Lords of Shadow and Hunters of Truth

[Telveryon]

The apothecary notices the Alpha Legion's geneseed is uncannily similar and could easily be a base for the Lords of Shadow geneseed, although the Lords of Shadow geneseed is considerably mutated from the common points.

I would say that the Alpha Legion would be more mutated then the Lords'. While the Alpha Legion never retreated to the Eye of Terror, they're still chaos worshipers and thus far more prone to mutation then just about any loyalist chapter.

 

The Apothecary finds an excuse to destroy the captured geneseed, and volunteers to do it personally.

- In the process of entering the geneseed into the incenderarium, a Hunters of Truth apothecary visits the Lords of Shadow Apothecarium, and is shocked to find geneseed being turned to ashes. The Lords of Shadow Apothecary makes the fatal mistake of attempting to hide his actions, but on accusations of heresy and sabotage coming from his brother the Lords of Shadow apothecary breaks down and reveals his findings and his suspicisions of his own geneseed. The Hunters of Truth apothecary relays this to Captain Mrikre, who in turn tells Captain Recaird. Confusion ensues.

There are a few things that don't make sense. Firstly, if the Lords of Shadow apothecary already found and excuse to destroy the gene-seed, why would he try to hid his actions? Secondly, why would the Hunters of Truth Apothecary accuse the Lords' Apothecary of heresy and sabotage? He's destroying tainted gene-seed, it seems something quite logical to do. Thirdly, why would he break, wouldn't it be more noble of him to keep his mouth shut which would lead to his possible execution thus taking the secret of his chapter's shame to his grave?

 

- Lord Inquisitor Amrak, who has been informed of the geneseed of the Lords of Shadow and their self destructive intent, visits Captain Recaird personally. He has no wish for the Imperium to lose another chapter that could otherwise defend it, especially if it would not have been doubted if this incident had never occured. He eventually is forced to use Inquisitorial degree for the chapter not to go on a final crusade, and Captain Recaird hesitantly relays this to the Chapter Master.

Three quick things about this bit. How did the Amrak find out about the gene-seed? Even if he found out, why would he care to stop the chapter from doing his job for him. Thirdly, why would he decree something that is against his sworn duty given the fact that he doesn't authority to do so?

 

-The Lords of Shadow's geneseed slowly becomes known to the Imperium at large. They are attacked, hated, feared and changed by the startled response of the various oginisations that make up the Imperium, and as the years go by the Lords of Shadow become increasingly desperate to resolve their geneseed of debt. The chapter they parented in the 20th Founding, the Burning Scythes, is destroyed in it's entirety and many see this as a sign from the Emperor that the Lords of Shadow and any chapter they might create are cursed and will never be absolved. It is in this state the Lords of Shadow evolve through the years.

Now, having your chapter survive when an Inquisitor Lord knows their secret is a bit of a stretch, but it can be worked with. Having the Imperium at large know it means they're dead. The Imparium is not a tolerant place, the only word worse then Heretic is Traitor. While Amrak might be absurdly lenient, in the Imperium at large there would be hundreds if not thousands of Inquisitors howling for the Lords' blood, and they would get it since I can't see any chapter backing them up (Hell, quite a few of the loyalist chapters would be demanding their own share of the blood).

 

Now, before you think me as a fellow that has nothing but bad things to point out about your chapter, I'd like say that I really like the belief section!

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

While the Alpha Legion never retreated to the Eye of Terror, they're still chaos worshipers

 

Actually that's incredibly debatable. No one knows the true motives and goals of the legion, but just like any other loyalist chapter there are elements that have turned to the dark gods.

 

I am a fan of the Alpha Legion and do indeed cry out in pain at your assertion that they are simple chaos worshipers!

[Telveryon]

Actually that's incredibly debatable. No one knows the true motives and goals of the legion, but just like any other loyalist chapter there are elements that have turned to the dark gods.

 

I am a fan of the Alpha Legion and do indeed cry out in pain at your assertion that they are simple chaos worshipers!

I did not wish to imply that they are mere Chaos worshipers but rather that they have dabbled with it far more then any Loyalist chapter and thus are considerably more prone to mutation then the Loyalists.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Don't worry, Telveryon, I don't think you think only negative things about the Lords, even if every time I write something it is found flawed :)

 

Ah, Ydalir, you are watching this and have no comments of your own? I find this unusual, and am unsure of whether that is a good sign or not...

 

Oh, and is the Blazing Sons's armour bronze, except for their shoulder pads? I would paint them but I need that answered before I can :)

 

I'll try and work it out so that it lacks those flaws, Telveryon, although I would point out that the Lords of Shadow apothecary doesn't see it as you do - he sees it as destroying the possibility of his own geneseed being traitorous. When a Hunter of Truth comes along...

 

EDIT: Also, I had the idea of the Astartes chapters, the =][=, and some higher ups in the major orginisations knowing about the Lords of Shadow geneseed, but generally the people of the Imperium aren't given clearance to that kind of information,

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Oh, and is the Blazing Sons's armour bronze, except for their shoulder pads? I would paint them but I need that answered before I can :blink:

 

Yes it is. Looking forward to seeing them! :D

 

Don't worry, Telveryon, I don't think you think only negative things about the Lords, even if every time I write something it is found flawed

 

Every time any of us write anything, it will be flawed. It is about slowly filing down those imperfections until they fit with the whole piece to result in something unique for all of us to experience.

 

Don't worry so much about the problem and concentrate more on the solution.

 

Ah, Ydalir, you are watching this and have no comments of your own? I find this unusual, and am unsure of whether that is a good sign or not...

 

I keep my own council mostly, but I'll venture one piece of information for now.

 

You always seem to start with more ideas and details than you need to. When starting with anything, from a novel, short story or even sidebar for an IA, the broader the strokes you paint in to begin with the better.

 

You start with a whole bunch of details and try to mash them together into a whole, irregardless of whether those ideas may actually complement each other or not.

 

You know how many writers start a character or story?

 

A man is born, he lives, he dies.

 

Doesn't get much broader than that. From there you slowly and gradually develop those characters or story points down more and more.

 

Some people don't work like this, that's true, but it's a damn good way to start.

 

The broader the concepts you start with the easier it will be to really know your chapter by the time you get down to the nitty-gritty.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Oh, and is the Blazing Sons's armour bronze, except for their shoulder pads? I would paint them but I need that answered before I can ;)

 

Yes it is. Looking forward to seeing them! :P

 

Alrighty then, let's see what I can do with these... 'rubs hands together gleefully'

 

Every time any of us write anything, it will be flawed. It is about slowly filing down those imperfections until they fit with the whole piece to result in something unique for all of us to experience.

 

Don't worry so much about the problem and concentrate more on the solution.

 

 

I try to, Ydalir, I think that was the only time I commented on the negative feedback I'd received as opposed to accepting it and trying to fix it before. It was intended as a joking alleviation to me becoming negative.

 

I have learned a few things since I first came to the Liber ;)

 

I keep my own council mostly, but I'll venture one piece of information for now.

 

You always seem to start with more ideas and details than you need to. When starting with anything, from a novel, short story or even sidebar for an IA, the broader the strokes you paint in to begin with the better.

 

You start with a whole bunch of details and try to mash them together into a whole, irregardless of whether those ideas may actually complement each other or not.

 

You know how many writers start a character or story?

 

A man is born, he lives, he dies.

 

Doesn't get much broader than that. From there you slowly and gradually develop those characters or story points down more and more.

 

Some people don't work like this, that's true, but it's a damn good way to start.

 

The broader the concepts you start with the easier it will be to really know your chapter by the time you get down to the nitty-gritty.

Hmmmmm...

 

I actually do start out with core concepts in my head... Example being the Lords of Shadow - incredibly noble, but their geneseed is traitorous, and so they are despised.

 

This does tend to give way under the ideas for details - I had an idea for beliefs, and I expanded that in about 20 seconds, as you say - but I try to stick to those core concepts. I simply have too many ideas to explain said core concepts, and how they have happened, again as you say.

 

This isn't an excuse, though, I am trying to fix that by writing what I have at first is the core. None of what is currently on there is the actually content, just the idea and summary of what I'll write for each paragraph of the IA.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Oooooohhhhhh, the Liber's life for me...

 

Sorry for my lack of updates here, my fault. I plan to change that soon.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I tried to explain it from the Lord of Shadow's view better, in the one paragraph. If it's still a failure, I'll redo it completely, but if it makes more sense now I'll expand on the explanations in the first full draft.

 

I also wrote up an organisation section, it's in the first post as well.

 

Organisation

- The Lords of Shadow have a similar structure to the Codex.

- Instead of typical squad designation, however, a tactical marine's lower right leg armour will be painted the designated squad colour, the colour depending on your position within the company. The most veteran tactical squad is usually designated gold, second most veteran silver, newest tactical squad white, with red, yellow, and brown being used for the other three tactical squads, also based on seniority. Assault and Devastator squads have Gold and Silver on their lower left leg instead of lower right legs, and Command squads have no markings at all. The Captain makes his own decision on heraldry. The 8th company is spread out amongst the battle companies, and all their marines have black lower right leg armour. The 9th Company has four additional colours, as they are completely assembled on one Forge World.

The above system is mostly because that's how I decided to paint my Lords of Shadow force, I have no real fluff reason for it, besides perhaps they are unworthy of using the Codex.

- Because of the fatalistic nature of those who follow the Cult of the Crusade, which make up the majority of the Lords of Shadow's marines, the chapter requires a higher rate of recruits into the chapter. As well as ensuring the Battle Companies have a large scout support, the 10th Company also protects Mokratee, one of the major Forgeworlds on the Eastern Fringe, along with the 9th company.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

- Because of the fatalistic nature of those who follow the Cult of the Crusade, which make up the majority of the Lords of Shadow's marines, the chapter requires a higher rate of recruits into the chapter. As well as ensuring the Battle Companies have a large scout support, the 10th Company also protects Mokratee, one of the major Forgeworlds on the Eastern Fringe, along with the 9th company.

 

Why are they protecting a forgeworld? Is it in imminent danger? Do the cog-boys have this chapter in their pocket?

 

This is just one of those things that you seem to add to the IA that, at least on the surface, seems entirely a needlessly added bit of fluff that's wondered rather far from the core of the chapter. You're still missing out on those 'core' aspects as well in favour of bits and pieces like this.

 

Organisation

- The Lords of Shadow have a similar structure to the Codex.

 

You don't need that much more than this, a summarizing paragraph on variant company colours perhaps, word count permitting, but the rest of this has almost nothing to do with actual organization and more to do with you explaining to us exactly how you see them in your mind's eye. That's not a good thing.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

- Because of the fatalistic nature of those who follow the Cult of the Crusade, which make up the majority of the Lords of Shadow's marines, the chapter requires a higher rate of recruits into the chapter. As well as ensuring the Battle Companies have a large scout support, the 10th Company also protects Mokratee, one of the major Forgeworlds on the Eastern Fringe, along with the 9th company.

 

Why are they protecting a forgeworld? Is it in imminent danger? Do the cog-boys have this chapter in their pocket?

 

This is just one of those things that you seem to add to the IA that, at least on the surface, seems entirely a needlessly added bit of fluff that's wondered rather far from the core of the chapter. You're still missing out on those 'core' aspects as well in favour of bits and pieces like this.

 

Is it in imminent danger? Yes.

 

That's true organisation wise though, your second comment. Not sure how to translate their core concepts into their organisation, though, being noble doesn't tend to affect organisation much. Hmmmmm...

 

Organisation

- The Lords of Shadow have a similar structure to the Codex.

 

You don't need that much more than this, a summarizing paragraph on variant company colours perhaps, word count permitting, but the rest of this has almost nothing to do with actual organization and more to do with you explaining to us exactly how you see them in your mind's eye. That's not a good thing.

Er... It was explaining the chapter's official organisation. No, it's not part of the core of the chapter, but it is important to the IA.

 

The secondary comment on why I made the system, I don't plan to actually put in the IA, I was simply explaining why the system would be in the IA in the first place, as opposed to trying to make some fluff reason for it when there isn't one.

 

The Organisation section is already going to be the shortest, I'm trying to set it up in case I need some padding. If I don't, then I'll simply remove the unnecessary details.

 

 

 

Hmmmmm... The thought is still bugging me. How to translate the nobility and despised nature of the Lords of Shadow into organisation... Hmmmm...

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Hmmmmm... The thought is still bugging me. How to translate the nobility and despised nature of the Lords of Shadow into organisation... Hmmmm...

 

I don't quite understand how being noble and being disguised work in tandem...

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Hmmmmm... The thought is still bugging me. How to translate the nobility and despised nature of the Lords of Shadow into organisation... Hmmmm...

 

I don't quite understand how being noble and being disguised work in tandem...

I'm not sure what you mean by being disguised? I said being despised?

 

If it was a typo, well, just look at their geneseed, it'll tell you why they are despised...

 

I actually had an idea, thanks to Ydalir's question about the chapter being in the Forge's pocket - perhaps the Magos Bioligis discovered the whole geneseed issue and holds it over the Lords of Shadow's head?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Hmmmmm... The thought is still bugging me. How to translate the nobility and despised nature of the Lords of Shadow into organisation... Hmmmm...

 

I don't quite understand how being noble and being disguised work in tandem...

I'm not sure what you mean by being disguised? I said being despised?

 

If it was a typo, well, just look at their geneseed, it'll tell you why they are despised...

 

I actually had an idea, thanks to Ydalir's question about the chapter being in the Forge's pocket - perhaps the Magos Bioligis discovered the whole geneseed issue and holds it over the Lords of Shadow's head?

 

Huge "I'm not supposed to be on the 'net at work, my boss is about to turn up" typo :tu:

 

I mean that if you are despised there is generally a reason, a character flaw, whereas you say that they are noble.. You might, in certain strata of society be hated for being noble but I'm guessing you are not going there.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Hmmmmm... The thought is still bugging me. How to translate the nobility and despised nature of the Lords of Shadow into organisation... Hmmmm...

 

I don't quite understand how being noble and being disguised work in tandem...

I'm not sure what you mean by being disguised? I said being despised?

 

If it was a typo, well, just look at their geneseed, it'll tell you why they are despised...

 

I actually had an idea, thanks to Ydalir's question about the chapter being in the Forge's pocket - perhaps the Magos Bioligis discovered the whole geneseed issue and holds it over the Lords of Shadow's head?

 

Huge "I'm not supposed to be on the 'net at work, my boss is about to turn up" typo :teehee:

 

I mean that if you are despised there is generally a reason, a character flaw, whereas you say that they are noble.. You might, in certain strata of society be hated for being noble but I'm guessing you are not going there.

Nope, they are despised purely for having Alpha Legion geneseed.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Hmmmmm... The thought is still bugging me. How to translate the nobility and despised nature of the Lords of Shadow into organisation... Hmmmm...

 

I don't quite understand how being noble and being disguised work in tandem...

I'm not sure what you mean by being disguised? I said being despised?

 

If it was a typo, well, just look at their geneseed, it'll tell you why they are despised...

 

I actually had an idea, thanks to Ydalir's question about the chapter being in the Forge's pocket - perhaps the Magos Bioligis discovered the whole geneseed issue and holds it over the Lords of Shadow's head?

 

Huge "I'm not supposed to be on the 'net at work, my boss is about to turn up" typo :teehee:

 

I mean that if you are despised there is generally a reason, a character flaw, whereas you say that they are noble.. You might, in certain strata of society be hated for being noble but I'm guessing you are not going there.

Nope, they are despised purely for having Alpha Legion geneseed.

 

Doesn't make sense to my mind.. Distrusted, yes. Watched, yes. Despised? Doesn't ring true to me *shrug*

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Doesn't make sense to my mind.. Distrusted, yes. Watched, yes. Despised? Doesn't ring true to me *shrug*

Well... Telveryon and I are all inclined to disagree with you. I believe Telveryon believes they will be outright destroyed, while I have the opinion that they will be almost universally despised, with only the wisest in the Imperium looking past their geneseed to see the nobility within.

 

EDIT: Can't speak for everybody...

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Doesn't make sense to my mind.. Distrusted, yes. Watched, yes. Despised? Doesn't ring true to me *shrug*

Well... Telveryon and I are all inclined to disagree with you. I believe Telveryon believes they will be outright destroyed, while I have the opinion that they will be almost universally despised, with only the wisest in the Imperium looking past their geneseed to see the nobility within.

 

EDIT: Can't speak for everybody...

 

You can be inclined to disagree, 'tis only me voicing my opinion after all, but mentioning Telveryons belief of what would happen actually adds more weight to my argument ^_^

 

Like I said, it's all opinion.. It just stuck out to my mind but then I fully admit to trying to apply logic to 40k in this case.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Well... Telveryon and I are all inclined to disagree with you. I believe Telveryon believes they will be outright destroyed, while I have the opinion that they will be almost universally despised, with only the wisest in the Imperium looking past their geneseed to see the nobility within.

 

EDIT: Can't speak for everybody...

 

You can be inclined to disagree, 'tis only me voicing my opinion after all, but mentioning Telveryons belief of what would happen actually adds more weight to my argument :D

 

Like I said, it's all opinion.. It just stuck out to my mind but then I fully admit to trying to apply logic to 40k in this case.

I caught that last bit, and am very amused ;)

 

Although I don't see how Telveryon's thoughts backs your argument? I mean, we are arguing degrees, and his is simply the most extreme degree.

 

I say they are despised because they have traitor geneseed, generally most chapters despise the great betrayers, having their primarchs killed by betrayers and all. Not to mention the Emperor being mortally wounded.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Nope, they are despised purely for having Alpha Legion geneseed.

 

Honestly? Who else knows about this bar the chapter itself and perhaps an Inquisitor or two? Why in the world would they let anyone else know their secret given the extraordinary amount of harsh reaction the Imperium is well known for. I'm surprised a more puritan Inquisitor hasn't tried to destroy them already, or even one with a grudge against your own pet Inquisitor.

 

They are widely despised for their secret? Their secret that if it got out would almost certainly see them blasted into space dust quicker than you can even say Alpha Legion?

 

What?

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Nope, they are despised purely for having Alpha Legion geneseed.

 

Honestly? Who else knows about this bar the chapter itself and perhaps an Inquisitor or two? Why in the world would they let anyone else know their secret given the extraordinary amount of harsh reaction the Imperium is well known for. I'm surprised a more puritan Inquisitor hasn't tried to destroy them already, or even one with a grudge against your own pet Inquisitor.

 

They are widely despised for their secret? Their secret that if it got out would almost certainly see them blasted into space dust quicker than you can even say Alpha Legion?

 

What?

Oops, good point, I haven't yet set in stone whether or not their secret is out. I'm geussing you are supporting the Magos holding it over their heads?

 

Also... If the secret was known, they would be destroyed because they were despised, yes :D I would think that an Inquisitorial decree might protect them, which is why I had that in the first place, although certain chapters such as the Marines Malevolent and the Black Templars would undoubtably attack them anyways, which is why I had it mentioned they were attacked in the first write up.

[Telveryon]

I would think that an Inquisitorial decree might protect them, which is why I had that in the first place, although certain chapters such as the Marines Malevolent and the Black Templars would undoubtably attack them anyways, which is why I had it mentioned they were attacked in the first write up.

Might I point out that if the true source of the Lords of Shadow's gene-seed was knows, said Inquisitor that passed the decree would be branded as a Heretic and hunted along with the chapter.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

*Does Teal'c eyebrow raise*

 

Indeed.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I would think that an Inquisitorial decree might protect them, which is why I had that in the first place, although certain chapters such as the Marines Malevolent and the Black Templars would undoubtably attack them anyways, which is why I had it mentioned they were attacked in the first write up.

Might I point out that if the true source of the Lords of Shadow's gene-seed was knows, said Inquisitor that passed the decree would be branded as a Heretic and hunted along with the chapter.

Even if it was a Lord Inquisitor?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I would think that an Inquisitorial decree might protect them, which is why I had that in the first place, although certain chapters such as the Marines Malevolent and the Black Templars would undoubtably attack them anyways, which is why I had it mentioned they were attacked in the first write up.

Might I point out that if the true source of the Lords of Shadow's gene-seed was knows, said Inquisitor that passed the decree would be branded as a Heretic and hunted along with the chapter.

Even if it was a Lord Inquisitor?

 

A heretic is a heretic.

 

In fact the punishment might be all the swifter to someone who was in a greater position of authority.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Editted, first post updated and this is my latest write up.

 

 

- The Burning Swords call on a few allies of their own, including a small force of Alpha Legion. In an engagement, most of these Alpha Legionaires are killed, but they appear to have not been touched by Chaos, and so gather the interest of the Inquisition attached to the campaign. The investigating Inquisitor studies the geneseed of the Alpha Legion, with the aid of a 'volunteered' Magos Bioligis from a nearby Forgeworld. The Magos notices the Alpha Legion's geneseed is uncannily similar and could easily be a base for the Lords of Shadow geneseed, although the Lords of Shadow geneseed is considerably mutated from the common points. The Magos sees oppurtunity in this, for while similar he doubts that the adepts of MArs would allow traitorous geneseed to be used. The Lords of Shadow, however, would not have such doubts and could be manipulated into protecting the sacred knowledge of the Omnissiah.

- A Lord of Shadow apothecary is called in, and told to examine the two geneseed. After making the same discovery as the Magos, he shakily informs Captain Recaird. Captain Recaird informs the Chapter Master, and they mutually agree to launch a crusade to martyr themselves for redemption.

- This is not what the Magos intended. He convinces Captain Recaird that it is possible to prove your loyalty. Captain Recaird convinces the majority of the captains, but not the Chapter Master. However, the Chapter Master is willing to accept it as a possibility, and if he was wrong, all space marines die, and thus all Lord's of Shadow will eventually earn redemption regardless.

- The Magos also states that he is willing to keep their secret, since he is a firm believer in the Lords of Shadow's chance at redemption while alive. He would also block other's from making the same discovery, because if the information was released, the Lords of Shadow would surely be destroyed... and the Forgeworld would be needlessly lighter in it's defences.

To keep doing this, the Magos stated, he would need to have his (immovable) equipment at the Forgeworld, and of course to be protected.

- Thus the Ninth company, and later the additional recruits needed to support the chapter, were assigned to protect the Forgeworld.

 

EDIT: When setting up Quote tags, it helps to spell quote right :devil: