had a spotless record.

And again I must state that he would, exactly because of that incredible amount of experience which tells him that anyone touched by Chaos has a 99.99% chance or relapsing. We're talking here about the an Inquisition that depopulated a world of billions and critical to the supply of arms to Cadia, who's population fought tooth and nail against a Primarch Demon Prince because they were exposed (notice the word "exposed", not touched) and to make sure that word wouldn't get out that Chaos could strike so deep within the Imperium.

 

Compared to that, sending a chapter with gene-seed that is known to be fatally flawed on a suicide mission is actually sensible.

 

Heh, this gave me the mental image of...

 

=][= : Lords of Shadow apothecary, can you help me study this geneseed for a moment?

Apothecary: Anything for the Inquisition! 'examines geneseed'

=][= : Well? Anything unusual?

Apothecary: -_-

 

To do a better edition (er, more fitting to the character of the Lords in my head) of your suggestion, instead of attempting to destroy the evidence, he voxes Captain Recaird to tell him, and tells the inquisitor (because he is acting very suspicious at this point). Cue confusion.

The first part is rather sensible, the second part makes your chapter look so epically naive it stands out in a setting which has epic as its main building block, a 3 year old could give the Lords a lesson in savvyness.

 

Allow me to elaborate a little... The Dark Angels have spend the last 10000 years hunting down and destroying everyone and everything that might have something to do with the betrayal of the Fallen and their secret isn't half as bad as that of your chapter. Your chapter on the other hand tells their secret to the one institution of the Imperium that was creates specifically to destroy exactly what they are (or might be). That's not a very smart move by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Er.... Leroy Jenkins? This is a reference I have sadly missed :D

Ask and ye shall receive! Leeroy Jenkins!!!

 

Yes I know I misspelled it in the other post!

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I see...

 

Hmmm... Attempt to destroy the evidence... This gave me another mental image...

 

=][= : Lords of Shadow apothecary, can you help me study this geneseed for a moment?

Apothecary: Anything for the Inquisition! 'examines geneseed'

=][= : Well? Anything unusual?

Apothecary: Aha! It appears that you have somehow come across a batch of tainted Lords of Shadow geneseed, let me go remove this, er, blasphemy! 'hurries away'

=][= : Savant, how did we get tainted Lords of Shadow geneseed in the place of the captured Alpha Legion geneseed?

Savant: 'thinks for a moment, then shrugs'

 

Right... I'll go with your second suggestion then...

 

However, the original reason I suggested telling the Inquisitor was because the Lords of Shadow are supposed to be incredibly noble... they've been fighting alongside the Hunters of Truth for a couple millenia at this point... Your suggestion would be necessary, but it would be against their ideals and be very hypocritical.

 

Ah yes, that Leeroy Jenkins -_- Maybe, the extremists I could definitely see doing something like that... The majority of the chapter belongs to the Cult though, so they would lose a lot of men if they all did that.

 

EDIT: Er, forgot to comment?

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Updated beliefs and history, is it better?