Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Moving it back to the first page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Moving it back to the first page. Twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 So nobody has anything to say on this? As in it actually works? - The Burning Swords call on a few allies of their own, including a small force of Alpha Legion. In an engagement, most of these Alpha Legionaires are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos, and so gather the interest of the Inquisition attached to the campaign. The investigating Inquisitor studies the geneseed of the Alpha Legion, with the aid of a 'volunteered' Magos Bioligis from a nearby Forgeworld. The Magos notices the Alpha Legion's geneseed is uncannily similar and could easily be a base for the Lords of Shadow geneseed, although the Lords of Shadow geneseed is considerably mutated from the common points. The Magos sees oppurtunity in this, for while similar he doubts that the adepts of MArs would allow traitorous geneseed to be used. The Lords of Shadow, however, would not have such doubts and could be manipulated into protecting the sacred knowledge of the Omnissiah.- A Lord of Shadow apothecary is called in, and told to examine the two geneseed. After making the same discovery as the Magos, he shakily informs Captain Recaird. Captain Recaird informs the Chapter Master, and they mutually agree to launch a crusade to martyr themselves for redemption. - This is not what the Magos intended. He convinces Captain Recaird that it is possible to prove your loyalty. Captain Recaird convinces the majority of the captains, but not the Chapter Master. However, the Chapter Master is willing to accept it as a possibility, and if he was wrong, all space marines die, and thus all Lord's of Shadow will eventually earn redemption regardless. - The Magos also states that he is willing to keep their secret, since he is a firm believer in the Lords of Shadow's chance at redemption while alive. He would also block other's from making the same discovery, because if the information was released, the Lords of Shadow would surely be destroyed... and the Forgeworld would be needlessly lighter in it's defences. To keep doing this, the Magos stated, he would need to have his (immovable) equipment at the Forgeworld, and of course to be protected. - Thus the Ninth company, and later the additional recruits needed to support the chapter, were assigned to protect the Forgeworld. If so... This may be a first. However, if there is something wrong, the past two pages are evidence enough that I am willing to change it. :wacko: After all, it can only improve the Lords of Shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Alrighty then! I've had an idea for a third belief system recently. They are the the Faultless, and are roughly equivalent to a mix of Alpha Legion and Grey Knights in theme - They operate in groups, trying to counter infiltrate the Alpha Legion, but having very limited numbers, because they only accept those who absolutely will not fall to Chaos, and thus have never had a traitor that belonged to that group. If they show even a single sign of doubt, or changing from what allowed them to be accepted into the Faultless, they will rejoin the chapter's orginization. I think counter infiltrating is a poor term, for what I mean. To explain it longer, they seek out Alpha Legion cells that are corrupting the Imperium. They rarely find genuine Alpha Legion - it'll only happen twice in the history of the Faultless - but when they confirm that a cult is being caused by traitor astartes presence, they call in the rest of the chapter to lay the axe down. Their belief system is very different from the rest of the Lords of Shadow, because instead of proving themselves loyal, they try and kill those who are traitorous. Few believe they'll succeed, but all of the Faultless believe it's worth taking the time to try. Their numbers rarely exceed twenty at a time, usually it's more around ten. Most are veterans, and because of that - and the Faultless's reputation for not turning traitor, the chapter master typically has a techmarine assigned to upgrade and mantain their weapons and armour as well as improving them... Which is also widely considered to be a waste, because the Faultless rarely take to the field at all. However, The Chapter Master's have used this as an oppurtunity to create new special weapons. In game, they'll have to be a unique unit that I need to write rules for, to be used with the vanilla codex (as that's the codex I use, none of this Red Thirst nonsense for me :D ). Is this plausible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 This is back to the first page... I'll see if I can write up an update that needs C and C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 They operate in groups, trying to counter infiltrate the Alpha Legion, but having very limited numbers, because they only accept those who absolutely will not fall to Chaos, and thus have never had a traitor that belonged to that group. I think this is very flimsy. You can't tell who absolutely will and who absolutely will not fall to Chaos ahead of time. It's impossible. The Emperor's favoured Son and half of his brothers all turned to Chaos and more than a few of them were utterly dedicated to their father. Their father. We don't actually know what measures the GK take to ensure none of their number fall to chaos. Hell, in the next codex GW could even introduce 'fallen Grey Knights' and fudge the entire deal completely. Their rules making is better but their fluffing is as bad, if not in some cases worse than it's ever been. How in the world do you just 'know' someone is going to remain loyal? No one knew Huron was going to turn to chaos ahead of time and he rose to the rank of Chapter Master! Everyone assumed that Lysander would either be broken, turned or dead from his capture by the Iron Warriors but he has emerged as strong and loyal as ever from his ordeal. It's not like they can hook up a polygraph machine and ask. So just what method do your guys use to determine this absolutely incredible feat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 They operate in groups, trying to counter infiltrate the Alpha Legion, but having very limited numbers, because they only accept those who absolutely will not fall to Chaos, and thus have never had a traitor that belonged to that group. I think this is very flimsy. You can't tell who absolutely will and who absolutely will not fall to Chaos ahead of time. It's impossible. The Emperor's favoured Son and half of his brothers all turned to Chaos and more than a few of them were utterly dedicated to their father. Their father. We don't actually know what measures the GK take to ensure none of their number fall to chaos. Hell, in the next codex GW could even introduce 'fallen Grey Knights' and fudge the entire deal completely. Their rules making is better but their fluffing is as bad, if not in some cases worse than it's ever been. How in the world do you just 'know' someone is going to remain loyal? No one knew Huron was going to turn to chaos ahead of time and he rose to the rank of Chapter Master! Everyone assumed that Lysander would either be broken, turned or dead from his capture by the Iron Warriors but he has emerged as strong and loyal as ever from his ordeal. It's not like they can hook up a polygraph machine and ask. So just what method do your guys use to determine this absolutely incredible feat? Same method for choosing chaplains, if they've lived long enough and haven't turned... Also, there are things you know about a person. That you can simply tell. Maybe it's their undying hatred for Alpharius because he was incredibly (ridiculously) smart and yet dumb enough to turn. Maybe they're logical, and see no sway in turning to Chaos (because ultimately, you will die so someone else can be amused). Maybe they're the very epitome of nobility, or perhaps they are simply too kind (well, protective, think Salamanders) to mortals to ever turn. Regardless, it isn't a matter of seeing the future, it's a matter of being excellent judges of character. If there is even a smidgen of... counter-character? Being hypocritical? If there is even a smidgen of not being true to their character the head calmly explains to them why they are getting kicked out of the anti-terrorism program. Yes, I didn't put the above part in, but I'll do that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Maybe it's their undying hatred for Alpharius because he was incredibly (ridiculously) smart and yet dumb enough to turn. *hefts Fools Bane* Say what now? I know the point of that entire response was not for me to focus on this single point, but I felt I couldn't ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Maybe it's their undying hatred for Alpharius because he was incredibly (ridiculously) smart and yet dumb enough to turn. *hefts Fools Bane* Say what now? I know the point of that entire response was not for me to focus on this single point, but I felt I couldn't ignore it. Er, in the inductee's eyes. Alpharius really had no reason to turn, for those who don't know of the Cabal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Maybe it's their undying hatred for Alpharius because he was incredibly (ridiculously) smart and yet dumb enough to turn. *hefts Fools Bane* Say what now? I know the point of that entire response was not for me to focus on this single point, but I felt I couldn't ignore it. Er, in the inductee's eyes. Alpharius really had no reason to turn, for those who don't know of the Cabal. *lovingly strokes Fools Bane* You have escaped me this time, young one... :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Maybe it's their undying hatred for Alpharius because he was incredibly (ridiculously) smart and yet dumb enough to turn. *hefts Fools Bane* Say what now? I know the point of that entire response was not for me to focus on this single point, but I felt I couldn't ignore it. Er, in the inductee's eyes. Alpharius really had no reason to turn, for those who don't know of the Cabal. *lovingly strokes Fools Bane* You have escaped me this time, young one... :P Bah! I fear not this Fools Bane! What is it, a Battle Barge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Maybe it's their undying hatred for Alpharius because he was incredibly (ridiculously) smart and yet dumb enough to turn. *hefts Fools Bane* Say what now? I know the point of that entire response was not for me to focus on this single point, but I felt I couldn't ignore it. Er, in the inductee's eyes. Alpharius really had no reason to turn, for those who don't know of the Cabal. *lovingly strokes Fools Bane* You have escaped me this time, young one... :P Bah! I fear not this Fools Bane! What is it, a Battle Barge? It's the Pointy Stick Mk. 2TM.. Now with added Hammer attachement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 It's the Pointy Stick Mk. 2TM.. Now with added Hammer attachement. Behold the power of Dark Apostle Thirst! He can erase entire qoute trains with ease, what is this Fools Bane against such ridiculousness? Oh, wait, I see my common sense shaking it's head. Hmmm... I don't think that's a good sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 If there is even a smidgen of not being true to their character the head calmly explains to them why they are getting kicked out of the anti-terrorism program. Doesn't work because people don't work like that. Sorry, I don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 If there is even a smidgen of not being true to their character the head calmly explains to them why they are getting kicked out of the anti-terrorism program. Doesn't work because people don't work like that. Sorry, I don't buy it. People don't... Astartes do. But, since it is an issue, I'll have to... Change how the Faultless work, for lack of better words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 If there is even a smidgen of not being true to their character the head calmly explains to them why they are getting kicked out of the anti-terrorism program. Doesn't work because people don't work like that. Sorry, I don't buy it. People don't... Astartes do. Do they? There are, sadly, exceptions to every "rule". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 People don't... Astartes do. Really? I never knew that, and I bet other people didn't either. And I thought you'd given stating absolutes for the entire shared universe a sidestep with this IA. ;) People don't and Astartes are still people, heavily modified physically and mentally sure, but they are still human in the way they think and feel. The closest example you could give me of an unbreakable individual would be a fanatical religious zealot that is more than willing to die and kill others for their cause (a good comparison to a Space Marine too). They are not unbreakable, merely exceedingly dedicated (or in some cases exceedingly deluded, but that's a bit too topical to go into here). Chaos also works on the principle of corruption from the inside, mostly. Everyone has a dark side and Chaos manipulates that darker side of the human psyche and uses it, which is why it is so insidious and hard to combat through anything else other than sheer terror of reprisal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Oops. Thought I had posted that I would change it :P So I was thinking about it. There is a successor chapter, the Burning Scythes - because, you know, it would like kinda funny if the Lords stopped tithing, and since they have unknown geneseed, it's stored seperately, it woul eventually accumulate to have enough for a new chapter - which is destroyed fairly quickly, but develop enough to believe in the hunt of the Alpha Legion will provide their salvation. Sole survivor is one Captain Dimitri. He is sent to the Lords of Shadow, and his reaction is pure anger at the Lord's of Shadow's belief they are cursed. He refuses a new company, instead taking a few neophytes of similar mindset to him, and asks to train them personally. His iwsh is granted. Under his guidance, the scouts are taught the same belief that the Burning Scythes were taught. Dimitri does this repeatedly, leading the Faultless to take root. However, the Faultless allow only those taught by Dimitri to be Faultless. Of the Faultless, one scout that succeeds in becoming a battle-brother is chosen as Dimitri's personal apprentice on the field of battle. If he lives for five years, he will become a apprentice chaplain of the Faultless. Few of these survive to actually become chaplains, usually only one chaplain of the Faultless exists at any one point, with three apprentices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaren Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 - Assumed 13nth Founding, records start a few centuries after it, and geneseed unknown (at point of creation, testing does not match to any geneseed that the Lords of Shadow apothecaries can readily identify). The 5th Chaos God? Or an enigmatic indicator of your true gene-seed choice? Time will tell... - Struggled early in their history, so swallowed their pride and asked for the help of the Hunters of Truth chapter (an Ultramarine successor, speculated to be chosen because of their close proximity to the Lords of Shadow). Impressed by the humility of the Lords of Shadow, the Hunter's chapter master began sending a supplementary force to each Lords of Shadow understrength companies (which is assumed to be at least seven). Establishes a rapport between the chapters. What did they struggle with that they couldn't handle on their own? Vaguely saying they struggled seems to undermine the abilities of the Space Marines. Perhaps some more detail as what they struggled with, and how they could use this extra assistance? - When the Lords of Shadow are full strength again, they return the favor and send ten squads, one from each company, out to fight alongside various forces (the Lords of Shadow squads are seperated so that 10 forces would benefit) of the Hunters of Truth for a century (squads are rotated back in forth due to the casualties inflicted on the squads). *whistle* 10% of your force eh? They must be seriously serious bros... - Original chapter master (the one who asked for the Hunter's help in the first place) is mortally wounded in battle, after living a very long and mostly successful life, and out of respect he is interred in a dreadnought. He asks that half his dreadnought be painted the green of Hunters of Truth. Both chapters are moved by this, and the Lords of Shadow unamiously (sp?) agree to do the same for their own armour. The Lords of Shadow color scheme changes to this - This is tough, because coloration and such is a mark of their history, their heraldry, and their pride as Astartes. This is perhaps the best reason I have seen to change yet, but still not completely sold. - A few centuries after the 23rd Founding, a chapter, Burning Swords, established in the 23rd Founding rebels in it's entirety. Lords of Shadow and the Hunters of Truth send accompanying forces, led by Captain Recaird of the Lords of Shadow and Captain Mrikre of the Hunters of Truth respectively. They join the many other forces of the Imperium tasked with destroying the rebels, with Lord Inquisitor Amrak in overall command. Barely centuries old and already rebelling? - The Burning Swords call on a few allies of their own, including a small force of Alpha Legion. And after only a few centuries they have allies? Including AL? In an engagement, most of these Alpha Legionaires are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos, and so gather the interest of the Inquisition attached to the campaign. The investigating Inquisitor studies the geneseed of the Alpha Legion, with the aid of a 'volunteered' Magos Bioligis from a nearby Forgeworld. The Magos notices the Alpha Legion's geneseed is uncannily similar and could easily be a base for the Lords of Shadow geneseed, although the Lords of Shadow geneseed is considerably mutated from the common points. So not the 5th Chaos God... Hmmm, I'm normally against traitor gene-seed, but I am withholding judgement atm... The Magos sees oppurtunity in this, for while similar he doubts that the adepts of MArs would allow traitorous geneseed to be used. The Lords of Shadow, however, would not have such doubts and could be manipulated into protecting the sacred knowledge of the Omnissiah. But I don't really get this. What do the AM need protecting that their Skitarii and Legions of Titans can't handle? Having a chapter of Astartes on the take just draws suspicion and causes problems. - A Lord of Shadow apothecary is called in, and told to examine the two geneseed. After making the same discovery as the Magos, he shakily informs Captain Recaird. Captain Recaird informs the Chapter Master, and they mutually agree to launch a crusade to martyr themselves for redemption. Wouldn't this raise suspicion? - This is not what the Magos intended. He convinces Captain Recaird that it is possible to prove your loyalty. Captain Recaird convinces the majority of the cpatins, but not the Chapter Master. However, the Chapter Master is willing to accept it as a possibility, and if he was wrong, all space marines die, and thus all Lord's of Shadow will eventually earn redemption regardless. How would all the Space Marines die? Does he have some doomsday device he plans to detonate if they fail. - The Magos also states that he is willing to keep their secret, since he is a firm believer in the Lords of Shadow's chance at redemption while alive. He would also block other's from making the same discovery, because if the information was released, the Lords of Shadow would surely be destroyed... and the Forgeworld would be needlessly lighter in it's defences. Again... Forgeworld's aren't exactly light on the defenses, and having pet Astartes just causes suspicion. To keep doing this, the Magos stated, he would need to have his (immovable) equipment at the Forgeworld, and of course to be protected.- Thus the Ninth company, and later the additional recruits needed to support the chapter, were assigned to protect the Forgeworld. So is this saying the 9th and 10th are both there, or the 9th is there, with some Scouts? - The Cult of the Crusade, who believe that the Lords of Shadow should embrace death in battle. Followers of the Cult are usually marked by a Death Seal (purity seal) or a winged skull. They have labelled the first company the Cursed, because they have failed to embrace death. How are they still alive if they believe in Death? If they believed that strongly wouldn't they all run off to seek death right away? - The most extreme members of the Cult tend to ignore battle plan, and have to be restrained by the more tempered members of the Cult. If Redemptionists attempt to hold them back, they are merely shaken off and cause them to run to death all the faster. So... Death Company? - The Redemptionists, who believe that the Lords of Shadow should earn redemption not in death but in deeds. Unusually, the chaplains who follow this wear a knight helmet, to associate their image with the crusade. They do this because the crusade is death to them and they believe in a chance of survival. The Redemptionists are typically identified by having little to no ornamentation on their armour, unless they are of the first company (who they call the Forgiven). The Forgiven... I dunno, that draws a lot of parallels to the DA... Needlessly so I think. And what happens to this whole idea once that Magos is dead? Does he pass his knowledge to the next Magos? And if so, what if that Magos doesn't want these possible traitors hanging around? - The Redemptionists tend to be more level-headed, but are either unusually hopeful or mellow. Age and experience usually lessens the excessive emotion of a Redemptionist, but among greener members it can be quite annoying. Not very GrimDarky, hope has no place in the GrimDarkness - The First Company is known as the Forgiven or the Cursed. The majority of the First Company are Redemptionists, although there is usually a few squads who belong to the Cult of the Crusade. Do these names serve any purpose? I dunno, just seems to be named differently for differences sake. Maybe I'm not understanding though... - Regardless of belief, all Lords of Shadow not in the First Company have a black sword as their chapter symbol, which symbolises them, a weapon with the stain of their geneseed. The Redemptionists of the First Company bear white swords instead, as they have proven themselves loyal beyond a shadow of a doubt. Those of the First Company who follow the Cult wear dark red swords instead, to symbolise that despite being washed in blood they have still not embraced death and are stained. See, this is just like the names thing. Astartes are a warrior brotherhood, sworn to each in a bond stronger than family. I see minor ideological differences, maybe. But you are talking entirely new and radical philosophies from each other. Just doesn't seem very viable. Not to mention needlessly complex. - All Chaplains come from the First Company, as only they have proven their loyalty, and so only they can be trusted not to spread corruption. So everyone not from the First Company is corrupt? That seems to be a dangerous attitude... - Librarians and Apothecaries are all Redemptionists. Librarians because they know of the Warp and what comes after death, Apothecaries because only Redemptionists have the motivation to become Apothecaries. Librarians are also already considered Forgiven, regardless of belief, simply because they and they alone have the ability to be touched by the Emperor as diviners and pierce the future by his will on Terra. Since they can be contacted by him, and not be killed by his power, they are clearly free of the Emperor's anger. Belief systems are never so cut and dried. There are always outliers, and the idea that ALL Librarians believe a certain way seems a bit odd. I dunno, all this politicking and rival factions just seems unnecessarily convoluted. - Instead of typical squad designation, however, a tactical marine's lower right leg armour will be painted the designated squad colour, the colour depending on your position within the company. The most veteran tactical squad is usually designated gold, second most veteran silver, newest tactical squad white, with red, yellow, and brown being used for the other three tactical squads, also based on seniority. Assault and Devastator squads have Gold and Silver on their lower left leg instead of lower right legs, and Command squads have no markings at all. The Captain makes his own decision on heraldry. The 8th company is spread out amongst the battle companies, and all their marines have black lower right leg armour. The 9th Company has four additional colours, as they are completely assembled on one Forge World.The above system is mostly because that's how I decided to paint my Lords of Shadow force, I have no real fluff reason for it besides perhaps they are unworthy of using the Codex. And cause Gold is shiny :P - Because of the fatalistic nature of those who follow the Cult of the Crusade, which make up the majority of the Lords of Shadow's marines, the chapter requires a higher rate of recruits into the chapter. As well as ensuring the Battle Companies have a large scout support, the 10th Company also protects Mokratee, the Forgeworld on the Eastern Fringe housing the Magos Bioligis, along with the 9th company. Wouldn't the Cult of the Crusade burn itself out? Their death seeking ideals would see them die off and leave the more pragmatic Redemptionists behind. Eventually all the Crusaders would be dead and the Redemptionists would be the majority, and soon enough, the only cult. Maybe that's just me though... As always DAT, I pull no punches :P Another crazy idea that you formed into an IA haha. This one has a ton of promise and is one of the best Traitor Geneseed ideas I have seen yet. I definitely hope you haven't back burnered these guys yet though. I hope posting 3 months too late is better than never posting :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 - Assumed 13nth Founding, records start a few centuries after it, and geneseed unknown (at point of creation, testing does not match to any geneseed that the Lords of Shadow apothecaries can readily identify). The 5th Chaos God? Or an enigmatic indicator of your true gene-seed choice? Time will tell... Um, time will tell... - Struggled early in their history, so swallowed their pride and asked for the help of the Hunters of Truth chapter (an Ultramarine successor, speculated to be chosen because of their close proximity to the Lords of Shadow). Impressed by the humility of the Lords of Shadow, the Hunter's chapter master began sending a supplementary force to each Lords of Shadow understrength companies (which is assumed to be at least seven). Establishes a rapport between the chapters. What did they struggle with that they couldn't handle on their own? Vaguely saying they struggled seems to undermine the abilities of the Space Marines. Perhaps some more detail as what they struggled with, and how they could use this extra assistance? Or there were many threats to deal with. I'll expand on this. - When the Lords of Shadow are full strength again, they return the favor and send ten squads, one from each company, out to fight alongside various forces (the Lords of Shadow squads are seperated so that 10 forces would benefit) of the Hunters of Truth for a century (squads are rotated back in forth due to the casualties inflicted on the squads). *whistle* 10% of your force eh? They must be seriously serious bros... Was this sarcastic? I'm not entirely sure :) -Original chapter master (the one who asked for the Hunter's help in the first place) is mortally wounded in battle, after living a very long and mostly successful life, and out of respect he is interred in a dreadnought. He asks that half his dreadnought be painted the green of Hunters of Truth. Both chapters are moved by this, and the Lords of Shadow unamiously (sp?) agree to do the same for their own armour. The Lords of Shadow color scheme changes to this - This is tough, because coloration and such is a mark of their history, their heraldry, and their pride as Astartes. This is perhaps the best reason I have seen to change yet, but still not completely sold. What else would help add to this? - A few centuries after the 23rd Founding, a chapter, Burning Swords, established in the 23rd Founding rebels in it's entirety. Lords of Shadow and the Hunters of Truth send accompanying forces, led by Captain Recaird of the Lords of Shadow and Captain Mrikre of the Hunters of Truth respectively. They join the many other forces of the Imperium tasked with destroying the rebels, with Lord Inquisitor Amrak in overall command. Barely centuries old and already rebelling? It doesn't take that long for a chapter to build to full strength... especially with the aid of a few allies... -The Burning Swords call on a few allies of their own, including a small force of Alpha Legion. And after only a few centuries they have allies? Including AL? See above. And it's AL. You don't really expect them In an engagement, most of these Alpha Legionaires are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos, and so gather the interest of the Inquisition attached to the campaign. The investigating Inquisitor studies the geneseed of the Alpha Legion, with the aid of a 'volunteered' Magos Bioligis from a nearby Forgeworld. The Magos notices the Alpha Legion's geneseed is uncannily similar and could easily be a base for the Lords of Shadow geneseed, although the Lords of Shadow geneseed is considerably mutated from the common points. So not the 5th Chaos God... Hmmm, I'm normally against traitor gene-seed, but I am withholding judgement atm... Um, thanks? The Magos sees oppurtunity in this, for while similar he doubts that the adepts of MArs would allow traitorous geneseed to be used. The Lords of Shadow, however, would not have such doubts and could be manipulated into protecting the sacred knowledge of the Omnissiah. But I don't really get this. What do the AM need protecting that their Skitarii and Legions of Titans can't handle? Having a chapter of Astartes on the take just draws suspicion and causes problems. Not necessarily the AdMech, but that particular Forgeworld, for that particular Magos. I wanted to make him a scheming sort, who doesn't see a traitor chapter, he sees an oppurtunity for some personal defence. As time was progressing, the Eastern Fringe was getting more and more dangerous, with the rise of the Tau and the Tyranids beginning to show up. the Magos was worried for his safety, and with the chapter about to throw away their lives, he saw a situation where it would get either bleaker or better. - A Lord of Shadow apothecary is called in, and told to examine the two geneseed. After making the same discovery as the Magos, he shakily informs Captain Recaird. Captain Recaird informs the Chapter Master, and they mutually agree to launch a crusade to martyr themselves for redemption. Wouldn't this raise suspicion? They'd be dead and redeemed. They really wouldn't care. - This is not what the Magos intended. He convinces Captain Recaird that it is possible to prove your loyalty. Captain Recaird convinces the majority of the cpatins, but not the Chapter Master. However, the Chapter Master is willing to accept it as a possibility, and if he was wrong, all space marines die, and thus all Lord's of Shadow will eventually earn redemption regardless. How would all the Space Marines die? Does he have some doomsday device he plans to detonate if they fail. No, but all marines die at some point is what I was getting at. If they died in His service, they would be redeemed. - The Magos also states that he is willing to keep their secret, since he is a firm believer in the Lords of Shadow's chance at redemption while alive. He would also block other's from making the same discovery, because if the information was released, the Lords of Shadow would surely be destroyed... and the Forgeworld would be needlessly lighter in it's defences. Again... Forgeworld's aren't exactly light on the defenses, and having pet Astartes just causes suspicion. See above. To keep doing this, the Magos stated, he would need to have his (immovable) equipment at the Forgeworld, and of course to be protected.- Thus the Ninth company, and later the additional recruits needed to support the chapter, were assigned to protect the Forgeworld. So is this saying the 9th and 10th are both there, or the 9th is there, with some Scouts? The Ninth and some scouts. I'll clear that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 - The most extreme members of the Cult tend to ignore battle plan, and have to be restrained by the more tempered members of the Cult. If Redemptionists attempt to hold them back, they are merely shaken off and cause them to run to death all the faster. So... Death Company? I didn't want to say that, but basicly, yes. - The Redemptionists, who believe that the Lords of Shadow should earn redemption not in death but in deeds. Unusually, the chaplains who follow this wear a knight helmet, to associate their image with the crusade. They do this because the crusade is death to them and they believe in a chance of survival. The Redemptionists are typically identified by having little to no ornamentation on their armour, unless they are of the first company (who they call the Forgiven). The Forgiven... I dunno, that draws a lot of parallels to the DA... Needlessly so I think. And what happens to this whole idea once that Magos is dead? Does he pass his knowledge to the next Magos? And if so, what if that Magos doesn't want these possible traitors hanging around? I was using DA bitz when I made the marines for my chapter. It's surprising how inspiring the mixture of specific heraldry, a new paint scheme and a little imagination can be B) - The Redemptionists tend to be more level-headed, but are either unusually hopeful or mellow. Age and experience usually lessens the excessive emotion of a Redemptionist, but among greener members it can be quite annoying. Not very GrimDarky, hope has no place in the GrimDarkness I was trying to do that, but subtly. As time wore on, the Redemptionists would become bitter and cynical, when they were once these hopeful youths. I'll expand on that. - The First Company is known as the Forgiven or the Cursed. The majority of the First Company are Redemptionists, although there is usually a few squads who belong to the Cult of the Crusade. Do these names serve any purpose? I dunno, just seems to be named differently for differences sake. Maybe I'm not understanding though... Something I've heard once or twice is that any chapter's character should be strongly rooted in their beliefs and traditions. That's why I made it so complicated - I wanted the chapter to have a complex, deep character. - Regardless of belief, all Lords of Shadow not in the First Company have a black sword as their chapter symbol, which symbolises them, a weapon with the stain of their geneseed. The Redemptionists of the First Company bear white swords instead, as they have proven themselves loyal beyond a shadow of a doubt. Those of the First Company who follow the Cult wear dark red swords instead, to symbolise that despite being washed in blood they have still not embraced death and are stained. See, this is just like the names thing. Astartes are a warrior brotherhood, sworn to each in a bond stronger than family. I see minor ideological differences, maybe. But you are talking entirely new and radical philosophies from each other. Just doesn't seem very viable. Not to mention needlessly complex. See above. - All Chaplains come from the First Company, as only they have proven their loyalty, and so only they can be trusted not to spread corruption. So everyone not from the First Company is corrupt? That seems to be a dangerous attitude... Er, I'll go and reword that. - Librarians and Apothecaries are all Redemptionists. Librarians because they know of the Warp and what comes after death, Apothecaries because only Redemptionists have the motivation to become Apothecaries. Librarians are also already considered Forgiven, regardless of belief, simply because they and they alone have the ability to be touched by the Emperor as diviners and pierce the future by his will on Terra. Since they can be contacted by him, and not be killed by his power, they are clearly free of the Emperor's anger. Belief systems are never so cut and dried. There are always outliers, and the idea that ALL Librarians believe a certain way seems a bit odd. I dunno, all this politicking and rival factions just seems unnecessarily convoluted. Hmmmm. I'll... think on this. - Instead of typical squad designation, however, a tactical marine's lower right leg armour will be painted the designated squad colour, the colour depending on your position within the company. The most veteran tactical squad is usually designated gold, second most veteran silver, newest tactical squad white, with red, yellow, and brown being used for the other three tactical squads, also based on seniority. Assault and Devastator squads have Gold and Silver on their lower left leg instead of lower right legs, and Command squads have no markings at all. The Captain makes his own decision on heraldry. The 8th company is spread out amongst the battle companies, and all their marines have black lower right leg armour. The 9th Company has four additional colours, as they are completely assembled on one Forge World.The above system is mostly because that's how I decided to paint my Lords of Shadow force, I have no real fluff reason for it besides perhaps they are unworthy of using the Codex. And cause Gold is shiny :P My precious..... :P - Because of the fatalistic nature of those who follow the Cult of the Crusade, which make up the majority of the Lords of Shadow's marines, the chapter requires a higher rate of recruits into the chapter. As well as ensuring the Battle Companies have a large scout support, the 10th Company also protects Mokratee, the Forgeworld on the Eastern Fringe housing the Magos Bioligis, along with the 9th company. Wouldn't the Cult of the Crusade burn itself out? Their death seeking ideals would see them die off and leave the more pragmatic Redemptionists behind. Eventually all the Crusaders would be dead and the Redemptionists would be the majority, and soon enough, the only cult. Maybe that's just me though... The chapter believes they are cursed, though, and teach all the new recruits that upon entering the chapter they will be cursed too. Only the excessively hopeful believe in redemption ;) As always DAT, I pull no punches :P Another crazy idea that you formed into an IA haha. This one has a ton of promise and is one of the best Traitor Geneseed ideas I have seen yet. I definitely hope you haven't back burnered these guys yet though. I hope posting 3 months too late is better than never posting :) Only three months? This will awaken anew yet! Thanks, Shinzaren, it's always good to hear your input, and it's good to hear the kind words as well :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 Alright, I changed the history from bullet format to actual IA status and did some major expansion. Enjoy :huh: History Although the exact Founding of the Lords of Shadow is unknown, it is widely assumed that they belong to the 13nth Founding for their records and records of them start a few centuries after it. Due to the lack of information surrounding their Founding, the Lords of Shadow geneseed is also unknown. Both the adepts of Mars and the apothecaries of the Lords of Shadow have tested it for the markers of other well known geneseed. The earliest records indicate some kind of struggle, possibly due to unforeseen geneseed issues, as well as some failure recorded in the journal owned by the Chapter Master, Garth Xin. The journal went on to indicate that the losses were 'severe', so Garth 'swallowed his pride' and asked for the help of the Hunters of Truth chapter, an Ultramarine successor, speculated to be chosen because of their close proximity to the Lords of Shadow. Impressed by the humility of the Lords of Shadow, the Hunter's Chapter Master, Delgeon, began sending a supplementary force to each Lords of Shadow understrength companies. Further journal entries detail a strong rapport growing between the chapters. When the Lords of Shadow are full strength again, they return the favor and send ten squads, one from each company, each sent out to fight alongside various forces of the Hunters of Truth. Although squads are rotated out due to casualties and so that the marines can observe chapter tradition, there are always ten squads assisting the Hunters for an entire century. After the end of the century, the ten squads are recalled to the Lords of Shadow, but soon after those squads are asking to go back and assist the Hunters of Truth. The call goes out from the entire chapter, most of which have serve alongside the Hunters at some point. Garth Xin, who has now been coordinating his chapter alongside Delgeon for four centuries at this point, is surprised and pleased at these requests. Delgeon is also beset by a number of squads who also wish to continue serving alongside the Lords of Shadow, and after agreeing, it eventually becomes common practice for the chapters to send supplementary forces to each other. After being chapter master for almost six hundred year, Grath Xin is mortally wounded in battle, and out of respect he is interred in a dreadnought. He asks that half his dreadnought be painted the green of Hunters of Truth, to honour his long career and mostly successful career alongside Delgeon, who is killed seventy two years later. Both chapters are moved by this, and the Lords of Shadow unamiously agree to do the same for their own armour. The Lords of Shadow amor is never change again in their history. A few centuries after the 23rd Founding, a chapter, Burning Swords, established in the 22nd Founding rebels in it's entirety. The Lords of Shadow and the Hunters of Truth send accompanying forces, led by Captain Recaird of the Lords of Shadow and Captain Mrikre of the Hunters of Truth, respectively. They join the many other forces of the Imperium tasked with destroying the rebels, with Lord Inquisitor Amrak in overall command. The Burning Swords call on a few allies of their own, including a small force of Alpha Legion. It is widely suspected by the Inquisition the appearance of the Alpha Legion and the cause of the Burning Swords rebellion is linked, although there has been no evidence found to support this theory. In a single engagement most of these Alpha Legionaires are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos, and so gather the interest of the Inquisition attached to the campaign. The investigating Inquisitor studies the geneseed of the Alpha Legion, with the aid of a 'volunteered' Magos Bioligis from a nearby Forgeworld. The Magos, one Mrathron Fulkair, notices the Alpha Legion's geneseed is uncannily similar and could easily be a base for the Lords of Shadow geneseed, although the Lords of Shadow geneseed is considerably mutated from the common points. Mrathron sees oppurtunity in this, for while the geneseed is similar, he doubts that the adepts of Mars would allow the chance of traitorous geneseed being used. The adepts of Mars are not on the Eastern Fringe, however, and with the growing threat of Tyranids and the expanding empire of the Tau Mrathron decides to have the Lords of Shadow indebted to the him. A Lord of Shadow apothecary is called in, and told to examine the two geneseed. After making the same discovery as the Magos, he shakily informs Captain Recaird. Captain Recaird informs the Chapter Master, and after all the Lords of Shadow on the cmpaign have been given the order to recall the council of captains convenes. Magos Mrathron Fulkair and the captains of the Hunters of Truth are permitted to attend. After a few hours, the captains mutually agree to gather the Lords of Shadow and go on a final, redemption crusade. This is not what Mrathron intended, and the Hunters of Truth refuse to accept that the Lords of Shadow will martyr themselves. Their arguments become increasingly irrational and agitated, even stating that they will not believe that the geneseed matches. It is Mrikre who desperately convinces Captain Recaird that it is possible to prove your loyalty, and in return Recaird convinces the majority of the Lords of Shadow council. The Chapter, however, is not convinced, but he is willing to accept it as a possibility, and if he was wrong, all space marines die in battle regardless. One way or another, the Lords of Shadow would be redeemed. The Magos also states that if the wider Imperium learns of this they would certainly destoy the chapter. They would not even be given the chance to launch a crusade, and at this realisation it is unanimously agreed that silence must be kept. Mrathron would assist in blocking others from making the same discovery. To do this effectively, the Magos stated, he would need to do so from his laboratory in the Forgeworld, and he would, of course, need to be protected. The Ninth company, and later elements of the expanded 10th, were assigned to protect the Forgeworld, and Mrathron was given two codes. The first was a distress code of the Lords of Shadow, treated by the chapter as above Alpha Class priority. The second code was a warning signal - if the wider Imperium ever discovered the Lords of Shadow's secret, the Magos would know immediately through an extremely extensive series of automated searches and failsafe viruses that tracked all the information about the Lords of Shadow and who was using it. So the Lords of Shadow returned to their homeworld, and when the chapter was finally assembled, they were told of their geneseed. The effect was not immediate - for several seconds, the marines simply stared at the chapter master. Then one reached out to the nearby wall, all protocol forgotten as he leaned against the wall for support. Within seconds all discipline had broken as marines fell to their knees, turned to their sagging brothers for support and removed their helmets to wipe the tears from their eyes. A few, the closest to the chapter master, shouted that he was lieing, but the chapter master merely bowed his head. It was the Master of Sanctity and the Master of the Apothecarion who came together and confirmed the chapter master's words. Eventually, order was established once more, as eventually the battle brothers turned to their sergeants, who in turn looked to their captains. As they had been at the original council, the captains managed to slowly calm down their companies. The Chapter Master then told the chapter of their new deployments, their new duty - to pitch themselves in the worst combats, to fight the hardest wars, so that the warriors of the Emperor who weren't tainted, who didn't need redemption would not have to. Perhaps the only thing that kept the chapter alive for the next few decades was the Hunters of Truth. They never once faltered in aiding the Lords of Shadow, keeping to the old ways of the chapters fighting alongside each other, even though the Lords of Shadow asked many times that the Hunters of Truth wouldn't endanger themselves by fighting in such suicidal battles. The Hunters declined every one of those requests, stating just as often it was for these battlefields that the Adeptus Astartes were created. Eventually the Lords of Shadow moved out of their suicidal mindset, and began to recover. This process was aided by the fact that very few of the battle-brothers who had been there when the wider chapter was told, including the chapter master, were still alive, and under the new leadership of Chapter Master Recaird the Lords of Shadow began to thrive once more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Bada-bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Hm...how did the AdMEch not notice the gene-seed similarity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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