Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Well 'Bad' was a hit MJ song! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I am gonna dye my hairs black in tribute to our Primarch. G <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherHostower Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 My objection to James Swallow, is possibly... his editors. Book one of the BA books, he has bolters firing bullets, lead flying through the air, and a *spoiler* chaos marine pushing a bolt out of his forhead (y'know, those mini-rockets that bolters fire?), i won't even say something bad about the general plot which felt... done already. In book two, all of a sudden, bolters fired bolts, and I figured, hey, it was his first novel, he apparently didn't pay attention to the fluff enough, now he's fixed it. Faith and Fire was also a decent read... then I read book 3... and there's the lead bullets coming out of bolters again! The comments about Fabulous Billy I won't repeat, someone already said it pretty well, but then in Book 4, he has bolters correct again! I don't get it? How can you screw up the Marine iconic weapon every other novel? The only thing I can think of, is some editor at BL has no fething clue and 'touches up' his work, but isn't assigned to covering all of his books. So, either Mr Swallow has no idea how a bolter works (and he's been with BL long enough, SOMEONE should have cued him in) and one of the editors there has fixed it on 2 occassions, or Mr Swallow knows how a bolter works, and some editor at BL keeps making him look like an idiot by "fixing" his weapons. Here's to hoping that they don't frakk up the BA HH book (as, even as a Dark Angel, Sanguinius is probably my favorite primarch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 whats wrong with sanguinius having a spear, makes more sense on a winged primarch than a sword does. and the primarchs can change their appearences. also havent yet read that all ba have blond hair. which if it was true i would dislike in the way that all salamanders are supposed to be jet black. i dislike ti cause it would mean were all aryans, whch i think ba can do without. a primarch chaangiing his appearence, no problem. others potrayal of other chapters primarchs is always funny. of course it is. and sanguinius has a weird personality as seing the future will change your opinion... im hopeful. i see the problems in his earlier books, but hopeully hes learnt how the chapter works better by now. and i relly enjoyed flight of the einstein. wondering how the sanguard and azkellon will be covered, etc...(sanguinator?) the spear wassnt a bad idea, it was just written poorly and seemed to turn our primarch into a sorta space jesus/arch angel....basically to me it was that one step to far between cool cultural and mythlogical refrence and cheesy cram as much in rip off. edit: The thing about the blonde hair comes from the 3rd ed codex where it described the creation of a BA SM and how the process is much faster than the regular SM creation. the other thing is the quote about turning a scavenger into a tal proud blonde warrior of humanity giving them hope that they can overcome the Black rage. basically you're correct, the racial root of the Blood angel chapter IS the Aryan's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 That is quite a stretch in my opinion . G :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 basically you're correct, the racial root of the Blood angel chapter IS the Aryan's. Are they? Their names and the whole chapter theme point to more Latin-based ethnics, Italians or Spaniards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 According to the first BA codex (angels of death)... the folk of Baal were more like nomadic gypsies. They had stunted growth and often cancerous like skin because of the harsh radiation on the planet. They don't really resemble any of the large established European civilizations in that sense. I don't recall anything about Sanguinius being blond at all really... though Mephiston was always modeled as a blond. In all of the codex and non-BL fluff Sanguinius is always a total badarse. People, selectively remember the 'blood rage' and vampire-ish fluff starting in the 3rd edition... but it was really from the start. In the Angels of Death there are little stories of assault marines causing a by-standing guard unit to nearly puke at their 'nid like' slaughter... and Sanguinius is over-come with 'Blood Rage' and tears threw over a hundred mutants that threaten his tribe (the blood). THAT badarse Primarch from the codex/fluff - would never wear a tear drop tattoo on his face and cry for lives lost in combat. He wasn't some aloof weirdo that was also socially awkward - he was a leader of men, a total fricken monster, who was noble and fair until you got him mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 tbh having blonde hair hardly makes a person automaticly an Aryan :lol: theyre basicly pretty boy space vampires....with italian names no less :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 According to the first BA codex (angels of death)... the folk of Baal were more like nomadic gypsies. They had stunted growth and often cancerous like skin because of the harsh radiation on the planet. They don't really resemble any of the large established European civilizations in that sense. I don't recall anything about Sanguinius being blond at all really... though Mephiston was always modeled as a blond. In all of the codex and non-BL fluff Sanguinius is always a total badarse. People, selectively remember the 'blood rage' and vampire-ish fluff starting in the 3rd edition... but it was really from the start. In the Angels of Death there are little stories of assault marines causing a by-standing guard unit to nearly puke at their 'nid like' slaughter... and Sanguinius is over-come with 'Blood Rage' and tears threw over a hundred mutants that threaten his tribe (the blood). THAT badarse Primarch from the codex/fluff - would never wear a tear drop tattoo on his face and cry for lives lost in combat. He wasn't some aloof weirdo that was also socially awkward - he was a leader of men, a total fricken monster, who was noble and fair until you got him mad. so basicaly, if the fluff changes from the original, it's crap? They have definitely turned the primarchs from pure killing machines to people with personalities over the years... and what's to say that the primarch didn't kill 100 mutants that threatened his tribe, then mourned the loss of his fallen brothers (if there were any) He doesn't have to be heartless at the loss of his sons and brothers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 According to the first BA codex (angels of death)... the folk of Baal were more like nomadic gypsies. They had stunted growth and often cancerous like skin because of the harsh radiation on the planet. They don't really resemble any of the large established European civilizations in that sense. I don't recall anything about Sanguinius being blond at all really... though Mephiston was always modeled as a blond. In all of the codex and non-BL fluff Sanguinius is always a total badarse. People, selectively remember the 'blood rage' and vampire-ish fluff starting in the 3rd edition... but it was really from the start. In the Angels of Death there are little stories of assault marines causing a by-standing guard unit to nearly puke at their 'nid like' slaughter... and Sanguinius is over-come with 'Blood Rage' and tears threw over a hundred mutants that threaten his tribe (the blood). THAT badarse Primarch from the codex/fluff - would never wear a tear drop tattoo on his face and cry for lives lost in combat. He wasn't some aloof weirdo that was also socially awkward - he was a leader of men, a total fricken monster, who was noble and fair until you got him mad. so basicaly, if the fluff changes from the original, it's crap? They have definitely turned the primarchs from pure killing machines to people with personalities over the years... and what's to say that the primarch didn't kill 100 mutants that threatened his tribe, then mourned the loss of his fallen brothers (if there were any) He doesn't have to be heartless at the loss of his sons and brothers... Hmm interesting analysis... crap? ...uhh no. I was really making two points here.. one that, contrary to popular belief, it wasn't the 3rd edition that made BA blood-raging maniacs... it was the first codex, like it or not. Further calling some of Swallows complete disregards for fluff just an evolution over the years is really lame too. Secondly our primarch, regardless of how his personality matured/altered/whatever over the years ...was never this socially awkward, aloof weirdo who wore tattoos of lament. He was a leader and a total fricken badarse. Nobody said anything about being heartless... but further - any space marine, let alone a Primarch should be well familiar with death... in fact the death never stops for these people... so should he always be in mourning and acting weird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 According to the first BA codex (angels of death)... the folk of Baal were more like nomadic gypsies. They had stunted growth and often cancerous like skin because of the harsh radiation on the planet. They don't really resemble any of the large established European civilizations in that sense. I don't recall anything about Sanguinius being blond at all really... though Mephiston was always modeled as a blond. In all of the codex and non-BL fluff Sanguinius is always a total badarse. People, selectively remember the 'blood rage' and vampire-ish fluff starting in the 3rd edition... but it was really from the start. In the Angels of Death there are little stories of assault marines causing a by-standing guard unit to nearly puke at their 'nid like' slaughter... and Sanguinius is over-come with 'Blood Rage' and tears threw over a hundred mutants that threaten his tribe (the blood). THAT badarse Primarch from the codex/fluff - would never wear a tear drop tattoo on his face and cry for lives lost in combat. He wasn't some aloof weirdo that was also socially awkward - he was a leader of men, a total fricken monster, who was noble and fair until you got him mad. so basicaly, if the fluff changes from the original, it's crap? They have definitely turned the primarchs from pure killing machines to people with personalities over the years... and what's to say that the primarch didn't kill 100 mutants that threatened his tribe, then mourned the loss of his fallen brothers (if there were any) He doesn't have to be heartless at the loss of his sons and brothers... Hmm interesting analysis... crap? ...uhh no. I was really making two points here.. one that, contrary to popular belief, it wasn't the 3rd edition that made BA blood-raging maniacs... it was the first codex, like it or not. Further calling some of Swallows complete disregards for fluff just an evolution over the years is really lame too. Secondly our primarch, regardless of how his personality matured/altered/whatever over the years ...was never this socially awkward, aloof weirdo who wore tattoos of lament. He was a leader and a total fricken badarse. Nobody said anything about being heartless... but further - any space marine, let alone a Primarch should be well familiar with death... in fact the death never stops for these people... so should he always be in mourning and acting weird? yea crap, makes it easier then typing a lot of words that mean its crap. I'm not saying it's all roses, i dislike swallows first few BA books because of how simple he wrote them. and i know that they are/were maniacs before 3rd. the evolution i talk about is with the primarchs in general, thier previousl fluff doent' have a lot of thim in it, it's mostly how they kill this or that and possibly how they die. With the HH stuff (and the HH stuff very spacificaly) they are gaining a large amount of personality. Being familiar with death doesn't preclude mourning the dead (someone is going to have to tell me what book where has him with a tear tattoo or marking so i can reread that section to see why) Only hte people who write the fluff will tell you if they are acting "weird" In any event, I like how he's portrayed in the HH books, dont' care if he has blond hair black hair or is bald:) in any event we probably just won't agree on what's important:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 @ Chaplain Gunzhard The blood drops are the chapter's symbols. BA armor and weapons are decorated with blood drops. Should this also be removed? The bolter is a weapon and not stylish accessory. And I didn't find Sanguinius socialy awkward. Calm, reasonable, reserving his judgement. But not awkward and weird. If he is a leader then he obviously should be both fierce warrior and compassionate person. Total fricken badass in my opinion is Khârn. I doubt Sanguinius has anything in common with him. The way Sanguinius is described in the HH novels imho show him as a true 'angel of death', calm, grim, quiet, instilling both fear and awe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Well ...see now most of the material regarding Sanguinius was in the earlier (non-BL) books. The first codex had plenty, as did each subsequent codex, and the Index Astartes book from '02 had lots of Sanguinius stuff. There are actual histories and stories about him in these books. In the HH books he is mentioned occasionally and only appears in a few scenes - acting weird and aloof. If anything he lost personality. Horus has a fond affection for him, that is clear... but otherwise, at a minimum he is not acting like the great leader of men that his upbringing had instilled in him... he is a shy and brooding diva. Anybody got quotes from the books? ...is that ok to do here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I actualy own all that minus the angels of death codex:) and it's frpom angels of death to the HH books that i call the evolution of fluff:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I actualy own all that minus the angels of death codex:) and it's frpom angels of death to the HH books that i call the evolution of fluff:) Certainly I would agree - except in the case of the Blood Angels - and Sanguinius. At least until that new book arrives. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 IIRC the mourning part was in the first HH book. an blood angel company was slaughtered on the planet of the megarachnids and horus and co. contacted him about it. IIRC the black hair was something about charcoal in his hair as a custom from baal to show hes mourning. the teardrop tattoo im not sure i even renember beeing mentioned? :D mind you ive only read the first 2 books completly and that was a while ago so maybe my memort has been watered down abit ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 that would be funny if the guy was complaining about black hair and it's just charcol (i forget it's been a while since i read the first books, someone able to grab a copy and verify?) i think it's within reason to mourn the loss of a 100 of his sons:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 well im not sure about it. i thought the passage was weird and a friend of mine said he did some stuff to his hair (he thought it was charcoal) to show he was mourning... or something :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 and i had to go loan out my hh books:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Blood Angels are Italian. There are blond and black-haired Italians. I see Sanguinius as blond because 1) Horus Heresy Collected Visions, and 2) Corbulo is blond and Corbulo is supposed to look almost exactly like Sanguinius. That said, if Sanguinius is now black-haired I don't especially care. It's a bit frustrating because it doesn't fit with the reasons I just mentioned, but it's nothing to get upset about. Also, I will try not to flame. But if you think Sanguinius is "socially awkward" for mourning the deaths of his own men... you have a very different perception of the primarch than me. Heck, you have a very different perception of humanity than me. Mourning the deaths of your men, your sons, your brothers, is the normal and right thing to do. To not care is beyond socially awkward: it's socially retarded and downright monstrous. Daemonic, even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 "Blood Angels are Italian" there is no italy in 40k:) and to quote the book "His LONG BLACK hair was pressed down by the weight of the shawl of gold chain he wore across his head. The edges of it framed his solemn features. He had marked his cheeks with grey ash in mourning. An attendant stood by with ink pot and brush to paint the ritual tears of grief on his cheeks, but Primarch Sanguinius shook his head, making the chain shawl clink. I have real tears." so his hair (according to Abnett) is black, and he didn't have the ritual tears painted on, for he had real ones... oh and soon after they go to war for 6 months to kill every xenos on the plants.. the wimp.. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Also, I will try not to flame. But if you think Sanguinius is "socially awkward" for mourning the deaths of his own men... you have a very different perception of the primarch than me. Heck, you have a very different perception of humanity than me. Mourning the deaths of your men, your sons, your brothers, is the normal and right thing to do. To not care is beyond socially awkward: it's socially retarded and downright monstrous. Daemonic, even. Hah ok, now you are taking this way too far... ALL of the primarch lose good men. All them act like men, like leaders - but also like Space Marines. Horus never get's all weird and paints a wolf on his face when his men die - that is ridiculous. Death is the one constant for Space Marines - it never stops. They fight, and they die, that is what the Emperor made them to do. Further, throughout the HH books there is only very rare mention of the Blood Angels and Sanguinius - and in nearly every case Sanguinius is - at least - aloof and shy. In the first book he consults Horus a little and seems to be somewhat reasonable... but for the record, here is a quote from my favorite of the HH books: HIS LONG BLACK (it was actually all caps in the book) hair was pressed down by the weight of the shawl of gold chain he wore across his head. The edges of it framed his solemn features. He had marked his cheeks with grey ash in mourning. An attendant stood by with ink pot and brush to paint the ritual tears of grief on his cheeks, but Primarch Sanguinius shook his head, making the chain shawl clink. "I have real tears," he said. I'm sorry but whatever you think my view of humanity is ... no where else in all of 40k lore/history/fluff does a commander wear a shawl and cry for his dead men. Gimmi a break... EDIT: wow ninja'd on that quote from the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 It's a ritual funeral. Real armies have them. I'm sure the other armies in the Imperium have them, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I just disagree, he lost a company of men, does the ritual mornign of Baal Secondus, then presceeds to wipe the entire planet out:) I odn't think he starts bawling every time a guy dies, but i dont' see a problem with him being saddened over the loss of a company, in one battle... then agan i dont' think he has actual tears in that quote, thinkits more saying i don't need the makeup, i'm saddend by the loss enough. he is aloof, i dont' think shy ios the right word, it's not like he blushes and hides, just doen't see the need to talk to much, only when he needs to... cant' all blabber on and on like lorgar does:) (and i loved that book) i'm just hoping they don't turn the BA into a bunch of sheep that are easy to manipulate, i'd like then to be strong to the end. from the same book ther eis this quote" Sanguinius, of course. So perfect. So charismatic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 It's a ritual funeral. Real armies have them. I'm sure the other armies in the Imperium have them, too. Well yes they were mourning deaths, but it wasn't at a funeral. Which real armies paint their faces and wear 'shawls' while crying about the lives lost? Which other Imperium ones do it? Women do that... I'm sorry but nowhere else in any 40k fluff does another commander/leader/primarch do that sort of thing. You are trying to insult me because you don't like it but this has nothing to do with my view of humanity... and I didn't write Sanguinius wearing a shawl and mourning 'make-up' either. Heck even shedding tears for their lives is somewhat understandable... but to announce, "I have real tears"... by a Space Marine!? ...while wearing a shawl and face paint? ...really? I'm the only one that thinks that is wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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