Dark Apostle Thirst Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 I'm not sure, that's why I have them as surmised Thirteenth Founding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 How exactly does that help? Even if their origin is not known to the imperium at large, they must still tithe their gene-seed to the AdMEch, who wil ltest them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I have some thoughts on this: I'm wary about the Chapter being formed from the Alpha Legion. First, purists will be quick to stamp down on it. Chapters simply aren't made from Traitor gene-seed, even during the most liberal of Foundings. The Inquisition (who had influence on the 13th Founding from what I've learned) would have had kittens at the very thought. To their eyes the Traitor's gene-seed is irrecoverably tainted. Two, the Alpha Legion gene-seed is something of an enigma. There's at least one documented case of the Alpha Legion manipulating a loyalist Chapter (The Emperor's Swords and stealing their gene-seed. It is possible that the Alpha Legion steals much of its gene-seed from Loyalists, to ensure the Legion isn't warped by Chaos powers. So it would seem to me that you can work with your idea, but alter it. Instead of having the Lords of Shadow outed as an Alpha Legion strain, have their creating be manipulated by the Alpha Legion; when they encountered the Legion in battle many of the battle-brothers turned traitor and joined them. The Alpha Legion intended all of the Lords of Shadow to turn, but the influence of the Hunters of Truth helped save the Chapter, and the LoS turned to its culture of near suicidal penance crusades as a way of proving their loyalty to the Emperor. The scene where the Lords of Shadow learn of their gene-heritage seems awfully melodramatic for a band of warrior-monks. Adeptus Astartes do not get sad. They get even. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, blood for blood and by the gallons. I almost feel like I know more about the LoS's history and that of the Hunters of Truth than their personality. What other unique aspects do they have? What mutations are present in their gene-seed? What's their homeworld like? Try out the Space Marine Chapter Background Generator to build some ideas. You'd be surprised what a few random rolls of the dice can do to give your Lords an extra dash of flavor. I think you've got the foundations for a great Chapter here. Keep at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted May 6, 2012 Author Share Posted May 6, 2012 Trashman - !3th Founding is Cursed Founding, and nobody knows exactly what happened there. All the Admech knows is that it doesn'tt match current strands but seeing as they're loyal the Ad-mech believes that they must simply be a very mutated version of the loyalists - which is not unreasonable given the fact the Fire Hawks burst into flame from their being surmised Thirteenth Founding ;) Sage - I don't want their traitor geneseed to be the focus - I want its effects on the chapter to be the focus. You yourself said that their history overrides their character, and I prefer to keep the whole how the traitor geneseed happened simple and out of focus. Otherwise people will continually poke holes into it like you just did, and that's not the point with the Lords. The point with the Lords is how exactly would you keep a loyal chapter from detroying itself because it has traitor geneseed and what the effects would be to an otherwise normal chapter :) I'll fix everything else that you mentioned. I know the place of the Liber is to improve a peice, and I know that's what you're trying to do, but frankly I think giving a huge explanation on why they have traitor geneseed would be more of a detractor than a help. I appreciate the effort though, really, I do, and the rest is great, I'll get started tomorrow :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeoilSage Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I don't think you have to go into a long explanation about why they have Alpha Legion geneseed, just rewrite it so they have a more standard gene-seed and that it has been targeted or even modified somehow by the Alpha Legion, who were attempting to take it for their own. These are just brainstorming ideas of course. I think it's a good idea to find ways to fit a Chapter into the canon; in my experience it's what sets Codex Approved Chapters from "Fan-fiction" Chapters. What a writer does with his Chapter is ultimately up to him, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Trashman - !3th Founding is Cursed Founding, and nobody knows exactly what happened there. No it's not, 21st is cursed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Trashman - !3th Founding is Cursed Founding, and nobody knows exactly what happened there. All the Admech knows is that it doesn'tt match current strands but seeing as they're loyal the Ad-mech believes that they must simply be a very mutated version of the loyalists - which is not unreasonable given the fact the Fire Hawks burst into flame from their being surmised Thirteenth Founding :o You seem to forget it didnt' end well for the Fire Hawks... Also, there is a big difference between a unknown or experimental gene-seed and a gene-seed from a traitor legion. Every competent Apothacery or Magus Biologos should be able to tell where it came from. The Imperius and Inquisition are very much on the "err on the side of caution" side. They don't like risks. If the gene-seed resembles a traitor legion, it would take some very big migitating circumstances to avoid destruction (or at minimum a Pentinent Crusade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't think you have to go into a long explanation about why they have Alpha Legion geneseed, just rewrite it so they have a more standard gene-seed and that it has been targeted or even modified somehow by the Alpha Legion, who were attempting to take it for their own. These are just brainstorming ideas of course. I think it's a good idea to find ways to fit a Chapter into the canon; in my experience it's what sets Codex Approved Chapters from "Fan-fiction" Chapters. What a writer does with his Chapter is ultimately up to him, though. Merci, mon ami. I like all of those ideas, actually - just not the Lords of Shadow. I'd like to see you implement them though :unsure: Trashman - !3th Founding is Cursed Founding, and nobody knows exactly what happened there. No it's not, 21st is cursed Both 13th and 21st are results of experiments and weirdness by the Ad Mech - the 13th is specifcly mentioned in the Soace Marine Codex as having all of its chapters of the record (hence my avoidance of stating that it 'is' 13th Founding, but having it pretty much solid that they are Thirteenth). Trashman - !3th Founding is Cursed Founding, and nobody knows exactly what happened there. All the Admech knows is that it doesn'tt match current strands but seeing as they're loyal the Ad-mech believes that they must simply be a very mutated version of the loyalists - which is not unreasonable given the fact the Fire Hawks burst into flame from their being surmised Thirteenth Founding ;) You seem to forget it didnt' end well for the Fire Hawks... Also, there is a big difference between a unknown or experimental gene-seed and a gene-seed from a traitor legion. Every competent Apothacery or Magus Biologos should be able to tell where it came from. The Imperius and Inquisition are very much on the "err on the side of caution" side. They don't like risks. If the gene-seed resembles a traitor legion, it would take some very big migitating circumstances to avoid destruction (or at minimum a Pentinent Crusade). This is what I've been considering over the past couple of days. But first let me get what's obvious out of way. 1) And what happened to the Lords was great too? Every one of the Lords is indoctrinated not only with knowledge of who Alpharius was and what he did, but also that they are part of that legacy, and that their only chance at redemption is by either making themselves a First Company veteran (I'm not even going to go over just how hard that is) or dying. Until either of those conditions are fulfilled they are worthless, tools to be sacrificed to save more worthy allies, such as any Imperial Guard unit. Heck, only the Penal Legion is lesser than them, and they are supposed to be the most holy of the Emperor's servants. Their curse is not one of death, or phsyical disability. Their curse is of the soul. 2) They barely kept themselves from campaigning until they were destroyed. Only the Magos kept them from being completely obliterated of their own free will, which leads to 3) The =][= and wider Imperium doesn't know about their traitor geneseed. The chapter keeps the secret to itself and the Magos. I thought this was clarified already, I'll go back and fix that... On any competent apothecary or Magus Biologis beeing able to identify it. Also actually included in the IA - as soon as the two geneseed were put side by side the apothecary realized just what exactly it meant. The thing is, until then no-one had put Lords and AL geneseed next to each other - they were probably afraid the AL would corrupt the Lords', fittingly enough. I honestly can't say why they didn't identify it when they send their geneseed tithes. Ecritter's White Hands have survived without even knowing that they have Word Bearer geneseed and it's in the Librarium. I'm going to trust the wisdom of the Lexicanum who allowed it and do the same for the Lords of Shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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